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Author Topic: new? magnet/gravity motor  (Read 17560 times)

Offline 2b

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new? magnet/gravity motor
« on: April 29, 2008, 12:26:49 AM »
i have had this idea for quite a while, and though i haven't read every post made by everyone, i have read 100's of related posts but never saw this idea, and was wondering if anyone else already knows the 'problems' of such a device.  see the attached JPG.

basically, the propeller or wheel spins clockwise.  as shown, at the top of the image, the outer static magnet will pull the cylindrical magnet up the spoke somewhat, while at the same time, at the bottom of the image, the outer static magnet will push the cylindrical magnet up the spoke somewhat; keeping the right side of the propeller/wheel over-weighted.  stainless steel can be used to shield magnetic fields when like poles are coming at each other, or when opposite poles are leaving each other; and gravity adds energy to the right-side over-weighted propeller/wheel, and the lower outside magnet boosts the magnet on the spoke inwards and upwards.

it seems to me that if everything was arranged properly, and any necessary shielding was used properly, the 'magnetic bessler wheel' should work, because there are more forces acting to make the propeller/wheel spin clockwise than the total number of forces that are in opposition.

i don't have the material at this time to try it, but if i did, i would, and i will when i can - but i thought i'd share this in case anyone does have the materials.  just a good chop-stick, a nail, and 2 cylindrical magnets, and 2 bar magnets.

« Last Edit: May 02, 2008, 09:09:53 PM by 2b »

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new? magnet/gravity motor
« on: April 29, 2008, 12:26:49 AM »

Offline 2b

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Re: new? magnet/gravity motor
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2008, 12:30:49 AM »
Work = (Force x Distance)
Work = (Mass x Acceleration x Distance)

what work is being done to spin CW?
what work is being done to spin CCW?

gravity does work downward on both the right side and left side equally if the center-of-gravity of the spoke is on the axle.  if the center-of-gravity is on the left side, the wheel will spin CCW; and if the center-of-gravity is on the right side, the wheel will spin CW.  the goal is to unbalance the work done by gravity on each side of the axle by using magnets and shielding as both anti-gravity devices and center-of-gravity shifters; limiting the work done by gravity on the left side, and increasing the work done by gravity on the right side.

people say it is very possible to spin a horizontal disc almost 360 degrees using only permanent magnets, and then they hit a sticky-spot.

one way of looking at this is: it should be possible use the additional work of gravity, applied in a consistent and unbalanced fashion, on a vertical propellor to acquire the work necessary to overcome the sticky-spot.

another way of looking at it is: using the work of magnets and gravity, applied in a consistent and unbalanced fashion, should be able to overcome the frictional forces that stop a propellor from turning endlessly.

1. the use of the repelling force of the lower-left static magnet to decrease the work done by gravity on the left side.

2. the use of the repelling force of the lower-left static magnet to decrease the work done by gravity left side by shifting the center-of-gravity from the left to the right side of the axle.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2008, 12:43:35 PM by 2b »

Offline 2b

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Re: new? magnet/gravity motor
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2008, 01:01:13 AM »
SHIELDING
=========
magnetic shielding must be a magnetic material so that the magnetic fields get trapped in the material.  if you take a sheet of steel, you will notice magnets will stick to each side regardless of their polarity.  but if the shielding is thin enough, and the magnetic fields strong enough, there should be a balance where similar poles on each side don't repel OR attract because enough of the magnetic field is getting thru the shield to prevent the shield from acting like a magnetic material.

using shielding, it is possible to create highly directional magnetic fields which can do work in very specific directions, and not other directions.


non-magnetic materials act like air - they don't stop magnetic fields whatsoever.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2008, 01:16:30 PM by 2b »

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Re: new? magnet/gravity motor
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2008, 01:01:13 AM »
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Offline helmut

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Re: new? magnet/gravity motor
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2008, 08:49:16 AM »
@2b
Thanks for sharing
Good idea

helmut

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: new? magnet/gravity motor
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2008, 03:21:28 AM »
you've sold me on the idea....  i don't see any 'obvious' problems here, and im willing to give it a try.
seeing as we've hit a "dead end" on the Tri-Force experiments, and there's not really anything new to work on at the moment....

so i guess this will be my new project.

i've made some "adjustments" to the design, to fit my own ideas on the matter. see .jpg below

grey lines are just to mark my center lines...  green is supposed to represent the magnetic shielding.
i havent given much thought yet to the "sliding mechanism" of the rotor magnets, if that proves to be necessary.

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Re: new? magnet/gravity motor
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2008, 03:21:28 AM »
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Offline seekingknowledge

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Re: new? magnet/gravity motor
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2008, 12:02:47 PM »
Hi all ive thought simler to this and im glad some of you are trying it cos i dont really have the tools or things to do so, i dont want to be negative but on the right side when the magnet is being pulled up it will get stuck in attraction mode to the external magnet , the magnet would then have to weigh so much to break itself free of the attraction and if it does so weigh that much then it would not lift up in the first place.

You mention using sheilding thats a good idea on the left side tho i think if most the thrust makes the magnet go inwards it will be less upwards, and on the right side when the magnet goes into attraction mode what sheilding material would you use?  sheilding to my knowledge is usally tin or some other metallic meterial and is mainly to use on like poles cos with like poles the magnets have repulsion + attraction from the tin etc so you get a neutral effect but with opposite poles the magnets have attraction + attraction so you will only get attraction, if there are non metallic meterials used for sheilding what are they?

I dont mean to be negative truley i just thought i would point it out please correct me if im wrong i think it is great what you guys are doing and dont let it put you off the idea still has room to build on.

Offline martinzurix

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Re: new? magnet/gravity motor
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2008, 12:18:55 PM »
this tupe of dewices never could work because there are no energy input .

if one piece of something drop down you need energy to put it up agen .  you need to breake gravitu if you want get weight back with les energy used.  you lose energy not only to move up and down weight but to move horizontaly too .  thus is why this grawity pendelum systems not work. and similar is problem with magnetic permamanet motors you need energy tu put something in magnetic field . maybe only real shelding from one direction , holy grail...

only way to achewe overunity it get energy from our only energy suply sun,  to rezonate on natural frequencies that all around

sore for my horible english

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Re: new? magnet/gravity motor
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2008, 12:18:55 PM »
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Offline Spider

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Re: new? magnet/gravity motor
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2008, 12:30:10 PM »
I have build this exact device and it didnt work.
The repulsion of the lower magnet is bigger then the gain of the shifting weights.
Another thing is that if your give it a good spin, the centrifugal forces stop the magnets from shifting, the just stay on the outside.

Greetings Rene

Offline Low-Q

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Re: new? magnet/gravity motor
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2008, 12:51:14 PM »
i have had this idea for quite a while, and though i haven't read every post made by everyone, i have read 100's of related posts but never saw this idea, and was wondering if anyone else already knows the 'problems' of such a device.  see the attached JPG.

basically, the propeller or wheel spins clockwise.  as shown, at the top of the image, the outer static magnet will pull the cylindrical magnet up the spoke somewhat, while at the same time, at the bottom of the image, the outer static magnet will push the cylindrical magnet up the spoke somewhat; keeping the right side of the propeller/wheel over-weighted.  stainless steel can be used to shield magnetic fields when like poles are coming at each other, or when opposite poles are leaving each other; and gravity adds energy to the right-side over-weighted propeller/wheel, and the lower outside magnet boosts the magnet on the spoke inwards and upwards.

it seems to me that if everything was arranged properly, and any necessary shielding was used properly, the 'magnetic bessler wheel' should work, because there are more forces acting to make the propeller/wheel spin clockwise than the total number of forces that are in opposition.

i don't have the material at this time to try it, but if i did, i would, and i will when i can - but i thought i'd share this in case anyone does have the materials.  just a good chop-stick, a nail, and 2 cylindrical magnets, and 2 bar magnets.


I think you also will figure out how it suppose to go counter clockwise too. There is no force more in one direction than the other direction, so it will not run.

Or simply put: Magnetmotors simply do not work due to the nature that permanent magnets are - yes permanently magnetized. They do work only if the magnetism in them change - and who is doing that? Energy!

Br.

Vidar

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Re: new? magnet/gravity motor
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2008, 12:51:14 PM »
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Offline erickdt

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Re: new? magnet/gravity motor
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2008, 06:07:27 PM »
I have build this exact device and it didnt work.
The repulsion of the lower magnet is bigger then the gain of the shifting weights.
Another thing is that if your give it a good spin, the centrifugal forces stop the magnets from shifting, the just stay on the outside.

Greetings Rene

x2. I too built this exact arrangment and it doesn't work.

Offline Rusty_Springs

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Re: new? magnet/gravity motor
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2008, 07:25:04 AM »
Hi All
Yes I was about to say before someone else did that it wouldn't work because the repoltion would be to strong, there is a way you can use the Trigate with a gravity design and thats if you have 8 arms and a weight on each arm except one, the weight will be the Trigates roller magnet, you have the Trigate setup from 11 to 12:30 when a arm gets to 11 it drops a roller off the roller moves along to 12:30 and drops onto the arm that had no roller the moves the arm down to 1 and the opposite arm up to 11 where it drops the next roller onto the Trigate and the system starts again, its only moving from 12 to 1 every turn but its moving and should keep moving aslong as there is no magnetic interfearance.
Take Care All
Graham

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Re: new? magnet/gravity motor
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2008, 07:25:04 AM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: new? magnet/gravity motor
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2008, 07:46:51 AM »
if i understood what he was saying....

the strength/distance of the stator magnets would be such that is was strong enough to 'slide' the magnet towards the outside of the arm, but not strong enough to pull the mass of the wheel to a stop.

the shielding was not so much to prevent repulsion/attraction, but rather to direct that repulsion + attraction along the radial-line of the 'arm'. offsetting the balance of the wheel, while allowing gravity to pull the wheel in the direction of rotation


Offline 2b

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Re: new? magnet/gravity motor
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2008, 11:37:16 PM »
> you've sold me on the idea....  i don't see any 'obvious' problems here, and im willing to give it a try. seeing as we've hit a "dead end" on the Tri-Force experiments, and there's not really anything new to work on at the moment....

wow - great.  i am an aeronautical engineer - not that it applies much, but i will try to be helpful if possible.  i have some magnets - but not cylinders, and i don't use credit cards, and i am dealing with other things right now, so it is a project on hold for me right now, but i will offer whatever support i can, and i will try to clarify the forces involved in case it helps.

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: new? magnet/gravity motor
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2008, 12:01:45 AM »
Hi All
Yes I was about to say before someone else did that it wouldn't work because the repoltion would be to strong, there is a way you can use the Trigate with a gravity design and thats if you have 8 arms and a weight on each arm except one, the weight will be the Trigates roller magnet, you have the Trigate setup from 11 to 12:30 when a arm gets to 11 it drops a roller off the roller moves along to 12:30 and drops onto the arm that had no roller the moves the arm down to 1 and the opposite arm up to 11 where it drops the next roller onto the Trigate and the system starts again, its only moving from 12 to 1 every turn but its moving and should keep moving aslong as there is no magnetic interfearance.
Take Care All
Graham

graham, i can picture this in my head.  WoW! if only we had discovered the Tri-Force BEFORE the chas campbell wheel, seems like this could have been the 'missing' component...

You should visit that thread and get an idea for his wheel design - its pretty much what you described - minus the tri-gate. it didnt work of course,. but it also didnt have a magnetic gate-array helping it along..

Offline Rusty_Springs

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Re: new? magnet/gravity motor
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2008, 12:26:41 AM »
Hi sm0ky2
I just can't see how it would get past the repelling magnet,ofcause you know balanced magnets cancel each other out so if the attraction was equel to the repultion both top and bottom magnets will come together but in this case there not equel because both magnets on the arms are down so the repultion comming in is at its strongest and the attraction comming in is at its weakest, as I see it both magnets would have to be lifted before they get to the repelling magnet stage and this would give you stonger attraction but then you have the draw back by the attracting magnet being at its strongest comming out holding the arm up.
I agree with you sm0ky2 in the case of 20th june, how can you move a weight from 7 to 1 with out using more energy, well there is one way I can think of and thats using some gas lighter the air, you have two containers on a rotating arm one full the other empty the full one will drop to the bottom of the rotation, you open a valve that lets the gas run through a tube up to the top container this makes the top one heavier and the rotor rotates half a turn as long as you close the valve once the top ones full, the you open the valve again the the process starts again, if you had a system that opens and shuts the valve at the right time I can't see how it wouldn't work but I think it would be very slow.
I have also did some tests on comming up into my Trigate and found for the Trigate system to work as a gravity wheel like I said in my last post you have to set the gate up so the last magnet comming in is at 9 and the last one going out is at 3 this means the magnets moving up to 11 will start attracting in at 9 and the magnets going out will be repelling from 1 to 3, this means no repel back comming in and no draw back going out, also with the attract in you maybe able to level out the track and drop the magnet off at 1 instead of 12:30 meaning no movment uphill.
Sorry I went on a bit Take Care All
Graham

 

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