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Author Topic: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device  (Read 212778 times)

Offline itsu

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #555 on: November 05, 2017, 02:13:07 PM »

I happen to have a depleted, broken or otherwise defective 12V / 7Ah battery which only holds about 7.2V.
I have used the above mentioned setup (2x 12V / 7Ah batteries in series, across the depleted battery in series with a 12V dc motor) in trying to revive this battery.

It takes a while (10 minutes) before the motor starts turning and keeps on increasing in speed (voltage/current) while the depleted battery voltage keeps decreasing
from 24V to 14V  when i stopped this run due to bedtime.

Overnight this battery hold its voltage to 8.16V, so it looks in a somewhat better shape. 
Guess i can repeat this test with a longer duration to see if i can fully restore this battery this way.
Temperature measurements did not show any in - or decrease during the half an hour test.

Video here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1Yu3uk85Ko

Itsu





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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #555 on: November 05, 2017, 02:13:07 PM »

Offline itsu

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #556 on: November 06, 2017, 01:10:02 AM »
I made a longer 3.5 hour run today in trying to revive my depleted / no charge holding battery.
I think i gained another volt as it settled down after a few hours resting on 9.78V which is still a far cry from the 12.5V this battery should be able to hold,
but 2.5 volts better then with what i started with (7.2V).

One thing i again (after yesterdays run) noticed is that when taking temperature readings of the + and - leads of the battery, there seems to be a difference of max. 0.7°C
especially during the start / middle period when the voltage and currents are fluctuating heavily.

Lateron it settles down again till about 0.1°C difference which i think falls within the specs of the used temp meters.
I used a laser temp. meter and lateron backed it up with a fixed temp. probe on a multimeter.

Here the table of todays run:

time into the run         + lead temp. °C     - lead temp. °C       Delta °C

00:00                         20.1                     20.5                       0.4
00:20                         19.9                     20.5                       0.6
00:40                         19.7                     20.4                       0.7    <<<<< max.
01:00                         19.1                     19.7                       0.6
01:30                         20.3                     20.7                       0.4
02:00                         20.4                     20.8                       0.4
02:30                         21                       21.1                        0.1
03:00                         20.8                    20.9                        0.1
03:30                         21.2                    21.3                        0.1

Video here:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcgXGp9q6gU   


I guess i have to confirm in a better way that there is a temp. difference (cooling effect?) during loading of a battery or more specific, of such a depleted / no charge holding battery.


Itsu
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 10:25:20 AM by itsu »

Offline ramset

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #557 on: November 06, 2017, 01:39:22 AM »
Well
that seems unusual.
very nice work itsu ,some have been discussing the test criteria and adding Temp monitoring was being kicked around too [as opposed to spot checking] , Now it seems data logging temp should be mandatory  [checking plus and minus was very smart  8)


hopefully the arduino will have enuff ability to do this on 4 or 5 batteries during the various automated cycling stages.

very nice indeed .

Chet

PS
I am sure you are aware Duncan will be doing a test when he gets back from his trip to see if he can reproduce his frosty battery event
that would truly be something to see.




Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #557 on: November 06, 2017, 01:39:22 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #558 on: November 06, 2017, 04:47:57 AM »
Well
that seems unusual.
very nice work itsu ,some have been discussing the test criteria and adding Temp monitoring was being kicked around too [as opposed to spot checking] , Now it seems data logging temp should be mandatory  [checking plus and minus was very smart  8)


hopefully the arduino will have enuff ability to do this on 4 or 5 batteries during the various automated cycling stages.

very nice indeed .

Chet

PS
I am sure you are aware Duncan will be doing a test when he gets back from his trip to see if he can reproduce his frosty battery event
that would truly be something to see.
[/glow]


Indeed.



Brad

Offline itsu

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #559 on: November 06, 2017, 10:27:53 AM »
Chet,

yes, that comment from Duncan and others about freezing up etc. triggered me to do these temp. checks.
This morning my depleted battery has settled down to 9.3V, so 2V gain, but nowhere near topcondition  :)

Itsu

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #559 on: November 06, 2017, 10:27:53 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline ramset

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #560 on: November 06, 2017, 01:01:31 PM »
itsu
Regarding your battery
yes looking into temperature claims seems interesting indeed.
also
I suppose it would be a good one to test some other methods for restoration, I know Brad and others have ideas on how to do this.
some are pretty radical and perhaps dangerous,[maybe to do inside on the bench ?]

This testing Luc is doing is taking up too much time this way [his valuable bench time]
and needs to be automated so he can just set it to run and do other things.
Also
some very interesting investigations/claims coming down the path...

Honestly ,we do have to sort the funding out here...a method to  get parts and funds to the builders so they can get projects done

This resource [you builders here and elsewhere ] is priceless and really needs to be nurtured not abused ..too many good builders get burned out with the extra burden to their life [poverty from spending ]

will talk to Stefan again about this ,he mentioned some other method, but it was more commercial stuff not funding, maybe a donate button like Peter did for builders at his forum?

we are trying to Budget the parts for these upcoming projects ! and right now we need to get all the bits to automate Luc's testing and data collection.


some VERY cool projects on the path ,one which has been around a very long time and never been publicly tested.
and some new insight into the Benitez claim ,and then there is the all soo tempting "water work " sonoluminescence etc...

 To be clear
all these projects will be done in a manner which can be replicated on the average builders bench.

**well one long standing claim will have a "fixture" which is not readily available ,but if the gain is found it will be reproducible on the average guys bench.

the tools we have available today , technology and support systems to monitor , adjust and regulate experiments on the average bench...is mind boggling,  add the support we have from the scientific community to that recipe !! :o

we need to sort funding and equipment donations and.......

lots to do ,  we need people help too

Chet






Offline itsu

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #561 on: November 06, 2017, 05:19:57 PM »

Chet,

i think i tried every trick in the book to revive this battery which was a gift from a neighbour.
He had it standing unused on the shelf for more then 10 years so this gel battery was dryed out.
I tried to charge it, but it was unable to hold more then 4V, so i added some distilled water to the cells
which brought it back to about 8V.

After that i tried severall things like desulfate it, pulse it, nanopulse it, short it, boost it, rock it, drop it etc.,
but still it only holds about 7 - 9V.

I think its a dead end, so i tried it for this 3 battery test without good results as it now is back to 8.2V.


Thanks for the info on what your are doing in the background, its of great importance, we cannot thank you enough for doing all this
under the circumstances you have to operate under at the moment.
Its much appreciated!

Itsu

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #561 on: November 06, 2017, 05:19:57 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline ramset

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #562 on: November 06, 2017, 07:23:41 PM »
itsu
Thanks, although nothing could happen in the background without the  work of fellows here and elsewhere .

an amazing pool of talent !


Chet

Offline tinman

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #563 on: November 09, 2017, 04:53:08 AM »
In light of Luc's testing and scope shot's of the !Matt! motor,it would appear to me that there measurement error has been found.

It would seem to me,that the power being sent back to the source,is being counted as power dissipated by the motor--when in fact,it is power stored in the motor,being returned to the source.

As the current has an AC component to it,a power factor correction would have to be made,in order to calculate the correct power dissipated by the motor.

This power factor correction would be the total power - the power returned back to the source.

Looking at the below scope shot,i have marked two red lines showing the portion of power being returned to the source--a PS in this case.


Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #563 on: November 09, 2017, 04:53:08 AM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #564 on: November 09, 2017, 09:02:56 AM »
The good news is that the fellows are seeing much longer run times than have been publicly presented thus far[in this new thread at EF] ,and a much bolder and simpler method to see these extended run times  will be shared .
even parts and such are being offered by the fellows [to Luc for testing]

if they can get their thread back over there??


it will be good to finally understand what is happening here ,I believe this next method will finally put this into a very clear perspective.


Offline tinman

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #565 on: November 09, 2017, 11:04:51 AM »
The good news is that the fellows are seeing much longer run times than have been publicly presented thus far[in this new thread at EF] ,and a much bolder and simpler method to see these extended run times  will be shared .
even parts and such are being offered by the fellows [to Luc for testing]

if they can get their thread back over there??


it will be good to finally understand what is happening here ,I believe this next method will finally put this into a very clear perspective.

Oh let me guess--BroMonkey is on the loose again.

Quote
it will be good to finally understand what is happening here ,I believe this next method will finally put this into a very clear perspective.

Cool
And then it's on to that other one you were talking about Chet?,---Thats the one im waiting for.
Might even build me one of them  ;)


Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #565 on: November 09, 2017, 11:04:51 AM »
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Offline SeaMonkey

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #566 on: December 20, 2017, 03:06:25 AM »
Quote from: Dave posted by Bro. Mikey at EF
Originally Posted by Turion

What if the thing that makes this work is NOT a potential difference between the higher voltage in the source batteries and the lower voltage in the bad batteries, but a potential difference between "positive charged batteries" and "negative charged batteries." Think about that for just a minute.
 
 After all, I know for a fact, and so do many of you, that the bad battery actually flips polarity. and WHILE IT IS FLIPPED, that is when the magic happens. Now, that means that perhaps if we could get a battery to STAY flipped, we could run this thing forever. And maybe a lower voltage bad battery has a greater potential difference than a higher voltage bad battery (when they flip polarity) in relation to the two fully charged good batteries
 
 So lets talk about that for a minute. OBVIOUSLY there is a source of reversed or negative energy hitting that bad battery that causes it to flip, but once it does there is also a source of energy that is great enough to get it to flip BACK to the original. What if those two sources of energy could be isolated from each other and/or isolated from the bad battery? If it is the motor that causes the battery to flip, then we need a different circuit when that happens. Maybe we run it off one bad battery until it flips negative and keep it running there, but the minute it flips positive again, we switch to a second bad battery. Something like that. Alternating between the two.
 
 I have had a battery hooked up to a motor as generator for four days now, trying to create a negative transducer.  It reads just short of -12 volts, but as soon as I disconnect the motor, the negative voltage in the battery starts dropping. Why is that? What makes that battery WANT to go positive, and where does that energy go that is showing up as almost -12 volts in the battery right now?  It seems to want to settle at about -7 volts, and I can't get it to go any higher than about -11.78 on the negative side.
 
 Dave

I'd seen some talk of "battery flipping" in discussion of this
Continuous Charging Device (3 Battery Generating System)
but have no idea what it actually refers to.  Has anyone
experienced such "battery flipping" in addition to Dave?
Can anyone explain what "battery flipping"  is all about and
how one knows whether a battery has "flipped?"

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #567 on: December 20, 2017, 04:43:52 AM »
Only certain batteries can do that.
One kind are manufactured without a polarity
And charged by the distribution company that packages it.
This is when they do, they label it on their wrapper.
These cells often have no physical distinction of which end is which.


another is a carbon/zinc battery
The casing is made of zinc, carbon rod inside,
And a zinc-chloride electrolyte that deposits its zinc back onto the casing
Instead of on the carbon rod.


I think they usually say not to recharge them.
Which, while you Can, will often cause leaks and crust up your battery holder
They also don’t shelf long while charged. They make themselves leak
And the charge will form tiny zinc-bridges in the chloride solution
Shorting then from the inside over time. So you often buy these and they don’t work.


can you charge these positronically?
Yes, and from an electrical perspective with our one-sided meters,
It would show a potential + on the - end of the battery.
Science would try to label that as some kind of “hole” electrons like to jump into.
I can those Positrons.


They are mathematically the same.


A battery has a potential because of a particular electrochemical condition.
Generally a chemical reaction takes place, and destroys one of the electrodes.
But some actually store the potential in the electrolyte itself.
At which point the electrodes define the polarity.
We have a chart of which ones are + and which ones are -
And for the most part the metals follow certain rules, and we know what to expect.
But in the case of anode/cathode neutrality, or when we exceed electrical constants for the
materials involved, + and - are simply a condition of the electrodes.
If you completely drain it (left shorted for a long time)
the battery has to follow the laws of material physics,
it’s whatever polarity we make it be.


Volta actually talked about it way before we were all born.
He’s The Godfather of battery’s. The guys house looked like an Everready factory.
Well, maybe more like a mad scientist lab, he had batteries made of every
chemical you could get your hands on in the 1800s
but he gets 1 line of mention in history, kind of like that other guy,
That invented almost everything we use today.


Anyways Volta discovered that
Certain acid solutions, if connected in reverse to other piles (batteries)
periodically, would repair the anode




Not only making the pile usable again, but he noted the potential from the opposite direction
When a 270-pile was left on it overnight. (his normal ones were 1/10th the size)




He actually invented the first rechargeable batteries, (and flipped them?)
but like most of our old knowledge is so
buried under the nonsense we think we know, that we forget. And someone else invents it again
and takes credit for it.
Like this guy
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaston_Planté




Volta also discovered Methane, and invented the internal combustion engine.
(and electrical ignition)
And the capacitor




Offline sm0ky2

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #568 on: December 20, 2017, 05:37:04 AM »
What does this have to do with Dave’s device?


Well the particular batteries he is using
Are leadsulfide electrodes
And water.
(To flip these you have to completely drain them,
Converting 100% of the H2SO4 back into water.)
Don’t do the little timmy test!




Pick a plate and charge it, one of the electrodes
will then dump it’s SO4 into the water and make sulfuric acid.


The two primary distinctions between the two he tells us to use
FLA’s are mil-spec, their voltage drops off at 50% discharge.
They make them all suck consistently, so we don’t have our
Air Force pilots crashing from unexpected battery life.


Fiberglass Matt LA’s run at most of their voltage for about 80%
of their charge.
They last longer in general, but they come with inconsistent life.
Some will naturally hold more charge than others, and even
from charge to charge may be inconsistent in the same battery.


If this were what he was doing, wouldn’t that just put 3 batteries
in series with the motor?


The more likely scenario is the motor is running on the potential difference
between 24 vs 12
Which is just like running it with one battery
The other battery is charging from the same potential.
The motor should run about twice as long,
And the two batteries will be drained, leaving us with
One battery mostly charged.


Now of course you can do all sorts of tricks during this time
like switching the batteries around, depleting and charging
And eventually all 3 will be PbSO4 and water (dead)


Offline Magluvin

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #569 on: December 20, 2017, 05:37:32 AM »
Being lead acid batteries have lead electrodes for pos and neg, is one different than the other only by way of charge direction from the start? Like you can get motorcycle batteries without electrolyte, and they have voltage when it is filled, so one of the electrodes must have been pre treated before assy.

Will have to look that up.

Mags

 

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