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Author Topic: Gravity based wind mill design  (Read 10633 times)

Onevoice

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Gravity based wind mill design
« on: May 16, 2008, 07:19:50 PM »
I've had this idea mulling around for a while and I thought I'd codify and post it out there to see what others think. There's lots of ideas out there for building unbalanced or imbalanced wheels. The idea is simple. Have weights shifted to the outside of the wheel on one side and to the inside on the other. The imbalance causes rotation and hence energy can be captured. The tricky part is how do you shift the weights in and out without sacrificing the energy gained.

The first idea that came to my mind was to use magnets to shift the weights in and out. This approach though comes with its own set of drawbacks. Since a magnetic field is symmetrical, The same amount of energy used to move into a field is required to move it back out again. My solution is to never move in or out. Keep the field strength as static as possible during the complete revolution. The above also holds true for magnet - magnet interactions. There are just too many variables and flux deltas to produce any kind of consistent field.

I started looking at creating a large roughly circular magnetic field as the stator but the number of magnets and variances in field strength made this look more and more like a poor solution. Having a ferric stator however, allows the interactions to be based on rotor magnet attractions to a fixed ferric runway. Each magnet is concerned only with its own field as it moves through the cycle.

The next requirement for an imbalanced wheel is for the weights to shift out on the downside and in on the upside of the wheel in order for gravity to act upon the wheel and cause rotation. I toyed with different mechanisms such as sliders or hollow tubes but these turned out to be impractical to install and tune and the movement would be minimal. I finally decided upon a hinged extention approach. Using a 6" hinged extension the mill could easily shift the weight 12" across the radius. The greater the degree radial of movement, the more gravity's energy will turn the wheel. A stator consisting of a continuous band of ferric material can be used as a flux trap for the rotor magnets. They can freely travel around the wheel but magnetic attraction prevents them from leaving the proximity of the band. The band can be bent outward on one side which will cause the hinged extentions to fold inward, following the band, and supply the imbalance.

The exact path of the band is critical to ensure the maximum amount of gravitational energy that can be absorbed. If a typical imbalance wheel concept can be broken into 4 quadrants. Top, bottom, left and right, it can be seen that the downward side quadrant is the source of maximum energy gain while the upward side quadrant is the source for the maximum energy loss. Of lesser notice are the top and bottom quadrants. Very little energy is gained or lost in these areas by a well designed wheel but they they can easily become sticking points that stop rotation. Both of these areas can be effectively mitigated using the hinged weight approach by simply not going there. The angle on the hinged weight does not need to extend beyond the 90 deg mark on the top or bottom and yet it can be fully open (0 deg) on the downside and fully closed (180 deg) on the upside. The stator can be shaped so that the weights are traveling nearly horizontal across the face of the wheel at these extensions.

Does this sound like a viable approach? I've already started working on a prototype. Am I wasting my time?


exxcomm0n

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Re: Gravity based wind mill design
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2008, 01:10:54 AM »
There is another few threads that are debating/teasing with the perpetual motion idea.

One of them has spurred me to dabble @ it a bit and give it a whirl.

Feasibility depends on scale. Build small (aka CHEAP).
There are a few things that scale does matter quite a bit as to whether they will work or not, but just a few and usually dependent on purpose.

Build it.

It is NEVER a waste of time to prove/disprove something with your own hands and eyes.

If it works, please remember the theme of the forum and open source it to your peers so they can replicate it, validate it, and disseminate it to a world the needs it desperately.

BTW........love the Jerry icon. Takes me back to days on tour. :D

Onevoice

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Re: Gravity based wind mill design
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2008, 06:05:24 PM »
Thankx for the inspirational words Exx,

Status update:

I'm using a 10" diameter wooden wheel from one of my previous failed experiments. Its mounted on an old hard drive spindle so that I can keep the face open. I've built a set of 4 wood lifter arms 2" long and mounted them 1 3/4" out from the hub. with brass hinges. On the outside, I have 4 1/2" neos affixed with scraps of PC case shunts. I also have a fair bit of Mu metal to shield the sides from each other while they travel through the inner part of the path.  For the stator, I have 1/8" steel rod that I'm bending into the pathway and affix to the outside framework using copper strips and brass screws. The first thing I am doing though is to build a sort of pendulum testbed so I can gauge the best distance between the stator and rotor. I'm having trouble though getting a clean curve to the steel. I'm getting lots of sticky points. Anyone have any good ideas for getting clean curves into thick steel wire?

Onevoice

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Re: Gravity based wind mill design
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2008, 05:43:01 PM »
Note to self: never use particle board for prototyping.

I was testing how strongly attracted my rotor levers are to my stator band and accidentally dropped my rig on the table. Good news is a 1/2" N42 neo 1/4 inch away from a 1/8 inch steel bar has enough pull to hold up horizontally with 12, 1 1/2" nuts n bolts hanging from it (more than 1lb weight). Bad news is I need to scrap all of the wooden pieces I've fabricated and use 1" by 2" pine ferring strips instead.

Onevoice

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Re: Gravity based mill design
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2008, 07:10:30 PM »
It never fails to surprise me how Karmic Koincidences happen. A couple of hardwood flooring samples dropped into my lap a few days ago. Even the cardboard backing is much stronger that the particle board I was struggling with. I'm also shortening the lifters on my wheel by a quarter inch to give a little more room for the stator brackets and to lessen a little the attraction strength between the rotor magnets and stator. I'm hoping that this will minimize the magnetic friction due to my own crudely bent stator ring. My goal is to recreate my phase 1 test (a magnetic pendulum) this weekend, and to fabricate the parts I'm going to need for phase 2.

Asking again: Does anyone have any suggestions for methods of bending a 1/8" steel dowel into smooth arcs?

Asking first time: Does anyone know a good source for thin "soft Iron" dowels. I need at least one piece 1/8" dia. and 3' long.

Asking first time here: Anyone here have a suggestion for an inexpensive (aka free) 3D software I can use to draw a model of this and post it up here?

Blacksmith

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Re: Gravity based wind mill design
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2008, 01:11:20 AM »
1/8" mild steel will bend without heating, use a form and wrap the rod around it.
You should be able to get 1/8" rod at a welding store.

Onevoice

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Re: Gravity based wind mill design
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2008, 04:16:20 PM »
Well, as usual, I'm behind on my efforts, but I did do some catch up work last night, after the kids - and the wife - went to sleep. I've finished cutting out a set of 4 new lifters using the high density cardboard backing from the flooring samples and attached the brass hinges to them. I am using 3/4 by 3/4 square blocks as stands to hold the lifters but I'm finding that the cardboard separates easily from the flooring when I cut the pieces that small so I'm reinforcing them with a little carpenters glue. I also cut out several smaller pieces of the wood without the cardboard to use as the stands for the stator. The hardwood surfaces on them should be able to hold the stator straps much better than particle board. I've glued 5 of the stands on one side of the wheel's frame.

Next on the to-do list:

1) Finish assembling the rotor lifters and attach 2 of them to the wheel.
2) Get a new (and probably thinner) metal dowel for the stator - see if I can get a softer iron material instead of steel - and work up some kind of jig to bend it evenly.
3) Take back the crappy metal shears and get a better one so I can finish the magnet holders.

Onevoice

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Re: Gravity based wind mill design
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2008, 04:32:28 PM »
PS. If anyone has been lurking and\or following my thread, I've been toying with using an odd number of lifters vs an even number. Even is easier to layout and is the simplest lever arrangement, but an odd number may lend some additional asymmetry. Whatcha think? ???

Onevoice

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Re: Gravity based wind mill design
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2008, 12:54:53 AM »
Status update:

I've finished rebuilding my wheel with the hardwood lifters and outer stays for the stator. On two of the lifters, I've built my magnet holders. I also have cut out several copper strips to hold the stator in place. I bought a 1/8 in rod from Lowe's and I'm using a paint can as a jig to bend the wire. Its close to the 8 1/2 in diameter circle that I need for phase 2 in my experiment. - I'm going to completely encircle the wheel with the wire and trim out the distances between the magnets and the wire to get a smooth turning wheel with the magnets trapped in proximity to the wire all around.

Onevoice

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Re: Gravity based wind mill design
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2008, 03:16:15 AM »
Big P.S: Thanks Blacksmith! I think it might work this time  :)

Onevoice

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Re: Gravity based wind mill design
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2008, 07:46:14 PM »
Status update:

All 4 lifter arms and magnet holders are now complete. I also completed phase 2 of my plan. I've built and mounted the round stator to see if I can get a smooth path. It ended up being a little bumpy in places. Especially where the ends of the ring connect to each other, but not so bumpy as to prevent gravity from pulling the magnet along the ring. Enough said, I'm now going to pull the stator ring outward from the wheel so that the top and bottom are smoothed out and the upward side arm is pulled into the axle.

Onevoice

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Re: Gravity based wind mill design
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2008, 09:05:34 PM »
Status update:

Well, I'll be the fist to admit when I mess something up. I don't like where the transition points are and where the rotor magnets will be lining up wit my setup. I need to move the lifter hinges out, shorten the arms and redo the stator path. I couldn't have seen it without putting something together wrong first. I want the arms to be at 90 deg on the top and bottom. I'm moving the hinges out so that they'll be even at the top with a line taken on a 45 deg angle. This will cost a lot of potential energy but with a net gain in balanced - imbalance between the 4 quadrants. In case any of your are actually following this, I'm still hoping to post pictures soon.

Blacksmith

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Re: Gravity based wind mill design
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2008, 09:09:48 PM »
Looking forward to seeing your pics.
Good luck.

Onevoice

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Re: Gravity based wind mill design
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2008, 08:08:12 AM »
Thanks Blacksmith!   :)

Status update:

Sorry I haven't updated in a while. Been busy with work, family and getting ready for 4th of July party. I cleaned up my office and splurged on a new webcam. My old US Robotics camera had a card that wasn't supported anymore. I've pretty much completely disassembled my gravity mill so I can move the hinge blocks and resize the lifter arms. This is my first time attaching pics so please bear with me. They might not be the best quality. Oh, by the way. I've acquired a new batch of magnets. I dismembered an old toy my kids grew out of. Megafort. It has connection balls that each have a 1/2" disk magnet (ceramic, I think. Cause I broke one.). I got 22 good ones and 1 that broke when it crashed into a 1/2" neo cube. I think I'm going to use some of them to do a build of a Steorn low energy actuator + some extra ideas of my own. I think I have a good way to incorporate it into a spiral motor design that just might make a runner. But first, I need to rebuild the gravity mill build. In the mean time, enjoy the pics. I'll try to post up more as I make progress. The first is my wheel. It's wood on a hard drive spindle mounted within a box framework so I have a good table surface for stator experiments. The second are some of my old lifter arms. The third is the hinge blocks that I use to attach the arms to the face of the wheel. Finally, the 4th shows my in-progress stator rings and the copper mounts I'm using to fix it to the frame.

Blacksmith

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Re: Gravity based wind mill design
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2008, 01:23:28 AM »
OneVoice
     Progress is being made!!! Good on you!
I have gotten careless a couple of times and my neos remind me who is in charge when they get close to each other, shattering to say the least.:)