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Author Topic: I don't want to sound like a jerk...  (Read 45920 times)

Offline Elvis Oswald

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Re: I don't want to sound like a jerk...
« Reply #45 on: May 18, 2006, 08:25:15 AM »
Valveman,

On your transformer experiment... the secondary isn't holding electric current that long, the resistance would cause it to be lost.  But it could hold magnetic current, and that would explain the current in the primary when you unshort it (the magnetic field would collapse.)

The emory coil - aka the Leedskalnin perpetual motion holder proves that this is possible.
The u-shaped iron is not a permanent magnet... but can be magnetized... and closing the loop will contain the magnetic field.  So we know this works - at least with the iron bars.

It's also a fact that Cu wire becomes magnetized when electric current flows through it - though the amount may depend on several factors.  Given this factor... plus the PMH experiment... the odds are pretty good that is what's happening with your wire in the secondary coil.

Pass a compass near the secondary while it's sitting there for the week... I bet it turns.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: I don't want to sound like a jerk...
« Reply #45 on: May 18, 2006, 08:25:15 AM »

Offline valveman

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Re: I don't want to sound like a jerk...
« Reply #46 on: May 18, 2006, 05:49:51 PM »
Hmm I don't know and when I don't know something I try out an experiment.  Myself and another engineer are going to put together an experiment to see if and how this works.  Will give details and perhaps pics when we are done.

Valveman

jake

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Re: I don't want to sound like a jerk...
« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2006, 01:22:40 PM »
Jack,

I sent you an e-mail yesterday.  If you don't get it post a repy here and I'll resend.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: I don't want to sound like a jerk...
« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2006, 01:22:40 PM »
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Offline Gregory

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Re: I don't want to sound like a jerk...
« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2006, 07:06:08 PM »
Quote
If you think about a permanent magnet, it in it's self is an overunity or perpetual motion machine.   After it is charged it will almost forever continue to produce a magnetic flow.   Stick up notes on your fridge forever.  There is energy flowing through a permanent magnet 24 hours a day, and in the case of rare earth magnet should continue for over 1000 years.  You can use this energy continuesly and it will allways be there.

All you need to do is figure out how to use it in a motor and you have extra energy for as long as you want it.
Quote
Well one more attempt.    You menchend that a rop would be considered to do work if it were holding the 50 lb weight.   Well you are wrong again.  In order for the rope to hold the 50 lb weight up you would need to make a fisical connection from the weight to the rope, a knot or something.

Now using a magnet to hold up this weight there is no fisical connection to the weight.  Only an invisable field, that some call Gauss, however I prefer to call it a continous band of energy from the magnet.  This magnet holding up the weight with out a fisical connection is doing work.  Maybe the magnet isen't but the invisable field is.

You need to starting thinking for yourself and not pay so much attention to books that some proffesor wrought setting at a desk.  Yes there are definitions for energy, work, power, and all else.  Just because some proffesor give things a deffinition that does not allways mean they are accurate. It sometimes pays to think outside the box.

That fridg magnet holding up a picture is doing work.  Maybe not by your standards or some proffesors standards,  But by my standards.  One thing that is allways denied is the fact that a magnet is in itself perpetuial motion.
The magnetic field that continues to rotate around and into a magnet never stops.  You never need to input energy to it to keep it going, it just keeps on moving by itself.  All you need to do is lasso that energy, put it to work, and you have free energy.

Hello Jack!

Let me congratulate you first! Great work! It looks like really art for me.
I never try to immagine a person like you, I never thought before a person like you is exist somewhere. I wonder, it is really good to hear from you.

The thing, what makes me so wonder is simple. I totally agree with you, with almost everything what you post here. I have got the same thinking about magnets, and the same viewpoints as you, and this is very simple.

I agree with you, a magnet is in itself a ?perpetual motion? or ?free energy?, by the way I don?t like these words, because they are became shabby due to many things.
Physics is very accurate in calculations, equations, and numbers, but not too accurate in concepts and definitions. Unfortunately concepts and definitions are the foot-stones of science.

I just write to you, because I want to give an interesting viewpoint to you.
You and Gonzo don?t agree in some points, so at first sight there is a cleft between you and others. But, actually this cleft doesn?t exist! This cleft never existed.

You said, you have motors run at 120% to 500% efficiency. Some people thinks this is very good, but others think this is not good because this is impossible. They are all right from their own viewpoints, and really all right, I can agree with all of them in parts of these things, but I personally think no one of them see what is the reality of this, and why we have two groups of people, seemingly enemies of each other, but in fact they aren?t.

This dissimilarity only caused by the difference of their incomplete (wrong) viewpoints. When one day their viewpoints are become completed, the two groups will become one.

Offline Gregory

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Re: I don't want to sound like a jerk...
« Reply #49 on: May 19, 2006, 07:08:41 PM »
Some people refer to the efficiency and the coefficient of performance, and they are think these are two different things, but I think they are wrong. Yes, maybe it seems to be useful to separate this into two part for some reason? But in the other hand? Why do we use two different concept to define and describe only one category?
This is not a good approach, and seems to be unscientific for me. This is illogical. Two concept for one category? This approach reminds me of the lack of ability to correctly describe and understand what happens in the category. When once we all understand these things, we don?t need to refer to two concepts, because we will see everything in one.

You said Jack, you have a motor, which runs on few hundreds percent efficiency, and yes, when you include only the electrical input and the electrical or mechanical output of your machine, you are very right, all right? Within this calculation it?s really runs on 400% efficiency. But? You must see, when you include only the electric input (8 watts), and the electric output (32 watts)? You didn?t include everything in your calculation, and this is the point, which causes the people to dividing into two groups.

Well, I just want to show, when you or anybody refer to efficiency, he must include everything and EVERYTHING in the calculation. Every kind of input, and every kind of output, when there are more. In your case, you must include all of the energy closed inside the permanent magnets, and when you include it, finally you see the efficiency of you machines appear under 100%. But this is not a bad thing? This is not mean you didn?t create a great thing. This is not mean your machine isn?t capable for self running. On the contrary this means your machine really can run by itself. It?s a self sustaining machine, which runs on its own energy, but not on its all energy the machine has, because it simply can?t use all of the energy to produce useful work, because you need airgaps to make the machine running. But when you operate with airgaps, you don?t use all of the energy the magnets have. I think you can easily understand this, if you thinking about it for a while?

The calculation:
When you do this calculation, you must consider time values for the input / output, /time.

The Input.
Input 1: You put x quantity of permanent magnets in your motor. And every magnet have z amount of energy closed inside the magnet, circulating continously.
[This is a locked ?electric energy?, something like Leedskalnin said. A magnet is something like a ?special battery? The ?magnetic currents? locked inside the material somehow, and circulating together on their own tracks every time. Science calls it flux.]

Input 2: You have 8 watts of electrical input.

Now, just multiply x by z, and add the 8 watts of electrical input to it with the correct method. Now you have the overall input of your machine. And the x multipled by z is much more than the 8 watts of electric input.

The Output.
Measure the output of your machine in the same way. Include everything in the calculation.
If you attach your motor to a generator you have two different outputs. One is the electric, and the other is the mechanical. (the machine still have some mechanical output, torque)

Perhaps it is difficult to measure the overall output in some ways, but if it will be done correctly, I think finally you found the efficiency of your machine below 100%, so it is not overunity. (As a pure permanent magnetic motor itself is still not overunity, because you can?t use all the energy the magnets have. You put in x*z energy in the machine when you put in the magnets, but you only can use (x*z)-a ; where a is the ?loss? caused by the air gaps, the geometrical construction, the friction, etc.)
But It is a self sustaining machine, which really produces much more electrical energy output than you put in, and it?s a great thing! And it?s very possible, because from this viewpoint I write, it?s not violate the law of conservation of energy, and the basic laws of physics.

How the magnets exactly works, and what happens when they inducing current in a coil it is another question. I can write lots of pages about my ideas and explanations, but I think it?s useless. Most of the people usually don?t want to understand me. It doesn?t matter how many times I say the same. They usually simply refuse my ideas, and maybe they think I?m an idiot. So, I wrote these things especially for you Jack.

I hope you can undertand my viewpoint, and it can be useful for you somehow. Perhaps one day you get a new idea, what is more improve your machine.

Keep up your good work! And please create a self-running machine, and show it for us, while it?s running on its own energy.

Best wishes,
Greg

P.S.: If I have success with my permanent magnetic motor experiments, I also show it.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: I don't want to sound like a jerk...
« Reply #49 on: May 19, 2006, 07:08:41 PM »
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Offline JackH

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Re: I don't want to sound like a jerk...
« Reply #50 on: May 21, 2006, 10:10:47 PM »
Hello Greg & Gregory,

Well I think that you and I do think in the same ways at times.  And yes after explaining the power input the way you have, I guess I dont have overunity.  By using the power of the permanent magnets along with the electrical input, you could very easley guess that overunity may never be obtained.

However,  Most people do not like the Idea of a permanent magnet producing usable power or energy.  Most will refuse to beleive it.  So to tell them you are using them to operate a motor is like pulling teeth, they just refuse to have any part of it.

The 2 in. dia. permanent magnets in my motor are actually producing over 3/4's or more of the total energy to operate it.  The electric energy is producing the rest, so there you have it, my motor in reality is not an overunity motor.  Even if this motor is running at over %500 eficicency, actually if you added up the total energy from the magnets along with the electrical energy, it may just be breaking even at %100.

Thanks,   Later,,,,JackH

jake

  • Guest
Re: I don't want to sound like a jerk...
« Reply #51 on: May 22, 2006, 06:07:53 PM »
Jack,

I want to repeat my offer to help/validate testing.  The only way you are ever going to get skeptics to believe is to demonstrate your motor under controlled testing that is independently verified.

I will come to your facility, you can come to mine, we can meet somewhere in the middle, whatever you want.

Name your conditions.  I only want to be able to verify the measurements, calibrate the measuring equipment, etc. to be sure the measurements and calculations are valid.  I would also be more than willing to provide a means of connecting a generator to your motor and add the required circuitry to convert the output to the proper levels to drive the motor and self run it.

There is no better way to convince people than to show them.

I am willing to sign non-disclosures or any document you want.  I don't want or need to see inside your motors.  I don't need to touch your motors.  I don't need to be alone with your motors, etc.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: I don't want to sound like a jerk...
« Reply #51 on: May 22, 2006, 06:07:53 PM »
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Offline JackH

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Re: I don't want to sound like a jerk...
« Reply #52 on: May 22, 2006, 11:46:51 PM »
Hello jake,

Jake I fully except your offer,  I would rather it took place in your shop, If thats OK with you.

However I do not have the small motor that produced the .021 hp at this time. It has been moved to northern Ohio and placed in a safe deposit box.

I am currently working on a much larger model that will soon be ready for testing, If every thing goes wright.   This motor I am hopping will produce around 1/2 to 1 hp, and will be much better for testing along with trying to match a generator to it.   I do want to tell you, currently I am working on building the most efficient motor I can build and at this time I am not at all enterested in creating a self running unit.  The motor needs to come first. I hope you can see that working in a small machine shop by myself, it takes time to manufacture a motor, no mater what kind it is.

I was very disapointed of the last motor I put togather.  It was a two valve motor that I figured would be the best way to go.   However I had forgotten a very importent point that metal magnetically saturates at a given point.  Well the two valves were producing over 3,000 pound of magnetic pull(gauss).  The rotor just was not of the size to handle this amount of gauss.  I am currently using some parts from this motor and some new parts to put togather a single valve motor, takes time.

I still have your phone number and will call when the motor is ready for testing.    jake I think I asked you before and never got an anwser,  What kind of equipment do you have for testing HP from a low RPM motor.  Do you have a dino or are you just going to use some kind of torque device.  You probably already know that to test HP you need to pull the motor down to a sertan rpm and at the same time messure ft pounds of torque.  How do you intend to do this.   Also have you got very accurate input power testing equipment.   This motor is a DC motor that does not continually use current. You need a meter that will read pulse DC current and give an accurate input watts reading.  In order to find out how efficient this motor is we need watts in and watts out.

The place in NC. that one of my share holders wants to have it tested has a test dino, that accually gives you a graff showing input watts and output watts along with HP through the full rpm range of the motor.  Can you do this at your shop.

When you get done, what am I going to have to take with me to show others like this message board.  It's going to need to be good stuff to prove that a motor is running over %100 efficiency.  With all the skeptics around, will they beleive your test methouds.

Later,,,,,JackH



jake

  • Guest
Re: I don't want to sound like a jerk...
« Reply #53 on: May 23, 2006, 01:22:50 AM »
My shop is easier for me as well, but I will do the travelling if it makes it easier for you.  I get to your part of the country on a regular basis.

How we test will depend on what size of device we will be testing, which is why I would like to examine your test setup first if possible.  I don't currently have a dyno.  We have small motors we can backdrive and generate with.  We can create a small dyno if the motor is tiny (.021 hp, for example).  There are many creative ways we can load the motor to get an idea of how much power the motor is producing.  I have all kinds of gizmos around here.  I guarantee you we can come up with something.  If we don't have it there is a large surplus electronics place in town that will.

We have equipment to collect test data to a computer that we can hook up to monitor input voltage and current if necessary.  If your pulses are very short induration (less than milliseconds) I may have to check what sample rate I can do with my current equipment.  I have an oscilloscope here, but it doesn't have storage capability, so I would like to use our computer based data collection stuff.  If the signals are too fast we will use the scope and do digital pictures.  We can collect the data and integrate the input power based on the pulse durations and magnitudes.

If your dyno is of appropriate size for your motors we can use it and calibrate it to be sure it is correct.  What you described in another post sounds perfectly valid for testing the output power.  All we have to do is verify the scale, etc.  Depending on the range required, I have a scale that is good for about 2 grams resolution up to about 500 grams.  We have other larger scales, but if the motor is very small I don't think we will have to go bigger.

I also have machining capacity.  I have a 3 axis CNC mill that is empty a lot of the time.  I can only handle non-ferrous metals and plastics, however.  If you have complex aluminum milling or plastic part that needs done I might be able to help when I have time.

>>The place in NC. that one of my share holders wants to have it tested has a test dino, that accually gives you a graff showing input watts and output watts along with HP through the full rpm range of the motor.  Can you do this at your shop.

I don't currently have equipment to do this, but we can simultaneously collect 8 analog points to computer files and create graphs from the collected data.

(The thing I like about hooking up a generator and self running is it puts all questions to rest without even worrying about numbers.  If it self runs, it is in effect putting out more power than the electrical power you are putting in.)  All the numbers in the world won't be as convincing as a motor-generator set that is self running!!!!

Since your motors are capable of several hundred percent over unity, we shouldn't have to split hairs.  If we are within 5 or 10 percent on something running 250 to 500% over unity the numbers will be statistically valid.  If we self-run there is no valid argument against what you are doing.  It is only a matter of how much at that point!

After we test, if the numbers look good to you, I will have my P.E. certify everything, and we can post the results in any format you want.  We can also have them dated and notarized if you would like.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: I don't want to sound like a jerk...
« Reply #53 on: May 23, 2006, 01:22:50 AM »
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Offline Gregory

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Re: I don't want to sound like a jerk...
« Reply #54 on: May 25, 2006, 01:34:40 AM »
Hello JackH!

I think you have the best thinking to do this all along. You can.
To use only the pull/attraction force between the magnets is a very good idea, I also have it. This is the most simple and the best idea to avoid any problem about demagnetization. In this pull case the magnets will "never" demagnetize in normal use, they keep their standard magnetization level as long as it wanted.

I agree with you, the most important at now to build your best motor. The motor must come first, so just build it with serenity, doesn't matter how many time it takes. :)
But I also agree with Jake: If you once make it self-run this proves everything, and become (almost) unquestionable, and other measurements are only needed to show more accurate data and results, if you want.

And after one day, when people can see a motor runnning by itself, with public and correct measurements... It doesn't matter more they believe it or not, because they can't refuse it any longer... (Otherwise as we talked, it's not violate the laws of conservation of energy.)

Wish you a good and pleasant work!
And hope to hear your success soon.

This is very exciting...


Best Regards,
Greg

Offline masster

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Re: I don't want to sound like a jerk...
« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2010, 06:18:41 PM »
hi
I invite you all to vote on this poll in our forum:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=9432.0
The poll is named A Morality Issue and I will certainly value your commentaries.
Because I think we should also have a look at the human factor in this "free energy" equation.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: I don't want to sound like a jerk...
« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2010, 06:18:41 PM »
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