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Author Topic: My Bessler Quest  (Read 40585 times)

Offline Dgraphic911

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Re: My Bessler Quest
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2008, 11:14:10 PM »
to would this work,

Very nice thought process, but here is my humble opinion,  the four balls/weights with string on the right woulf have to be heavy enough to pull the middle(prime mover) straight up. Which would mean heavier by nth degree in order to do this. then once offset the weight of the mover being over balanced would have to move the other side with the four weights. Taking friction completely out of the picture i'm not sure the weight ratios would be able to make sense. But i could be very wrong.



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Re: My Bessler Quest
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2008, 11:14:10 PM »

Offline Alexioco

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Re: My Bessler Quest
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2008, 12:21:46 AM »
to would this work,

Very nice thought process, but here is my humble opinion,  the four balls/weights with string on the right woulf have to be heavy enough to pull the middle(prime mover) straight up. Which would mean heavier by nth degree in order to do this. then once offset the weight of the mover being over balanced would have to move the other side with the four weights. Taking friction completely out of the picture i'm not sure the weight ratios would be able to make sense. But i could be very wrong.




Thank you for your comment, well this is the result I get from messing around with those wheels at the top of this topic, also, I thought the prime mover was what moved the other weights to move the wheel, of course, the prime mover is what moves the wheel.... ooooook, well now all I have to do it try and get this prime mover, I have been looking at the toy page and have though of a few ideas, none are really that good, the toy is somthing to do with weights working with weights (two and two) two toys with two people each with weights, chain means they are linked? scissor jack means they go up? and they go up in the fasion of jacobs ladder, but spinning?

Offline Alexioco

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Re: My Bessler Quest
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2008, 02:59:37 AM »
  Alexioco,
 Bessler did reveal his key.
 By this, I mean the principal that lead to at least his initial design.
It could be that after understanding the motion better, that he could modify the principle to work in other ways.
 The attached drawing of one of his wheels shows it.
 It is the pendulum. I know everyone dismisses it. But when he was a child, calculus was still being developed by Newton and Liebven. Before calculus, trigonometry was the math.
 If you look at the picture, the pendulums bob is outside of the wheel. And if it's swing is folled to bottom dead center, it will be inside the wheel.
 How momentum is conserved while restoring a weight to it's starting position.
 If the pendulum were straight down, then it's swing would take it to an over balanced position.
 Some time in the next month or two, I will be trying to do a build to demonstrate this. It would be easier with an axle supported on one side. Maybe.
 I am fairly certain that if someone checks, the pendulum will be found to be at a 30 degree angle. And only in trig would this matter.
 There is something else Bessler would havebeen aware of that most engineers today ignore. And it is something that would aide in the development of a working perpetual wheel.
 

So when the pendulum is facing down, the wheel is un balanced and when the pendulum is at an angle it gives that extra energy to move the wheel out of balance again?

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Re: My Bessler Quest
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2008, 02:59:37 AM »
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Offline Alexioco

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Re: My Bessler Quest
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2008, 04:38:16 PM »
  Alexioco,
 Bessler did reveal his key.
 By this, I mean the principal that lead to at least his initial design.
It could be that after understanding the motion better, that he could modify the principle to work in other ways.
 The attached drawing of one of his wheels shows it.
 It is the pendulum. I know everyone dismisses it. But when he was a child, calculus was still being developed by Newton and Liebven. Before calculus, trigonometry was the math.
 If you look at the picture, the pendulums bob is outside of the wheel. And if it's swing is folled to bottom dead center, it will be inside the wheel.
 How momentum is conserved while restoring a weight to it's starting position.
 If the pendulum were straight down, then it's swing would take it to an over balanced position.
 Some time in the next month or two, I will be trying to do a build to demonstrate this. It would be easier with an axle supported on one side. Maybe.
 I am fairly certain that if someone checks, the pendulum will be found to be at a 30 degree angle. And only in trig would this matter.
 There is something else Bessler would havebeen aware of that most engineers today ignore. And it is something that would aide in the development of a working perpetual wheel.
 

So when the pendulum is facing down, the wheel is un balanced and when the pendulum is at an angle it gives that extra energy to move the wheel out of balance again?

  Alexioco,
 If you can, either enlarge it or print it out.
 What you can then do is this, take something that is a right triangle and have it go from the axle to the bottom of the wheel.
 When you do this, see where the bob is.
 It is a long and difficult math to understand. But once you understand it, it might be worth knowing.

looking at that, wouldnt it just balance at the bottom?

Ok, Ill have ago, does it have to have those weights in the corners too?, in fact, ill make it exactly the same as that.

Ok I have made it, it looks like this
« Last Edit: April 04, 2008, 05:11:18 PM by Alexioco »

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Re: My Bessler Quest
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2008, 04:38:16 PM »
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Offline Dgraphic911

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Re: My Bessler Quest
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2008, 05:16:27 PM »
Don't bother, Just kidding,

I have the exact wheel pictured, pendulums and all, several sets. I am going to take pictures of them this weekend along with the pictures to my HOW TO start a wheel platform.



I always say try  but have done tons of working models witht the pendulums,

Mounted to the outside
mounted to the wheel at various pounts along the long shaft
Mounted to the axle
Fixed point at axle
rotating point at axle
Mounted on heave side, mounted on opposite side ETC ETC

varied weights , balances, ratios ETC. have a wheel currently that has motive power for 75% of rotation. ANd it overweight 75 % of time. Just the other 25 is to heavy ????????? LOL

Used springs that help save the CF and translates that back into swinging/ flying through the air force. ETC ETC.

Still has the sticky spot that anyone who has come close knows of, it kind of reminds me of all the Magnet motors setups that go just about 99%. Just needs that little oomph.

I'll take pictures of the setups i have, not every variation because it would be way to much.

The "pendulum" as its been call ;) design has some very interesting aspects of advanced math that i believe stil have much room to be explored

Some are
isogonic-jacobi theorum
schiffler points
euler lines
incircles
excircles
Feuerbach points
newton-gauss lines
etc etc

Offline Alexioco

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Re: My Bessler Quest
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2008, 05:30:17 PM »
Don't bother, Just kidding,

I have the exact wheel pictured, pendulums and all, several sets. I am going to take pictures of them this weekend along with the pictures to my HOW TO start a wheel platform.



I always say try  but have done tons of working models witht the pendulums,

Mounted to the outside
mounted to the wheel at various pounts along the long shaft
Mounted to the axle
Fixed point at axle
rotating point at axle
Mounted on heave side, mounted on opposite side ETC ETC

varied weights , balances, ratios ETC. have a wheel currently that has motive power for 75% of rotation. ANd it overweight 75 % of time. Just the other 25 is to heavy ????????? LOL

Used springs that help save the CF and translates that back into swinging/ flying through the air force. ETC ETC.

Still has the sticky spot that anyone who has come close knows of, it kind of reminds me of all the Magnet motors setups that go just about 99%. Just needs that little oomph.

I'll take pictures of the setups i have, not every variation because it would be way to much.

The "pendulum" as its been call ;) design has some very interesting aspects of advanced math that i believe stil have much room to be explored

Some are
isogonic-jacobi theorum
schiffler points
euler lines
incircles
excircles
Feuerbach points
newton-gauss lines
etc etc

Why is this pendulum more effective than just a normal pendulum?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: My Bessler Quest
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2008, 05:30:17 PM »
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Offline Dgraphic911

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Re: My Bessler Quest
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2008, 05:43:23 PM »
IT IS NOT, imo


I don't belive i said it was a pendulum.

from another of p-motions threads that it is a celtic cross or was a measuring device.  I have no current feeling one way or another. And i try to stay away from interpretation.

I love some of the stuff that people have to say about what they thought was meant by  this statement or that clue, but for myself i try to stay as ignorant as possible to any interpretation so that i cannot be swayed into the wrong direction.


Maybe it was all misdirection on Besslers part. 

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: My Bessler Quest
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2008, 11:03:04 PM »
@ Alex

 I see you are using you brain. Keep up the good imagination, work it through by envisioning the movements as well as the negative movements. I have some grid that I am going to send you to print on clear sheet to put over your designs to help you see the possibilities.

PS did you get my PM message?

The grids are for you only so please don't post them. 

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Re: My Bessler Quest
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2008, 11:03:04 PM »
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Offline erickdt

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Re: My Bessler Quest
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2008, 01:33:00 AM »
I do believe that "pendulum" was actually the on switch/throttle  ;)

Offline Alexioco

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Re: My Bessler Quest
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2008, 01:59:43 AM »
@ Alex

 I see you are using you brain. Keep up the good imagination, work it through by envisioning the movements as well as the negative movements. I have some grid that I am going to send you to print on clear sheet to put over your designs to help you see the possibilities.

PS did you get my PM message?

The grids are for you only so please don't post them. 

Alan, I am truly honored for you to do this for me, I shall look right away, and I will not post them.

I am having trouble with this toy page, it really is hard, Bessler did in no way make this easy  :'(

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Re: My Bessler Quest
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2008, 01:59:43 AM »
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Offline fletcher

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Re: My Bessler Quest
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2008, 02:27:58 AM »
Very interesting indeed, I haven't read about MT 48, is there any link I can possibly read about the MT's, the ones he wrote about maybe?

Thanks :)

Also, would this wheel work?



Hi Alexioco .. see link

http://www.besslerwheel.com/wiki/index.php?title=MT_41-60

this is the besslerwiki page which contains lots of other useful information - Bessler only commented on the first 56 drawings & then the toy page with the odd word here & there - I purchased a copy of John Collins MT some time ago [free-energy.co.uk I think] which I like to leaf thru in preference to web pages myself.

While your drawing shows good imagination I don't believe that it will work in reality, finding & keeping the balance position - this is of course the major problem with all overbalance designs no matter how they are disguised or re-packaged - JMO's.

@ dgraphic .. I think Bessler was very practiced at verbal, written & pictorial misdirection - he liked to joust with his detractors [like Wagner] & those whom he thought might have great powers of reasoning from small clues loosely given & who might prematurely 'crunch' his secret into existence - this makes it particularly diffcult IMO to draw a bead on anything of proper significance or even decide what was essential in his motive principle.

Offline Alexioco

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Re: My Bessler Quest
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2008, 02:34:42 AM »
Very interesting indeed, I haven't read about MT 48, is there any link I can possibly read about the MT's, the ones he wrote about maybe?

Thanks :)

Also, would this wheel work?



Hi Alexioco .. see link

http://www.besslerwheel.com/wiki/index.php?title=MT_41-60

this is the besslerwiki page which contains lots of other useful information - Bessler only commented on the first 56 drawings & then the toy page with the odd word here & there - I purchased a copy of John Collins MT some time ago [free-energy.co.uk I think] which I like to leaf thru in preference to web pages myself.

While your drawing shows good imagination I don't believe that it will work in reality, finding & keeping the balance position - this is of course the major problem with all overbalance designs no matter how they are disguised or re-packaged - JMO's.

@ dgraphic .. I think Bessler was very practiced at verbal, written & pictorial misdirection - he liked to joust with his detractors [like Wagner] & those whom he thought might have great powers of reasoning from small clues loosely given & who might prematurely 'crunch' his secret into existence - this makes it particularly diffcult IMO to draw a bead on anything of proper significance or even decide what was essential in his motive principle.

wow, he commented on the first 56 drawinings? now that must be valuble information, I take it is that wiki link to the 56 descriptions, thanks :)
« Last Edit: April 05, 2008, 03:03:51 AM by Alexioco »

Offline Alexioco

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Re: My Bessler Quest
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2008, 03:40:10 AM »
You know the workings of Besslers wheel you say?

Offline Alexioco

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Re: My Bessler Quest
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2008, 04:11:14 PM »
There are a few things in his MT which are obvious if you compare them to other wheels and his descriptions, but it is the prime mover that you need, and the prime move has something to do with a weight replacing another weight IMO even on the descending side which sounds useless, but if you analyze it you may find something, but I do not know the movement, and I should think that you don?t either...

 

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