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### Author Topic: Feynman makes a Bedini Motor  (Read 65178 times)

#### utilitarian

• Hero Member
• Posts: 816
##### Re: Feynman makes a Bedini Motor
« Reply #75 on: July 17, 2008, 06:51:13 AM »
The reason is the charge circuit is only over 100% COP over a very narrow range of resonant interactions that actually occur within the battery itself. The output loop and the battery form a resonant tank circuit. Adding any external load will change the resonant condition. The charged battery has to be removed from the charger circuit and utilized to drive a separate discrete load to realize the gain.

Fine, remove the battery from the circuit when it is fully charged.  Swap in a new battery.  Voila.  Keep going.  Perpetual motion achieved.   I am sure the overunity of the Bedini motor is enough to perform the basic mechanical motion of swapping two batteries on rollers, no?

#### willitwork

• Newbie
• Posts: 30
##### Re: Feynman makes a Bedini Motor
« Reply #76 on: July 17, 2008, 12:51:27 PM »
"resonant interactions that actually occur within the battery itself"

Magnerazz, I'm with utilitarian on this. Keep charging, swapping and unloading batteries. Calculate the total power delivered by the disconnected batteries over time and it should be easy - very very easy -Â  to determine if you are getting any gain at all.

As for the "resonant interactions that actually occur within the battery itself" are we to believe that lead acid gel cells behave differently than car batteries, nicads, NiMH or Li-Ion type batteries?

At this point I don't buy the "The output loop and the battery form a resonant tank circuit." at all.

#### Magnerazz

• Newbie
• Posts: 11
##### Re: Feynman makes a Bedini Motor
« Reply #77 on: July 17, 2008, 01:48:37 PM »
Look at the Bedini circuit diagram. The output circuit is inductively isolated from the input circuit. The circuit possesses all of the characteristics of a simple RCL oscillator. The battery itself has resistance capacitance and inductance properties. A gel cel is a lead acid battery and for some reason the lead acid chemistry lends itself to resonance connections in a practical relatively low frequency range. That other battery chemistries don't work illustrates the quirky nature of the physics involved. There would be a whole set of different resonances for different materials, many of which would not fall into practically achievable ranges. This is the nature of spin resonance connection. For lead acid the resonant connection occurs with a specific set of harmonics somewhere in the 3.5 mHz range. The motor or exciter side of the circuit generates multiple wave forms and the resonant connection is an intermodulation harmonic response. If you built a successful replication, and there have been many, based on a particular size and type of lead acid battery, substituting a different size or type would require retuning the exciter circuit to find resonance again. There is no one magic set point, for any individual device a successful tuning is going to be specific to the physical geometry and electrical characteristics that particular device.

#### utilitarian

• Hero Member
• Posts: 816
##### Re: Feynman makes a Bedini Motor
« Reply #78 on: July 18, 2008, 12:39:23 AM »
Look at the Bedini circuit diagram. The output circuit is inductively isolated from the input circuit. The circuit possesses all of the characteristics of a simple RCL oscillator. The battery itself has resistance capacitance and inductance properties. A gel cel is a lead acid battery and for some reason the lead acid chemistry lends itself to resonance connections in a practical relatively low frequency range. That other battery chemistries don't work illustrates the quirky nature of the physics involved. There would be a whole set of different resonances for different materials, many of which would not fall into practically achievable ranges. This is the nature of spin resonance connection. For lead acid the resonant connection occurs with a specific set of harmonics somewhere in the 3.5 mHz range. The motor or exciter side of the circuit generates multiple wave forms and the resonant connection is an intermodulation harmonic response. If you built a successful replication, and there have been many, based on a particular size and type of lead acid battery, substituting a different size or type would require retuning the exciter circuit to find resonance again. There is no one magic set point, for any individual device a successful tuning is going to be specific to the physical geometry and electrical characteristics that particular device.

None of what you said addresses what I said.  If you think the Bedini is overunity, then it should be very easy to set up a perpetual motion machine, using the method I outlined.  Just use a single Bedini motor and multiple sets of batteries.  At the conclusion of a particular charge, use the charged battery to activate a mechanical motor which will swap a new set of batteries into the device.  Repeat ad infinitum.  Rotate flat and charged batteries around as needed, and siphon off extra electricity into other batteries or external sources (using something other than the Bedini wheel).  Repeat ad infinitum.

#### WilbyInebriated

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3141
##### Re: Feynman makes a Bedini Motor
« Reply #79 on: July 18, 2008, 01:17:27 AM »
show us your charge monitoring circuit utilitarian... what is its power usage?
mechanical motor? please elaborate, what is its draw? i'm sure you have the bistro math for how much energy the motor will consume moving large heavy lead acid batteries...

what, no?  hmmmm.

#### utilitarian

• Hero Member
• Posts: 816
##### Re: Feynman makes a Bedini Motor
« Reply #80 on: July 18, 2008, 01:25:23 AM »
show us your charge monitoring circuit utilitarian... what is its power usage?
mechanical motor? please elaborate, what is its draw? i'm sure you have the bistro math for how much energy the motor will consume moving large heavy lead acid batteries...

what, no?  hmmmm.

I do not have the burden of proof.  The person claiming overunity does.  Everyone claiming overunity from a non-continuous device makes some lame excuse or another for why the device will not run perpetually.  I am pointing out why this is so ridiculous.  The bottom line is if you have extra energy, you can close the loop somehow, always.  If you do not have extra energy, that is a problem.

Do you think the Bedini is overunity?  I suspect you do not (very few people do, even in the OU community) and so I do not even see why you are arguing this.

#### WilbyInebriated

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3141
##### Re: Feynman makes a Bedini Motor
« Reply #81 on: July 18, 2008, 01:26:14 AM »
LOL as i said before show some proof of someone claiming over unity...

#### WilbyInebriated

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3141
##### Re: Feynman makes a Bedini Motor
« Reply #82 on: July 18, 2008, 01:33:53 AM »
and burden of proof was not even mentioned... even though you did make a claim of "this is how to close the loop, blah blah use MY method..." i simply asked you for a precise accounting of how much energy your "add-ons" were going to cost us. this is logical. we require it to "pass logical muster"... yes twist and distract but you never put up when asked directly do you? come to think of it you never shut up either...

#### WilbyInebriated

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3141
##### Re: Feynman makes a Bedini Motor
« Reply #83 on: July 18, 2008, 01:55:34 AM »
None of what you said addresses what I said.  If you think the Bedini is overunity, then it should be very easy to set up a perpetual motion machine, using the method I outlined.  Just use a single Bedini motor and multiple sets of batteries.  At the conclusion of a particular charge, use the charged battery to activate a mechanical motor which will swap a new set of batteries into the device.  Repeat ad infinitum.  Rotate flat and charged batteries around as needed, and siphon off extra electricity into other batteries or external sources (using something other than the Bedini wheel).  Repeat ad infinitum.

show us your charge monitoring circuit utilitarian... what is its power usage?
mechanical motor? please elaborate, what is its draw? i'm sure you have the bistro math for how much energy the motor will consume moving large heavy lead acid batteries...

what, no?  hmmmm.

I do not have the burden of proof.  The person claiming overunity does.  Everyone claiming overunity from a non-continuous device makes some lame excuse or another for why the device will not run perpetually.  I am pointing out why this is so ridiculous.  The bottom line is if you have extra energy, you can close the loop somehow, always.  If you do not have extra energy, that is a problem.

Do you think the Bedini is overunity?  I suspect you do not (very few people do, even in the OU community) and so I do not even see why you are arguing this.

none of what you said addresses what i said.

shall i point out more of why you are ridiculous?

#### utilitarian

• Hero Member
• Posts: 816
##### Re: Feynman makes a Bedini Motor
« Reply #84 on: July 18, 2008, 03:45:38 AM »
and burden of proof was not even mentioned... even though you did make a claim of "this is how to close the loop, blah blah use MY method..." i simply asked you for a precise accounting of how much energy your "add-ons" were going to cost us. this is logical. we require it to "pass logical muster"... yes twist and distract but you never put up when asked directly do you? come to think of it you never shut up either...

Burden of proof is implicitly mentioned - you are asking for specific calculations, which I am under no obligation to provide.  I have pointed out how weak the excuses were for not making a perpetually-spinning Bedini, given the claim that the device is overunity.  The person defending the overunity aspect of the device has repeatedly put forth lame reasons why the loop cannot be closed, and I am exploring the lengths to which these "researchers" even bothered to try.

After all, no defense would be needed, if they could just show a perpetually running device.  But no, they have to resort to a convoluted explanation of why it won't run. I say, baloney!

And if you cannot realize that moving a pair of batteries sideways on a smooth surface on smooth rollers is a trivial task, I cannot help you.

#### WilbyInebriated

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3141
##### Re: Feynman makes a Bedini Motor
« Reply #85 on: July 18, 2008, 04:55:30 AM »
burden of proof implicit? perhaps, after all your claim WAS explicit.
funny how you require burden of proof for someone else's claim, but seem to think the same is not required of yours.
hey i'm just exploring the lengths you will go to to not try...
if it's such a trivial task it should be quite simple for you to provide the amount of energy required.

nice twist by the way

#### utilitarian

• Hero Member
• Posts: 816
##### Re: Feynman makes a Bedini Motor
« Reply #86 on: July 18, 2008, 05:04:34 AM »
hey i'm just exploring the lengths you will go to to not try...
if it's such a trivial task it should be quite simple for you to provide the amount of energy required.

nice twist by the way

OK fine, the answer is 46.3604 joules.

#### WilbyInebriated

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3141
##### Re: Feynman makes a Bedini Motor
« Reply #87 on: July 18, 2008, 05:12:38 AM »
LOL, there's that bistro math you are so famous for
kinda leaving out some data aren't you? what's the weight of your imaginary batteries? and your imaginary rollers what are the specs on those?

you have a strange definition of a "proof"... somehow i think you would require more that for your proof from the "bedini group"

#### utilitarian

• Hero Member
• Posts: 816
##### Re: Feynman makes a Bedini Motor
« Reply #88 on: July 18, 2008, 05:25:03 AM »
LOL, there's that bistro math you are so famous for
kinda leaving out some data aren't you? what's the weight of your imaginary batteries? and your imaginary rollers what are the specs on those?

you have a strange definition of a "proof"... somehow i think you would require more that for your proof from the "bedini group"

Was that the European swallow or the African swallow?

#### WilbyInebriated

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3141
##### Re: Feynman makes a Bedini Motor
« Reply #89 on: July 18, 2008, 05:27:03 AM »
nice twist

still waiting on that charge monitoring circuit diagram...
still waiting on the motor specs...
still waiting on the battery count and weight...
still waiting on the roller specs...