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Author Topic: experiment is producing gas 9 hours after battery unplugged  (Read 6020 times)

Offline deltatechx

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I've just recently started electrolysis experiments for use in my car.  I'm currently experimenting with different electrodes and electrolytes, my most recent electrolyte experiment was due to my boredom and lack of available resources at my house -- I mixed a 3% solution of H2O2 with epsom salt (MgSO4 * 7 H20).  At first I only used the H2O2 and was getting a 0.6 amp draw from a 12 volt car battery using two stainless steel mesh drain covers, then I decided to add the epsom salt and got a 3.6 amp draw from said battery.  I got the normal swirling white cloud and ran it a few minutes with no problems or amperage drop.  Then I had to leave for work, so I disconnected the battery from my container and set it aside.  When I returned from work 9 hours later I was about to dump the electrolyte to continue my experimenting when I noticed that there were bubbles coming from the mesh and copper wire connected to the mesh.

My question: Can anyone tell me if this is HHO production or is it some other gas being produced? I would prefer not to attempt to ignite it due to the large volume of gas in the container and it's not enough production to pass it through a soapy bubbler.

I'm going to leave the container and it's contents alone to see how long this reaction continues.

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Offline pese

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Re: experiment is producing gas 9 hours after battery unplugged
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2008, 11:13:42 AM »
I've just recently started electrolysis experiments for use in my car.  I'm currently experimenting with different electrodes and electrolytes, my most recent electrolyte experiment was due to my boredom and lack of available resources at my house -- I mixed a 3% solution of H2O2 with epsom salt (MgSO4 * 7 H20).  At first I only used the H2O2 and was getting a 0.6 amp draw from a 12 volt car battery using two stainless steel mesh drain covers, then I decided to add the epsom salt and got a 3.6 amp draw from said battery.  I got the normal swirling white cloud and ran it a few minutes with no problems or amperage drop.  Then I had to leave for work, so I disconnected the battery from my container and set it aside.  When I returned from work 9 hours later I was about to dump the electrolyte to continue my experimenting when I noticed that there were bubbles coming from the mesh and copper wire connected to the mesh.

My question: Can anyone tell me if this is HHO production or is it some other gas being produced? I would prefer not to attempt to ignite it due to the large volume of gas in the container and it's not enough production to pass it through a soapy bubbler.

I'm going to leave the container and it's contents alone to see how long this reaction continues.
if you have disconnect..
have you possibly "closed both conecting wires that are connected to container ?
can you find any voltages (or flowing amps) it you testing
this (from charger disconnected wires?)

Possibly you find an solution" now..

Pese

Offline deltatechx

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Re: experiment is producing gas 9 hours after battery unplugged
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2008, 08:19:47 PM »
the wires are not connected and there is a small voltage  (about 0.013 volts) across the terminals.  Now, 20+ hours later, the solution is still bubbling at the copper wire and ss mesh and there is no sign of precipitates, the water is crystal clear.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: experiment is producing gas 9 hours after battery unplugged
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2008, 08:19:47 PM »
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Offline Mr Green

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Re: experiment is producing gas 9 hours after battery unplugged
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2008, 09:54:25 PM »
Hmmm...interesting

mixing Hydrogen Peroxide with Magnesium Sulfate and with Stainless Steel (and cooper ? i did understand correctly?)

the formula is too big for me to analise it.

H202 + MgSO4?7H2O + Fe, <0.08% C, 17.5-20% Cr, 8-11% Ni, <2% Mn, <1% Si, <0.045% P, <0.03% S

probably you have a chemical reaction betwin the substances and most likely you release O2 ...
a good chemist could answer to this question.
I got a question for you...did you notice any erosion to the metals ?
If not , you can take a quantity from your solution and put it in a clear container...and check for any gases released , if not , put a piece of stainless steel and then check again for bubbles .

you said about having small voltage across the terminals , that is usual for a stainless steel cell in a salted solution - it works like a battery.

Go Green !


Offline deltatechx

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Re: experiment is producing gas 9 hours after battery unplugged
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2008, 10:06:24 PM »
that's correct, I know copper is a real bad idea for electrolysis, but it's all i have at the moment. I do have some stainless steel 316L wire being shipped but it'll be a few days before I get it.

Looking at the mesh and wire closely I've noticed that most of the bubbles are coming from one of the copper wires (speaker wire) and the rest are coming from only one of the stainless steel mesh drain covers (not the one connected to the copper wire producing the bubbles) -- the two drain covers are stacked so it's kind of hard to tell where the bubbles are actually coming from but I believe only one of the covers is actually producing gas (the top one).

This is a very slow production, I placed a 1/4" vinyl tube into my bubbler (drinking glass with soapy water) and the water line inside the tube has only dropped about an 1/8" in the last 1 1/2 hours.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: experiment is producing gas 9 hours after battery unplugged
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2008, 10:06:24 PM »
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Offline Mr Green

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Re: experiment is producing gas 9 hours after battery unplugged
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2008, 10:24:09 PM »
i did edit my previous post

and

i got another opinion .... you may have some chloride in your electrolite (NaCl , MgCl12) ......Cl from potable water ....Chloride does corrode stainless steel..


good luck

Offline zerotensor

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Re: experiment is producing gas 9 hours after battery unplugged
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2008, 11:48:09 PM »
Yes all these rxns can happen but I think the main one to consider is this:

2 H2O2 -> 2 H2O + O2,

This happens spontaneously, and in the presence of metals & metallic ions in solution it will happen even faster.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: experiment is producing gas 9 hours after battery unplugged
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2008, 11:48:09 PM »
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Offline zerotensor

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Re: experiment is producing gas 9 hours after battery unplugged
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2008, 11:57:47 PM »
You could test the hypothesis by submerging a piece of copper / stainless in some pure 3% H2O2 solution and watching for evolution of bubbles.  You could even set up an array of test tubes to test all the various electrolyte, electrode, and peroxide combinations to pin down the source further.

Offline deltatechx

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Re: experiment is producing gas 9 hours after battery unplugged
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2008, 12:01:58 AM »
where would I get pure H2O2 ? I thought it was extremely volatile, or is it the distillation that's volatile?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: experiment is producing gas 9 hours after battery unplugged
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2008, 12:01:58 AM »
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Offline zerotensor

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Re: experiment is producing gas 9 hours after battery unplugged
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2008, 12:04:38 AM »
where would I get pure H2O2 ? I thought it was extremely volatile, or is it the distillation that's volatile?
I just edited that -- i meant solution.

btw, you can get 35% H2O2 at some health food stores.  "Oxy-tech" is one brand.

Offline deltatechx

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Re: experiment is producing gas 9 hours after battery unplugged
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2008, 12:07:28 AM »
cool, I'll have to look for that.  Is H2O2 good for electrolysis? what would happen if you mix KOH with it (I have some coming in the mail from ebay), would it cause a reaction or would I just get extra O2 when I perform electrolysis with it?

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Re: experiment is producing gas 9 hours after battery unplugged
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2008, 12:07:28 AM »
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Offline triffid

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Re: experiment is producing gas 9 hours after battery unplugged
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2008, 07:12:32 PM »
I think you have a current that's flowing even when you cut the battery off.This could be due to the dissimiar metals.I had a similar experiment which I found the metals in question were being consumed.So if your metals are being consumed most likely you have a unintentional battery. triffid

 

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