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Author Topic: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device  (Read 266762 times)

Offline markdansie

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #270 on: July 26, 2013, 04:08:39 AM »
I admire your efforts and keep up the good work.
You have an interesting project. It is not producing overunity or excess energy, but you are fixing up some old batteries.
The results you are seeing are attributed to many things under the tittle "Battery Effect"
These include surface charge, desulfating, and changing the architecture of the plate surface. All are very explainable.


Now run it with a bank of caps continuous and you will have everyone's attention.
Kind Regards




Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #270 on: July 26, 2013, 04:08:39 AM »

Offline profitis

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #271 on: July 26, 2013, 05:03:17 AM »
@markdansie..we dont know that for sure.we have back-emf spikes evry time the brush passes a gap,whers the energy of the backspikes going into?@bowling,the thought occured to me that the dead bat is acting as some sort of diode either allowing use of the backspike or itself being charged by the backspike.current will go easier in one direction through a bat than the other,even if dead,im just toying with ideas here..

Offline Dbowling

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #272 on: July 26, 2013, 05:53:59 AM »
We have three people in different parts of the country with working devices. All you have is your opinion. Either build it and see what it can do, or go away. I have no time for you. I am doing hours of test runs every day without ever charging the primaries. But just to annoy folks like you even more, I am going to the store tomorrow and buy two of the smallest amp hour 12 volt batteries I can find. My load doesn't change. It is a 12 volt motor that pulls 11 amps running another motor as generator. When I put a load on the generator it draws even MORE amps, but we won't go into that. The amp draw was taken with both an analogue gauge shown and a digital meter. It has been checked more than once and is ALWAYS at least 11 amps. Here is the video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw5O5Cn7Nug[/font][/size]



Now, if I am not lying about that, how long would you expect I could run that load even if the voltage in all five of the batteries we are using in the system were full. We have three 18.5 amp hour batteries, one of which we drain down to 12 volts or less before putting it into the system. And we have two 4.5 amp hour DEAD batteries we are using as our transducer batteries which show less than 2 volts. So even if all of these were full, how many amp hours of run time could I expect to get out of my motor?
3x 18.5 = 55.5
2x 4.5 = 9
-----------------


65.5 amp hours


divided by 11 amps. is a little over five hours of run time. Yet I ran it for 10 hours one day and 8 the next without recharging, plus a few hours  the day before that and for two more today before I screwed up and let my loads get out of balance, which ran my primaries down to 12.2 volts. And that doesn't count the inverter which is running off the system on which I have running 18.5 watts worth of lights the entire time.  And you can explain that all away through "desulfation" of the old batteries? Good luck with that.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #272 on: July 26, 2013, 05:53:59 AM »
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Offline LibreEnergia

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #273 on: July 26, 2013, 09:37:58 AM »
We have three people in different parts of the country with working devices. All you have is your opinion. Either build it and see what it can do, or go away. I have no time for you. I am doing hours of test runs every day without ever charging the primaries. But just to annoy folks like you even more, I am going to the store tomorrow and buy two of the smallest amp hour 12 volt batteries I can find. My load doesn't change. It is a 12 volt motor that pulls 11 amps running another motor as generator. When I put a load on the generator it draws even MORE amps, but we won't go into that. The amp draw was taken with both an analogue gauge shown and a digital meter. It has been checked more than once and is ALWAYS at least 11 amps. Here is the video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw5O5Cn7Nug[/font][/size]



Now, if I am not lying about that, how long would you expect I could run that load even if the voltage in all five of the batteries we are using in the system were full. We have three 18.5 amp hour batteries, one of which we drain down to 12 volts or less before putting it into the system. And we have two 4.5 amp hour DEAD batteries we are using as our transducer batteries which show less than 2 volts. So even if all of these were full, how many amp hours of run time could I expect to get out of my motor?
3x 18.5 = 55.5
2x 4.5 = 9
-----------------


65.5 amp hours


divided by 11 amps. is a little over five hours of run time. Yet I ran it for 10 hours one day and 8 the next without recharging, plus a few hours  the day before that and for two more today before I screwed up and let my loads get out of balance, which ran my primaries down to 12.2 volts. And that doesn't count the inverter which is running off the system on which I have running 18.5 watts worth of lights the entire time.  And you can explain that all away through "desulfation" of the old batteries? Good luck with that.

Before you waste any more time on this you should do as he suggests and try and run it on capacitors...
There is no excess energy being generated in your setup.

Offline markdansie

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #274 on: July 26, 2013, 12:42:26 PM »
Why build when over the years every single one of these devices I know that was tested failed to do as claimed. If you are so certain its not The battery effect then run it on capacitors. I owuld love to hear yoru argument on that.
Unfortunately history is against you on this and some well known examples like Magnacoaster has highlighted the folly. The last two I went to Test in South Africa both failed. Please name just one device (go to Free Energy News they have dozens listed) that panend out

measuring battery voltage is not a good indicator or the storage capacity or health , especially when your actually changing them.
@ profitis Care to design a set of tests and instrumentation for this to demonstrate it is anything other than the battery effect?
Kind Regards
Mark :)


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #274 on: July 26, 2013, 12:42:26 PM »
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Offline Hoppy

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #275 on: July 26, 2013, 01:23:47 PM »
David, I have been following your work quietly for some time and have conducted my own experiments with the 3BGS. As you well know, a sulfated battery may have retained a considerable level of charge before it sulfated to a condition where its internal resistance reached a point that makes it unuseable for normal applications. When this same battery is de-sulfated to some extent by 'spike' conditioning, the 'locked-in' energy is released and can begin to run a load. It may take a considerable time for the energy to released to a level that can start to run a load and I've had to wait as long as 45 mins before some batteries show any sign of life on the 3BGS system and allow my scooter motor to start turning. Nonetheless, even these apparently 'stone dead' batteries can also have considerable 'locked-in' energy that can be coaxed out by prolonged conditioning. I have found that its not possible to extract all of the 'locked-up' energy from a sulfated battery just by loading it for a long time, so when you think an old  battery has been fully discharged because its unloaded terminal voltage is just a volt or so, it can still hold a considerable level of energy waiting to be released by desulfation!

The effect caused by the release of this energy is to cause increase potentialisation which can cause the 'good' batteries to appear to hang or even increase in voltage level as their internal impedances attempt to stabilise to the condition imposed on their terminals from the 'dead' battery. This gives the impression that the 'good' batteries are being charged or just not draining as quickly as expected for the load across the 'dead' battery. Placing even more load across the 'dead' battery seems to have little effect on the 'good' batteries and can even cause their terminal voltage to increase! However, a point is reached when the 'good' batteries have impedance stabilised sufficiently and start supplying more current to maintain the load that cannot be maintained by the 'bad battery. From that point on its down hill all the way! The effects we see are all to do with battery vagaries and nothing to do with free energy IMO.

Offline ramset

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #276 on: July 26, 2013, 02:41:54 PM »
David
For Clarity,...You are seeing 100 amp hours of work from a 36 amp hour battery bank?
 
Have you calibrated your output measurement protocol ?
 
Sorry if you have answered tnat somewhere already ,However if you are managing to harvest additional energy from this settup we cannot afford to be so dismissive of the possible sources!

Varifying YOUR claim is all that matters here,that requires a good test protocol!
We can do that.........
 
thanks for your patience and for sharing all your hard work.
 
Chet

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #276 on: July 26, 2013, 02:41:54 PM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #277 on: July 26, 2013, 03:16:35 PM »
Why build when over the years every single one of these devices I know that was tested failed to do as claimed. If you are so certain its not The battery effect then run it on capacitors. I owuld love to hear yoru argument on that.
Unfortunately history is against you on this and some well known examples like Magnacoaster has highlighted the folly. The last two I went to Test in South Africa both failed. Please name just one device (go to Free Energy News they have dozens listed) that panend out

measuring battery voltage is not a good indicator or the storage capacity or health , especially when your actually changing them.
@ profitis Care to design a set of tests and instrumentation for this to demonstrate it is anything other than the battery effect?
Kind Regards
Mark :)
Mark-you cant always replace batteries with caps.Batteries have a very low internal resistance,where as caps have a parallel resistance and a series resistance. What happens if we have a battery and a cap in series,and then try to drive a load from say the negative of the cap and the positive of the battery?. Some circuits require that low internal resistance to opperate,and replacing the batteries with caps may change the systems operation. But i do agree that in most cases that the batteries should be able to be replaced with cap's.

Offline profitis

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #278 on: July 26, 2013, 05:17:22 PM »
wait a minute wait a minute guys.lets first try to analyse what happens in a single battery attatched to a single motor.there is going to be a pulsed current going into the motor due to gaps in the brush contact-time thus what may appear as say 4amphours of steady amps going in is actualy 3amphours?its depends on the gapsize between the brush-motor contacts.if the gaps are tiny then this will be negligable.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #278 on: July 26, 2013, 05:17:22 PM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #279 on: July 26, 2013, 05:28:51 PM »
secondly,on a single bat with single motor,where will the backspikes go into,they must go straight back into the bat,am i right or am i right?

Offline markdansie

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #280 on: July 26, 2013, 05:31:30 PM »
Good point Tinman and I acknowledge that  you can not always use caps. However I guess my tolerance is low when I see how people equate gains relying on voltage readings and not understanding what is happening to the battery. I see this time and time again. In the long term it never works out.
Kind Regards
Mark

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #280 on: July 26, 2013, 05:31:30 PM »
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Offline Dbowling

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #281 on: July 26, 2013, 05:32:58 PM »
Gentlemen,
I didn't come here to get into a pissing contest, and that is what this is turning into. If you choose not to believe, that is up to you. I learned long ago that when someone doesn't believe they will always call your results into question one way or another and you will spend all your time trying to convince them. I have no time to waste on you. It is YOUR loss, not mine. I felt like I owed the folks here something as this is where my journey began, but I feel like I have paid that debt by coming here, sharing the links to our research, and reporting that we now have a stable system. Other than that, I feel no need to prove myself. My proof is on my bench.


Hoppy, since you have built the thing, I WILL respond to what you said. The original 3BGS was a hit and miss proposition, and only the really dedicated folks who searched through dozens of bad batteries ever found one that would work for even a while. I applaud their efforts and YOURS for building the thing. I completely agree that dead, lifeless batteries may hold a lot of potential under that layer of sulfating and that even though they SHOW low voltage they can contribute to a system. But every battery has an amp hour rating. If you take the POSSIBLE amp hours of all the batteries in the schematic and add them all together, ad then exceed that by 10 or 20 times and still have a full charge in the primaries, would you THEN believe there is something to this? Because that is exactly what we are doing. I showed the amp draw of the motors we are running connected to load here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw5O5Cn7Nug   The only reason we are not getting MORE out of the system is because we are shutting it down. The batteries are still fully charged, and it could run much longer.  I only run mine for 10 hours at a time, because it is in the basement right under my bedroom and the possibilities of a fire during the night in a room right below where I sleep is not a comforting thought. Plus, this old house has no insulation in the floors so the only thing separating me from the noise of the running motor is 3/4 inch oak floorboards. In some places I can see light in the basement through the cracks.


I am not asking you to believe what I am saying. Not my videos, not my measurements, not my posted results. ALL of those can be faked. I am saying spend a few bucks and see for yourself. If you are not willing to do that then it is YOUR problem and you are probably not interested in knowing the truth anyway.


I am not going to be coming back here to post. I have no desire to argue with people. I have research to do. If you want to know the truth, follow what we are doing here:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/10610-3-battery-generating-system-78.html


You can skip all the way to page 78, because that is where we begin to talk about the modified 3BGS, and that is what you would want to build. Way easier to tune and you can see the results quickly. But be warned, the folks over there---all of them have systems they have seen work. So YOU will be the odd man out.


Good luck all.


Dave

Offline markdansie

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #282 on: July 26, 2013, 06:58:40 PM »
@ Hoppy
that was a good explanation. You can also add surface charging effect and also pitting the surface increasing the overall surface area of the plates which actually increases output for some time. Long term the battery will have a much shortened lifespan.


@ Profitis.......correct


@ Dbowling
No pissing contest, just pointing out some potential flaws in your assumptions and measuring methodologies based on past experience. I am trying to help you.
Your posts, research and experiments are much valued I am sure by many and contribute to the collective knowledge.
However when you make claims, they will be peer reviewed and challenged. Packing up you bat and ball as a form of punishment is both immature and childish. However that is always your decision. You talk about belief and relying on only building up number of believers vs collective knowledge is always a dangerous path to follow if you are seeking the truth and progress.
All the best and kind regards
Mark


Offline Hoppy

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #283 on: July 26, 2013, 07:20:40 PM »
David,

Thank you for responding to my post. I do not write lightly about my doubt over the 3BGS system being overunity. Like you I have spent much time studying this system and must support you insofar as the system appearing to be overunity in the way it reacts. You will have noticed that when the 'bad' battery is loaded, the two good batteries can hold rigid on their terminal voltages for a long time. When the load is removed from the 'bad' battery, you will also have noticed that as the bad battery charges, there is a very slight alteration in the levels of the two good batteries, especially when measured with a meter showing 3-decimal places. Each successive loading and charging of the 'bad' battery results in a slight lowering of the 'good batteries'.

Now, consider the charging and discharging curves of an LA battery. We have a somewhat conditioned 'bad' battery and two well conditioned 'good' batteries. When the two 'good' batteries are charging the unloaded 'bad' battery, its terminal voltage will rise quite quickly (steep rise of charging curve) as it is still in a poor condition. However the two good batteries are now on load and are operating in a more solid (flat portion) of their discharge curves and will show much less rate of voltage change than the 'bad' battery. In order to establish a true measurement of ampere hours extracted from the system to ampere hours supplied to the system, then it is necessary to measure battery capacities. It is not good enough to assume that just because the motor has drawn 11 Amps for 'x' time and that the 'good batteries have only dropped a few hundredths of a volt in that time period and just because the batteries pop back to the voltage they started at before the test run, that 'free energy' is at play. Now, I'm not saying that your system is not running OU, just that until a more robust measuring system is put into place, this cannot be assumed to be the case. The more batteries introduced into the system, the more complex the measuring situation becomes!

My suggestion for starters would be to purchase a good quality battery analyser that measures capacity. This will not be highly accurate but should give you a better idea of how your system balances with varying loads. A written test procedure would be helpful to provide some testing benchmarks.

Offline Dbowling

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #284 on: July 26, 2013, 09:16:44 PM »
"It is not good enough to assume that just because the motor has drawn 11 Amps for 'x' time and that the 'good batteries have only dropped a few hundredths of a volt in that time period and just because the batteries pop back to the voltage they started at before the test run, that 'free energy' is at play."


Hoppy, that is not what I am saying at all. I am saying that the five batteries I am using only have so many amp hours of energy in them, and this is according to their amp hour rating. When the system has run a load for ten or twenty times that number of amp hours, somebody should be taking a look at that system,  whether the primary batteries are full (as is my contention) or whether they are flatter than a pancake. I have taken brand new off the shelf batteries, topped them off with a charger, let them rest for a few hours,  and run the same load on them. I know how long they will run that load before they won't run no more. I have done that not once, but several times to get an "average." I don't care about how much voltage is left in my batteries, or even what I started with or ended with. All I care about is how much load I can run for how long compared to a standard setup, and I am telling you the modified 3BGS beats that by miles and miles and miles.


i am not taking my ball and going home. I just don't have the time to argue this all day long with folks who are never going to believe and want me to constantly jump through hoops to prove I am not full of crap. I am on the 3BGS forum all day long. You can find me there any time. I am ALREADY running a test for someone called "Skeptic" over on that site. I am measuring the specific gravity of every cell in the primary batteries. Then running a load for ten times as long as it would run connected to the five batteries I am using if all five were fully charged, according to their amp hour rating and the load I am running. And then measuring the specific gravity of the cells in the primary batteries again. But he doesn't get it either. It is not about what voltage I started with or what remains, it is about how much WORK was done. If I can do ten or twenty times more work than is POSSIBLE with these batteries, where did that energy come from?  We already know that the motor has a 12 volt input and an 18 volt output wired between the positives in this setup, so that is where SOME of it is coming from, but we are seeing way more work than we can account for. Believe or don't believe. Contribute or don't contribute. Build or don't build. All your choice. I am not running away from your disbelief. I just don't have the time to waste trying to prove to you it works. Someone will ALWAYS want one more test.  Build it and do your OWN tests. I did what I came here to do, and now I am leaving. Come join us, or DON'T.


You know where to find me.

 

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