You are right, overunity is the really the objective, In my car, I am working on my unit, for the last 3 days I am thinking about to not use the battery from the car but instead put my unit in the trunk with other battery and just charge this other battery when they are low, so the HHO will be generated with the second battery, I dont really care about overunity at this point, I just want to save more OIL as possible! BTW electricity is way cheaper then using the engine to recharge the battery back Also using this system is more powerfull because you dont need to worry about the main battery voltage, so your car will always work like is supposed to do, you can even add 2 batteries instead of one and produce more HHO with more cell and save more gaz.

I will put a solar panel to charge the batteries back while I work at the office! I am still looking at a lot of stuffs to make my unit more easy to update, so I could remove the unit under 30 secs.

Okay , first of all here I'm not discussing anything OU.  This is all conventional.


@shruggedatlas

I do not follow.  HHO does not exist naturally, like oil.

Yes Oil is natural, but gasoline is not.   Gasoline is the same as HHO, in the sense that both are 'refined' products which require additional input energy to produce.

So HHO must be created.  It costs more energy to make HHO than can be extracted from it.

Agreed. In thermodynamic terms, you always have losses.   You must 'pay' (for instance) 1000Joules of electrical energy to get 700Joules of HHO.

However, in economic terms, it makes perfect sense.   The 'cost' for HHO (in $/Joule) is far less than gasoline (in $/Joule), since the HHO is created by electrical energy (paid for in the kilowatt hour), rather than in gasoline energy (paid for by the gallon).

You are right, overunity is the really the objective, In my car, I am working on my unit, for the last 3 days I am thinking about to not use the battery from the car but instead put my unit in the trunk with other battery and just charge this other battery when they are low, so the HHO will be generated with the second battery, I dont really care about overunity at this point, I just want to save more OIL as possible! BTW electricity is way cheaper then using the engine to recharge the battery back Also using this system is more powerfull because you dont need to worry about the main battery voltage, so your car will always work like is supposed to do, you can even add 2 batteries instead of one and produce more HHO with more cell and save more gaz.

I will put a solar panel to charge the batteries back while I work at the office! I am still looking at a lot of stuffs to make my unit more easy to update, so I could remove the unit under 30 secs.

A good battery would be one that is used on solar systems. I got one from sears rated @ 80 amp hours. I can run my 400 watt security lights for 8 hours no problem then be recharged by my harbor freight solar panel the next day. The only problem is the better ones are rather large and very heavy.

I do not follow.  HHO does not exist naturally, like oil.  So HHO must be created.  It costs more energy to make HHO than can be extracted from it.  Therefore, there is no point making it.

With oil, we are not trying to make it.  We just use what is already there.  That is why it makes sense.

I think your missing the whole point. Crude oil straight out of the ground is refined Many times over with additives such as detergents to help keep the engine clean so its not totally natural. My self am not trying to achieve Over unity just with HHO alone. Its going to take multiple things to get overunity. What im trying to achieve is a 11HP lawn mower running off of HHO along side of larger capacity batteries and multiple electrical components. Just the mere fact that you can create a burnable fuel from something we drink, pee, sweat every day should have you on your toes going at this with us. Not saying you should quit because it does not produce more energy then required to make it.

Dont forget you can add multiple alternators if you have the skills to do so.so a 7-14 cell would be no problem. Even a little 60 HP VW engine would be enough to push 2-3 alternators plus you and the car down the road.

OK I see.  Well, if the economics works out, great.

> So what I want to know is, what makes "the people that know",
> so sure that water cannot be a fuel ?

If you ask the wrong question, you will get the wrong answer.

The correct question is:
for how long will I be able to use water as a fuel?

The answer is very simple and logical. 
You will be able to use water as fuel:

1- as long as you want, *** IF *** someone invents a method to disassociate water using 5 to 10 times less energy than Faraday *** AND *** this makes it into the market place.

or

2- until no later than 2020-2025, if you and your family have not yet died of starvation.
Contrary to popular layman's belief, the oil producers will turn off their pumps when the joules necessary to pump it, transport it, refine it, distribute it are more than what is obtained by burning it.  This is purely a mathematical equation and the oil producers are already well aware when they need to stop pumping.  There are no dollars and cents involved in this equation, only joules.  All of the energy-easy obtainable oil has already been pumped and burned, from now on energy costs for each barrel will rise.  Saudia Arabia can only keep production up by pumping immense quantities of sea water into their fields, and today every barrel that reaches the surface contains 65% sea water and rising.  You can imagine that this will not continue for much longer.  Globally all oil pumps will have been turned off by roughly 2020-2025 as the joules on both sides of the equation become equal.  There will still be lots and lots of oil in the ground, but it is the energy equation that commands.  Get it into your head that economics and money do not determine when the oil pumps must be turned off.

With no hydrocarbons, there will be no vehicles running on water, period.  What little renewable energy is available will certainly not be wasted on disassociating water.  The HHO nuts will finally understand energy in versus energy out, as they starve to death while watching a tractor standing still in the fields.

The sh!t is going to hit the fan LONG before 2020-2025, so now you know why you all have the feeling that things are getting worse, but the average person still does not realize how catastrophic things really are.

Nature will easily solve the problem of no replacement for hydrocarbon energy by starving 8 billion people to death, bringing Earth back to equilibrium.  With the exception of Cuba, most soils have been poisoned
with fertilizers and pesticides so Nature will have it easy. 

Droughts are becoming common because the planet is heating up and because so many trees are being cut down and sickly from hydrocarbon pollution.  An average tree evaporates 13000 liters each day into the atmosphere.  At the rate mankind is destroying trees, don't be surprised if rain and water become scarce.  Spending a trillion dollars on a war instead of using it to plant a billion trees is insane. 

Stupidity is very expensive, and now the bill is being brought to the table.

To avert disaster, a totally renewable energy economy will have to be completely introduced into the infrastructure and up and running *** BEFORE *** Hubbert's peak.  Unfortunately, this peak has already happened, probably 2005-2007.  As Napoleon Bonaparte said in 1793 "The great majority of men attend to what is necessary only when they feel a need for it - precisely the time when it is too late."

People who understand this do not post much because they are too busy trying to find a solution.  I suggest that everyone try to use their time as productively as possible instead of arguing and trying to win a pissing contest.  Unless you are an elder, when you shave in the morning you are looking at someone that has a high probability of starving long before the next decade is finished.  As of May 2008 there is no solution, so get your ass moving, either alone or in collaboration with others; there is no time to waste.  Tell everyone you know that you most immediately important thing to do is conserve energy and potable water.  If everyone would drastically reduce their consumption it would bring more time until the crunch arrives or a solution is found.

or

3- an electrical OU device is found, so that overly energy-expensive electrolysis can be tolerated during a transition period to electric motors.

Earl

"Facts are stubborn things." --John Adams