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Author Topic: Roll on the 20th June  (Read 1313435 times)

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #105 on: May 01, 2008, 01:48:41 PM »
Archer, many thanks for the pic.
Are these some kind of electromagnet rings around your tubes to pull up and accelerate your weights inside the tubes ?

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #105 on: May 01, 2008, 01:48:41 PM »

Offline ramset

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #106 on: May 01, 2008, 01:59:49 PM »
Archer  will we build these now?  Chet

Offline ramset

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #107 on: May 01, 2008, 02:30:54 PM »
Archer perhaps just a parts list for those?    Chet

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #107 on: May 01, 2008, 02:30:54 PM »
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Offline oak

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #108 on: May 01, 2008, 03:42:40 PM »
Here's my best guess (on the photo).

What you see are neo disk or ring magnets, with all N faces up & all S faces down (or vice versa).  The magnets are placed on a rod that runs most of the length of the tube.  At the opposite end of the rod you have the same thing:  a series of disk or ring magnets.  Polarity for those magnets is 180 degrees from this first set, so that the same poles always face out (toward the near end of their tube).

At somewhere around 1 or 2 o'clock, an electromagnet placed outside the reach of the tube (which is rotating end over end) is pulsed to yank the rod & magnets toward it.  The magnets in the tube nearest the electromagnet are pulled to the end of the tube, and shift overall weight toward the right.

It may be that another electromagnet is on the opposite side (7 to 8 o'clock), with opposite polarity, to help push the rod & magnets away.  But this may complicate things unnecessarily.

(Another possibility is the solenoid idea I mentioned earlier (with coils around each tube end to move the rod & magnets), but this also makes the device more complicated because you have the problem of transferring electric current from the generator to the moving tubes.)

I am not sure what Archer is getting at with the falling satellite analogy.  Perhaps it is that you somehow are using the movement of the magnets within the tube toward the upper right as a component of the gravity boost.

Edit to add:  I just noticed that the spaces between the disks are wider than the underlying rod -- I don't know if that has any significance.  Also I don't understand (if my guess above is correct) there would be any spaces between the disks -- it would seem to work the same if all the magnets were stuck together.  So perhaps I'm off base here.

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #109 on: May 01, 2008, 04:23:45 PM »
@ Oak, i was going to say washers,  but your idea is much more creative...

if we use the sattellite analogy as a reference, then a 12 inch radial-location of the weights around the "up" side of the disk would have to be::

rotating at approx. 429,772 RPM to defy the gravitational force upon the mass of the weights.

this would give us roughly 1 / 7000th of a second to move the weights from one side to the other.

so i have to say, that NO, the sattellite analogy is not relevent.

as far as the 2 electro-magnets is concerned:: 
you cant assume that a gravity-powered device is producing the same ammount of power used by TWO electromagnets working together.

the power produced by this kind of set-up is less than half of the input power.  closer to 1/2 - additional losses
so by substituting 1 of the electromagnets with a permanent magnet, thereby halving your losses, the output will still be less than the input.   if it produced 10watts, and consumed 26w. then by getting rid of 1 of the electromagnets, it would then be producing 10 watts and consuming 13w

you have to take into consideration the original efficieny of the system before assuming that halving the losses results in overunity.  a system using dual-electromagnets in this manner is less than 50% efficient to begin with. so halving the losses IS a good thing, but the end result is less than 100%.  NOT 150%.......


This man is incredibly intelligent, despite his belligerence.

It would be real hard to convince me, at this point, that hes not intentionally overlooking this type of thing.
he did the same thing with the Archer's Loop, and his sattellite description,  and now hes doing it with the dual-electromagnet set-up.

Are we to believe that he "accidently" failed to see this type of blunder, repeatedly, even after it was pointed out to him?  in multiple situations?    I have seen no monitary incentive on Quinn's part, hes definately not trying to scam anyone here.   I'm really confused about his motives, because whatever they are , they are not obvious at the surface..   Maybe he just likes the ego-trip, i dont know...  maybe he really thinks his device does/will work.
maybe his device ACTUALLY does work..

But the fact that he continually misrepresents information  (apparently intentionally) to support the things hes claiming, is completely absurd.  I'm kind of astonished that im the only person who sees this happening.... (or that is stepping in to say something about it)

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #109 on: May 01, 2008, 04:23:45 PM »
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Offline oak

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #110 on: May 01, 2008, 08:54:52 PM »
Hi Smoky.  Sorry, but I can't follow your analysis.  I'm not suggesting it's incorrect.  But I just don't have the training in math, physics, & electricity to follow it.  (I also don't have the training to follow what you say about the other device -- the Archer's loop.)

Having said that, my thought is that you may be taking the satallite analogy too literally.  I think what Archer may be hinting at is getting some acceleration from maybe 1 o'clock to 3 o'clock, which will then give the weight a head start into the gravity boost.

If my wild guess (2 posts up) about the setup is correct, perhaps the electromagnet (which is fixed at a position outside the reach of the tube end) is located at somewhere around 2 or 3 o'clock, but it pulses when the tube end has only just reached 1 o'clock.  So the pull on the near magnets in the tube is both upward and sharply to the right, giving the magnets an added acceleration going into the gravity pull.

What Archer is saying about this device (this modified gravity wheel) is not totally implausible to me.  I believe there's far more to momentum and gravity that is not understood, than is understood.  (See, for example, the Aspden effect:  http://www.energyscience.org.uk/le/Le30/le30.html -- which perhaps has something to do with all this.)

Anyway, as you say, maybe -- just maybe -- Archer's device actually works.

Offline dhirschfelder

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #111 on: May 01, 2008, 09:23:25 PM »
@ All,

Archer kindly sent a better resolution of the photo - I have uploaded to a temporary directory for the time being

http://www.nannerb.com/overunity/DSCF0768.jpg

thanks Archer

DH

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #111 on: May 01, 2008, 09:23:25 PM »
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Offline dirt diggler

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #112 on: May 01, 2008, 09:28:34 PM »
now, I'm not sure but Archer does seem to make lots of reference to aircraft-which happens to be my specialty. is it possible that he is generating some lift with an airfoil of some kind, that is helping to lift the weight, or possibly an upside down airfoil to create more weight on the heavy side?  just a thought, but I am a newbie so it might not mean much!!

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #113 on: May 01, 2008, 09:50:23 PM »
@ All,

Archer kindly sent a better resolution of the photo - I have uploaded to a temporary directory for the time being

http://www.nannerb.com/overunity/DSCF0768.jpg

thanks Archer

DH


Okay, does not look like magnets.
Probably some aluminium discs or iron discs..
Also I can see some cords running down parallel with the tubes.

Seems Archer pulls these discs with the cords up and down at the right moments ?

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #113 on: May 01, 2008, 09:50:23 PM »
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Offline The Eskimo Quinn

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #114 on: May 01, 2008, 09:58:29 PM »
morning oak, Dave, and everyone else.

I did warn you the photo would drive you crazy, and none of you got it. and i taught you a valuable lesson, how easily something that appears to be what you are expecting is nothing like you imagine at all, i will not tell you, but they are not even remotely close to the component you think they are,

if you wish an insight into my thought process, it is best described as a logic computer, i do not see what you see, i see logic patterns, and they always override what i have been taught or told. It used to drive my previous employer nuts. He, one of the finest electrical engineers I?ve have known to exist, professionally trained, and 40 years of experience, would show me a device or drawing and out of the blue i would say it won't work, i don't know why, but something is wrong or something is missing, and i can't even do electrical load calculations!!?? but sure as your life within a few minutes sometimes a few days i would just instantly know what it was. The new place where i work is gas fitting and welding, there was a problem with a burner the other day, all of the gas fitters and long term workers were watching the test, I said when i picked it up, no flash marks, or cold burns from leaks, it's not a leak, and in the hundreds of 1.5mm  holes in the drill pattern, that is random not straight lines, i spotted a missing hole, that stopped the flame jump and allowed the gas to build up and ignite,

I don't do calculations, i place objects on fulcrums to ascertain balance ratios, then find out what the weight and measurement are after i get it to work. I don't see where smoke get his figures from in logic at all. think about this. i will have to go large to illustrate the point

500 ton arms each end/50 of length. now imagine the power this turning even slowly produces??? (think hydro power) the amount of weight to move the wheel one side over the other is nowhere near even one ton. the power generated by a wheel is from the total revolving weight not the added load x some gravity equation, the size of the turbine is still the size of the turbine, and when rotated produces a set amount of power per rpm, the same a a wind turbine. This is what smokey and i must say the rest of you also keep missing with some silly 5 kgs falling x gravity equals x bullshit. i can assure you a one ton bull sitting on top of you does not weigh 30 kgs the moment a child sits on its back.

This is where Newton?s teachings screw everything up and logic goes out the door. try really basic logic, if you have i cup full of helium, will it lift 1ton of weight? absolutely not says smokey by using Newton?s calculations as they do not include environment, i say it will. Think logic and simple.

the first person to write how and why will get the first copy of the machine when complete.



Offline neptune

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #115 on: May 01, 2008, 10:23:47 PM »
Balance you one ton weight on top of a pneumatic ram. Now inject one cup of helium[ measured at atmospheric pressure] in to the ram at a suitable high pressure and it will lift your one ton weight.

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #115 on: May 01, 2008, 10:23:47 PM »
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Offline The Eskimo Quinn

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #116 on: May 01, 2008, 10:29:20 PM »
true but not the reverse of the action of the wheel, also you are adding the cup under pressure i just mean remove the lid from the cup.

But also an aexcellent teaching point the not all mecahnical lifting components are solid (though not relevent to this project)

Offline oak

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #117 on: May 01, 2008, 10:41:13 PM »
Balance your 1-ton weight on a see-saw (fulcrum) opposite another 1-ton weight.

Place the helium in a balloon and tie it to the top of the 1-ton weight.  It will lift the weight because the total weight on this side of the fulcrum is now less than the total weight on the other side.

Offline helmut

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #118 on: May 01, 2008, 10:45:21 PM »

the first person to write how and why will get the first copy of the machine when complete.


First i do not expect to get the right answer.
But just for the Fun:
Somewhere in your discription was a reference about the spokes.
As i remember you stated ,that the Pipe is all ready filled with air.
So i think:
The Driveheads work as a valve.To get the Wheel moving fast,it does need a instand Air movement (Exchange) inside
the Spoke(pipe).The valve is open ,if the distance from Disc to Disk is like in the Photograph.
During the operation to propel the weight up,the disc are together without a gap and make shure that the Piston
will be driven fast.

Thats my guess

helmut

p.s.: The actuator might work via vacuum
and the Magnets are used to do the timing
« Last Edit: May 02, 2008, 12:58:08 AM by helmut »

Offline The Eskimo Quinn

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Re: Roll on the 20th June
« Reply #119 on: May 01, 2008, 10:46:09 PM »
gotta go to work, but sorry oak, it has to be real, the amount would not be enough due doe the friction in the centre

 

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