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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: prometei on April 10, 2008, 11:52:42 AM

Title: about charging batteries
Post by: prometei on April 10, 2008, 11:52:42 AM
greetings

I've been reading different info on many websites and some questions have arisen

1. The user JohnPeter on gn0sis says that too little current going into the charging battery will eventually kill it.
http://www.gn0sis.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=97&func=view&id=6238&catid=41&limit=6&limitstart=6#6745

I adjust the potentiometer so that the current measured by my analogue multimeter would stay at around 50-60mA (I've read that measuring the current on this side of the circuit is tricky). I can adjust the amount of current between circa 45 and 200mA. The meter is hooked up between the diode and the positive terminal of the charging battery. How about you guys, to what values do you usually adjust your circuits?

2. When you charge more than one battery at once, do you hook them up in serial or parallel? From what I've seen on the net most people connect the batteries in parallel. Why not in series?

3. I've been conditioning my batteries (12V 3.4Ah) for more than a week now and I've noticed that once I start the motor the voltage of the charging battery rises pretty quick, for example on start the voltage is 12,10V and in 5 minutes it's around 12,40V but then 5-10 minutes later stops rising that fast and it only increases maybe 0.01V for every 30 minutes or more. Now, what I do is just let the battery charge for 10-15 minutes and then unhook it from the circuit and let it rest for a bit, then do the same till I get it to around 12,50/60 V. After that I discharge them using a PC fan (around 140-50mA). I was thinking maybe I should just let it charge overnight, continuously, you think it's a good idea?

4. In the film "Energy from the Vacuum" John Bedini says that after a while the conditioning process increases the power of the battery, so for example a 30Ah batt would work like a 60Ah. How can one check whether this is happening or not?
Title: Re: about charging batteries
Post by: pese on April 10, 2008, 12:02:48 PM
Will NEVER kill

even if you hold only the smalles STAND BY CURRENT to the battery, to
hold the Voltage over years stabile.
(So its need in Security alarm system (the batteries ar normally unused m but must have (an hold)
the charging  for the "worst-case".

Pese
Title: Re: about charging batteries
Post by: Ren on April 10, 2008, 12:21:32 PM
Trickle charging which you are refering to Pese may be low current, but current none the less. Confirmed by people that have worked with John directly, pure radiant will dry up the battery over time. So saying, I havent seen any one replicate a design which transfers pure radiant without some current (like the pendulum did). Prometei, I have found from my tests that the more current you push on the front end the faster your battery will charge. It does get to a stage where you are pushing too much though. This is one of the reasons a small light bulb in the trigger circuit can be a good tuning tool. If it comes on it is a fair indication that your coil is pushing about as much as it can and its pointless to lower resistance any further. I have a trifilar of awg 18 gauge that can be tuned to draw anything from 250 ma up to 1.5 amps. At the top end the globe comes on suggesting to me that there is too much going into the front end. @ 1 amp, the analogue gauge reads only 100ma into the charging battery, and that seems to be the best setting FOR THAT PARTICULAR BATTERY, (which is a 370cca car battery).

You will find that the bigger the battery is the more powerful your charger needs to be. Try setting your amp draw on the front end to match the C20 of the batteries and see how it goes. Also, the lower you discharge your batteries, the longer and harder it will be to charge them up. Google some charging charts and  you'll see the trends conventional charges go through. You'll also note that the last 10 to 15% of the charge can take a considerably longer time as well.

And always match voltage on the front to the voltage on the back, although it is interesting to note the oscillatory noises the coil makes when they arent matched ;)

So if you want multiple batts of the same potential as the front end then always hook in parallel (with as thick a gauge as possible for minimum losses)
Title: Re: about charging batteries
Post by: prometei on April 10, 2008, 01:34:06 PM
Prometei, I have found from my tests that the more current you push on the front end the faster your battery will charge. It does get to a stage where you are pushing too much though. This is one of the reasons a small light bulb in the trigger circuit can be a good tuning tool. If it comes on it is a fair indication that your coil is pushing about as much as it can and its pointless to lower resistance any further.

Ye I have a 40mA light bulb between the 100ohm resistor and the diode. Usually I start the motor at around 150-200 ohm and increase the resistance until the bulb goes off, it usually turns off abruptly without dimming, and then I just leave it there. Sometimes I do turn the resistance all the way up in order to lower the amp draw from the primary battery to a minimum and get the highest RPM's but after reading your post I guess that's not the best thing to do.

And always match voltage on the front to the voltage on the back, although it is interesting to note the oscillatory noises the coil makes when they arent matched ;)

I normally have a 12V 3.4Ah as the primary and a 12V 3.4Ah as the charging, both are Sealake FM1234 batts. The voltage of course varies, as the charging battery increases in voltage the primary decreases, so I don't know how to match them. How do you do it?

So if you want multiple batts of the same potential as the front end then always hook in parallel (with as thick a gauge as possible for minimum losses)

So if I hook up two 12V batteries in parallel on the charging side (maybe with a 0.05 difference in voltages, hard to get them to be exactly same potential) and then I pump say 24 volts on the front end, would that do any good?

Title: Re: about charging batteries
Post by: Ren on April 10, 2008, 08:32:19 PM
No.  I mean that batteries of the same potential group should be placed on back and front. That is 12 volts on the front, 12 on the back. You can have a 12 volt source on the front end and 24 on the back, and vice versa, but this doesnt improve charging at all.


For your 3.4 amp batteries I would set your current draw to around 170 ma. Please note that what I said about current draw is my opinion from my findings, and may not necessarily be the law :D

You'll find that the light will switch off abruptly when the wheel hits resonance and the amps drop. Are your batts sla or gels?
Title: Re: about charging batteries
Post by: prometei on April 10, 2008, 10:26:04 PM
You'll find that the light will switch off abruptly when the wheel hits resonance and the amps drop.

Or maybe the potentiometer is faulty   :-\

Are your batts sla or gels?

They are sealed lead acid batteries

(http://www.conelek.com/images/stromversorgung/101102_FM1234_600s.jpg)
Title: Re: about charging batteries
Post by: Ren on April 11, 2008, 12:17:44 AM
Ok cool.

my comment regarding the pot may not have been descriptive enough.

Do this. Place an analogue (ONLY) gauge in the negative leg of the front end. Set pot to average amp draw and give it a spin. Watch the amps rise and fall, a bit like changing gears, as the wheel picks up speed. My plexiglass rotor will draw up to 210 ma on startup but as it reaches top speed it wavers back to 130ma and sits quite comfortably in its little sweet spot. Of course I can further reduce the amp draw, it can run on 25ma, but I want to push some current depending on the size of the battery. My point is in its sweet spot the light should not be lit.

My other trifilar can be set so that the light will come on as the speed is increasing, but abruptly switches off when it reaches running speed. The light doesnt have to come on at all, but try to find a setting where you see the amps fluctuate a couple of times as the wheel speeds up. This is an indication of the pulses per magnet pass changing.

Your pot could be faulty, when you find an ideal resistance for your batteries,  replace it with a fixed resistor.
Title: Re: about charging batteries
Post by: prometei on April 11, 2008, 12:54:37 AM
@Ren thanks for your input. Do you have any videos, pictures of your motor?

Another thing I've noticed is that if I set the resistance to max, around 1100 ohms, and give the rotor a spin it will spin fast but if I start the motor at around 200 ohms and then gradually increase the resistance while the rotor is picking up speed, the rotor will spin faster when the resistance reaches 1100 ohms, faster than if started at 1100ohms. I'm gonna get an RPM meter soon to see if it is so.
Title: Re: about charging batteries
Post by: Ren on April 11, 2008, 01:41:22 AM
check out some of my motors @ youtube. User name shannrenn.

As for your resistance, its easier to get it up to speed with a lower resistance and then choke it at full speed, especially if the rotor has a bit of weight for a flywheel effect.
Title: Re: about charging batteries
Post by: Feynman on April 11, 2008, 03:33:26 AM
@prometei, Ren

Did you guys drill your trifilar windings?  I am building a Bedini motor this weekend.   ;D
Title: Re: about charging batteries
Post by: Ren on April 11, 2008, 04:48:05 AM
I twisted (litzed) my windings together, although I havent anything to compare it to to see if it makes a difference. In actual fact it can wreak havoc with impedances if not done perfectly, and I will be winding without litzing in the future. Its nearly impossible to get your twists per inch uniform by hand.

I wound my first coils by hand, a mistake I will not be making again! It took forever. Subsequent coils were wound with a battery drill. You can get it pretty neat if you take your time.

If you havent made your rotor yet I can offer you some other advice regarding construction. Try to match and space magnets equally around the perimeter. It can be time consuming but by far one of the most important parts of construction. A uniform air gap between the magnet and coil will improve your performance. If one magnet is further away from the coil than others it will induce less voltage and the triggering of the base will be different to that of other passing magnets. This can make your pulses uneven in strength and frequency somewhat.

Most of all take your time, clean and solder joints and dont rush, you'll be much happier with the finished product in the end.

And show us some pics!
Title: Re: about charging batteries
Post by: prometei on April 11, 2008, 05:10:34 AM
@Ren, cool, I've seen your videos b4. The one motor that you have outdoors, with the Acryl or Plexiglass disk, did you buy the disk or made it yourself?

@prometei, Ren

Did you guys drill your trifilar windings?  I am building a Bedini motor this weekend.   ;D

My coil is bifilar wound and sloppy. I'm still brainstorming on how to build a decent coil winder. BTW, read this http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4367.msg86830.html#msg86830 and maybe the whole thread, some interesting info on litz wires.
Title: Re: about charging batteries
Post by: Ren on April 11, 2008, 06:45:16 AM
The rotor I got laser cut and the center hole tapped for precision. I had to recess the magnets in myself, made a template on the pc and went from there. Its very easy stuff to cut and shape, but rather expensive to make mistakes on! Rotates on a modified vcr hub, silky smooth and super fast!
Title: Re: about charging batteries
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 11, 2008, 06:14:32 PM
@ Ren:

That is what I am attempting to use, modified vcr hub.  Like you said, smooth, balanced and nice low friction bearings.  I kept the original diameter for the rotor and was planning to use 4 magnets equally spaced on the circumference.  Do you think this is enough?  I have it mounted on a nice piece of aluminum I salvaged from an old monitor where I have enough room to mount heat sinks and circuit.  I enjoyed your videos too.

Bill
Title: Re: about charging batteries
Post by: Ren on April 12, 2008, 01:40:03 AM
Hi Pirate,

You can build as small as you like, you wont get much flywheel effect, but you will get some high speeds! Make sure you glue the magnets on real good, rough up the surface a bit and use a two part epoxy. Also put a little shield around it until you know they arent gonna fly off!

Make sure the magnets are spaced far enough apart, at least 1-2 magnet widths, your gonna need small magnets for that. Smaller rotors can be a little harder to start and adjust, but when they get going they really sing.

Sorry to burst your bubble but aluminum is not the best choice for supporting structures as it can slow rotation if it is near the magnets due to it being paramagnetic. A piece of wood would work better or some plexi. Aluminum as the rotor is fine however because it rotates with the magnetic field.

I made a high speed rotor that had four neos embedded into the vcr rotor with resin, worked quite well and was safe. Had to have it sit ontop of the coils though as the north faces werent around the circumference. Many options to play around with.
Title: Re: about charging batteries
Post by: prometei on April 12, 2008, 09:49:02 PM
5. Does the sweet spot shift while the voltage of the charging battery increases?

6. I want to build a switch with adjustable interval relay  that will switch between 2 batteries, so for example  battery A is charging while battery B is disconnected from the circuit, then 5 minutes later they are electronically swapped, now A rests, B gets charged.... and so on... For the primary I will use a 12V power supply. Maybe somebody has a schematic for such a switch?
Title: Re: about charging batteries
Post by: mfred68 on April 13, 2008, 05:01:59 AM
Please forgive me for not understanding bedini motors principles correctly, but as much as i have read, everyone seems to be talking about using a drive battery hooked up to the motor in order to charge a second battery, from what i can gather, all this dose is transfer the power from the first battery to the second, but is this OU?
at what point can the charge battery be used to drive a load such as an inverter and houshold appliances?
In principle if a bedini motor really is an OU device, ide build one tomorrow! but so far no one has stated that the charge battery can give more out than the drive battery.

if it really dose have OU possibilities, what % of efficiency can it actually give?

please can someone clarify this to me?

I am wondering what road of potential OU i should follow and experiment with, as theres several devices out there, so this really is just a general question about the bedini motor, so i can make up my mind whether i should take that route and spend some time and money on building one or follow another route such as the MEG or TPU which im also very interested in working on.
Title: Re: about charging batteries
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 13, 2008, 08:05:16 AM
mfred68:

I too am new  to the Bedini motors and I have been reading a lot.  Two great videos to watch are "The energy from a vacuum" parts one and two.  In part two Bedini explains a lot and there are many demos to watch.  My understanding is, for the most part,  The primary battery (which powers the motor) drains at a rate of x and the charge battery charges at a rate of x or as close to it as you can tune everything which sounds like a net of 0 right?  But, the motor has been turning all of this time and there are some cool ways to extract work from the turning motor so that additional work has to be added to the output x which would make it, hopefully, o.u.  This is what interests me the most about his devices.  In the videos Bedini hooks up fans (large ones) to his motors and moves a great deal of air for "free".  These movies are available on line for free. (flv file)  If you can't find them, I can hunt up the link.

Bill
Title: Re: about charging batteries
Post by: prometei on April 13, 2008, 03:53:04 PM
@mfred68
well, yes, one could design a bedini ssg to run in overunity. I've built my SSG to learn how it works, it's the simplest model and I'm not able to get OU out of it but nevertheless it's an efficient radiant energy charger, I even recharge non-rechargeable alkaline batteries. Now, as I understood from reading a lot of posts on this and other forums, in order to make the SSG run in overunity the circuit has to include capacitors and precise switching. Too bad this is not being disscussed in the http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bedini_Monopole3/messages (http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bedini_Monopole3/messages) group, only int he advanced group, gotta have an inivation to join it.


Here is a link to a thread on the tesla switch http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/962-use-tesla-switch.html#post13529 , I think it might also be applicable to the SSG concept.
Title: Re: about charging batteries
Post by: Ren on April 15, 2008, 03:57:10 AM
Prometei, if you look around enough you can find a fair amount of info on the cap pulser systems. There is a solidstate thread @ energeticforums to start with. There is not ALOT of info in the advanced forums that you cant find out elsewhere. They are much more open to experimentation there however and it is a good place for likeminded individuals to bond. And you get to join once you complete the basic steps in the first forum. Doesnt take long.
Title: Re: about charging batteries
Post by: semenihin-77 on May 07, 2012, 01:58:39 PM
My version of the battery. The greater the load - the greater the forward and reverse pulse transformer, and he used to charge the battery. No moving parts, no high emissions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzwULUlaynk