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Author Topic: Roll on the 20th June  (Read 1314680 times)

Offline The Eskimo Quinn

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #150 on: May 02, 2008, 11:41:31 PM »
I must say the answers on this page are now 95 percent of the wheel, good to see you get the photo was the weights, and yes they are what is moved. i will give you another tip you have all missed for free this will really make you smile.

but first, you can now see why i have fed the information as i have, so you can work it out yourself should anything happen to me or the site (thought that this site was toast yesterday, just overload i guess)

ok i have sent a letter to oak to post.

but here is todays tip that you will really love, why doe the machine keeping spinning even before the weight is fired???????????????? because ther are more than 1 rod and at least tow ends are always over the balance point hence the reason for three set of power rods not 1 or 4.

whilst you are struggling with slight friction variations you forget an entire falling load is already past 12 oclcock when the next is waiting for firing, or is there even more than that?

as for arcs of magnets around the base and metal rods, no, these things i contemplated originally, and did not work on the small machine.

anyway, you now see this was no game, and you are teaching yourselves, not being programmed to believe what sounds like a good story, what you have worked out you did without me "telling you this is how it is" So when someone tells you that i am full of shit you can tell them, that archer simply gave you a tool box, and you can work out truth for yourself thanx.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #150 on: May 02, 2008, 11:41:31 PM »

Offline Rusty_Springs

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #151 on: May 02, 2008, 11:49:53 PM »
Hi All
With what I just posted theres no need to move a weight up and down you just have to tilt the rotor arm on every half turn or let it go 2 turns before you tilt it.
The hinge was a example of how it could work with next to no energy but I would think it would be on something like a gyroscope.
Ofcause I could be totally wrong but like you said Sean it is fun trying to work it out weather it works or not, I'm having fun and I'm one thats a sceptic and thought smoky2 was right in most things he said.
Take Care All
Graham

Offline exxcomm0n

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #152 on: May 02, 2008, 11:57:09 PM »
Hmmmmmm.........

I thought about the wheel being tilted @ 45 degrees and that lessening the work the arm had to do.
Instead of the wheel being at 90 degrees and the whole time fighting full gravity for the full distance with the weight, having the wheel tilted and having the weight stay the same, but the amount of energy to move it being less because it's moving like an airplane instead of a rocket.
Same distance, same mass, but using gravity to create lift like a airplane wing instead of trying to completely oppose it like a rocket engine.

(Bad analogy, there is no "lift", just less opposition to gravity.)

But from the build he's doing on his page, the axle will hold the wheel 90 degrees from the platform the stand rests on.

I think this is part of the deal, but not the whole ball of wax.

And while I'm breaking the the vow of silence I invoked yesterday.......:D

Archer was talking about how this might not work the best in space.
From what I've been told about space (not having had the chance to play in that atmosphere yet) the only way a machine like this could work outside of a solar system is if the ship were under heavy thrust equaling 1 gravity, and then only for the time it was able to keep steady 1G thrust in free fall or away from gravitational attraction..

...and that's only if the "floor" is a plane 90 degrees opposite the thrust, the atmosphere is earth standard pressure, ad infinitum.

I wonder if the space version would be a rod with springs on either end and a ratcheting weight in the middle.
At take-off the weight slides back on the ratchet and compresses the spring until it (the weight)  overcomes inertia.
That compressed spring is energy. It's not free, it came from thrust, but it's still not "lost" to the thrust.
It's "reclaimed".
Deceleration does the same thing.

If the springs were "loose" it would create even more energy because ac/de-celleration mass is spring + weight, instead of just weight.
 
Archer, yes...I fudged on my proposal, but you didn't comment one way or the other about it so I figured I hadn't been the one to torque you off the most. ;)
I waited for Christmas to open my presents, but it didn't keep me from looking at their size, weight, and listening to what theyt sounded like when shook.

And thinking about things like this is just........fun!

P.S. I think aerodynamics might have a say in this too.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #152 on: May 02, 2008, 11:57:09 PM »
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Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #153 on: May 03, 2008, 12:16:39 AM »
but here is todays tip that you will really love, why doe the machine keeping spinning even before the weight is fired???????????????? because ther are more than 1 rod and at least tow ends are always over the balance point hence the reason for three set of power rods not 1 or 4.

whilst you are struggling with slight friction variations you forget an entire falling load is already past 12 oclcock when the next is waiting for firing, or is there even more than that?

Yep agree here that there is no need to think in 90, 180 etc degree firing as just on the basic principle of the clock we are talking 30 degree's and 6 of those increments can utilise gravity.

Will respect your pace Archer, but wish 20th June would speed up :)

Cheers

Sean.


Offline ramset

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #154 on: May 03, 2008, 12:37:03 AM »
This room is chock full of talent    from all over the world     what an absolute privilege to see you guy's work and to learn   Arcer this is to good to be true [just this part [teaching and learning]  THANKS!!!!!   CHET

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #154 on: May 03, 2008, 12:37:03 AM »
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Offline oak

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #155 on: May 03, 2008, 12:38:28 AM »
(Here's what Archer sent me when he couldn't post earlier -- I didn't want to post it all without further clarification from him.  All in this post after this sentence is Archer's.)

there was a picture drawn of the dam wheel described on the site with a question, the answer is, you only put in one hundred kilos lift from 7 to 1, yet you keep thinking your power down is 100 kilos, your power is the ten ton wheel you just turned with a minimum torque at friction point of one ton. it does not matter what the math says, that wheel in the story is connected to a high powered generator like any hydro station, and if the wheel turns so does the generator.

work backwards, do you think a zero weight wheel that only has the two guys can possibly turn a hydroelectric generator??? if you believe newton the answer is yes and would be false, even if both stood on the end of a zero weight turbine they could not break the 1 ton torque of start point friction could they?ever?, but according also to newton, with the ten ton wheel the only added power is the guy on the end, yet it does break the 1 ton torque start point.

which for newton to be correct could not happen, or as in the story, the car tyre cannot turn.

so if weight on the end of the arm is equal only to that weight x gravity and distance bullshit bullshit bullshit, how is it my ten ton turbine can move with 100kgs and newtons cannot???????

existing environment!!!!!!.

go back to the helium ballon, when all exists and all is built but the straw that breaks the camels back, then you only need take your cup.

man has spent endless hours trying to build a new machine that does something different, when the machine was always there since the first gravity controlled generator, the hydro, it showed us in times of low water flow, it still turned. i simply took it back to the edge of the start point and added 100 kgs to tip it into rolling again.

for those who cannot understand why i destroyed the first machine, i did not want be responsible for all the death in the arab countries that will follow with nothing to contrbute to the world, starvation for the already poor will be almost instaneous as the weathly set out to protect what they have knowing there is no more to come.

Then i saw the pictures of the wealth if dubai and decided that i was not resposible for the poor management of that wealth and the lack of infrastructure for the people overidden by the dcadence of one city that makes new york look like a slum. 

make no mistake, people are writing that i am claiminmg to be some saviour, i come to destory what is, not fucking save this pile of shit you call civilization.
this planet is fucked, i simply want a new one.

I nicknamed the machine the way i did for that reason, otherwise i would have called it the fucking fluffy bunny slippers happy ending machine.

for those who cant wait if you were to copy and paste this thread and the site even as it is now, you should still get it even if something did happen to me.

if you dont understand the dam wheel working with a ton weight verses newtons zero weight wheel not being able to do the job even though according to his laws, 100 kgs x gravity is the same power. then you will only be copying the machine not understanding why.


Offline oak

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #156 on: May 03, 2008, 12:42:48 AM »
By the way Sean, I could be wrong, but I think the weights in the photo are the same size as each other, but the camera is not being held directly above them (but at an angle) so they appear to be of different sizes.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #156 on: May 03, 2008, 12:42:48 AM »
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Offline exxcomm0n

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #157 on: May 03, 2008, 12:46:00 AM »
Oh SH..............ugar!

We're (I'm) still missing something and on the build page he says it SPECIFICALLY!

Quote
The rear of the floor plate will be heavily weighted to counter the weight of the arms which ride over each other protruding forward, it is "NOT" a spoke wheel where arms join in the centre.

Now the thing to think about (for me) is if the arm travels a full 360 degrees, or if it's even going to be  near the center.

So........he's said that gravity pulls both FORWARD and down, and the tubes protrude forward

(I REALLY need to look @ this like a test and read the instructions first. It's like the test in school that starts "Read the instructions COMPLETELY before starting!", having a paragraph of instructions telling you put circles and arrows all over the page ending with the sentence, "Disregard all the previous instructions and write your name in the upper right hand corner and give the test to the teacher".)
For all intensive purposes, it IS a test that gets graded in front of the class June 20th.

I challenge myself to completely read everything he's said, take notes of everything I deem pertinent to the device, and then experiment for a day. If I get no results go back and read again to see if I think I missed anything and go experiment for a day again no matter if I found something or not.

Now to find a circular eraser and some toothpicks or some pixie stix (american powdered sugar candy sold in a tube) and a pin wheel.
I think there'll be hinges involved too.

I have to get back to reading!

[Side note: About the idea of the wheel at 45 degrees. That has possibilities.

Offline The Eskimo Quinn

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #158 on: May 03, 2008, 12:48:40 AM »
I feel at this point i should again point out you have evreything bar one item, the satellite effect and the reason the machine worls so easily i must say although i have not tried it, torquee says what you have should work without it. it is one of those logic puzzles i just see, but was after i had built the first one.

But you must remember this is the missing point, go back to the poor old satellite trying to hit the earth but can't quite get there, be being pulled "all" the time to fall. unfortunately if you get this i won't confirm it until the 20th, but you need this key.

all the worlds a stage????

all the world's a flea circus, and the planet need to scratch.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #158 on: May 03, 2008, 12:48:40 AM »
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Offline Dusty

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #159 on: May 03, 2008, 01:00:28 AM »
What if the rods are stainless tubing and the discs are aluminum and a magnet slides back and forth within each tube.  I'm thinking it works off of eddy current drag, as in the magnet moves slow while
going past the aluminum area then speeds up once past that area to get to the other side.  These three tubes would be arranged in the asterisk symmetrical formation.

I'm sure you all have played around with dropping a magnet down a copper or aluminum tube.  It seems like anti-gravity watching it take so long for the magnet to get through to the other side, but it's  just eddy current drag.

I don't know about my idea, just a guess.

Offline exxcomm0n

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #160 on: May 03, 2008, 01:13:02 AM »
@ Dusty

It's just as good as anyone elses.

There's only one person that "knows" and he's not telling until June 20th.

I'm just having fun with the puzzle. It helps that "solving" the puzzle will have @ least as much impact as a thermonuclear weapon or other political device on life on earth.

Give it a shot man!

BTW I just used that "eddy current" example today with a ham operator/EE buddy of mine discussing HHO fractioning methods. He didn't know about that effect.
_I_ didn't even think about applying it to the puzzle @ hand!

Nice thinking "outside the box"!

Now back to reading...........

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #160 on: May 03, 2008, 01:13:02 AM »
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Offline Tinker

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #161 on: May 03, 2008, 01:16:25 AM »
He talks about small amounts of weight shift are all that is needed to create an imbalanced wheel.

The weights are standing up on the shaft in the pic of the rods and weight
s/magnets, are not sliding down the shaft.

IS He is shifting the WHOLE ROD W/WEIGHTS assy with the electromagnet and using stops on the rods on both sides of the hub to adjust the throw.

HMM

Be well
Tinker

Never mind that won't work with 3 rods/tubes in the asterisk configuration.

HEAD SCRATCH
« Last Edit: May 03, 2008, 01:50:11 AM by Tinker »

Offline ramset

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #162 on: May 03, 2008, 01:52:13 AM »
Gentlemen  I was quite concerned last night and this morning when i could not access the site   made me think how vulnerable I am to being cut off from this venue   I didn't like it [scary] we need to put in safegaurds  IM thinking about pm my personal contact to those i know [or trust in this forum] any ideas ???? Chet  PS I didn't put this smiley thingy on my post I didn't know Stephan had auto smiley                                                                                                 anyway im off to the movies[Stephans Thrapp interview]

Offline badassdjbynight

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #163 on: May 03, 2008, 02:32:23 AM »
I'm new to this forum - registered today.  Very interested in the topic.  Very curious.  Very skeptical but not a jerk about it. (I'll do no name-calling).  It's also important to point out that I'm not a "rocket scientist" or any other kind of scientist or mathematician.  So my speculations are probably not going to be very scientific.  But I not a moron either.  (hopefully)

Archer.. I appreciate what you are trying to accomplish and I even understand why you are doing it the way you are.  You're a working man and are building this device on your spare time and the delay is so that you can prove your device works by presenting it.  To just tell us the secret now would completely blow that possibility because there would be many who would start to shoot holes in it.

It's also obvious to me that you are very bright and have a lot of good ideas.  I have an unrelated engineering challenge for you but it has nothing to do with free energy and it is something for another time.

One thing that bothers me however, is not about the device working or not - but is that initially you said that you were going to profit by selling the first machine to a museum.  But now you're giving it to yaz?  I don't get that and I feel it damages your credibility a bit.  So maybe you can explain this.

To smokey.. I know we are past this by now, but I have to say it.  A search of satellites on howstuffworks shows that the rockets on a satellite are to correct trajectory because of the altitude and speed lost by atmospheric drag.  If a satellite is high enough in altitude and is placed into the proper orbit it will continue for a very long time.  We know that the moon doesn't have rockets and it's not falling any time soon.  http://www.howstuffworks.com/question378.htm

One of the recent speculations here has been about slanting the wheel to keep it going.  What I read that to mean is that when the weight is at, say the 6 o'clock point slant the wheel down from 90' to maybe 45'.  If you look at that concept from the side you will see that slanting the wheel lowers the top most (12 o'clock) part (how much depends on the center of the slant - but let's assume it's at the base of the wheel and not the center).  So in essence the weight no longer has to travel as high to get to the 12 o'clock point (at 45') as it would to get to even the 9 o'clock point of the 90' wheel.  Then to repeat for another cycle you have to raise the entire wheel back up to 90' and that would take more energy than just leaving it at 90' and moving the weight back up.  So I don't see this working or being part of Archer's plan.

Keeping the wheel tilted at 45% the whole time would lessen the energy required to take the weight back up, but it also lessens the initial potential.  The weight has less distance to travel downward, less time to gain acceleration, and it has to move in a horizontal direction as well as moving down.  All the math changes.  Also the angle would generate more friction on the axis than if it were perpendicular to the earth.  I remember in high school (1985) doing this experiment where I stood on a lazy susan holding a bicycle tire by it's axel with arms on either side.  Someone spun the tire very fast.  You could feel the force of the tire trying to stay perpendicular to the ground.  Leaning the tire to the left or the right gave resistance to that movement - but also made me spin on the lazy susan.  So again I don't see an angle as being part of archer's plan.

One question I have for archer is how fast (RPM) will your wheel spin?  Some of the examples you've given, like the man stepping on the 1 ton water wheel, suggest a very slow moving wheel.  If I remember right you said "think water turbine".  The coin on the fan (no I have not tried it) creates a torque that is in correlation to the added weight.  I would think that you have to have a significant torque to generate a significant amount of energy.  So 1 ton or 1 oz.. if each blade is 1 ton but a 1 oz weight is added to rotate the wheel, the friction resistance needed to stop the rotation is much less than if a 1 ton weight is added to the blade.

It seems to me that a weight inside the tubes moving around also means a slow moving wheel with not much torque.

Again.. no offense intended - just questions.

Offline The Eskimo Quinn

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #164 on: May 03, 2008, 02:48:36 AM »
firstly i said i would give yaz the first copy, that is of the download and in advance, and a hard copy on disk noted as the first on the disk.

as for how fast it turns beats me??? i am building it as an upscale and finding the parts as i go, as they have to be available, and i have to then adjust the next part according to the last, if i get some rod that is a set size, then i have to find or make weights to match, if i use a holden hub verese a ford hub they are different. the speed will depend on weight verses friction as all generators of this kind (hydro gravity style) do. in fact have picked up a second motor with less friction than the fisrt today as it already had the axel on it and was low torque motor, if i have trouble arms versus axel i will switch. I originally used a fan in 12 volt, almost no friction and it worked fine, but it won't run your tv, hence the upscale.

many have said if it works its not a toy in regard to the small version, now how many know that even if orbo (steorn) works have a look at it, millions of dollars for a device not capable of running a houshold appliance, granted it may be capable of being upsized, but i feel they must be deliberatly toruring themselves to work that small with all that money, or the tech is trapped by size, it may work and they may get a pat on the back, good on ya, but i can g'tee no oil company is shaking in their boots, why??/ because it looks like a toy with too far to go even from the day it works, (and i hope it does)

 

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