OK Guys, here is the test I am going to run. If this is not adequate, speak now or forever hold your peace because I am not going to spend all my time jumping through hoops for people who won't even take the time to build this and see for themselves.


!. Measure the specific gravity of every cell in every battery in the setup
2. Measure the voltages on all the batteries with my scope
3. Measure the output of the inverter through a kilowatt meter to a known load (from 17-30 watts depending on what I need to balance my motor running my generator)
4. Measure the output of the generator through a full wave bridge and a voltage regulator to some 12 volt lights in terms of amps and voltage produced over time
5. Measure the specific gravity of all cells in all batteries at the end of the run and the voltages of all batteries as well.


It is my contention that 3 and 4 above are all gravy as long as the specific gravity in the primaries has remained level or increased and the specific gravity in all other batteries has remained level or increased. Does that about do it? Please let me know before I start this. Probably won't start until tomorrow morning as I have a couple things till to do before I am ready to run. And I will only be doing a 10 hour run as my wife objects to the noise of the motor running right under us.
Next week, however, I plan on moving this setup out to my pool room, which is a converted garage separate from the house, and letting it run for a few days just to see what happens. UPDATE: Will probably be a little later than that, since I didn't get everything done I needed to do today. Could not find my tap and die set, which necessitated a run to the auto parts store I had not anticipated and I lost hours I needed. But if all goes well in the morning I ail still fire it up SOMETIME tomorrow. If not, then Friday. I will be pout of town for a four day weekend, so I am really shooting for tomorrow sometime.


Dave

David,

No need to rush this. You need to decide on how to set this up for the 3BGS and how you will interpret the results.  There are many variables, so it is difficult to set up a control group to compare results against and to be honest after much thought, I don't think that there is a practical way of showing beyond any reasonable doubt that the 3BGS does or does not gain 'free' energy from an external source. However, by carefully recording start and finish of the three battery SG levels, it should be possible to determine how much capacity has been lost from the 'good' batteries and gained by the 'bad' battery over the course of a test run. If the test is repeated with the 'good' batteries in various states of charge, it should also be possible to get a better picture of system performance over a realistic portion of their discharge curves. More importantly, it should give a better idea as to whether this system has any practical application, given the control measures that are currently needed to be carried out manually to 'balance' the system. In an ideal situation, if excess energy were entering the system big time, then the system SG losses and gains should I think at least balance.

Below is some diagrams I made, the colored arrows (triangles) after a diode is a flyback output and a colored arrow facing a wire is the corresponding input. Dashed lines represent power currents, the colored sections of the torus represent the primary coils, and the setup would have a secondary constituting a transformer or inverter. It could be however many phases. I've a few drawing but I'll just post the one and the sketch. 

The sketch is of how a motor could be run from caps in a similar way to the video contraption I posted.    Disregarding the silly way I drew the motor itself, the power part and potential difference is the point to it. 

And for good measure a Brandt Switch drawing.

Hoppy,
There is definitely a way to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that this thing puts out way more energy than is contained in the primary batteries.


Dave

David,

If you are confident about this, then you need to detail exactly how you intend to work out how many ampere hours have been extracted from your primary batteries, given that the mechanical loading on the motor(s) and any applied electrical loading (such as an inverter) on the batteries will be variable over the duration of the run. The rate and level of current draw from your batteries will affect the run time (ref: virtual capacity - Peukerts Law). Also, How do you intend to properly measure the current drawn by the motor? Think in terms of using a power analyser which will give you total watt/hours, which can then be converted to Amp hours by using the average secondary battery voltage measured over the duration of the test. See this link for examples of power analysers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RkldBzc-Vs

With an instrument of this type, you will also be able to determine the amount of energy in w/hrs delivered to the primary batteries during the charging process. This energy of course needs to be taken into account when working out the overall efficiency of the system.

I purchased a power analyzer. Should be here in a couple days, but this pushes things off until next Wednesday. That gives me some more time anyway. I'm not sure if it will work since the motor is wired between the positives of two batteries, but I can still use it to measure the DC output of the generator in amps and volts. I can measure the output of the inverter through the kilowatt meter. To measure what the motor uses I can measure the amps, volts and time it has been running. Since it will run at a constant speed, that should be accurate enough for this test. Because I think you will be surprised by how long this setup will run.


Dave

Good move. I mentioned overall system efficiency. You need to have some benchmarks as to when you re-charge and measure the input energy to your your primary batteries and a consistent re-charge period between test cycles. This is where the SG level may be a better benchmark than voltage levels, assuming you can measure this accurately enough. The system COP will tell you how close to unity your system is running. This is not a straightforward procedure and as I mentioned earlier, it may be difficult to determine if any free energy is entering the system, especially as I predict the COP will be nowhere near as high as you are expecting.

Please document your test procedure and your measurements for each test cycle, preferably in spreadsheet format, so that all interested parties can use these measurements as a basis for conducting their own tests for comparative purposes. This should encourage more people to come on board to build their own 3BGS systems.

those s.g. results ought to be very revealing bowt whats going down dave.im holdin thumbs

I have run this motor/gen combination off a fully charged battery until that battery would no longer run the motor. I did this half a dozen times with these brand new lawn and garden batteries and they were all within minutes of each other in run times. I posted those run times already somewhere on EF, but the times are in my notebook. When I have six batteries and they all run the motor for about the same length of time on a full charge, I ASSUME that is about how long they should run that load. Yes, I know SOME batteries might be able to run the load longer, but...TWO of these are the SAME two batteries I am using as my primaries. Now, you have to admit, When they were brand new and fully charged they should have run this motor/gen combo for longer than they will now that I have totally abused them by draining them until they would no longer run the load. So I KNOW how long the good batteries will power this load under the best of circumstances. Now I am adding 4 coils to the generator, which will make it run harder and draw more amps. I am adding the two dead batteries and the buffer battery that is a GOOD battery but has been purposely drained down to 12 volts. I will measure the specific gravity of each cell of all of these before I start.


By the way, that is how I have figured out how long ALL of my batteries should run my load. I bought ten of the 18 1/2 amp hour batteries and used each one to run the motor until it wouldn't run any more. Recorded those run times. Yes, some run the load a little longer than others, but not HOURS longer, NOT days longer, and certainly not WEEKS longer. I took four of those batteries I wanted to kill and recharged them; then did that process over and over and over until they became my "bad" batteries for my experiments. And I recorded THOSE run times too. So I have a fairly GOOD idea of how long a brand new battery will run my motor as a load. Yes there are exceptions to the rule, but they don't happen every time. That's why it's called an exception. With this setup you get those long run times EVERY TIME. That is why I believe there is something there. But...we will see.

If you guys are watching the thread at EF, you will see that we have a fairly stable setup that is able to run loads while keeping the primary charged and in some cases increasing the voltage in the primaries. The issue is, it will NOT work with lead acid batteries, only with AGM. Can anyone suggest a test that would satisfy everyone using AGM batteries? I would be happy to conduct that test and post the results. I don't know that measuring the specific gravity of AGM batteries will give folks the proof they are looking for.


Dave