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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: emanresu on March 27, 2008, 03:12:28 AM

Title: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: emanresu on March 27, 2008, 03:12:28 AM
Hi, I was about to start on an SSG as my first project, but I've just watched Energy from the Vaccuum Part 2 and what really grabbed my attention were the toys shown about 43 minutes in, which appeared to run without any battery or circuit.

The first model was basically two wheels, the inside perimeters of which were lined with magnets, which alternately passed a coil which was placed at right angles to the two wheels. He just started it manually and it kept running. The second was a counterbalanced pendulum. Again he just started it manually and I couldn't see any wires attached to it.

So, has Bedini released any information to groups about these toys?

Thanks
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: WilbyInebriated on March 27, 2008, 05:09:04 AM
the wooden one was just an sg with the guts hidden underneath, same with the counterbalanced pendulum. in fact on that one you can see the bulge where the coil is tucked underneath.
if you build a bicycle wheel sg you can unbalance the wheel by only putting on one magnet and get the same effect as the counter balanced pendulum. hope that answers your question.

check out the 'toy' he shows at the very end of the video, while the credits are rolling, big coil with splatter coils? lighting bulb pretty bright.
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: emanresu on March 27, 2008, 07:08:12 AM
Ah ;D I'll check out the end of the video again, thanks.
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: Ren on March 27, 2008, 07:26:35 AM
Hendershot device. ;)
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: emanresu on March 27, 2008, 02:30:35 PM
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Hendershot+device

That's a new one on me, thanks  :)

Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: amigo on March 28, 2008, 12:13:31 AM
Yeah I was wondering about that wooden toy motor as well, I wish he lifted it up to show us there are guts beneath so that there's no confusion...

Here's a video clip for those interested to see: http://mihd.net/1e49k8m   (click on Request Ticket, then click Download)
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: Koen1 on March 28, 2008, 01:16:54 PM
I thought "Bedini SG motor" stood for Bedini's so-called "School Girl" motor?
Which is simply an incorrect term for a variation of the Bedini pulse motors,
in my opinion...

Still find reports of batteries that have run such motors for years, then
all of a sudden go ultra-dead, and then need to be put in a grid-powered
charged to "recuperate", during which they pull several times the
supposed total battery power before starting to recharge.
And still the guys I know who have worked on this for years say
it seems to work for a while, but they claim to all have run into
this "deep cycling" problem...

I still say make one work without a battery as crucial circuit component,
start it from a battery jolt then run it off capacitors,
and if that works, then I'll jump on the Bedini bandwagon with you guys,
but so far I have not seen any that don't need a battery. And this
makes me a bit suspicious. If the Bedini motor really puts out more
than it needs to run, it should not be very difficult at all to run it off
capacitors, should it? So why then, after all these years (decennia even)
is it still not happening?
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: WilbyInebriated on March 30, 2008, 03:53:33 AM
the 'school girl' moniker came from the fact that a elementary school aged girl built machine using a variation of JB's circuit given to her by JB. how you came to the 'opinion' that this is incorrect eludes me...
they are quite simple to build, why not build one using caps and let us know your results?
perhaps in your 'research' you have missed the point. dead batteries can be brought back to usable states. it is possible to charge a number of batteries with one. even if the battery 'suddenly dries up' you go get another one that has been thrown out as 'unusable'. making it a 'self runner' never was and never should be the point.
you can build one (for under $50) or you can remain suspicious i guess.
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: Koen1 on March 30, 2008, 03:20:53 PM
the 'school girl' moniker came from the fact that a elementary school aged girl built machine using a variation of JB's circuit given to her by JB. how you came to the 'opinion' that this is incorrect eludes me...
Because it is like you say a version of the typical Bedini motor. To act as if it is something different and refer to it as "the SG" seems misleading... Well, you can call it what you want. But it's still just another variation of the "standard" Bedini setup.
Quote
they are quite simple to build, why not build one using caps and let us know your results?
I don't build one because it is a lot of hassle, because I am busy with a totally different device at the moment and will be for quite some time still,
and because there are guys on here who have already built Bedini motors and could quite easily adapt one to use caps.
Quote
perhaps in your 'research' you have missed the point. dead batteries can be brought back to usable states. it is possible to charge a number of batteries with one. even if the battery 'suddenly dries up' you go get another one that has been thrown out as 'unusable'. making it a 'self runner' never was and never should be the point.
No, you are missing the point.
The batteries don't go "flat" to simply be recharged, like any flat battery.
They go "dead": they need to be recharged with X times the energy you would normally use to charge them fully.
In other words: the energy gained in the "free energy" operation of the Bedini battery "back-poppers" appears
to somehow still come from the batteries, and when they go "dead", all that "excess" energy needs to be
put back into the batteries. Not normal recharge, massively increased recharge.
That's just the point I'm making.
Oh, and yes, making it a "self runner" should obviously be the goal.
Are you seriously suggesting that you want to have a Bedini motor that does not self-run,
that does not produce "free energy", and is simply a normal motor that runs on batteries
which need to be recharged?
If that's what you believe, you have missed a large part of Bedinis theory and stories, I guess.
Bedini clearly claimed a "free energy" device, that could provide motive power off a battery
which does not run out because it is recharged by "negative energy" in the process,
or could recharge more batteries than it runs on without providing motive power.
I am pointing you toward the "dead" battery phenomenon that people have experienced
with Bedinis motors and the "deep cycle discharge" explanations that have been suggested,
which if true mean that there is no "free energy" process going on.

Quote
you can build one (for under $50) or you can remain suspicious i guess.
Have you actually built one?
I have heard many a story of people who tried to build one mainly for the reason
that it is cheap, but many have not been able to get it to run. Some have gotten
it to work, but say it is not really usefull, as he motor cannot provide usefull
power and the batteries don't get significant recharge, an even though they
can get it to run for long periods they can't actually pull energy from it...
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: WilbyInebriated on March 31, 2008, 03:16:45 AM
Because it is like you say a version of the typical Bedini motor. To act as if it is something different and refer to it as "the SG" seems misleading... Well, you can call it what you want. But it's still just another variation of the "standard" Bedini setup.

yes, a version a school girl built, the simple version to demonstrate the principle... and thats how it got the moniker... because a school girl replicated it, get it? this is a fact, documented by a newspaper article. you are welcome to your opinions.
I don't build one because it is a lot of hassle, because I am busy with a totally different device at the moment and will be for quite some time still,
and because there are guys on here who have already built Bedini motors and could quite easily adapt one to use caps.
alot of hassle to wind a bifilar coil and solder a transistor a resistor and a diode?  LMFAO perhaps you have armchair quarterback syndrome? when you were in school did you have other kids do your homework? there is a 'point' to doing it yourself... the obvious one is you can perform the experiment, whatever it may be, to your own exacting standards. you can measure the input and output power, be it reactive, real or true. sure i could convert to caps and do it for you, but i'm sure whatever the result, i wont have done it 'correctly'. cure your own skepticism or don't, i don't care, but step back from the bandwagon ;)

No, you are missing the point.
The batteries don't go "flat" to simply be recharged, like any flat battery.
They go "dead": they need to be recharged with X times the energy you would normally use to charge them fully.
In other words: the energy gained in the "free energy" operation of the Bedini battery "back-poppers" appears
to somehow still come from the batteries, and when they go "dead", all that "excess" energy needs to be
put back into the batteries. Not normal recharge, massively increased recharge.
That's just the point I'm making.
Oh, and yes, making it a "self runner" should obviously be the goal.
Are you seriously suggesting that you want to have a Bedini motor that does not self-run,
that does not produce "free energy", and is simply a normal motor that runs on batteries
which need to be recharged?
If that's what you believe, you have missed a large part of Bedinis theory and stories, I guess.
Bedini clearly claimed a "free energy" device, that could provide motive power off a battery
which does not run out because it is recharged by "negative energy" in the process,
or could recharge more batteries than it runs on without providing motive power.
I am pointing you toward the "dead" battery phenomenon that people have experienced
with Bedinis motors and the "deep cycle discharge" explanations that have been suggested,
which if true mean that there is no "free energy" process going on.

yes i am seriously suggesting that, a more efficient battery charger than the one you buy at sears. one that can 'charge' a battery that your sears 'amp pusher' wont even charge anymore because it sees it as an infinite amount of resistance. more armchair quarterbacking from someone who claims winding a bifilar coil and soldering a 4 component circuit is "too much of a hassle" LOL
Have you actually built one?
yes i have
I have heard many a story of people who tried to build one mainly for the reason
that it is cheap, but many have not been able to get it to run. Some have gotten
it to work, but say it is not really usefull, as he motor cannot provide usefull
power and the batteries don't get significant recharge, an even though they
can get it to run for long periods they can't actually pull energy from it...
the rotor part of the energizer is not meant to provide large amounts of torque, in fact you don't even need a rotor, so that line of argument is mute. again you clearly demonstrate your superior understanding of bedini's work, without having replicated his work... neat trick, show me how to do that sometime will you?
my batteries recharged just fine, and after many cycles done with a small 5v lithium it lasts much longer, but never mind all that, its just to much of a hassle for you and we will leave it at that.
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 31, 2008, 04:26:16 AM
I have decided to build a small version of the Bedini SG motor.  I have been collecting parts.  I am going to use the head bearings from an old vcr as the rotor.  My main interest at this point is to "resurrect" my cell phone bat. which only last about an hour of talk time now.  I have seen several videos of people doing just this.  They say it makes the battery last longer than when they first bought it.  This alone would save me over $50.00 and I know I can build one for less than that.  If that works, I am going to zap my laptop batteries which will save me about $150.00 (more than the laptop is worth) if it works.  I know I can buy the batteries and repair the laptop cell myself for about $40.00 but this would be more fun if it works.

Then, I want to try to power the Bedini motor from my earth battery cells.  I also want to try the super caps things as I have been playing with them in the Earth battery experiments all along.  They are much better than any battery I have ever seen or used.

I am trying to keep an open mind and do not expect miracles.  No matter what happens, I will be having fun and surely learn a thing or two along the way. (Unless it blows up, ha ha)

Bill
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: WilbyInebriated on March 31, 2008, 05:06:19 AM
I have decided to build a small version of the Bedini SG motor.  I have been collecting parts.  I am going to use the head bearings from an old vcr as the rotor.  My main interest at this point is to "resurrect" my cell phone bat. which only last about an hour of talk time now.  I have seen several videos of people doing just this.  They say it makes the battery last longer than when they first bought it.  This alone would save me over $50.00 and I know I can build one for less than that.  If that works, I am going to zap my laptop batteries which will save me about $150.00 (more than the laptop is worth) if it works.  I know I can buy the batteries and repair the laptop cell myself for about $40.00 but this would be more fun if it works.

Then, I want to try to power the Bedini motor from my earth battery cells.  I also want to try the super caps things as I have been playing with them in the Earth battery experiments all along.  They are much better than any battery I have ever seen or used.

I am trying to keep an open mind and do not expect miracles.  No matter what happens, I will be having fun and surely learn a thing or two along the way. (Unless it blows up, ha ha)

Bill

i know you know to exercise care with lithiums, here is my experience with doing what you are planning. the lithiums did not warm up at all, except when i was using probe tips contacting the + and - contact plate surface on the battery and the probe tips had vibrated slightly away from the battery creating a miniature spark gap. i fixed that right away but noticed the battery got very hot, but just at the area around that contact plate. once i made a more stable 'jig' to hold it all i never encountered that again. as far as input voltage, i played around a bit, anything from 3.3V up to 20V

earth cells powering bedini on the front end and charging super caps? or super caps on the front end? sounds cool either way.
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: Koen1 on March 31, 2008, 10:16:14 AM
@WilbyInebriated:
Dude, what is your problem?

I merely point out that I have heard tons of stories about and from people
building Bedini motors and other battery chargers who experience the
dead battery phenomenon. It is well known and even Bedini and Bearden
mention it.

Why attack me for not actually building the thing?

Do I attack you for not building other devices? No, I don't.

And when you have a Bedini motor that can power your house,
or run your car, then I'll be severely impressed.
But impressed with you trying to burn me for not building one,
i am not.
Do you not see that is beside the point? It is not what I was talking about.
But hey, if you choose to refuse to listen to my story about the
dead battery thing, that's cool, just don't harass me with your
building zeal either then, ok?
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: WilbyInebriated on March 31, 2008, 10:35:10 AM
lets see, you come into this thread where someone is thinking about building a bedini device and asking about some of the demonstration devices bedini has shown, you contribute nothing to the threads main topic and attempt to derail it by an entirely negative post backed by your third party hearsay knowledge and i have a problem? LOL

still not sure where you think i attacked you, please point out the sentence that offended you.

"tons of stories"? yeah ;) and i've told you a million times not to exaggerate. i'm not 'harassing' you with some imaginary zeal... let me be blunt since you didn't get when i was civil. you haven't built one, you have no personal experience to add, all you have brought to the table is some "i heard this from a friend of a friend" and all of that was negative.  why try and talk someone out of an experiment based on your third party knowledge?

i saw 3 points to your first post:
1 to call it a school girl is 'wrong'
2 batteries 'dry up', you didn't mention that this is a side effect of using just voltage to charge the battery.
3 your 'conditions' to get you on the bandwagon.
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: Koen1 on March 31, 2008, 01:13:42 PM
lets see, you come into this thread where someone is thinking about building a bedini device and asking about some of the demonstration devices bedini has shown, you contribute nothing to the threads main topic and attempt to derail it by an entirely negative post backed by your third party hearsay knowledge and i have a problem? LOL

Haha! Yeah, that's funny.  ???
When did I "try to derail" anything?
I merely pointed out some things I think should be kept in mind.
I never told anyone not to attempt Bedini replications, did I?
Do not put words into my mouth or accuse me of doing things I did not do.

Quote
still not sure where you think i attacked you, please point out the sentence that offended you.
Well you have been quite (passively) aggressive in your reactions.
I don't see a reason for that.

Quote
"tons of stories"? yeah ;) and i've told you a million times not to exaggerate.
I am not exaggerating much. I I really have heard many stories about peoples batteries dying in some form of Bedini setup.
Quote
i'm not 'harassing' you with some imaginary zeal... let me be blunt since you didn't get when i was civil. you haven't built one, you have no personal experience to add, all you have brought to the table is some "i heard this from a friend of a friend" and all of that was negative.  why try and talk someone out of an experiment based on your third party knowledge?
Well, I think now I see why you are so upset. You misunderstood.
I am NOT trying to talk anyone out of any experiments!
I am merely pointing out that battery death has been reported in the context of the Bedini motors,
and that perhaps you should keep an eye on that possibility.
I am not claiming that the battery death phenomenon is necessarily going to act up, but
that I think it is something you should keep in mind when running tests on your motor
and batteries. And of course, if something like that occurs at all, it would only be after a
long time, so you'd only see it in long term tests.

Ans about your remarks dismissing my input as useless "third party hearsay";
come on man, as if you received the motor design from John Bedini himself personally.
Do not accuse me of referring to "third party" info, for you are yourself using "third party" info as well.
Or are you that "school girl" that personally got the design from Bedini? No, I didn't think so.

You may have built a version of that design. Well, great, and I applaud you for that.
But that still does not answer any questions about the battery phenomenon.
You may prefer to dismiss it as "negative" and "hearsay", instead of considering
the possibility and simply stating that you have not experienced anything like that
yourself. Fine. And you may indeed never encounter the phenomenon. Now I would
then take the latter to be positive feedback, since that would show that the claimed
"deep cycling" is not in fact happening and there is real OU taking place. But you
are of course free to dismiss the very idea of the "deep cycling"/"battery death"
reports.

I may not have built one, but I have built other types of pm, and I have been involved
in pm motor building for quite a while, including a group that tested several promising
designs incl some bedini variations. That was years ago already, but one thing that
was quite a thing in the discussions was that battery phenomenon, which was also
addressed by Bedini himself.

Also, as it is apparently unclear to you what I said, let us review:
Quote
i saw 3 points to your first post:
1 to call it a school girl is 'wrong'
Yes, I did say that in my opinion it is not correct to refer to it as "the schoolgirl motor"
because it is merely a simplified version of Bedinis standard motor concept.
So it is a Bedini motor of the design he shared with that "schoolgirl".
You could also call it "the science fair motor" if you'd like, for that was what the
"schoolgirl" used it for. But that does not change the fact that it is a Bedini motor.
Using terms as "SG" could confuse people, as the term is also used for totally different
things, like the famous Searl Generator for example.
But that was a minor point, more intended to simply be food for thought, and certainly not
a point of argument in my view.
Quote
2 batteries 'dry up', you didn't mention that this is a side effect of using just voltage to charge the battery.
No, I didn't mention the batteries "dry up" either, I said it is claimed that after a certain period of use,
the batteries appear to go "deader than flat". I did not mention what causes this because I am not sure
what does, so I don't really want to make any unfounded claims on that. I recall that back in the days
when the motor builders group I mentioned was still active, there were quite a lot of reports of Bedini
battery chargers and/or motors workign just fine for long periods, but then every once in a while
someone would report that their batteries went flat and needed a lot more grid-powered input to
recharge and become functional again. That is what I brought up, and what you seem to find such
a horrible an idea that you do not even want to think about it, and prefer to burn me for. Or at least,
that's what it sounds like, and if you claim you are not attacking me then why are your replies
so passively aggressive?
Quote
3 your 'conditions' to get you on the bandwagon.
Again you seem to be missing the point. I was on the bandwagon years ago, and still am,
but at present am involved in totally different experiments that require most of the spare
time I have. As tons of people have been and still are working on Bedini motors, I am sure
someone will figure out a way to turn one into something more usefull than a battery
charger, something like a direct output generator. When that happens, I may well decide
to build one. This is also why I nag about the use of capacitors instead of batteries:
if it is not a "deep cycle" battery-killing process that occurs in the Bedini motors,
and it is really producing OU, regardless of whether it is "back EMF capture" or "negative
energy spikes generated by a locally broken quantum symmetry" (the two most commonly
used explanations for why it works), then a version without batteries should work as well,
and in that case we should be able to use capacitors, and we should be able to upscale
the output into something we can use to power our homes on.
You could try that with tons of little batteries and charge them constantly, but it seems
to me that although the Bedini back-poppers are of an ingenious design, the "schoolgirl"
design will not be the solution to our energy "crisis".
In any case, the guys in those pm builders group have built and tested many versions,
and although selfrunners were built, none of those was able to actually produce
usefull amounts of output. The group was active for several years.
Oh, right, that's all invalid info as far as you're concerned, because it is "third party" info, I bet.
;)

So, for clarity:
1) by all means build a Bedini motor if you want
2) if you like, and you decide to run long term measurements, keep an eye on the battery
recharge time; perhaps regularly recharge the battery using a normal grid-powered
charger, see if they still charge in the same way and same time period. This could
provide more certainty about the entire claimed "dead battery" phenomenon.
3) I think using the term "SG" for a Bedini motor can be confusing as it is also
used for the Searl Generator for example.
4) I think we should ultimately try to build a Bedini motor without battery, as a self-running
power generator instead of a battery charger.
5) I am not trying to discourage anyone from building their devices
6) I am not trying to pick a fight or anything like that.
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: albert on March 31, 2008, 06:27:12 PM
Hello,
let me chime in here. I have built several small and large Bedini motors as can be seen in the thread "bedini replication in Germany."
I think that john never said that the OU is in the motor. It seems to come up in the batteries when they are conditioned to the Bedini charging process. So trying to run the SSG with capacitors only is not going to work. I have recently remade my initial ol' bike wheel motor with a fixed axle and new bearings. This way I can run a mechanical switcher off the axis of the bike wheel. I tried to run on caps only and could not get it to work. Perhaps it will work with some more coils doing recovery.

John has always claimed that his other fundamental design, the window motor, can work off a cap. This is a totally different geometry from the SSG. the coil goes 360 degrees around the device.

so dont be disappointed in the SSG. If you run it slowly, don't force too much energy into the charging battery and switch batteries at the right moment, you can make it deliver about 2-3 times the energy the batteries were charged with initially. At least that is my experience.

the wooden toys on the shelf seen in the Bedini video certainly have coils and a battery, they remind me of some commercial toys that could be bought several years ago. they run forever on a small battery as they only need a pulse every couple of seconds. Nothing new here!

Albert
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: WilbyInebriated on April 01, 2008, 04:32:32 AM
@koen1

so, for clarity:
more armchair quarterbacking.
more opinions about how it should be done by someone who has stated he wont do it.
more conditions to get you to do it.
more conjecture, no one in this thread has claimed the bedini sg to be the solution 'our' energy crisis. never did i say that hearsay was 'invalid', it is what it is... hearsay.

so its not possible that it is operator error that causes the batteries to go "deader than flat"? not proper impedance matching or any number of variables? it must be the machine? why not mention that? don't wanna make unfounded claims i know... see here's the gist... again, for clarity. you haven't built one so anything you say about it is hearsay. it is not hearsay when i speak of my experience or albert or ren does, because we have built replications. you say the wrong things because you haven't built one, example from your first post:
"Still find reports of batteries that have run such motors for years, then all of a sudden go ultra-dead, and then need to be put in a grid-powered charged to "recuperate", during which they pull several times the supposed total battery power before starting to recharge."
the batteries that RUN the motors aren't affected by this "deader than flat" problem, it is the CHARGE batteries that are.
the sg is not a powerhouse, it is a simple circuit to demonstrate the principle... what you do with that principle is up to you.
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: Koen1 on April 01, 2008, 09:50:27 AM
Yeah whatever dude. In many designs the run and charge batteries are the same thing.
But then again you seem to have serious trouble getting over the "SG" toy...

As far as the battery thing goes, it may have been "operator error", it may have been
bad batteries, it could be all kinds of stuff, but the main point it there was something
with the batteries going dead, even Bedini and Bearden noticed and mentioned it,
and you may not want to believe me but then at least do your own research into the
phenomenon instead of getting angry with me. It is not something I am trying to
sell you, it is something I know has been around and you, as the great Bedini motor
builder, might want to keep an eye on.
Do with it what you will, I'm out.
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: WilbyInebriated on April 01, 2008, 10:22:05 AM
we are talking about the "bedini sg" here, don't try and squirm out of this with some claim of some other variation... here is the circuit to refresh your memory,
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Bedini_SG:Schematic

where did i say i did not believe you? did i not in my last post state a little more clearly what you so horribly messed up? heres a quote from a post of yours from another thread chew on it for a bit...

"For someone who is constantly acting as if he is lecturing others and pointing out that they
are wrong, you are very good at overlooking your own enormous errors."

maybe i did misunderstand you... please show me in your first post where you gave the thread creator some positive encouragement to attempt a replication? all i saw was negative, first you came in stating "we" were all wrong for calling a bedini sg, great first impression... then later you claim its to avoid confusion with the searl generator. i think the bedini in front of the sg avoids that... you then expounded on a negative anomaly of the device, just enough to be negative and of course you couldn't go further without risking "unfounded claims". you then went on to tell us all how you would do it... if you were gonna. if someone does that you will jump on the band wagon with us... then later you ARE on the bandwagon with us? another neat trick ;)
then you made sure to tell us how this was suspicious to you, that no one seems to want to build it the way you think it should be done, followed by the summation about decennia even. all of this is encouraging to the first time builder how? no you didn't tell anyone NOT to build one but you sure painted a negative picture. you made sure not to encourage also... how unbiased ;)
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: Koen1 on April 05, 2008, 06:23:21 PM
What do you want from me? You want me to cheer you on while you build another "SG"?
Dude, if you need positive stimulation to do your experiments, then find it yourself.
I just pointed out what I think is worth keeping an eye on with regard to the battery,
and that the huge difference you seem to see between the "SG" and all other Bedini motors
is not at all that big in my opinion. But then again, you have clearly indicated not to
care about my opinion as it is "only armchair expertise" in your opinion, so I wonder
why you even want to argue about it at all... your using a quote of mine that is completely
out of context does not really support your ... well, let's call it argument. In that thread
claims of complete OU prediction are made by a man who has yet to show any supporting
evidence for his own claims, while in this thread here I merely pointed out what others
have observed and reported with regard to the Bedini motors.
Since you seem to have trouble understanding it, I'll say it one last time:
I am not trying to sell you the story, I am just pointing it out to you. What you do with it
is your thing, since you're the one working on Bedini motors. If you refuse to look into
the possibility of the "deep cycle charge" thing that some have suggested, that is all
fine with me, I don't care what you do. I thought you might like to look into it,
since most researchers like to study a phenomenon from different angles,
but apparently you do not want to even consider the possibility. Fine with me man,
do what you like. It's your party.
When you manage to run your car off an "SG", don't forget to post it eh?  ;)

Oh, and by the way, this thread is titled "Bedinid's Wooden Toys", not "the SG thread",
so no, we are not necessarily and only talking about the "SG" like you seem to be saying.
And please don't use this as a handle for yet another useless argument.
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: WilbyInebriated on April 08, 2008, 08:53:24 AM
since you seem to have trouble understanding it i will say it again... i want you to shut up.
what quote is out of context? and how do you come to the asinine conclusion that anyone thinks there is a "huge difference"? did anyone expound on these huge differences? if so i must have missed that, please show me where someone listed the "huge differences" or are you again making massive assumptions and conjecture? i have told you several times why i am willing to argue.
in the time it has taken you to post your negative "opinions" and argue you could have built and tested a bedini sg... oh yeah, too much hassle...whatever
i'll say it again, i'm not interested in your hearsay, i would bet no one is... if you have some data from your personal experience with a bedini sg please post it.
i HAVE looked into it, this "deep cycle charge issue", perhaps you missed that when i spoke of my 5v lithium tests. dr. peter lindemann spoke of this issue to some of us who were interested in replicating bedini's pendulum. i used a 5v to expedite the time it would take to run many charge/discharge cycles... again if you have any personal data great, if all you have is hearsay then shut up.

I DONT HAVE A CAR DUMB ASS, i stopped driving one over 5 years ago... i'm a doer not a talker.

yes the thread is titled ...wooden toys, BUT he stated he was going to build a bedini sg for his FIRST project. so yes, we are talking about his "toys" or the "SG" or you are off topic and derailing the thread... you didn't address the toy part of the subject, all you addressed was the sg part of the subject and as i mentioned earlier YOU WERE WRONG. then you tried to squirm out of that with some reference to some vague "sg" circuit where the run and charge batteries are the same thing (more bullshit). stop spreading disinformation.
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: Koen1 on April 08, 2008, 10:53:38 AM
I DONT HAVE A CAR DUMB ASS, i stopped driving one over 5 years ago... i'm a doer not a talker.
No, clearly you are a don'ter not a doer, otherwise you'd be driving a Bedini powered car or something.
How is abandoning a mode of transportation any solution to the shortage of fuel for that same mode?
That's almost like saying you solved the CO2 problem by removing the atmosphere ;)
Or like saying you solved the energy crisis: you stopped using energy.
Ok not really but you get the analogy and if you don't then tough luck.
Instead of actually moving forward, you moved back and call it forward.

Beside that, you're trying to give me a hard time about not adhering to the exact "SG" design,
trying to point out that other variations of the Bedini motors are somehow radically different and cannot
be compared at all, while you yourself then point out you have done tests with a lithium battery and
try to use that as an argument why my suggestions to look into "deep cycle charging" are invalid;
surely you see that your lithium battery version is in itself a variation of the "SG" an was not in the
original specs? So, mr consistency, how do you want to use your example of a variation as
proof that the original doesn't show "dsc", while at the same time getting upset with me for
not sticking solely to the original "SG" design when discussing the "dsc" phenomenon?
Exactly, that doesn't fly.

You're a whiner and an unfriendly asshole, that's what you are.
Now let's just both shut up about the entire thing and you can get back to playing with your toy,
while I can get back to my experiments. And this thread can die.
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: WilbyInebriated on April 08, 2008, 11:15:12 AM
i dont need a car, but clean, renewable, sustainable energy has other uses...DUH
i "abandoned" a car because there are cleaner, cheaper forms of transportation... ie: a bicycle or walking. some might call this moving forward, you call it moving backwards. as i said earlier, you're entitled to your opinions.
your analogies are ludicrous and not relevent. ie: CO2 is not a "problem" it is plant food, if we didn't have CO2 we wouldn't have plants and then we wouldn't have much O would we... if  i "had" an energy crisis, to stop using it WOULD solve it...

im not giving you a "hard time" about not adhering to the exact "SG" design, i'm giving you a hard time about spreading hearsay and incorrect information. i think that is more than clear by now...
where did i point out that other variations of the Bedini motors are somehow radically different and cannot be compared at all?
you neglected to show me the out of context quote, and the "huge differences"... lets stick to one thing before you  open a new hole
keep diggin that hole you are in at the moment though, you are good at that...

i'll throw you a bone and let you know why i brought up using lithiums vrs lead acid, although i have used lead acids as well. in fact i will steal a quote from you to do it.
"...since most researchers like to study a phenomenon from different angles..."

i havent whined about anything, i have spent most of my time in this thread pointing out your numerous errors and misconceptions, as well as your massive conjectures and assumptions... unfriendly, maybe, but you had it coming...
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: Koen1 on April 08, 2008, 11:40:14 AM
do I hear shit bubbling?
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: WilbyInebriated on April 08, 2008, 11:43:19 AM
nice response. i am very impressed with the  way you have addressed the points i brought up in my last post.
still waiting for the example of the out of context quote and explanation of how it was out of context...  AND the "HUGE differences"

expecting another sidestep...
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: Koen1 on April 08, 2008, 11:48:17 AM
Yep, I heard shit bubbling.
 :D

If you can't even figure that one out, I'm not going to strain your brain either.
Apparently the difference between making claims and not substantiating them
and pointing out a phenomenon was often mentioned is already too difficlult for you.

And I don't know what world you live in, but there is a fairly nice
global consensus on the CO2 and global warming thing.
Saying it is not a problem is just silly. I bet you don't consider
the predicted rising sea levels as a problem either, because
water is good for plants? ;)

As for where you pointed out that my suggestions are invalid according
to you on the basis of me talking about different Bedini variations and
saying the "SG" is just a variation of the standard Bedini concept,
just read your own posts.
If you consider that invalid, then your own remarks about your lithium
battery variation are equally invalid. A variation is a variation.

But never mind, you're just going to produce more whining anyway.

So let's just drop the entire thing.
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: WilbyInebriated on April 08, 2008, 11:53:18 AM
yup another side step, whats up koen? have no ground to stand on anymore? can't be rational? i have asked you to provide evidence of your asisine assumptions and conjectures and all you can say is something about shit bubbling? thats all you've got left?
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: Koen1 on April 08, 2008, 11:59:24 AM
Read the previous post.

No "sidesteps".

And since you're still not getting the difference:
I am not making claims, nor saying I have proof. Never did.
I was saying look into the deep cycle claims others made.
Now I'm saying shut up and let's drop this silliness.
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: WilbyInebriated on April 08, 2008, 12:08:16 PM
YES ANOTHER SIDESTEP, you didn't respond to  the HUGE DIFFERENCES OR THE OUT OF CONTEXT QUOTE.
i put them in all caps so you can't miss it this time....

yes you ARE making claims...
you claimed i quoted you out of context.
you claimed i said there were HUGE differences.
you claimed i said other variations of bedini motors are somehow radically different and cannot be compared at all.
you claimed in many designs the run and charge batteries are the same thing.
you claimed that your suggestions are invalid according to me on the basis of you talking about different bedini sg variations.
want me to go on picking your assumptions and conjectures apart? so you can avoid answering them?
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: Koen1 on April 08, 2008, 12:23:20 PM
If you can't even figure any of that out you must be too dumb to understand.

I am not going to keep repeating the same things that you are unable
or unwilling to grasp.

Bye
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: WilbyInebriated on April 08, 2008, 12:25:55 PM
please by all means elucidate your claims... i have looked and looked for where i allegedly said these things, cant find them. i can find lots of conjecture and assumption on your part, as well as just plain wrong information. the only thing unwilling around here is you, unwilling to back up your claims with evidence... they are simple questions, they have been put to you several times and you keep avoiding them.
bye, don't let the thread hit you in the ass on the way out ;)
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: scotty1 on April 08, 2008, 01:11:00 PM
You guy's know there is a debate thread for talk like this...
Why not go there and argue....
I would suggest that if none of you have working models to show running...YOU ARE ASKING FOLKS SIMPLY TO BELIEVE WHAT YOU SAY....by FAITH ALONE?
One of Bedini's motor's is said to be able to run on a cap......so why talk about some little motor that does nothing but spin around using power from a battery...when Bedini says you can use a cap with a different design?...that runs itself?
Why even worry about the SG motor?
Make the design that runs on a cap....or give me the exact circuit and i'll build the bloody thing....and there is the problem...there never is an exact circuit that will work everytime....It is the operator or the capacitance or the resistance or some other bloody thing you did wrong!
Sorry but to me that is all bullshit.......If a motor can work...then a drawing can be made that will work EVERYTIME...If the drawing is good it accounts for all the specifications required for operation.....
Has anyone ever built a working device as Bedini states that only uses a cap?
As i said...for anyone who thinks there is a schematic that will work everytime...send it to me and i'll build it.......
As an Engineering Patternmaker....I can build most things....even on the quiet......
One good drawing would change the world......just look at the a/c motor patents....they ALWAYS work.
Scotty.
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: WilbyInebriated on April 08, 2008, 01:24:33 PM
i said i have built one, koen said he hasnt... who cares if you "believe" us or not... i could post a youtube video and you could still claim it wasn't really me right? the sg doesnt spin around doing "nothing" you obviously have no idea what you are talking about... why worry about the "sg"? hrmmm maybe understanding the principles behind john bedini's circuits? how variations behave? using one battery that provides a discrete amount of power to the front end and can charge multiple batteries on the backend?
the cap motor you are refering to i believe is the window motor, i'm guessing here because you dont really seem to know yourself what design you are actually refering to. if you do mean the window motor that runs off a cap, google "bedini window motor" and have at building it, the "good drawings" have been on the internet for years now... should be a walk in the park for an "engineering paternmaker", although i can bounce your original suggestion back in your direction and suggest that you AREN'T a engineering paternmaker and are asking us to believe that ON FAITH ALONE ;)
the drawings are out there, i would post you a link, but you "claim" to be an engineering paternmaker so i think you can handle using google yourself ;)

naw i'm not THAT unfriendly ;) here you go bro
http://www.icehouse.net/john1/motor.html
although even if you do build one i might suggest that you havent ;)
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: emanresu on April 09, 2008, 04:33:08 PM
naw i'm not THAT unfriendly ;) here you go bro
http://www.icehouse.net/john1/motor.html

Although to be fair to Koen1, by asking about the toys I implied a desire to build a self runner; the irony of this thread is that I have more interest in producing the unidirectional current than in overunity. I asked about the toys on a whim ;D

Thanks for this link in any case. It's added some value to the disappointment that the toys were just SSG's.
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: WilbyInebriated on April 09, 2008, 10:11:39 PM
hi emanresu, glad the link helped. there are lots of great links scattered throughout the icehouse web site that are easy to miss so poke around a bit there. also energeticforum.com is a great site with people that are building such machines, including the window motor as well as the self oscillating circuits that need no rotor. dr. peter lindemann who worked closely with john for several years building variations of such circuits posts there often and is a great wellspring of knowledge and information. ren is member as is amigo, both of whom have posted wonderful info about their replications and results. here is a link to the pendulum thread which you may find interesting in respect to your desire for unidirectional impulses
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/995-bedini-pendulum.html#post14138
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 10, 2008, 12:22:28 AM
The one thing I have never understood about Bedini's pendulum devices is why he never fabricated a magnet to pass through a coil while the pendulum swings?  This would not be hard to do at all. (Think shake flash lights)  It would not generate a lot of juice but it would maximize the motion of the pendulum and would not add any drag in the bargain.  Has anyone done this anywhere?  The coil could be curved to match the arc of the swing and the magnet could be made to move inside the coil with an easily designed device. (I can post a picture of one design if needed)  If nothing else, it would help the pendulum continue for even longer times before battery switching.  Just a thought.

Bill
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: scotty1 on April 10, 2008, 10:13:18 AM
 ;D  Funny as mate.
Not a Patternmaker ay?
You know Patternmaker's are proud of their work.....and often take pictures...some of which may be seen here.
http://community.webshots.com/user/scott_l (http://community.webshots.com/user/scott_l)
Eat your heart out mate..... ;)
Check out my Les Paul guitars I made.....sweet as.... 8)
I love makin' stuff...it's kinda piling up all around my joint  :o
Like I said...i can make almost anything, and at the moment i'm making pumps for the oil rigs and other petro-chemical plants.....
I would rather work making free energy machines, but I would say that if the devices on that Bedini page worked, hundreds of people would have done it....
I myself made a pattern and cast up the metal bar with the slot in it from that very Bedini drawing.....It didn't work of course....duh.
As for the other Bedini drawings on that site, since they are so old...they do not work...it's simple.
If simple ideas like those are not quickly replicated...then they don't work except as motors.
As far as i know...nobody got a window motor with only a cap...to self run.
I've seen the Bedini video of it...but that is not independent.
If engineers had as hard a time replicating formula's as folks had on bedini's drawings then we would have no power at all...........but we would all be experts on batteries?
Bedini is a hard worker...no doubt about that...but a good free energy machine will be able to be replicated easily...if not then it is no good and cannot be used on an industrial scale.
Now on the other hand, if the devices did work as shown then that means everybody is very,very, lazy, and I don't think that is the case.
I like to think many people work hard on these things, but i would not declare an O.U device unless it worked according to a solid plan, able to be replicated EVERYTIME.
I would not feel good if i designed a motor and nobody could ever make one themselves.
The energy is everywhere, and i think one day the problem may be solved, but non working devices will always be just that.
Scotty
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: Ren on April 10, 2008, 11:36:16 AM
Scotty, I have read about the magnet motor that matches your cutout. Bedinis comments were that Ron Cole (who built the device with him) tinkered around with it for weeks before he got it to sustain rotation. It was barely limping along though and its probably not worth the effort unless built on a HUGE scale. (By the way, that picture above is not geometrically correct, which is the definitive factor between a working device and a lump of steel) Love your work though, I believe you have done a few Ed Lee replications no? Perpetual motion holder?

In regards to self running.

The window motor has been shown to self run and a few people have suposedly done successful replications. Unfortunately there are always skeptics and doubters, along with people who lie or use deception so I guess the only way to find out is to prove it to yourself. So saying the window motor is not overunity, (nothing is in my opinion, how can you have more than total unity?) it is a UNITY device. It is possible to tap into more than you use which is what some people may classify as overunity. In that case a windmill or solar panel is OU.

The problem arises with the window motor that people dont replicate fully. One reason being that there are exact schematics for a given wire length, but the wire length is not given (it is if you know where to look ;)). So people build the circuit and wonder why it doesnt work when their resistances dont match their coils geometry or their magnets arent up to spec etc.

I have built a number of Bedini replications by the way, including a basic window motor that was not to spec. That basic model would rotate off less than  2 volts and a poofteenth of a milliamp. I will be building a window motor with large magnets as my next project, perhaps with some luck and effort you guys will have another replication to tear apart and critize.....


Oh and by the way, I found the previous remarks exchanged between Koen and Wilby a complete waste of bandwidth. If your here to knock stuff you have limited or hearsay knowledge about you should keep it to yourself, it is only counter productive.

PS. The pendulum device as seen on EFTV2 blocked up to 99% percent  of current flow, evident by the charge being retained on the front end despite it running for a reasonable length of time. It was designed to test charging batteries with pure radiant, and worked really well at first. Over time the battery simply dried up and was unrepairable, leading John to realise that some current is needed to charge the battery and that pure voltage was not enough!
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: WilbyInebriated on April 10, 2008, 11:46:25 PM
If your here to knock stuff you have limited or hearsay knowledge about you should keep it to yourself, it is only counter productive.

exactly my point in refuting him ren, im sick and tired of people who haven't even bothered to construct a simple school girl hacking on john bedini's work and telling us how it should be done.

Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: Ren on April 11, 2008, 12:05:55 AM
If your here to knock stuff you have limited or hearsay knowledge about you should keep it to yourself, it is only counter productive.

exactly my point in refuting him ren, im sick and tired of people who haven't even bothered to construct a simple school girl hacking on john bedini's work and telling us how it should be done.



Too true.
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: scotty1 on April 14, 2008, 01:01:48 PM
So I was right... now i need to know where to find certain wire lengths...usually i would look to the drawing for that... ???
No offence..but I work in the real world where every line and dimension has a proper function, and if it is not on my drawings then i will have to have the draftsman fix it.
I wouldn't sign my name to a model if the drawing i used was incomplete in every part.
That is my argument.
If you guy's think you can present all the correct information, why hasn't it been done?..It's not my fault...I will build you a motor with a lovely bronze cast base and flowers coming out...and forge its frame in the fire, but not with SOME of the information.
I believe it can be done..but it should be put together and presented  as a whole...free and fully functioning.
Scotty.


Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: Ren on April 15, 2008, 02:11:17 AM

No offence....


None taken Scotty, and you have a very valid point. The thing is, it is one thing to build said machine and another to fully understand it. And if you are given plans for exact duplication, then that is all you get, and not an understanding of WHY it works. It may make no difference to some, the person who just wants to plug his device in and benefit from it without understanding why it works. I myself started out this way but I soon discovered that if I was to remain ignorant of the principles that I wouldnt get too far.

I wish there was a simple plan to follow in exactness, there are some pretty close ones however which leave only a little experimenting and tinkering to do (in regards to the window motor). The biggest issue is the tolerances and variables. Like your yoke you made above, if but one part is different then it affects the whole and other parts may need to be altered as well.

The simple SG monopole while seeming very basic has a number of variables which are often taken for granted. Take for instance coil shape, size, core material, number of winds (all of which effect the inductional properties and thus the functioning) etc. Most people dont take into consideration that the magnet may be one of the most important considerations, and that it is fairly difficult to measure many of the properties of the magnet itself, and whether it is a match in more than just size to its brethren on the rotor.

Perhaps more complete construction plans will be available at sometime, but they are only going to come out if the people who do their homework decide to share it with the world. If you have a genuine need to study and replicate the window motor then I can only offer you what I have found in regards to its finer points of construction, like window dimensions. Perhaps I can offer even more once I have studied it further.

Shan
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 15, 2008, 02:24:05 AM
@ Ren:

Once again, I have a question for you.  I hope I have not asked too many.  As I mentioned, I am using a vcr hub for the Bedini motor replication. (Very good idea to encase the magnets like you did, high rpm makes for bad things if magnets fly off unexpectedly) Can this small motor work off of 9 volt rechargeable batteries?  Some say 6 volts ok, and others say it has to be at least 12.  My only thought for using the smaller batteries, beside the cost savings, is that it would shorten the time required to see what is actually going on with the system.  Instead of waiting hours to drain a car sized battery, I should be able to see results faster with the smaller bats IF you think they have enough juice to run the motor.

I thank you for sharing your knowledge.

Bill
Title: Re: Bedini's Wooden Toys
Post by: Ren on April 15, 2008, 03:39:15 AM
Ask away mate ;) There is no reason why it wont mate, given the correct resistance on the trigger winding. But you have to understand something about batteries.  For optimum life span the lead acid battery is recommended to be discharged at its C20. This means if it is a 20 amp hour battery it should be discharged at 1 amp over 20 hours. This wont change if you move to 9 volts or even to 24 volts. Nicads are a different story, but you should have extensive knowledge and strict safety precautions if these are used. You may find that at 24 volts your energizer draws 2 amps at its sweet spot thus a 40 amp hour battery would be needed to maintain C20.

My perspex rotor will run for a considerably long time off a disposable 9 volt if amp draw is set to 25ma. Then again, the amps can be set up to 250ma, and at this discharge pace it will most likely be dead flat after an hour. You may find that a smaller rotor is harder to start, and contains less weight and thus less inertia or flywheel effect. It should still run off 9 volts though. One of my small window motors ran off 2 volts. The air gap may need adjustments for low voltage as well.

I highly suggest joining the bedini monopole3 group to understand better the basic principles of the vanilla SG. Alot of people see it as an overunity device and are quickly discouraged when they realise it will not charge multiple batteries off one battery in its simplest form. In its simplest flavour it is only ever a unity or close to unity device depending upon its construction. The circuit has losses, the coil has resistance etc... The whole project is designed to show the principles and allow others to study the nature of both energy types and how they can be utilized. When someone has a much better understanding of these principles they can try different designs or experiment with their own.

Please dont be discouraged by that fact. It is not an overunity device, it is a teaching device, and you need to learn to walk before you fly :D