Language:
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.
 Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here: https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding

Custom Search

### Author Topic: Alex's MT Combination  (Read 193652 times)

#### hartiberlin

• Administrator
• Hero Member
• Posts: 8068
##### Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #90 on: May 13, 2008, 04:23:36 PM »
Hi All,
MT24 and MT25 are interesting,
cause they incorporate the lifting of the weights on the left side closer to the axis
via theirrods-lever action from the weights above onb the left side...
in addition to the fall out of the weights and lifting another weight on the right side..

But again I miss my own principle, how I understand a gravity wheel
can only work is that there are no springs which store the movement
( that means store the potential energy) of the weights.

When a weight has gone down in the gravity field without being attached to a spring,
its potential energy has been converted totally to kinetic energy and its
energy has been "lost".

But if it is attached to a spring, it can debalance a wheel,
the wheel can accelerate and generate energy
and then the weight is retracted via the spring and
the cycle can begin again.
Only this way I think it is possible to win energy from the gravity field.

In all here presented MT designs and proposals from Alex and the others I miss the springs...

Maybe this is the missing link Besser did not show in the Machinen Tractates ?

By the way, where did John Collins get the original Maschinen Tractates from ?
Why does he hold the copyrights to it and can sell it ?

Is there no original copyright free version ?
As Bessler is already 300 years dead, all licenses must have be invalid by
until now and it must be in the open source public domain...

#### Alexioco

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 579
##### Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #91 on: May 13, 2008, 05:05:34 PM »
I havent got my weights today, im loosing exitment now, i need toget these weights fast

#### AB Hammer

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 1253
##### Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #92 on: May 13, 2008, 06:23:13 PM »
@P-motion

Your claims, have been weighed, and measured, and you have been found wanting.

Please give it up, and get to your work, your wasting progressive time.

@ Alex

I sent you an email from my private email.

#### Alexioco

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 579
##### Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #93 on: May 13, 2008, 09:02:55 PM »
well, the levers do raise on my wheel and there is more to it than I could show in the drawing...

#### hartiberlin

• Administrator
• Hero Member
• Posts: 8068
##### Re: MT Combination
« Reply #94 on: May 13, 2008, 09:04:29 PM »
Thank you

and by the way, i made a mistake i didnt mean two revolutions but the wheel started turnging and a weight rised, the motion continued then another weights rised ready to continue so two weights rised but then the levers lipped off the nails, funny as I was using pennies to turn my wheel oh yeah and also it worked with 1 pence pieces lifting two pence pieces

Hi Alex,
couldn?t you just show this in a short youtube video ?
Why wait for the weights to arrive ?

I am going now to test a few new ideas this evening and will post
a video of my trials..

Regards, Stefan.

#### Alexioco

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 579
##### Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #95 on: May 13, 2008, 09:18:06 PM »
But I need the weights so they can lift eachother, by the way, no one seems to have taken any notice what I found about MT 137

#### broli

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2246
##### Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #96 on: May 13, 2008, 09:30:11 PM »
I'm also trying to get myself in these wheels club but with little effort  . I don't understand the working of wheel 137 at all but I was thinking of using it in a different way, maybe I should make a 3d render of it to clarify.

#### Alexioco

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 579
##### Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #97 on: May 13, 2008, 09:38:03 PM »
What i am going t odo is study every wheel and write down how they all work just like bessler did next to his 56 wheels...

#### sm0ky2

• Hero Member
• Posts: 3947
##### Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #98 on: May 13, 2008, 10:22:24 PM »
in case anyone is wondering at this point::  Where can i find these MT-drawings everyones refering to??

well, here's a nice link that shows (most of) them.

http://www.orffyre.com/mt.html

#### rlortie

• Full Member
• Posts: 178
##### Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #99 on: May 13, 2008, 10:31:50 PM »
But I need the weights so they can lift eachother, by the way, no one seems to have taken any notice what I found about MT 137

Having  built and played with MT 137 with many variations, I noticed, You will find some but not all pictures in my www photo gallery.

Ralph

#### rlortie

• Full Member
• Posts: 178
##### Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #100 on: May 13, 2008, 11:46:29 PM »
What i am going t odo is study every wheel and write down how they all work just like bessler did next to his 56 wheels...

Alex,

Are you going to write down how they work, or why they won't work. The  latter being the intention of the 54 he did complete. They were intended for the students of his never founded school to study and learn the reasoning of why they did not function as the inventor proposed.

To my thinking the ones he indicates hold potential for improvement are 9, 10,11, 14, 18, 24, 25, and 27... 15 is questionable as he states "nothing of the prime driver is to be seen here.

I would suggest emphasizing research on these and forget the rest until after you have exhausted all hopes of finding what is missing. Such as his statements of pulling back the curtain and connectivity.

Ralph

#### hansvonlieven

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 2558
##### Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #101 on: May 13, 2008, 11:47:49 PM »

Maybe this is the missing link Besser did not show in the Machinen Tractates ?

By the way, where did John Collins get the original Maschinen Tractates from ?
Why does he hold the copyrights to it and can sell it ?

Is there no original copyright free version ?
As Bessler is already 300 years dead, all licenses must have be invalid by
until now and it must be in the open source public domain...

G'day Stefan and all,

I have done quite a bit of research into the so-called Maschinen Traktate, a title coined by Collins, as he admits. He does not disclose the original title of the work.

I have contacted various archives in Germany and a number of scholars that specialise in Bessler's era, there does not seem to be a single reference that indicates that Bessler ever published such a work.

My guess is that it is an attempt by someone some time later to figure out how Bessler's wheel might have worked. Some of the drawings appear to use technology that was not available in Bessler's time such as sophisticated gears and rack and pinion arrangements.

I will keep on digging a little more, but at this stage I doubt the document's authenticity.

Hans von Lieven

#### fletcher

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 399
##### Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #102 on: May 14, 2008, 12:24:35 AM »
That's correct Hans - Bessler never published his woodcut pictures with annotations - John Collins did eventually win approval [& paid some fee ?] from a museum/university in Germany to publish these particular papers, IIRC - he did indeed coin the name Machinen Tractate [MT as it is called] since Bessler had not named it himself [they were in draft loose leaf form] - Collins MT has a copywrite because they are his works & translations found on the wiki [which he makes freely available] - his book MT for sale includes photocopies of the Bessler originals & the original hand drawn German annotations with Collins English translations alongside.

Collins got the woodcut printed designs etc from the estate papers of Bessler - after his death his second wife donated them for posterity - the MT's are a part of a larger collection including an inventory of his possessions [including workshop] after his death, which aslo makes for interesting reading.

#### hansvonlieven

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 2558
##### Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #103 on: May 14, 2008, 12:56:41 AM »
Thanks fletcher,

Ralph has just sent me a PM. Following the threads he gave me I found out that there is a collection of papers donated by Bessler's heirs to the University Library of Kassel, which is where Collins obtained his photocopies.

I will be in touch with the library. Even so, from what I gather, there is no certainty that the drawings and annotations are from Bessler himself.

I guess time will tell.

Thanks for your help.

Hans von Lieven

#### fletcher

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 399
##### Re: Alex's Bessler Wheel Discovery
« Reply #104 on: May 14, 2008, 01:47:08 AM »
No problem Hans - while there is no absolute certainty there is balance of probability - his handwriting style has been analyzed as the same [it's pretty horrible & hard to read, but distinctive] & the old German is of the period, IIRC.

Stefan should be able to read it as well as yourself I have no doubt !