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Author Topic: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device  (Read 272102 times)

Offline a.king21

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #345 on: October 20, 2013, 08:27:01 AM »
Mags: I had this discussion with Verpies long ago. I finally convinced him that the Tesla earthquake machine was not just overunity but massively  over unity. In order to sway a building 10 stories high by 6 inches continuously would require an unbelievable and formidable amount of energy. Let's say Tesla put 5 watts in to his tapper.
Just one magnet attached to the top of the building with a wooden scaffolding pick up coil would generate more that 5 watts and would have no effect on the swaying at all. Yes, the trick is to translate the obvious mechanical deal into electronics. But at least we have a concrete example. Anyhow the law of entropy contradicts the law of conservation of energy in my opinion.
It was this Tesla fact alone that convinced me to research ou - because ou is obviously there big time.
Anyhow I replicated Benitez and am still working on it because it is closely related to this thread.
I agree with Farmhand that batteries do weird things and we have to be really careful.
But at least the earthquake machine gives us food for thought. There just has to be an electric equivalent.


Offline MileHigh

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #346 on: October 20, 2013, 08:52:33 AM »
Quote
Reporter A.L. Benson wrote about this device in late 1911 or early 1912 for the Hearst tabloid The World Today. After fastening the resonator ("no larger than an alarm clock") to a steel bar (or "link") two feet long and two inches thick: He set the vibrator in "tune" with the link. For a long time nothing happened-; vibrations of machine and link did not seem to coincide, but at last they did and the great steel began to tremble, increased its trembling until it dilated and contracted like a beating heart; and finally broke. Sledge hammers could not have done it; crowbars could not have done it, but a fusillade of taps, no one of which would have harmed a baby, did it. Tesla was pleased. But not pleased enough it seems: He put his little vibrator in his coat-pocket and went out to hunt a half-erected steel building. Down in the Wall Street district, he found one; -ten stories of steel framework without a brick or a stone laid around it. He clamped the vibrator to one of the beams, and fussed with the adjustment until he got it .  Tesla said finally the structure began to creak and weave and the steel-workers came to the ground panic-stricken, believing that there had been an earthquake.

You have to take this story with a grain of salt.  The Hearst newspapers were notorious for "manufacturing" news in that era.  They have a term for it, "Yellow Journalism."  It was all about stirring up a frenzy in the public to sell newspapers.

The story also makes no sense.  How can soldiers marching in step cause a bridge to collapse?  The answer is that although they are setting of a harmonic vibration in the bridge, the key point is that for each step they inject more energy than the wobbling bridge can burn off, and hence the amplitude of the oscillation increases for each step.  When you put a small mechanical oscillator on a steel beam that is oscillating at the resonance frequency, the metal superstructure of the building burns off the energy.  So the resonant vibrations never have a chance to increase in amplitude.  It's just a nonsensical story.  It's the Yellow Journalism version of the opera singer shattering the wine glass (same principle involved.)

Can someone share a link with your best test results?

Offline Magluvin

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #347 on: October 20, 2013, 08:58:01 AM »
Mags: I had this discussion with Verpies long ago. I finally convinced him that the Tesla earthquake machine was not just overunity but massively  over unity. In order to sway a building 10 stories high by 6 inches continuously would require an unbelievable and formidable amount of energy. Let's say Tesla put 5 watts in to his tapper.
Just one magnet attached to the top of the building with a wooden scaffolding pick up coil would generate more that 5 watts and would have no effect on the swaying at all. Yes, the trick is to translate the obvious mechanical deal into electronics. But at least we have a concrete example. Anyhow the law of entropy contradicts the law of conservation of energy in my opinion.
It was this Tesla fact alone that convinced me to research ou - because ou is obviously there big time.
Anyhow I replicated Benitez and am still working on it because it is closely related to this thread.
I agree with Farmhand that batteries do weird things and we have to be really careful.
But at least the earthquake machine gives us food for thought. There just has to be an electric equivalent.

I had thought on making a half mechanical, half electronic to replace the tapper. I decided on a pendulum, but one with a flat metal spring in place of the pivot and just gravity. It would need a solid, heavy base and it can be mounted with the pivot point at the bottom in the base, like the building, or hung like a pen. I lean toward pivot  at the bottom. Also saves construction of a solid frame to pivot from above. ::) ;D

Then put a magnet on the pen, low, close to the base and a coil powered by a circuit to ping it. Then have magnets at the tip of the pen to induce coils to charge the ping circuit. The reason I would like to go the mechanical route is to just see if it could be looped, just as we imagine in Teslas demonstration. It would be interesting to see how much constant resistance or damping at the top of the building that it would take to prevent it from oscillating.  It may be intuitive to see where and how on the pen that the output should be extracted, which could give better insight on modeling the electronic version looped. It may be better to not extract from the tip. Maybe half way down is better. Maybe not when we consider the tiny input and where it is applied. ;) But it shouldnt be left out of the testing.

My Grandfather told me many times about his dad that had 2 motors connected at the shaft and was selfrunning back in the 1910s. He was threatened back then about it by gov and big oil. ;) It was 60 miles out of Pittsburgh where Tesla was working with Westinghouse. Great Grandad had dealings with Westinghouse also for his improvements on the airbrake system, a valve that allowed continuous use of the brakes, as before that they were not continuous use. So I got my influence early. Started with gravity devices in 7th grade. Ive been playing on and off ever since. Graduating into other forms along the way.  Ive settled toward solid state as a main goal, but still ponder motors, gens and mechanical and combinations there of.

Mags

Offline Farmhand

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #348 on: October 20, 2013, 10:07:37 AM »
But don't forget that the building has an enormous amount of stored energy in it, by all the mass so high up. Much energy is expended to get the building high mass up there.
With Tesla's mechanical "tapper" the real high energy output would come when the building collapsed.  ;)

Any swaying in the top structure would be damped by the generation of electricity if ie. coils and magnets were used as a kind of linear generator and the resonant vibration of the structure if the structure was infinitely pliable (meaning it could sway all it wanted without braking and collapsing) then the oscillator "tapper" would not get the great mass of the building to oscillate past an equilibrium point due to loading and damping, lowering of the quality of the building as a "wobbling oscillator" for want of a better description.

I also agree with MileHigh, the story is probably overstated or exaggerated somewhat, as is the way of mere men.

I have no doubt a mechanical oscillator can in fact add the power of all of it's tiny input motions if the input "pulses" are in tune with the resonant frequency of the structure, and destroy it. In some situations. with others the requirements would be "out of range" of abilities.

It's nothing more than an accumulation of energy through resonance.

Any clams of a generator at the top would be OU should be proved before being taken as fact.

In the "unreal" situation that the building had no Mass of was completely inflexible not much would happen.

Here I admit to MileHigh that infinite's are in fact very useful for contemplation. 

..

Oh and convincing a single person means nothing more than you maybe convinced him, he could grown tired of it and just agreed to be done with the inconvenience of the exchange. Regardless convincing one particular person is not proof of anything much. Experiment could show the truth.

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Offline Farmhand

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #349 on: October 20, 2013, 10:33:11 AM »
I actually put together a three battery setup with a small motor some time ago which showed efficient looping.

Here is the video. Copy this over to EF David. This was only one of many experiments, It's a self regulating loop, based on potentials.
(Watch what happens when I load the motor with my fingers) (also note the power inputs when the coil discharges are reclaimed and when the transformer is used.)
(the switching circuit near the motor is a distraction, it does nothing). I say "there is some power drain" but note the final voltages of the batteries and if they are rising or falling after switching off certain things. There is no claim of over unity or extra energy in the video. Near the end I have a "dig" at the Muller dynamo crew.

Notice at the very end I disconnect the coil recovery charge wire to the series batteries and the input power to the transformer reduced, so collecting the coil discharges increased input in that setup. The transformer is single phase DC switched. Go figure.  ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YHlA0BNl7M

This setup was put together way back before I knew much at all.

Cheers

P.S. On this particular type of setup I call a "potential switch" or "switch" or potential shifting loop circuit, I have put in a lot of thought and experiment.
It is quite interesting to me, however all my experiments pointed to increased battery capacity due to "unlocked energy in the batteries due to desulfation or battery rejuvenation. But that is not to say I am correct totally or even partially. Just what I think.

And I'm, not trying to say it useless or no point to experimenting with it. I'm just saying a great many things are at play. Not easy to say it cannot be unloced potential due to battery desulfation and rejuvenation.

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Offline Hoppy

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #350 on: October 20, 2013, 12:28:18 PM »
Hoppy,


The link to the schematic we are using is here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/10610-3-battery-generating-system-78.html#post235538
And it is post 2335 on that page.


Be advised that things may change drastically very shortly. We have learned that reversing the magnetic polarity on a battery SEEMS to turn it into a negative resistor, and it self charges. If you keep a load on it to prevent it from charging, you can continue to pull the flux out of the ambient environment. FOr how long, we don't know yet. So we are focusing on two things...finding a consistent way to flip the magnetic polarity on a battery, and seeing how long this negative resistor will last. Way may only need ONE battery.


Dave

Dave,

Thanks for link to your current experimental battery setup.

I have experimented along the 'reverse polarity' lines and have managed to reverse the polarity of SLA batteries whilst they are loaded and being reverse charged from an SG or Tesla coil setup. I can get them to charge for a while whilst reading reverse polarity but this is only short term, as they always flip back at some point and after a couple or so reversals fail to do so. I'm not sure that it is a genuine charge and may more likely be a desulfation effect. The best candidates I have found are from UPS battery strips that have been replaced under maintenance. These typically contain 8 x 5A/hr 12V AGM SLA's, of which at least one of these has shorted cells. The rest can be quite serviceable with a little re-conditioning.  :) I have found that the 'bad' batteries are the best candidates for polarity reversal.  I hope you can find a way of using this reverse polarity battery vagary.

PS: The rudeness in post 2970 on your thread over at the Energetic Forum is the prime reason I dislike that forum as this type of post is allowed to persist on the forum without moderation.

Offline a.king21

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #351 on: October 20, 2013, 03:10:05 PM »
One more time:  Hidden in PLAIN SIGHT:

Offline a.king21

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #352 on: October 20, 2013, 03:56:01 PM »
Hidden in PLAIN SIGHT:
Tesla's OWN WORDS:

Offline a.king21

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #353 on: October 20, 2013, 04:27:24 PM »
Another version of Tesla;s overunity earthquake machine:
In Tesla's own words:

Offline MileHigh

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #354 on: October 20, 2013, 05:49:23 PM »
Look at the quote, "It would only be necessary to step up the vibrations of the machine."

Tesla is just speaking in common sense terms.  Yes you can bring down a building by exiting it at it's resonant frequency.  But you have to put energy in at a rate above some power threshold to bring the building down.  It's not over unity, you are reading something into the text that is not there.  You need to filter out some of the outlandish claims in the articles and decipher the truth, just like you said.  The truth is right there in the articles.

Think of the wine glass again.  If you can sing the resonant note loud enough, the wine glass shatters.  If you are not loud enough, the wine glass will not shatter.

For any resonant system there are the losses in energy when it resonates and there is a breaking point.  You have to pump power in at a sufficient rate to overcome the losses and reach the breaking point.  It could be a wine glass or a building.  There is no over unity here. The power you pump in becomes heat and mechanical vibration.  The mechanical vibration can absorb and accumulate the energy you pump into the system.

There are always two complimentary components that store energy in a resonant system.  What are they for the wine glass?  What are they for the building?  When you explore these questions you can demystify resonance.

You can look at the two components from a bird's eye view and it looks like a spinning vector.  Think of an arrow spinning around on an axis.  They call it a phasor diagram.  An entire resonant system can be described by imagining a phasor rotating at a certain angular velocity.  The "shadow" that the rotating vector makes in the x and y directions describes two sine waves 90 degrees out of phase.  The correspond to the two complimentary components that store energy in a resonant system.

I found a graphic to show that.

MileHigh

Offline MileHigh

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #355 on: October 20, 2013, 06:14:10 PM »
There are two attached graphic images that help illustrate the phasor concept for a resonant system.

You see the graphic for a voltage and current sine waves that are 90 degrees out of phase.  So those could be the two parameters for a resonant LC oscillator.

In the other graphic you can see how the sine wave is the y-axis "shadow" of the rotating phasor.  By the same token the x-axis "shadow" of the rotating phasor is another sine wave 90 degrees out of phase with the  y-axis sine wave.  So you can see how imagining a rotating vector can describe a resonant system.

The length of the vector represents how much energy is in the resonant system.  The rotational speed of the vector is the resonant frequency.

So, in any resonant system, if there are zero losses, then the phasor just spins and remains steady state.  In the real world there are losses, so as the phasor spins it decreases in length, tracing out a smaller and smaller circle.

When you pump energy into the resonant system, the phasor gets longer in length.  That is always being counteracted by the losses that make the phasor shorter in length.

The only way for the phasor to get longer in length is for you to keep pumping energy in to overcome the losses.  What does not happen is the phasor spontaneously getting longer in length over time.

MileHigh

Offline Hoppy

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #356 on: October 20, 2013, 08:32:11 PM »
There are two attached graphic images that help illustrate the phasor concept for a resonant system.

You see the graphic for a voltage and current sine waves that are 90 degrees out of phase.  So those could be the two parameters for a resonant LC oscillator.

In the other graphic you can see how the sine wave is the y-axis "shadow" of the rotating phasor.  By the same token the x-axis "shadow" of the rotating phasor is another sine wave 90 degrees out of phase with the  y-axis sine wave.  So you can see how imagining a rotating vector can describe a resonant system.

The length of the vector represents how much energy is in the resonant system.  The rotational speed of the vector is the resonant frequency.

So, in any resonant system, if there are zero losses, then the phasor just spins and remains steady state.  In the real world there are losses, so as the phasor spins it decreases in length, tracing out a smaller and smaller circle.

When you pump energy into the resonant system, the phasor gets longer in length.  That is always being counteracted by the losses that make the phasor shorter in length.

The only way for the phasor to get longer in length is for you to keep pumping energy in to overcome the losses.  What does not happen is the phasor spontaneously getting longer in length over time.

MileHigh

Very well explained and this description and diagrams show how resonance alone cannot be responsible for a device self-running assuming this is even possible.

Offline Farmhand

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #357 on: October 21, 2013, 05:49:23 AM »
Hidden in PLAIN SIGHT:
Tesla's OWN WORDS:

A.King this is all off topic. But !

I would ask would you please elaborate what your understanding is of the meaning of the last underlined section of the snippet you attached ?

I am fairly sure I know the exact effect he refers to and can locate the description and full explanation from another source.

But I'll wait to see what exactly you are saying you think it actually means in more detail.

You link this stuff and things are implied but you are not saying exactly what your understanding of the text is. I think it pertinent to explain what you think any highlighted sections you present mean as you see it. I know when I link stuff like that I at least try to explain what I think it means. As a point of reference for mutual understanding it's vital in my opinion.

Cheers

P.S. What exactly is it that you are saying is "Hidden in plain sight" ? Please explain.

..

Offline SeaMonkey

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #358 on: October 21, 2013, 06:29:20 AM »
Quote from: MileHigh
Yes you can bring down a building by ex[c]iting it at it's resonant frequency.

That may have been possible at the turn of the
century but modern buildings are constructed
with extensive damping to eliminate any possible
destructive resonances.

Bridges too.  Especially very long suspension bridges.

By the way:  MileHigh was beat(en) by Ruslan the Siberian
Rocky.  Tenth round TKO.  It was a great fight.

Quote from: Hoppy
PS: The rudeness in post 2970 on your thread over at the Energetic Forum is the prime reason I dislike that forum as this type of post is allowed to persist on the forum without moderation.

Well said Hoppy!  In fact, it is possible that the
"co-founder/moderator" there encourages such
immature communication.

Offline Farmhand

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #359 on: October 21, 2013, 06:30:21 AM »
I will need time to locate the actual explanation from Tesla, my reason is I am ill and have a bit of a memory blank but I know it's in one of four documents that he speaks his own words in and explains it well.

Anyway for the time being I have made a sketch to show what I think he is getting at.  ;)

With a standing wave and resonance the potential available for a receiver increases with the distance towards the 1/4 WL.
But with a radiating transmitter the available power for a receiver drops with distance always.

Basically what you and many others have done is point to a section of words from Tesla's writings and claim it says he is getting Over Unity.

Not only is it a misunderstanding, but when it turns out to be shown to be not true or even possible it gives ammunition for people to say Tesla was mad and made wild claims, when in reality he did not even make the claims. In my opinion it's Anti Tesla to do things like that and I for one will speak against it. Too many people putting words into Tesla's mouth that he did not say. That's what I think.

..

To explain it further,
At point "O" not far from the Tesla transmitter there is only a little potential to tap.
At point "A" there is more.
At point "B" even more.
And if tuned spot on at the ground plate of the receiver is the maximum available potential to tap.

Current is relevant to potential (voltage) over resistance,
and power is voltage x current.

Energy transferred is a different thing entirely but is limited by the power.

P.S.


Try this below. Thought experiment.

Now take a Hairpin circuit and turn it on it's side tie one side to ground and analyze that.  ;D

EDIT: Umm also make the hairpin about 30 meters long in your mind,..... then make it as long as is the diameter of the planet.




..