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## Gravity powered devices => Gravity powered devices => Topic started by: Alexioco on April 02, 2008, 03:16:23 AM

Title: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Alexioco on April 02, 2008, 03:16:23 AM
What I have learnt so far...

MT 9: This is how he attached his weights, but they were not attached as they are in MT 9, they need to be attached some other way

MT 10: It is not complete until changes have been made... Notice that there are more weights...

MT 11: The outer weights may need to be attached to the inner weights (working in pairs)

MT 14: The outside weights pull on the inside weighted bars.
Quote
Ask any of those who have groped inside my Wheel and grasped its axle" - "Rather, it has many compartments, and is pierced all over with various holes.
so weighted bars can slide (two bars = cross bar)

MT 15: This is how the weights are positioned in the wheel, but the movement in order to get them like that is not seen in this alone
Quote
MT15... From this drawing alone, however, nothing of the prime mover's source can be seen or deduced although the figure shows the superior weight.

Maybe the other wheels mentioned above when combined will reveal the prime mover

Notice how all of the wheels work in similar ways, meaning MT 9 is the basis, the weights in MT 9 may need to be disconnected, then doubled like MT 11, except the innerweights need to be like they are in MT 14, then the outer weights can be connected to the inner weighted bars, then the inner bars need to be lengthened and we end up with MT 15, but then the prime mover needs to be completed, once this is done, we have a runner. (MT 15 works the same way as MT 14, except the bars in MT 15 are longer and the outer weights are not connected to eachother)

We have learned how MT 14 works as I said earlier, now notice this, MT 14 only has half of the weights connected to the inner bars (There is half the amount of weighted bars on the inner than the outer weights), every other weight is not connected except to each other, but we diconnected them earlier, so what are the other weights doing? Some other use has to come in which may complete the prime mover...

What backs up my disconnection of weights is this, that MT 15 does not have the outer weights connected to each other, only the bars are connected to the outer weights, the outer weights now need to be doubled, then some other use they must perform to complete the prime mover?
That is why MT 15 alone does not reveal the prime mover but once the outer, now inner weights are doubled, they need to help with the lifting of the bars some how, then it is possible that we have a runner...

One more thing, the long bars in MT 15 could have springs attached on them, so when they lift at the bottom, they could compress the springs at the bottom, then the spring with the help of the weights would shoot the bar upwards at the top, just an idea...
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Dgraphic911 on April 02, 2008, 03:10:20 PM
very nice post, i have only been at my wheel quest for about a month, I was thinking that the  early drawings meant nothing, as my understanding was that this book was a progression of failiures and the erly ones did not work.

AM i Wrong, was the book written as a complete unit after the wheel was working and it has clues? I assumed it was his sketch book and showed progressive variations in thinking. Which would have meant to me that the early pics 1-120 were to show us where not to go.

Anybody with feedback would be great.

Also if anyone has not already done so that is new and might stumble upon this, On the other WHEEL their is also a discussion board, but better yet it has the historical posts. Its great reading and has many ideas and failed attempts. But what is the funniest is the so called experienced builders on this site make all of the same mistakes new people do, Claims they have it and the like.  Also John Collins appears to be highly active in the early days and also Stefan. Who i believe is the founder of this site.

But anyway. i would say required reading is all the posts (history included on that site) it will take several hours but gives valuable insight into what everyone is willing to share. Also its valuable because everyone stays away from discussing the one idea they are all working on. LEVERs and Pendulums.

Its funny to see them hint around and change direction. Its most likely where all bessler fanatics are focusing after playing with several variations of failed wheels. But you will see they keep any Pendulum info close to the belt. Which i believe is bessler's little Joke.

I constantly think.

And you still do not see......
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Alexioco on April 02, 2008, 04:03:07 PM
very nice post, i have only been at my wheel quest for about a month, I was thinking that the  early drawings meant nothing, as my understanding was that this book was a progression of failiures and the erly ones did not work.

AM i Wrong, was the book written as a complete unit after the wheel was working and it has clues? I assumed it was his sketch book and showed progressive variations in thinking. Which would have meant to me that the early pics 1-120 were to show us where not to go.

Anybody with feedback would be great.

Also if anyone has not already done so that is new and might stumble upon this, On the other WHEEL their is also a discussion board, but better yet it has the historical posts. Its great reading and has many ideas and failed attempts. But what is the funniest is the so called experienced builders on this site make all of the same mistakes new people do, Claims they have it and the like.  Also John Collins appears to be highly active in the early days and also Stefan. Who i believe is the founder of this site.

But anyway. i would say required reading is all the posts (history included on that site) it will take several hours but gives valuable insight into what everyone is willing to share. Also its valuable because everyone stays away from discussing the one idea they are all working on. LEVERs and Pendulums.

Its funny to see them hint around and change direction. Its most likely where all bessler fanatics are focusing after playing with several variations of failed wheels. But you will see they keep any Pendulum info close to the belt. Which i believe is bessler's little Joke.

I constantly think.

And you still do not see......

Keeping these things a secret is a little bit like, someone who wants to be Bessler saying: Look at me. Then again, I once kept my wheel a secret, so I can?t really say anything :P
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Dgraphic911 on April 02, 2008, 04:44:47 PM
01-03 archive

http://besslerwheel.com/wwwboard/wwwboard.html

03- 03 archive

http://besslerwheel.com/wwwboard/wwwboard2.html

seems to be alot of good stuf from back when people were newer to the idea of sharing, They all thought they were so close back then, seems nothing has changed.

also this

http://www.scribd.com/doc/445852/Perpetual-Motion-History?ga_related_doc=1

Perpetual motion book from much further back, seems par for the course if you know what i mean
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Alexioco on April 02, 2008, 05:46:01 PM
01-03 archive

http://besslerwheel.com/wwwboard/wwwboard.html

03- 03 archive

http://besslerwheel.com/wwwboard/wwwboard2.html

seems to be alot of good stuf from back when people were newer to the idea of sharing, They all thought they were so close back then, seems nothing has changed.

also this

http://www.scribd.com/doc/445852/Perpetual-Motion-History?ga_related_doc=1

Perpetual motion book from much further back, seems par for the course if you know what i mean

Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: fletcher on April 02, 2008, 10:12:57 PM
@ Dgraphic .. Bessler's MT was unpublished by him - John Collins published it recently - Bessler, after being arrested, became paranoid about his treatise [intended for a school of mechanics he was to establish after sale of his wheel] & removed a short series of woodcuts that showed his invention & how it worked - he inserted in their place a page affectionately called the 'toy page' about which he annotates that seekers of his perpetual motion should consult, if they know how to use the toys in a different way - he also says in various places [as Alexioco shows in his attachments form the wiki] that various drawings [woodcuts] within MT show the possibility & impossibility of PM & with a discerning mind one may consult them & eventually find movement - N.B. this progression of clues within notations is a separate issue from the later insertion of the toy page, so they might overlap to a degree - all the figures in MT [as they are] do not work as a self sustaining motion & do indeed show a progression of thoughts & experiments, some from Bessler himself & some acquired by him, but originated by others, to go into his treatise.

As for Besslerwheel members, they are not to different from the members here - they are human afterall with the same foibles, strengths & weaknesses - some have a depth of hands on skills & build experience in things mechanical & some are reservoirs of physics knowledge & reasoning - seldom do members come along that have both skill sets in equal portions to apply to the task - their experience in pursuit of this enigma ranges from days to decades - often the same ideas come up again & again, depending on the above factors, so it requires a bit of patience to be a member - some members choose to open source their thoughts, ideas & build experiences - others prefer to think & build their ideas in confidence, perhaps working with others in a small focus group or such - the reasons for why not everybody is willing to leap on the highest available rock to shout out their latest thoughts is that they have seen & heard it all before with the inevitable delusion & disappointment of failure, they don't wish to publically ride the manic rollercoaster of the PM seeker - this does not mean that they are all sceptics, knockers, doubters & pessimistic nay sayers who don't contribute anything to the discussions, far from it in fact - just that everybody is at a different place on the road that is this journey & sometimes they have company & sometimes they do not - many are just going about their business learning from their mistakes & attempting to come up with a POP before making any unfounded claims - some want to patent the idea [should the POP be successful] while others do not & want to release information immediately to boards like this [that's OK by me] - the ones who want to patent first also have different reasons for doing so - some have solely self interest at heart, some want to protect the idea first then licence it so that they retain control of its commercialisation while still allowing anyone to build one in their garage.

Just like this boards membership it is an eclectic bunch of individuals whose motivations can only be known by them & guessed at, you hope they are honourable.

P.S. I think you are completely wrong about levers & pendulums being the big kept secret - while some members [experienced or not] like one or both as possibilities as part of a working wheel, I think you will find the ideas & principles employed in this search are as varied as the membership is diverse.
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Dgraphic911 on April 02, 2008, 10:37:34 PM
@ Fletcher

WELL SAID!

Thank you for the historical info, I have tried my best to read every available page that i can find about the subject, but still find that some things are speculation on my part.

Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Alexioco on April 02, 2008, 11:45:03 PM
@ Dgraphic .. Bessler's MT was unpublished by him - John Collins published it recently - Bessler, after being arrested, became paranoid about his treatise [intended for a school of mechanics he was to establish after sale of his wheel] & removed a short series of woodcuts that showed his invention & how it worked - he inserted in their place a page affectionately called the 'toy page' about which he annotates that seekers of his perpetual motion should consult, if they know how to use the toys in a different way - he also says in various places [as Alexioco shows in his attachments form the wiki] that various drawings [woodcuts] within MT show the possibility & impossibility of PM & with a discerning mind one may consult them & eventually find movement - N.B. this progression of clues within notations is a separate issue from the later insertion of the toy page, so they might overlap to a degree - all the figures in MT [as they are] do not work as a self sustaining motion & do indeed show a progression of thoughts & experiments, some from Bessler himself & some acquired by him, but originated by others, to go into his treatise.

As for Besslerwheel members, they are not to different from the members here - they are human afterall with the same foibles, strengths & weaknesses - some have a depth of hands on skills & build experience in things mechanical & some are reservoirs of physics knowledge & reasoning - seldom do members come along that have both skill sets in equal portions to apply to the task - their experience in pursuit of this enigma ranges from days to decades - often the same ideas come up again & again, depending on the above factors, so it requires a bit of patience to be a member - some members choose to open source their thoughts, ideas & build experiences - others prefer to think & build their ideas in confidence, perhaps working with others in a small focus group or such - the reasons for why not everybody is willing to leap on the highest available rock to shout out their latest thoughts is that they have seen & heard it all before with the inevitable delusion & disappointment of failure, they don't wish to publically ride the manic rollercoaster of the PM seeker - this does not mean that they are all sceptics, knockers, doubters & pessimistic nay sayers who don't contribute anything to the discussions, far from it in fact - just that everybody is at a different place on the road that is this journey & sometimes they have company & sometimes they do not - many are just going about their business learning from their mistakes & attempting to come up with a POP before making any unfounded claims - some want to patent the idea [should the POP be successful] while others do not & want to release information immediately to boards like this [that's OK by me] - the ones who want to patent first also have different reasons for doing so - some have solely self interest at heart, some want to protect the idea first then licence it so that they retain control of its commercialisation while still allowing anyone to build one in their garage.

Just like this boards membership it is an eclectic bunch of individuals whose motivations can only be known by them & guessed at, you hope they are honourable.

P.S. I think you are completely wrong about levers & pendulums being the big kept secret - while some members [experienced or not] like one or both as possibilities as part of a working wheel, I think you will find the ideas & principles employed in this search are as varied as the membership is diverse.

Very well put
Well, maybe I am wrong or right, I don?t know, but it?s an idea...
I wanted to post so someone may be able to notice something I have not, or put information to it, the toys page has got to have something to do with it, its not there for no reason, but there are so many things, I can only go one step at a time...
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: fletcher on April 03, 2008, 01:30:58 AM
Absolutely - we all can only take one step at a time, until insight comes upon us - in the meantime we try to winnow fact from myth & fallacy & use whatever skills & tools we have & learn from them & others - including any covert references Bessler may have made to different gravity based Out Of Balance [OOB] principles he considered usable to provide torque, once his prime mover force was discovered, of which he mentions almost nothing throughout any of his different publications, but is likely to be in the toy page, in part to help establish his post humus priority, IMO.

N.B. IMO, it is equally valid to try & replicate his wheel performances [using technology of the day] any way you can, as surely the objective is replication of his feats, which may not also mean or support the strict definition of Perpetual Motion per se, but might be legitimately called Free Energy.
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Alexioco on April 03, 2008, 01:43:25 AM
Absolutely - we all can only take one step at a time, until insight comes upon us - in the meantime we try to winnow fact from myth & fallacy & use whatever skills & tools we have & learn from them & others - including any covert references Bessler may have made to different gravity based Out Of Balance [OOB] principles he considered usable to provide torque, once his prime mover force was discovered, of which he mentions almost nothing throughout any of his different publications, but is likely to be in the toy page, in part to help establish his post humus priority, IMO.

N.B. IMO, it is equally valid to try & replicate his wheel performances [using technology of the day] any way you can, as surely the objective is replication of his feats, which may not also mean or support the strict definition of Perpetual Motion per se, but might be legitimately called Free Energy.

May I ask, what is IMO?
Also, about the toy page, what pictures are on there?
are they all put in to one, like this?

Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Alexioco on April 03, 2008, 02:09:41 AM
I have now tried looking at this and came up with this, see what you think...

1.
Bessler
Shows two hammer men toys with two men each. Each man swings a weight.

Hints:
Quote
Alternate: Indeed, a work of art must drive itself from many separate pieces of lead; That are now always two and two; If a thing takes outwardly the place, thus the other drives to the axle/shaft; this is soon here, and that is soon there; And also changes on and on.
Quote
these weights ... are the essential parts ... and when they come to be placed together and so arranged one against another that they can never obtain equilibrium ... one or other of them must apply its weight at right angles to the axis ...

2.
Bessler
Shows two hammer men toys with one swung to the right and one swung to the left.

Hints:
Quote
Weights acted in pairs
Quote
Alternate: Indeed, a work of art must drive itself from many separate pieces of lead; That are now always two and two; If a thing takes outwardly the place, thus the other drives to the axle/shaft; this is soon here, and that is soon there; And also changes on and on.

3.
Bessler

Shows what looks like a link chain on the far right side. (Idea: Weights were connected)
Shows what looks like a Jacob's Ladder toy on the right side. (Idea: Weights move in the same fasion)
Shows a scissor-jack on the left side. (Idea: Weights moved upwards)

Hints:
Quote
If I arrange to have just one cross-bar in my machine, it revolves very slowly, just as if it can hardly turn itself at all, but, on the contrary, when I arrange several bars, pulleys and weights, the machine can revolve much faster

4.
Bessler

Shows fat men swinging large short hammers against an anvil and skinny men swinging lighter long handled axes chopping wood.

Hints:
Quote
On one side it is heavy and full; on the other empty and light, just as it should be.

5.
Bessler

Shows the skinny men with twisted clothing

Hints:
Quote
Springs were employed, but not as detractors suggested.

6.
Bessler

Shows a toy top that will flip over, end for end when spun.

Hints:
Quote
Alternate: Indeed, a work of art must drive itself from many separate pieces of lead; That are now always two and two; If a thing takes outwardly the place, thus the other drives to the axle/shaft; this is soon here, and that is soon there; And also changes on and on.
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: fletcher on April 03, 2008, 03:18:49 AM
IMO = In My Opinion ... JMO = Just My Opinion ...  IMHO = In My Humble Opinion

Yes, the toy page is just as depicted, all lumped together as you see it with the spinning top hand drawn, possibly at a later date & perhaps as an after thought ?

The toys sure do show mechanical actions at one level & I see you are attampting to interpret them in 'other ways' - everybody will have a different opinion about what each might mean in another context - personally I think they mostly are just mechanical actions but that the top was obviously added for a reason.
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Alexioco on April 03, 2008, 03:54:10 AM
Ah, thank you :)

So what do you think about my interpretation of the toy?

Also, I would very much like to know your interpretation on this toy...

I agree, they could be mechanical, but how do you interprete that into a wheel?
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: fletcher on April 03, 2008, 04:55:11 AM
I think if you go back & re-read your own post previous about the hints you have identified you will see that you & he are describing an overbalance wheel where weights work in pairs - one is farther from the axle than its opposite & this gives the wheel torque - he hints at many different types of overbalancing arrangements & calls them principles at various times - it would appear that once the prime mover is found & applied that just about any of his overbalance wheel principles in MT could be employed to do the job [see his comments about the completely different system of MT48] - ordinarily an OOB wheel that starts that way ends up in balance where the CoG is below the axle on the vertical line - Bessler's accomplishment IMO was that he found a prime moving force to shift or lift weights at the appropriate time & then later restored them to closer to the axle on the ascending side, possibly using springs at that point, which meant that the wheel had asymmetric torque which allowed it to self sustain its rotation - if that were the case then the toy page mostly represents different ways & actions for changing a wheels CoG or CoM [pushing & pulling] - as an example of something slightly different the Jacobs ladder looks to me like MT9 if the circle is closed - the top would appear to be an important part of completing the puzzle otherwise why its late inclusion, especially if you have ruled out gravity itself as the prime mover - many of the gravity fundamentalists haven't yet ruled it out however - I'm sure your've read all this on Besslerwheel.com though.
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Alexioco on April 03, 2008, 01:46:21 PM

Thanks :)

Also, would this wheel work?

Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Dgraphic911 on April 03, 2008, 11:14:10 PM
to would this work,

Very nice thought process, but here is my humble opinion,  the four balls/weights with string on the right woulf have to be heavy enough to pull the middle(prime mover) straight up. Which would mean heavier by nth degree in order to do this. then once offset the weight of the mover being over balanced would have to move the other side with the four weights. Taking friction completely out of the picture i'm not sure the weight ratios would be able to make sense. But i could be very wrong.

Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Alexioco on April 04, 2008, 12:21:46 AM
to would this work,

Very nice thought process, but here is my humble opinion,  the four balls/weights with string on the right woulf have to be heavy enough to pull the middle(prime mover) straight up. Which would mean heavier by nth degree in order to do this. then once offset the weight of the mover being over balanced would have to move the other side with the four weights. Taking friction completely out of the picture i'm not sure the weight ratios would be able to make sense. But i could be very wrong.

Thank you for your comment, well this is the result I get from messing around with those wheels at the top of this topic, also, I thought the prime mover was what moved the other weights to move the wheel, of course, the prime mover is what moves the wheel.... ooooook, well now all I have to do it try and get this prime mover, I have been looking at the toy page and have though of a few ideas, none are really that good, the toy is somthing to do with weights working with weights (two and two) two toys with two people each with weights, chain means they are linked? scissor jack means they go up? and they go up in the fasion of jacobs ladder, but spinning?
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Alexioco on April 04, 2008, 02:59:37 AM
Alexioco,
Bessler did reveal his key.
By this, I mean the principal that lead to at least his initial design.
It could be that after understanding the motion better, that he could modify the principle to work in other ways.
The attached drawing of one of his wheels shows it.
It is the pendulum. I know everyone dismisses it. But when he was a child, calculus was still being developed by Newton and Liebven. Before calculus, trigonometry was the math.
If you look at the picture, the pendulums bob is outside of the wheel. And if it's swing is folled to bottom dead center, it will be inside the wheel.
How momentum is conserved while restoring a weight to it's starting position.
If the pendulum were straight down, then it's swing would take it to an over balanced position.
Some time in the next month or two, I will be trying to do a build to demonstrate this. It would be easier with an axle supported on one side. Maybe.
I am fairly certain that if someone checks, the pendulum will be found to be at a 30 degree angle. And only in trig would this matter.
There is something else Bessler would havebeen aware of that most engineers today ignore. And it is something that would aide in the development of a working perpetual wheel.

So when the pendulum is facing down, the wheel is un balanced and when the pendulum is at an angle it gives that extra energy to move the wheel out of balance again?
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: TheOne on April 04, 2008, 06:08:51 AM
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Alexioco on April 04, 2008, 04:38:16 PM
Alexioco,
Bessler did reveal his key.
By this, I mean the principal that lead to at least his initial design.
It could be that after understanding the motion better, that he could modify the principle to work in other ways.
The attached drawing of one of his wheels shows it.
It is the pendulum. I know everyone dismisses it. But when he was a child, calculus was still being developed by Newton and Liebven. Before calculus, trigonometry was the math.
If you look at the picture, the pendulums bob is outside of the wheel. And if it's swing is folled to bottom dead center, it will be inside the wheel.
How momentum is conserved while restoring a weight to it's starting position.
If the pendulum were straight down, then it's swing would take it to an over balanced position.
Some time in the next month or two, I will be trying to do a build to demonstrate this. It would be easier with an axle supported on one side. Maybe.
I am fairly certain that if someone checks, the pendulum will be found to be at a 30 degree angle. And only in trig would this matter.
There is something else Bessler would havebeen aware of that most engineers today ignore. And it is something that would aide in the development of a working perpetual wheel.

So when the pendulum is facing down, the wheel is un balanced and when the pendulum is at an angle it gives that extra energy to move the wheel out of balance again?

Alexioco,
If you can, either enlarge it or print it out.
What you can then do is this, take something that is a right triangle and have it go from the axle to the bottom of the wheel.
When you do this, see where the bob is.
It is a long and difficult math to understand. But once you understand it, it might be worth knowing.

looking at that, wouldnt it just balance at the bottom?

Ok, Ill have ago, does it have to have those weights in the corners too?, in fact, ill make it exactly the same as that.

Ok I have made it, it looks like this
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Dgraphic911 on April 04, 2008, 05:16:27 PM
Don't bother, Just kidding,

I have the exact wheel pictured, pendulums and all, several sets. I am going to take pictures of them this weekend along with the pictures to my HOW TO start a wheel platform.

I always say try  but have done tons of working models witht the pendulums,

Mounted to the outside
mounted to the wheel at various pounts along the long shaft
Mounted to the axle
Fixed point at axle
rotating point at axle
Mounted on heave side, mounted on opposite side ETC ETC

varied weights , balances, ratios ETC. have a wheel currently that has motive power for 75% of rotation. ANd it overweight 75 % of time. Just the other 25 is to heavy ????????? LOL

Used springs that help save the CF and translates that back into swinging/ flying through the air force. ETC ETC.

Still has the sticky spot that anyone who has come close knows of, it kind of reminds me of all the Magnet motors setups that go just about 99%. Just needs that little oomph.

I'll take pictures of the setups i have, not every variation because it would be way to much.

The "pendulum" as its been call ;) design has some very interesting aspects of advanced math that i believe stil have much room to be explored

Some are
isogonic-jacobi theorum
schiffler points
euler lines
incircles
excircles
Feuerbach points
newton-gauss lines
etc etc
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Alexioco on April 04, 2008, 05:30:17 PM
Don't bother, Just kidding,

I have the exact wheel pictured, pendulums and all, several sets. I am going to take pictures of them this weekend along with the pictures to my HOW TO start a wheel platform.

I always say try  but have done tons of working models witht the pendulums,

Mounted to the outside
mounted to the wheel at various pounts along the long shaft
Mounted to the axle
Fixed point at axle
rotating point at axle
Mounted on heave side, mounted on opposite side ETC ETC

varied weights , balances, ratios ETC. have a wheel currently that has motive power for 75% of rotation. ANd it overweight 75 % of time. Just the other 25 is to heavy ????????? LOL

Used springs that help save the CF and translates that back into swinging/ flying through the air force. ETC ETC.

Still has the sticky spot that anyone who has come close knows of, it kind of reminds me of all the Magnet motors setups that go just about 99%. Just needs that little oomph.

I'll take pictures of the setups i have, not every variation because it would be way to much.

The "pendulum" as its been call ;) design has some very interesting aspects of advanced math that i believe stil have much room to be explored

Some are
isogonic-jacobi theorum
schiffler points
euler lines
incircles
excircles
Feuerbach points
newton-gauss lines
etc etc

Why is this pendulum more effective than just a normal pendulum?
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Dgraphic911 on April 04, 2008, 05:43:23 PM
IT IS NOT, imo

I don't belive i said it was a pendulum.

from another of p-motions threads that it is a celtic cross or was a measuring device.  I have no current feeling one way or another. And i try to stay away from interpretation.

I love some of the stuff that people have to say about what they thought was meant by  this statement or that clue, but for myself i try to stay as ignorant as possible to any interpretation so that i cannot be swayed into the wrong direction.

Maybe it was all misdirection on Besslers part.
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: AB Hammer on April 04, 2008, 11:03:04 PM
@ Alex

I see you are using you brain. Keep up the good imagination, work it through by envisioning the movements as well as the negative movements. I have some grid that I am going to send you to print on clear sheet to put over your designs to help you see the possibilities.

PS did you get my PM message?

The grids are for you only so please don't post them.
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: erickdt on April 05, 2008, 01:33:00 AM
I do believe that "pendulum" was actually the on switch/throttle  ;)
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Alexioco on April 05, 2008, 01:59:43 AM
@ Alex

I see you are using you brain. Keep up the good imagination, work it through by envisioning the movements as well as the negative movements. I have some grid that I am going to send you to print on clear sheet to put over your designs to help you see the possibilities.

PS did you get my PM message?

The grids are for you only so please don't post them.

Alan, I am truly honored for you to do this for me, I shall look right away, and I will not post them.

I am having trouble with this toy page, it really is hard, Bessler did in no way make this easy  :'(
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: fletcher on April 05, 2008, 02:27:58 AM

Thanks :)

Also, would this wheel work?

http://www.besslerwheel.com/wiki/index.php?title=MT_41-60

this is the besslerwiki page which contains lots of other useful information - Bessler only commented on the first 56 drawings & then the toy page with the odd word here & there - I purchased a copy of John Collins MT some time ago [free-energy.co.uk I think] which I like to leaf thru in preference to web pages myself.

While your drawing shows good imagination I don't believe that it will work in reality, finding & keeping the balance position - this is of course the major problem with all overbalance designs no matter how they are disguised or re-packaged - JMO's.

@ dgraphic .. I think Bessler was very practiced at verbal, written & pictorial misdirection - he liked to joust with his detractors [like Wagner] & those whom he thought might have great powers of reasoning from small clues loosely given & who might prematurely 'crunch' his secret into existence - this makes it particularly diffcult IMO to draw a bead on anything of proper significance or even decide what was essential in his motive principle.
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Alexioco on April 05, 2008, 02:34:42 AM

Thanks :)

Also, would this wheel work?

http://www.besslerwheel.com/wiki/index.php?title=MT_41-60

this is the besslerwiki page which contains lots of other useful information - Bessler only commented on the first 56 drawings & then the toy page with the odd word here & there - I purchased a copy of John Collins MT some time ago [free-energy.co.uk I think] which I like to leaf thru in preference to web pages myself.

While your drawing shows good imagination I don't believe that it will work in reality, finding & keeping the balance position - this is of course the major problem with all overbalance designs no matter how they are disguised or re-packaged - JMO's.

@ dgraphic .. I think Bessler was very practiced at verbal, written & pictorial misdirection - he liked to joust with his detractors [like Wagner] & those whom he thought might have great powers of reasoning from small clues loosely given & who might prematurely 'crunch' his secret into existence - this makes it particularly diffcult IMO to draw a bead on anything of proper significance or even decide what was essential in his motive principle.

wow, he commented on the first 56 drawinings? now that must be valuble information, I take it is that wiki link to the 56 descriptions, thanks :)
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Alexioco on April 05, 2008, 03:40:10 AM
You know the workings of Besslers wheel you say?
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Alexioco on April 05, 2008, 04:11:14 PM
There are a few things in his MT which are obvious if you compare them to other wheels and his descriptions, but it is the prime mover that you need, and the prime move has something to do with a weight replacing another weight IMO even on the descending side which sounds useless, but if you analyze it you may find something, but I do not know the movement, and I should think that you don?t either...
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Alexioco on April 05, 2008, 04:41:29 PM
There are a few things in his MT which are obvious if you compare them to other wheels and his descriptions, but it is the prime mover that you need, and the prime move has something to do with a weight replacing another weight IMO even on the descending side which sounds useless, but if you analyze it you may find something, but I do not know the movement, and I should think that you don?t either...
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Alexioco on April 06, 2008, 01:40:30 AM
There are a few things in his MT which are obvious if you compare them to other wheels and his descriptions, but it is the prime mover that you need, and the prime move has something to do with a weight replacing another weight IMO even on the descending side which sounds useless, but if you analyze it you may find something, but I do not know the movement, and I should think that you don?t either...

>>and I should think that you don?t either...<<

Could be computer simluations are more interesting.

May I see this post? I would like to see how to do it.
thanks :)
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Alexioco on April 06, 2008, 03:32:54 AM
There are a few things in his MT which are obvious if you compare them to other wheels and his descriptions, but it is the prime mover that you need, and the prime move has something to do with a weight replacing another weight IMO even on the descending side which sounds useless, but if you analyze it you may find something, but I do not know the movement, and I should think that you don?t either...

>>and I should think that you don?t either...<<

Could be computer simluations are more interesting.

May I see this post? I would like to see how to do it.
thanks :)

Alexioco. May have deleted it. Only plan on demonstrating the basic idea and prove it can work.
After that, it will be up to people to decide how they think Bessler might have built his wheels.

So how did it work then?
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Alexioco on April 07, 2008, 02:58:51 AM
Alexioco,
If this principle is not understood, then the other one probably won't matter much.
Even if this does not work, that it would use less energy to move a weight back to it's starting position would be important.
Although it seems to be a simple design, no one in here can calculate it's potential to develop spin.
By this I mean, that gravity will accelerate the wheel at a rate that would be calculated by the net force. Such as, if the wheel weighs 25 pounds and there is 1 pound of net force at 2 feet, what is the potential of that amount of torque to accelerate the wheel ?
Would it be enough to go from a stand still and be able to maintain spin ? Or as Bessler was known to have done, would the wheel need some momentum that this would increase the potential of ?
Everyone in here knows that an over balance of this type will develop some spin. And since a fulcrum can be set up above the axle, what is to prevent a weight swinging like a bob on a pendulum from causing a wheel to spin ?
And as you saw in the picture, the pendulum's bob was outside of the wheel. As such, if it swung down, it would be inside the wheel.
Of course, using one behavior to compliment another could be to advanced.

So when the weight on the left swings in, it gives enough momentum to get the oposite weight to go right around and make it back to its position in order to sustain motion?
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Dgraphic911 on April 07, 2008, 03:21:24 PM

@p-motion

Like this ?  I hope you ideas for the pendulum make mine look childish, i am an accomplished wood worker and metal worker. I have worked on many variations of your pendulum idea. I will post some in another thread today. Knowing the secret and waiting makes you a great man with much self control. Your a man a mong mice, when you can grace the world with your  gift we will all be greatful.
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Dgraphic911 on April 08, 2008, 02:50:09 PM
from p-motion

Even if this does not work, that it would use less energy to move a weight back to it's starting position would be important.
Although it seems to be a simple design, no one in here can calculate it's potential to develop spin.

I have calculated it, the same way you should, it is a VERY< VERY SIMPLE concept to model in the real world and feel how it react. YOU will be very surprised at what your simple models does. Its easy  to dismiss that and say well if i make it more complicated then it will act differently, (as in your second picture that you show us)

But the first one that we must be smart enough to understand before we try and understand the second one. I believe it acts unlike you expect it to.

A pendulum or lever offset from the axle and meant to swing over the axle to create rotational torque is a very strong force and its very easy to assume that this  force with be stron enought to overcome all other forces. Especially when we CANNOT calculate the forces that are imagined.

Your lever idea shows some merit, but the reason you find trouble getting alot of attention appears from my simple uneducated opinon to be that you need to study the simple motion and understand that before,
1. telling others they can't
2. saying if we do that it will then make sense to us, maybe we do and the time it would take to explain it to you would be to much.

@alex

I am sorry that your post got hijacked by another, it seems to be par for the course when someone wants attention. I would not respond and continue the encouragment of someone inside someone elses post if it wasn't to continue discussion.
If my words become worthless let me know and i will exit.

I will try and quickly make a model of p-motion example that we should al get, i will take a shot at its moment of inertia and then at its area of rest. but he has left out to many variables. I'll explain when i have the pictures.

Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: erickdt on April 08, 2008, 03:03:55 PM
I strongly recommend that these sorts of concepts be modelled and tested with software such as WM2D before they are heralded as the answer for a gravity powered device. It will become quite apparent quite quickly what does and doesn't work.
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Dgraphic911 on April 08, 2008, 03:17:58 PM
wm2d ;D
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Alexioco on April 08, 2008, 04:57:09 PM
from p-motion

Even if this does not work, that it would use less energy to move a weight back to it's starting position would be important.
Although it seems to be a simple design, no one in here can calculate it's potential to develop spin.

I have calculated it, the same way you should, it is a VERY< VERY SIMPLE concept to model in the real world and feel how it react. YOU will be very surprised at what your simple models does. Its easy  to dismiss that and say well if i make it more complicated then it will act differently, (as in your second picture that you show us)

But the first one that we must be smart enough to understand before we try and understand the second one. I believe it acts unlike you expect it to.

A pendulum or lever offset from the axle and meant to swing over the axle to create rotational torque is a very strong force and its very easy to assume that this  force with be stron enought to overcome all other forces. Especially when we CANNOT calculate the forces that are imagined.

Your lever idea shows some merit, but the reason you find trouble getting alot of attention appears from my simple uneducated opinon to be that you need to study the simple motion and understand that before,
1. telling others they can't
2. saying if we do that it will then make sense to us, maybe we do and the time it would take to explain it to you would be to much.

@alex

I am sorry that your post got hijacked by another, it seems to be par for the course when someone wants attention. I would not respond and continue the encouragment of someone inside someone elses post if it wasn't to continue discussion.
If my words become worthless let me know and i will exit.

I will try and quickly make a model of p-motion example that we should al get, i will take a shot at its moment of inertia and then at its area of rest. but he has left out to many variables. I'll explain when i have the pictures.

Its alright, no problem...
I dont want to say to much yet but the other night I could not sleep beause I think I may have found a workign wheel which could be built in a matter of hours (for me anyway) I will post it when I have built it, just incase it does not work, lol you know hwo it is...
but for now, yeah I think the above ideas are good, I dont quite understand them...
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: erickdt on April 08, 2008, 05:10:20 PM
I strongly recommend that these sorts of concepts be modelled and tested with software such as WM2D before they are heralded as the answer for a gravity powered device. It will become quite apparent quite quickly what does and doesn't work.

@ Eric,
I think this idea is simple enough that common sense would be sufficient.
After all, the idea of an over balanced wheel (in this caes, an arm) is that it will rotate in the direction of the weight furthest from the center.
Has this changed ? If not, then am not sure why this would not work.
Bessler might have done something like this first before going on to build his wheels. If so, then he probably destroyed a lot of his work as he did not value it much. Could be he wanted more of a challenge.

There's a saying that common sense isn't very common. This idea certainly applies to the problem of a gravity powered device. Time and time again devices both real and simulated have performed very differently from how I had imagined and I am a design engineer, someone who theoretically has more than common knowledge of these things. For example: it seems logical to think the the wheel as you've described it will turn towards the side where the weight is the farthest from the axis this however is not the case. In fact, for whatever reason it turns in the other direction...

Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: AB Hammer on April 08, 2008, 05:45:32 PM

I dont want to say to much yet but the other night I could not sleep beause I think I may have found a workign wheel

That is how I came up with several of my designs.  ;D
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Dgraphic911 on April 08, 2008, 08:37:09 PM
@erick

Yes you are correct the wheel will spin to the right with the sketch that P-motion first drew as an example for us. its interesting and has been much fun for me over the past few weeks. The points of rest with levers and "pendulums" are quit interesting. Where you would suspect the weight to rest is not always the case.COG of the object plays a big role.
Also as you clearly already know that by using fulcrum and the axle as leverage points the dynamics become very intersting. It is amusing though to hear others argue against you when
you have actually done the experiment they are demanding you understand so that you can see for yourself what they mean.

erick did you model this or was this behaviour something that worked in WM2d, i have used a physical model, just curious??
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: erickdt on April 08, 2008, 08:47:36 PM
@erick

Yes you are correct the wheel will spin to the right with the sketch that P-motion first drew as an example for us. its interesting and has been much fun for me over the past few weeks. The points of rest with levers and "pendulums" are quit interesting. Where you would suspect the weight to rest is not always the case.COG of the object plays a big role.
Also as you clearly already know that by using fulcrum and the axle as leverage points the dynamics become very intersting. It is amusing though to hear others argue against you when
you have actually done the experiment they are demanding you understand so that you can see for yourself what they mean.

erick did you model this or was this behaviour something that worked in WM2d, i have used a physical model, just curious??

It was modelled in WM2D.
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Dgraphic911 on April 09, 2008, 03:37:58 PM
from p-motion
"One thing about the design, if PiR^2=X (circumference), then Pi2R^2=2X.
I think everyone would agree with this. What would not be realized is that the amount of over balance would also be twice as much.
Still, I think that 5kg's (2.5 per side) might be to lite. If looking at 1/40th the total mass as net force at 60+cm's, I'd probably start with 20kg's and go up. It is one of those things, the further from the center, the less weight that would be needed as net force would be a higher %. Unless of course the % of over balance became less, ie. decreasing the distance from the center compared to the opposing weight.
Hope I haven't missed anything.  :-)"

I must be stupid, because that sounds like chinese to me, man i wish the US education system was better  ;D

Anyway, i want to do some thing that p-motion does alot.

Thats great but lets talk about me now. BACK to basics. I'm sure noone in this thread is making this mistake but. lets look at a basic issue/fundamental that i think i misunderstood.

picture this

i make a 2 foot long balance beam, out of metal with a 5/16 hole in the middle around which it will rotate.  I take a 700gram lead weight and place it all the way out on one side 12", on the other side i place the same weight 700 gram at 10.75 inches out, roughly 10% closer to the axle. Now i would say that the wheel is currently overweighter to one side.

YES?

if that is the case then where will the side that has the weight overweighted on come to rest at?

The reason i use 10 percent about is because on the 14 foot wheel the wieghts were a full foot closer to the outside as they passed the centerline on each side. I thought. so 10% sounded good to me.

So where does it come to rest ?????   6 oclock, 3 oclock, or  somewhere else.

Sine ? cosine?

Sign and Co-sign.   Is that like a sign that works with a sign? on a red light would red and green be the sign and yellow be the co-sign?

The reason for my asking is because of your design, once i have the answer i'll explain the fundamental flaw of most designers(newbies like me)

Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Dgraphic911 on April 09, 2008, 04:14:21 PM
p-motion
this is for you.
I still cannot figure out how to get pictures in my post. on the OU site

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=47917#47917
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Dgraphic911 on April 10, 2008, 02:39:03 PM
p-motion
Do you know anyone that lifts weights ? If so, maybe you could borrow a couple of weights from them ?
I think the weights you are using are to lite. In our terms, your over balance has less than 3 ounces of force. That is not much to be working with.

Are you saying i need to excersise?  ;D
Please show me your 3 ounce calculation, I am using 2" lead weights on a 2 foot wheel. On besslers 12 foor wheel the weight on this scale would be over a foot round corcle of lead, Have you any clue how heavy that would be, on a scale  model lead woule be the heaviest medium that you could possibly use, i'm sure my weights are to big if anything.

700 grams, overweight by 10%, would be 70 grams, is that 3 ounces ? Please tell me, i am not good at math,.
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: erickdt on April 10, 2008, 06:15:19 PM
If the proportions remain the same the scale shouldn't matter. In other words a leverage differential of 1:10 is no different than a leverage differential of 10:100. The same principle applies to the mass of the weights. No matter what their mass is the ammount of torque they will produce will be the same because in either case the leverage differential is the same.
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Dgraphic911 on April 11, 2008, 03:03:38 PM
One thing about the wheel. It is solid. If you have 70 grams of net force and 1400 grams of weight, that is a 20:1 ratio. The wood for the wheel could make it 40:1.

Statements like that confuse me, how is the wheel an issue, the wheel weighs 700 grams also :)

But the same experiments as you say can be carried out on a board,( al balance beam in my case) and i believe they show the same result, the Weight of the wheel is a non issue , a 1 gram weight or a 700 gram weight out of balance by 10% shows the same resulting positioning and rest areas with different mechs.

P-motion, when you visit your friend/family that has some scrap wood for you to manipulate please let me know the reuslts of your Experiment.

@alex

My positive thoughts are with you this wekend as you try your new idea that came to you in the middle of the night, can't wait to hear what happened.

D
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: FatBird on April 11, 2008, 03:32:15 PM
I found this old Free Energy Indian Wheel on the Peswiki site.  It said that grooves were cut out into the wood for small weights (small round stones?) to slide back & forth as the Wheel revolved.

I am not an expert, but couldn't a person attach lengths of Plastic Pipe, half filled with Water, to a Wood Wheel?  These lengths of Plastic Pipe would be attached right where the photo shows the old grooves.

Of course, the ends of each pipe would be sealed with plastic caps to keep the water in.

Plus, it seems like the OUTPUT could be DOUBLED by placing a Second Set of Pipes on the Back Side of the Wood in Identical Positions.

Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Alexioco on April 11, 2008, 11:36:02 PM
One thing about the wheel. It is solid. If you have 70 grams of net force and 1400 grams of weight, that is a 20:1 ratio. The wood for the wheel could make it 40:1.

Statements like that confuse me, how is the wheel an issue, the wheel weighs 700 grams also :)

But the same experiments as you say can be carried out on a board,( al balance beam in my case) and i believe they show the same result, the Weight of the wheel is a non issue , a 1 gram weight or a 700 gram weight out of balance by 10% shows the same resulting positioning and rest areas with different mechs.

P-motion, when you visit your friend/family that has some scrap wood for you to manipulate please let me know the reuslts of your Experiment.

@alex

My positive thoughts are with you this wekend as you try your new idea that came to you in the middle of the night, can't wait to hear what happened.

D

I have indeed nearly built it, this is what I have learned from my wheel.

Perpetual Motion Rules

These rules are what I have learned in designing perpetual motion wheels, my wheel does all of these.

A weight cannot be attached to a wheel.
Even though rolling weights may not be attached to a wheel, they may as well be as they keep a constant pressure on the wheel.

A weight must rise on the ascending side
of a wheel without putting its pressure on the wheel.

A light weight must raise a heavy weight
to the top of a wheel, then the heavy weight can take over.

Everything must revolve around with the wheel,
Nothing must stop.

Weights must act in pairs
through the use of an overbalanced arrangement.

Simplicity
is the key to a working wheel, if a wheel involves a complicated mechanism, then the wheel will just become more heavy.

A weight must push up
on the ascending side of a wheel.

A weight must rest
on the descending side of a wheel.

Heavy weights cannot be used to lift the prime weights
in order to turn the wheel, as the heavy weights make the prime weights obsolete.

But my wheel has encounted one problem which I am trying to fix at the moment, once its built, I will post a video of it, hopfully running...

Its so simple, you could make this in a hour or even less, but me, I have taken my time so I don?t make any mistakes, but I will just say this, I am not going to claim that it works until I have made it because one cannot be to sure if it really works until it has been built?

Alex
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Alexioco on April 12, 2008, 01:39:48 AM
Yeah, I just use those guidlines if i am working on wheel like the one I have started now, I wouldnt say they apply to everything, but quite alot of wheels IMHO
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: FatBird on April 13, 2008, 03:09:25 AM
Ralph, I am not sure of the history of that old Indian Wheel.  Sorry.

.
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: Dgraphic911 on April 28, 2008, 02:35:36 PM
Hi guys -

First let me say that a computer simulation using the accepted notion of a fixed weight for objects will never predict a working Bessler wheel.

DITTO
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: onthecuttingedge2010 on April 17, 2011, 04:51:44 AM
Sorry, it was nothing more than a grandfather clock system, using weights and pulley's. bessler was a clock maker if anything.
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: protech on April 17, 2011, 07:09:11 AM
why do you guys think of a wheel....? THINK OF A SHAFT BEING THE CENTER.........the idea is to move a shaft by offset weights in a concentric circle it will not happen if you keep things in center  and why do you need a wheel .... you need a spinning shaft..........think of a teeter totter .....it works ,.....just more weight on the gravity side than the lifting side ....get it ...I am going to post a idea ...........lol ......more weight on the gravity side than the lift side ......... the ideal concept would be for linear bearings with a .010 play no resistance ......and rollers on the ends of the rods ............ the idea is that the rods float freely through the center now look at the basic diagram and THINK.. how cheaply could you do this at home

in the basic dia i am showing  a shift in rod weight loose the circle think center..... think egg .....look at one in the long horizontal position .....Why am i giving this away............I got better...... now the pick is rough but smart people will get it
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: guruji on April 17, 2011, 09:50:00 AM
Hi Protech once I posted an offset shaft but don't know if it works. When put in practise it's a different story.  :-[
Thanks to share.
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: oscar on November 14, 2011, 08:51:32 AM
Hi all,

the attached does NOT show a working gravity wheel, but maybe the mechanism is interesting to some of you. I am trying to develop it further.

The blue cogwheel can not turn freely but is mounted using a ratchet or freewheel clutch.

You will need phantasy and/or the software "Working Model 2D" also known as "wm2d" to see the interaction of the parts.

The software is available as a torrent.
I have attached the zipped .wm2d model file.
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: oscar on January 09, 2012, 07:46:54 AM
The depicted mechanism will raise its center of gravity (during the first phase of the movement).

While doing so, the relative position of the three driving weights will change. Then those three weights will automatically reset to their original relative positions - not to the original absolute (start) position, unfortunately.
wm2d-file is attached.
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: oscar on February 03, 2013, 02:34:28 PM
I tried for a long time to make everything revolve around a common axis.
I gave up on that but came across a principle which should help us to build a gravity powered motor.

I saw the following:
Some weights (black weights in attached image and video) need to be raised AGAINST the direction of rotation of the main assembly.
Please compare the two simulated assemblies in the video:

Both parts of the video show the same mechanism and same weights, the only difference being that freewheel clutches are used in part 2.
These "ratchets" block the swing of the three pendulums.
Consequently the pendulums with the black weights act as "propellers".

The propulsion effect shown in the video is very weak.

In order to increase the propulsive force, heavier black weights need to be raised without need for more energy.

How this can be done?
Well, technically the black weights in the simulated mechanism are LIFTED BY LEVERS.
The teachings of "classical mechanics" say, that when weights are ROLLED UP A RAMP, they can be transported to greater height, with the same amount of force.

Note: there is no copyright regarding the video or the mechanical principle.
Whoever likes the video may feel free to download it using keepvid.com or a similar service and/or upload it to their own channels.
Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: lumen on August 17, 2013, 08:55:36 PM
I have not read this entire thread, but it looks like the last few pictures are interesting.

The concept of a gravity wheel seems a bit impossible to me except it's one of those things you just can't leave alone.
Having said that, I believe I found the answer to a working wheel!

I don't mean one that has nearly balanced operation, but one that would produce real horsepower.
There is a combination of two systems that allow for a real working Bessler Wheel, if he indeed had one.
Here is the link where I try to describe this system. Once you understand it's operation, you will see how easy it is!

Ok, so it can't work due to gearing, but the concept is something to ponder in a different direction!

Title: Re: My Bessler Quest
Post by: oscar on October 21, 2013, 02:42:18 PM
Following the content of my last post and referring to the attached illustration, I would like to clarify the concept:

While a weight on the rotor travels downward it raises another weight, which is not part of the rotor i.e. this other weight does not rotate around the rotor axis but oscillates vertically (goes up and down).

The rotor weight in the schematic illustration is blue, the oscillating weight is black.
When being pulled upward, the oscillating weight adds onto the rotor weight, increasing the torque (driving force).

wm2d file is attached.