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Author Topic: Most efficient method of electrolysis?  (Read 27990 times)

Offline BradleyH20

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Most efficient method of electrolysis?
« on: March 29, 2008, 12:05:21 AM »
I am in the middle of much research trying to find the most efficient means of electrolysis. I am not looking to stan meyers device or anything like that. I'm talking 12VDC electrolysis with distilled water and an electrolyte. It seems everyone has a different opinion as to what works best. I just want to find out What is the most efficient design. Plates? Tubes? Stepped gaps? ETC?
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Offline Aka

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Re: Most efficient method of electrolysis?
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2008, 04:37:32 AM »
I have also looked at various designs to try and find which is best so I am looking forward to seeing what replies you get here

also the designs I have seen most use stainless steel but I have heard someone say his worked well with other metals so are there any other types of metal that work well? aluminium? I know copper, brass and iron are not good because they react with the water

I am still new to hydrogen production so I am trying to research more about the experiments people have already done and what areas to continue experiments which may be worth exploring
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Offline buzneg

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Re: Most efficient method of electrolysis?
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2008, 06:24:19 AM »
smacks booster is most popular right now on the yahoo groups "watercar" and "hydroxy" If I did my math right it's 83.4% efficient. There's a couple designs for sale on ebay though which

this ebay seller has an overunity cell, but he's probably wrong

""It has been lab tested and produces +-2 ltr per min of HHO

AT 13.8Volts DC 16 amps""

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&item=300207284531



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Offline BradleyH20

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Re: Most efficient method of electrolysis?
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2008, 07:05:39 AM »
Yeah I know about the smacks boosters, I used to have 2 of them installed in my 4 cyl car. I had a huge increase in power but never got my efie adjusted right as it was the dead of winter and I could never get a good constant production. I used isopropyl alcohol to keep the water from freezing and a ton of baking soda, in 10 degree weather both units would only draw about 1 amp each. On a warm day they would always runaway on me. The smack booster produces 2lpm at 20 amps, but once your amperage draw is that high the water heats up pretty fast, and then you go into runaway mode. Before you know it your pulling major amps and blowing fuses. Since then I have sold both of my smack boosters and have tried to find a better way to produce. I have been told and heard from several sources that tubes produce over 3 times more hydrogen than plates do. I would like to find a test where someone could get tubes and plates with the same surface area, at the same amperage and measure the output. We'll see, maybee I'll have to do that some day???
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Spewing

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Re: Most efficient method of electrolysis?
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2008, 08:10:01 PM »
You Have 2 Choices when it comes to generating hydroxy threw electrolysis not including chemical reactions.

The first is to use additives with amp Flow, you get the most gas this way, but requires additives and amps.

The second is to use Un-Pure DC With no additives, this requires Kinetic energy from a driver motor or crankshaft to power an altered alternator, one that is not pure at its output also requiring pulses of the rotor. Pure DC will grab the water and not let go, in the above option you use koh to cure this. Pulses with the alternator will grab the water and let go of it, then repeats. When you use only a battery the power from the battery grabs holt to the water, it doesn't like to let go so it turns to heat and your hydrogen output sucks and isn't very efficient. The use of Koh somehow Cures the problem, but yet you use more amps.

Additives and Koh will out perform Pulsed DC, while Pulsed Dc is more efficient than using additives. The hydroxy production rate for pulsed DC is under using additives. but pulsed DC is more efficient than additives when according to power used.

You cant go wrong either way, but if you use additives, your hydrogen is effected and burns dirty and slow, where if you use no additives the oxygen in the hydrogen remains clean. This makes a big difference when you're using it to run an engine. if you use additives it will run more like a diesel where using no additives will run more like a car.  If you was to use koh you could use a Blower to introduce more air into the intake, where not using koh the hydrogen contains clean oxygen, a clean burn. if you're worried about the hydroxy having to much oxygen then you should understand, gasoline is mixed 14 ambient air to 1 part gas. hydroxy contains 2 3rds hydrogen and 1 3rd oxygen. you can see you clearly need more ambient air with this mix so no membrane is needed to seperate the hydroxy gas from the oxygen.

when using pulsed dc more units can be added more easily. When using additives you have a limit because of the size of the power source. Either method is ok, but very few hold the knowlege to using pulsed DC the proper way, so the easier route to take would be to use additives and a blower, unless you can get around the blower part.   
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Offline buzneg

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Re: Most efficient method of electrolysis?
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2008, 10:15:32 PM »
very good post, I'm shocked by how much I'm still learning. But there is a mistake

"gasoline is mixed 14 ambient air to 1 part gas. hydroxy contains 2 3rds hydrogen and 1 3rd oxygen. you can see you clearly need more ambient air with this mix so no membrane is needed to seperate the hydroxy gas from the oxygen. "

The reason why so much ambient are is needed is because air is 80% Nitrogen, there's only 20% Oxygen in it. And fuel vapour is probably more H atom dense, and/or C atom dense, which requirs 2 O atoms to make CO2.

If additives dirty up the O as you say then the O may be made less useful, cause a percentage of it is probably part of some other ion, or molecule, therefore more air would be needed to replace that O.
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Offline vdubdipr

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Re: Most efficient method of electrolysis?
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2008, 05:17:31 AM »
hey spewing.... at the risk of sounding stupid, which im willing to take.... how would i make un-pure dc? and what?  this is the first time ive heard the term un pure dc.  thanks in advance... i tried to look it up first and i couldnt find anything on this..
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Offline rockinricki

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Re: Most efficient method of electrolysis?
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2008, 07:33:17 AM »
I too am chasing HHO as my prime energy sorce and quite new to it as well. I have found out many things in these past weeks and months that might help you out. First it is well to rememeber that this is a repressed,, misrepersented,, mistrusted and sometimes condemed technology by the governments and oil industry for good reason,,, yes thats right thier bottom line,,, its all about money. For the most part all of the other posts are accurate,, but I have found that differant reactors work slightly differant,, so ask youself what are you going to use it for,,, your car or truck,,, a cutting torch maybe,,, home heating or???? I have found that wire and screen work very well as there is a lot of surface area,,, not just on one side but all over the wire. I don't use lye or salt or anything else but H2O and avoid overheating or the runaway effect,,, I have the best results with well water but rain or snow water works well too although it takes time for the purer water to 'naturize' to the reactor but it dosen't grundge up as bad or as fast. The well water gets some grundge in it after a while but as the water heats up it dosen't seem to affect the production of gas to any great extent. I don't use any kind of pulse generater I found it is just extra hardware and it works very well without it. Regular 12vdc from a battery or charger works well for me.The production can be inhanced when under vacuum with more production and with somewhat less working amps (the reactor stays cooler). A small diafram pump works well as there are no sparks and runs cool to the touch. Put a header tank above the reactor or it will suck in the H2O or electorlite.  Where I live there are huge challenges to over come in the winter time for use in any car or truck, so my focus is on home heating and eletricity production and bulk production for storage and later use. I hope this helps you out best wishes RZ
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Offline ramset

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Re: Most efficient method of electrolysis?
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2008, 12:55:54 PM »
ROCKIN I also am more interested in home heating  and like the idea of straight water  are you having any success ? THe Stiffler thread here has some HHo work with distilled water that should be  very  very interesting   also Bob Boyce has  a DC circuit as described above for running cars   HUGE HHO production!!!   PS I THINK STIFFLER IS GOING TO CHANGE EVERYTHING  as far as HHO is concerned  A MUST WATCH if your into hydrogen      Chet
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Offline ramset

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Re: Most efficient method of electrolysis?
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2008, 02:04:36 PM »
THIS MORNINGS NEWS  NYC  USA HOME HEATING OIL $4.11 a gallon  WHO is going to keep GRANDMA and GRANDPA warm this coming winter???  I know the oil heat in my house went off last week and I'm not turning it back  on  I have 6 months and I don't plan on Freezing [of course I haven't told the wife yet] Chet
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Offline Creativity

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Re: Most efficient method of electrolysis?
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2008, 02:23:56 PM »
vacuum production has not been provend yet to my knowledge.How have u measured the output that u state (rockinricki)?

there is some discussion going on about it under:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4216.0.html

to reduce the amps so it wont heat up too much use less KOH or NaOH.U can find an optimum between the temp and production rate.Heat is mainly due to the ions movement,the more ions u have (more KOH) the more of them moves raising the heat.
stainless steel works just fine for electrodes.Connect electrodes in series to reduce the voltage to around 2V per cell.Separate the cells best so u will reduce the currents between the cell and the surrounding cells(ions take there a longer journey and loose a lot of energy into heating up of the electrolyte).With this advices u will stay with moderate temp and high production,efficiency of electrodes is what i am in to right now,stay tuned.

@spewing

Interesting theories u have there,but the oxygen/air ratio's calculations of fuel air is what u miss understood.I made an effort in other post to calculate engine needs for HHO check it, update your knowledge on AFR.U will also see that engine would run very lean on air/HHO mixture...

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4424.msg89308.html#msg89308

Running on hot electrolyte makes more water vapour so that is one point of too much KOH in the electrolyte.Second thing is u will produce more mass of HHO so your engine will need more adjustment comparing to small amounts produced in other ways.That is the engine running like diesel effect and has nothing to do with oxygen being dirty.Flame speed is high causing stronger detonations and makes engine run harder.Smoother operation on HHO from other cells is due to the less HHO they produce.Engine was not tuned correctly thus.
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Offline drewdog

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Re: Most efficient method of electrolysis?
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2008, 04:55:53 PM »
I have the super hydro 2 unit. I have not installed it yet, i am bench testing it finalizing my solution mixture, but so far it works really well. I have the double unit. The best way I can describe his design is stainless washers mounted inside a stainless pipe. they have one charge the walls have another. the other nice design he uses is a bubbler that is connected to the generator both for output and return. it makes  a nice circulation that tends to cool your liquid. i think you could do the same for smacks design, but it would have to be in the engine bay or in front of the radiator. basically the gas and liquid come out feed to tank and the bottom of tank goes back to the bottom of the generator. it is a full immersion unit and the hydro carries fluid with it to the tank. nice idea and it works fairly well. i cannot reach one of my o2 sensors, thank you ford. so i have been waiting to install unit to verify savings. will install anyway this week.
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Offline Sprocket

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Re: Most efficient method of electrolysis?
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2008, 05:27:01 AM »
Quote from: ramset on April 17, 2008, 12:55:54 PM
ROCKIN I also am more interested in home heating  and like the idea of straight water  are you having any success ? THe Stiffler thread here has some HHo work with distilled water that should be  very  very interesting   also Bob Boyce has  a DC circuit as described above for running cars   HUGE HHO production!!!   PS I THINK STIFFLER IS GOING TO CHANGE EVERYTHING  as far as HHO is concerned  A MUST WATCH if your into hydrogen      Chet

Yep, Stiffler is onto somethig big it appears - though as the water appears to become o2 saturated, it might be a fire hazard (a bit ironic!) :)

Here is the video in question: http://hk.youtube.com/watch?v=k1pJEz0YGlQ
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Offline Magnethos

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Re: Most efficient method of electrolysis?
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2008, 12:51:12 PM »
Hi, the most efficient method of electrolysis that I have seen until now is one that appears in a youtube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHxAebQoFHE

This guy claims that he has invented this method, but I haven?t been able to find more information about it.
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Offline Sprocket

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Re: Most efficient method of electrolysis?
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2008, 12:23:41 AM »
Quote from: Magnethos on April 18, 2008, 12:51:12 PM
Hi, the most efficient method of electrolysis that I have seen until now is one that appears in a youtube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHxAebQoFHE

This guy claims that he has invented this method, but I haven?t been able to find more information about it.


Impressive video. However Dr. Stifflers method is much more efficient:

ddanvos68: 5,000 * 30mA = 150W
Stiffler = 20 * 9mA = 0.18W

That's about 800 times more efficient :)

Of course, he is probably creating a lot more hydrogen.  Either way, these developments really make a mockery of the conservation of energy dogma...
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