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Author Topic: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device  (Read 229921 times)

Offline Groundloop

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #135 on: November 04, 2008, 11:55:50 PM »
@FatBird,

Thanks, yes I agree. :-)

Attached is my first small humble test. I have used two charged 1,2V 2000mAh NiMeh batteries connected
to a small 1,5 Volt 2mA electric motor, connected to a 1,2V 1600mAh fully drained NiMeh battery.

The motor runs and the drained battery is slowely beeing charged.

Groundloop.

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #135 on: November 04, 2008, 11:55:50 PM »

Offline Goat

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Attention Admins - Please delete my last posts
« Reply #136 on: November 05, 2008, 08:16:53 AM »
@ Dbowling & Groundloop

A million apologies for misinterpreting the description of the circuit wiring.

@ Admins, if you happen to read this, please delete this post and the last posts from today made by myself, I was way off on the schematic and concur with Groundloop's correction in his schematic which is correct, my schematic was wrong.   

Please delete my schematic and responses because they were both wrong  :P

Sorry all.

Regards,
Paul

Offline Goat

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #137 on: November 05, 2008, 08:26:26 AM »

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #137 on: November 05, 2008, 08:26:26 AM »
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Offline pese

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #138 on: November 05, 2008, 09:07:09 AM »
@Goat,

I think he connected the circuit like this.

Groundloop.
This way , I understand that the Motot is runnung only with 6 volts, if the the natteries are 12 volts AND the output point will be shorted (closed) - if they must deliver power in Outut Ohmic Load, it will lossed more voltages going in the motor (?)  Con anybody explain the "overiity" than i can not see here
Pese

Offline Omega_0

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #139 on: November 05, 2008, 03:46:57 PM »
Looks very simple and interesting .
Thanks for sharing it.

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #139 on: November 05, 2008, 03:46:57 PM »
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Offline Dbowling

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #140 on: November 05, 2008, 06:12:07 PM »
Please remember the most important part of my diagram was that battery number 3 is a DEAD battery. Not just a LOW battery, but a DEAD one that WILL NOT HOLD A CHARGE. If it holds a charge, things DO NOT WORK as I have described them. This is critical for who knows what reason. Here is my best guess based on the results I have seen.
When electricity is flowing into the "dead" battery it is forced through it and out the other side, charging it. But as the motor pulses during its rotation that completed circuit is continuously broken allowing the "cold" electricity from an outside source to be added to the system.

If battery 3 is just a low battery, yes it will charge, the motor will run, and you will even be able to run additional loads, but eventually the voltage on batteries 1 and 2 will go down.

The info on the motor I was using

CIM
First Robotics
FR801-001
12Vdc
101104

That's everything that was written on the motor.

I used Werker 12 volt 18 amp hour batteries, Universal Batteries 12 volt 18 amp hours and Power Sonic 12 volt 18 amp hour batteries.

Offline Dbowling

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #141 on: November 05, 2008, 06:31:22 PM »
If you read my description of my first experiment again, you will see that when I first flipped the switch, NOTHING happened. The motor did not run. I sat around for 15 or 20 minutes talking to a friend, and suddenly the motor started. It ran until all three batteries were fully charged, and then it SHUT ITSELF OFF. Battery 3 slowly drained and then it started back up again ALL BY ITSELF. It repeated this cycle over and over and over for several DAYS. I just let it run. If you flip the switch and yours starts up, you know that you do NOT have a dead battery in the #3 position, so go find a DEAD one.  Until you get the system to do THIS, you do NOT have a system that will continue to charge itself and run small appliances. Eventually battery 1 and 2 will run down as you continue to draw power from them to charge battery 3. Battery 3 HAS to be a battery that will NOT hold a charge. I wish I knew why, since I believe that, and the pulsing of the motor are the two things that make this whole thing work, and finding a dead battery isn't always easy.

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #141 on: November 05, 2008, 06:31:22 PM »
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Offline Omega_0

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #142 on: November 05, 2008, 07:55:54 PM »

It repeated this cycle over and over and over for several DAYS. I just let it run.


Sounds good ... :)


and finding a dead battery isn't always easy.


Lol , thats right, I'm trying to find one, may be ,kill a battery intentionally.

But thanks for a clear cut description and I guess its the first time in the history of this site that we have complete information on something.

Offline Groundloop

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #143 on: November 05, 2008, 10:52:53 PM »
@Dbowling,

Thanks for the additional information.

I found the data sheet for the motor you are using. (Attached.)

I can see from the data sheet that your motor is very similar to a electric drill motor,
so I will give it a try. I'm currently charging up two of my 12 Volt 7 Ampere batteries.
I have a dead 12 Volt 7 Ampere battery that will not charge up on a regular charger
or on a Bedini type charger, so I suppose the battery is what you say, dead.

Do you have any theories why a lead acid battery is transformed into a negative resistor
when the battery is "dead" eg. heavy sulfated etc?

Groundloop.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #143 on: November 05, 2008, 10:52:53 PM »
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Offline Dbowling

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #144 on: November 05, 2008, 11:19:44 PM »
You've got everything right. I hooked all kinds of things to the terminals of battery 3 to keep it from getting charged, including my AC inverter. When I did that and turned the device plugged into the inverter on, the motor would speed up like crazy and the voltage on 1 and 2 would go way up. Sometimes as high as 16 or 18 volts and I got worried that the whole thing would blow up and I shut it down. The first time I did that, I remember we actually ran out of the room after we "pulled the plug" because the voltages on those two batteries was so high, and we were so intent on reading what was going on in battery 3 that we forgot about them. We were seriously worried about getting sprayed with battery acid. That night I bought two more meters so I had one for each battery.

I wish you all luck, and if anything comes of this, I hope you will keep me in the loop. I put this out here in the hopes that people a lot smarter than me will figure out ways to do this without a "dead" battery, because I am convinced that I could run a 12 volt electric motor hooked up to battery 3 until the end of time with this process. I just don't know if it would produce enough amps to run an electric car on. I would be interested in finding out.

Offline Dbowling

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #145 on: November 05, 2008, 11:40:04 PM »
In answer to your question I have no idea why a bad battery like this would act as a negative capacitor.
Here are the things I have actually observed.
1. With a dead battery in the system, and no external load, it will charge all the batteries to "full" capacity, and then shut itself off. How it knows what "full" is, I do not know. When disconnected from the system and measured seperately at this point, batteries 1 and 2 would read around 14 volts. Battery 3 would read the same, but after sitting for a while, would read almost nothing.

2. When a load is connected to battery 3 during the charging process, the voltages on batteries 1 and 2 increase faster and climb higher as if trying to equalize with battery 3 which is in use. Almost like it wants to put an equal amount of electricity down all three "pipes" even though only one is using any electricity.

3. Some of these same things will happen when battery 3 is just a "low" battery, but eventually batteries 1 and 2 will decrease in charge rather than increase, so eventually there comes a point where it won't work anymore.

It has been said that a battery really just acts as a gate to the energy that is all around us. Perhaps a dead battery has a constant flow of electricity through it when it is part of a circuit, but when the battery is "dead" the circuit through the battery is only complete part of the time as the motor turns and pulses the circuit. When the circuit is interrupted, (Or maybe when it is complete) energy comes into the battery from the outside and flows out during the other part of the rotation of the motor. The motor is acting as a super fast switch that allows something to happen inside that dead battery.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #145 on: November 05, 2008, 11:40:04 PM »
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Offline Groundloop

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #146 on: November 06, 2008, 12:07:22 AM »
@Dbowling,

Your theories are as good as mine, I guess. I think I have an explanation on why it shut off
the motor. At first you have two 12 volt batteries in series connected through the motor and
then to a zero volt battery. The "dead" zero volt battery now has a very high internal resistance
and the motor will not run. Then the "dead" battery gains some charge and the internal resistance
drops. The motor will now have approx. 12 volt and the lower resistance in the "dead" battery
will now allow some current to flow. When the "dead" battery has gained voltage then the voltage
potential over the motor drops. The motor stops and the "dead" battery will now loose its charge
turning to high internal resistance again. Then everything repeats.

When my two 12V7A batteries is charged then I will have approx. 168 Watt/h to play with.
(Much less in real life.) So I will hook up a 12 Volt 25 Watt light bulb as a load. If the light
bulb will light at full brightness for more than 7 hours, then there is over unity. Easy to test.
But first I must test to see if I can duplicate the on off circuit behavior.

Small steps..............

[EDIT] I have found a little more information on your motor.
See: http://www.firstwiki.net/index.php/CIM_motor
Company: http://home.cclmotors.com/welcome.aspx
A good replacement are:
The 2 1/2" CIM motor sold by BaneBots, part number M4-R0062-12 is identical to the CIM.

Groundloop.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2008, 12:37:12 AM by Groundloop »

Offline Dbowling

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #147 on: November 06, 2008, 03:55:16 AM »
It sounds like you know way more about electricity than I do. I'm glad. Maybe after you finish seeing if you can duplicate what I've done, you can look at another idea I have been keeping on the back burner. It is something I got from a european patent that supposedly works, but I have barely enough knowledge to put it together. I haven't yet in fact, because I haven't assembled all the parts. Radio shack does not have them all in stock and I need to order some. Not expensive, but time consuming, and time is somewhat of a premium for me most weeks. This just happens to be a really rare week so I've been trying to get as much as possible out to people. Let me know your results. I will be really interested.

Offline pese

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #148 on: November 06, 2008, 04:19:58 AM »
Attention
if you have 3 12 volt batteries.
AND 1 one of this is REVERS connected so : "this battery
is not an Zero Volt battery - not an "zero Ohm wire"
it is an battery, that have never 0 volt and 0 Ohm (inner resitance)
In any time anlead acid battery have his voltage , also must never
"unload". 
So the voltage (out) from this 3 batteries circuit is::

+ 12
+ 12
- 12
------
= 12 (positv voltages)

This circuit himself (withouout other parts, have the (first unbelibal) effect :
If the output is connected to an Load (Motor or bulb , resistor enc.
)
the 3 batterie will be charged !!!
(if they  was "weaker" before  as #1 and #2


Offline Groundloop

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Re: David Bowling's Continuous Charging Device
« Reply #149 on: November 06, 2008, 07:50:49 AM »
@Dbowling,

After I have replicated your setup then I can take a look at your new idea. Small steps.....

@Pese,

Please read the text again. I said "dead". This means that something is not exactly, but
pretty close to reality. Then I said >a very high internal resistance< this is on the opposite
scale of zero Ohm. High Ohm equals low current. Low Ohm equals high current.

Now let us talk about a "dead" battery. It is not just a battery. It is a device that has a high
internal resistance at very low voltage. It will climb to a relative high voltage very fast when
you try to charge it. It will drop to a relative low voltage very fast when you try to discharge it.
It is behaving more like a big electrolytic capacitor than a battery, but the internal resistance
is opposite of a electrolytic capacitor regarding charge and voltage. A capacitor has a low internal
resistance when empty, a "dead" battery has a high internal resistance when empty. OK?

Groundloop.

 

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