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Author Topic: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)  (Read 20264 times)

Offline SeanTheLight

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Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2008, 06:06:51 PM »
*thumbs up*

Very clever manipulation of energy in that design. Inner pegs are reducing the effect of spring/weight on the wheel by placing a fulcrum right near the axle. When the weight falls, it hangs loose between the inner pegs, but hangs firmly on the outer locking mechanism (also clever IMO). All downward force is applied to the diameter. As 6 o'clock is passed, the spring/weight hang vertically, wheel continues to spin, catching the spring with the inner peg, reducing the force required to -rotate the base of the spring-. You would need to use a fairly stiff spring to get that "whip back" effect where the weight catches vertical again at 12 o'clock, which reduces the advantage to be gained by moving the weight perpendicular to the force. (horizontal compared to the axle, leverage).

I believe I may have a slight misunderstanding of the design, particularly on the up mechanism, but I say build it. I would simulate it in working model, but that program has proven less than reliable for calculations regarding any device which outputs ANY energy....If you'd still like to see it simulated in working model, get in touch with me......

Seanthelight@gmail.com

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Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2008, 07:01:10 PM »
Sean please build this with working model 2d, i know i'd like to see. it just might work.


peace

Offline SeanTheLight

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Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2008, 07:31:22 PM »
I'm starting on my wm2d reproduction now. If I need help with the design, I will ask questions here.

-edit- actually I already see a problem potentially.

There are 8 "gaps" for springs to hang through, but only 6 weights in the drawing. Am i to assume the wheel is meant to have 8 spring/weights, or is this gap intentional? (may I add that if it is intentional, it seems the design would eventually stop with the gap facing up)

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Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2008, 07:31:22 PM »
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Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2008, 09:54:09 PM »
i suggest trying with 6 and 8. then post results here. thanks in advanced. :)


peace

Offline Alexioco

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Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2008, 10:39:21 PM »
*thumbs up*

Very clever manipulation of energy in that design. Inner pegs are reducing the effect of spring/weight on the wheel by placing a fulcrum right near the axle. When the weight falls, it hangs loose between the inner pegs, but hangs firmly on the outer locking mechanism (also clever IMO). All downward force is applied to the diameter. As 6 o'clock is passed, the spring/weight hang vertically, wheel continues to spin, catching the spring with the inner peg, reducing the force required to -rotate the base of the spring-. You would need to use a fairly stiff spring to get that "whip back" effect where the weight catches vertical again at 12 o'clock, which reduces the advantage to be gained by moving the weight perpendicular to the force. (horizontal compared to the axle, leverage).

I believe I may have a slight misunderstanding of the design, particularly on the up mechanism, but I say build it. I would simulate it in working model, but that program has proven less than reliable for calculations regarding any device which outputs ANY energy....If you'd still like to see it simulated in working model, get in touch with me......

Seanthelight@gmail.com

SeanTheLight
Yes, I would like to see a model, thats very good of you :)
I have now drawn out using a compass two large circles in wood, I will split them up into 8 sections then cut them out.

Also, there is no weight at the 6 o clock position, as the weight has swing straight past it...
Also, there are only 6 weights, as long as that weight swings, the position will not fail...
8 weights would cause the wheel to balance, my wheel drawing is correctly drawn :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2008, 10:39:21 PM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2008, 01:34:32 AM »
Greetings Alex

 I have finished my evaluation of your wheel, and since you posted it open source I am writing open source. I see a non runner due to these problems that you need to look at.

 Your stops will have a bad centrifugal problem if running, they would plant at the edge. If weighted they would work as a counter balance due to to much weight on the ascending side in their most outward position. The other problem you will keel and all your weights will stay at the bottom. Leaf springs not coiled springs to have control and not have a wild flinging spring. The key is control, without it you only have pop art. There is a bit more to look at, but you need to address these problems first.

Good luck on your quest.

Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2008, 01:55:22 AM »
Sean if it's not too much to ask could you please also try this wheel (http://www.freeenergynews.com/Directory/GravityMotors/photos/index.html) with working model 2d please. Thanks :)




peace

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Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2008, 01:55:22 AM »
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Offline PulsedPower

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Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #37 on: March 27, 2008, 05:43:30 AM »
Quote
It keeps 4 weights on the right and two on the left, so it's 4 verses 2, well, that has to move, and in order to keep it moving, the bottom weight swings, read the description just incase you don?t understand its workings..


Sorry I did not notice the missing weights at positions E and F.

Offline Alexioco

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Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2008, 12:14:21 PM »
Greetings Alex

 I have finished my evaluation of your wheel, and since you posted it open source I am writing open source. I see a non runner due to these problems that you need to look at.

 Your stops will have a bad centrifugal problem if running, they would plant at the edge. If weighted they would work as a counter balance due to to much weight on the ascending side in their most outward position. The other problem you will keel and all your weights will stay at the bottom. Leaf springs not coiled springs to have control and not have a wild flinging spring. The key is control, without it you only have pop art. There is a bit more to look at, but you need to address these problems first.

Good luck on your quest.

Hey AB :) Nice to see you

Well, I have found some better ways to release the weights, also I cant let the wheel go to fast or the swinging weights will not make it to the stoppers and like you said, the weights will collect at the bottom, that's why I need to keep the wheel at a steady speed, also about the springs, so I need to use leaf springs? What sizes to they sell them? I have started on my wheel, very slow but sure, I am going to split them up into 8 sections, then cut them out, I don't know when i will be putting them rim on, soon hopefully...

Also, my wheel is;
Wheel
Radius: 30 cm
Diameter: 60 cm

So whats the best length for a spring not forgetting the wheel needs room for the pegs...

This is how I plan to build my wheel
« Last Edit: March 27, 2008, 11:27:21 PM by Alexioco »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #38 on: March 27, 2008, 12:14:21 PM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2008, 02:37:05 AM »
OK Alex

 lets look a little tighter. The spring length will depend on the flex for to determine length. You want it to be just enough to hold, but the more flexible it is you want a stronger hold, so it will have to be longer to keep it from slipping off prematurely. Now lest look at the swing. We need it to be able to accelerates faster than the wheel turns. Now the drop will not allow it to be fast enough so maybe an added heavy weight closer to the axle to put the pressure on for the release, or some form of shifting unit. This is to remind you that the release weight is still swinging in the same direction trying to go faster than the wheel. In this case study Newton's law. 

Offline Alexioco

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Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2008, 01:36:20 PM »
OK Alex

 lets look a little tighter. The spring length will depend on the flex for to determine length. You want it to be just enough to hold, but the more flexible it is you want a stronger hold, so it will have to be longer to keep it from slipping off prematurely. Now lest look at the swing. We need it to be able to accelerates faster than the wheel turns. Now the drop will not allow it to be fast enough so maybe an added heavy weight closer to the axle to put the pressure on for the release, or some form of shifting unit. This is to remind you that the release weight is still swinging in the same direction trying to go faster than the wheel. In this case study Newton's law. 


Couldn't I just keep the wheel moving slowly then when the weight is released it will go faster because gravity will pull on it? Say the wheel was revolving quite slowly, because you have put some device to keep it at a steady speed, when the weight swings, it just like holding up a pendulum and letting it go, that wont go slowly, there is nothing to stop it, so it will make it to the stopper, am I correct?

Also, with the wheel already moving slowly, wont that add to the speed of the swing?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2008, 01:36:20 PM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2008, 04:34:53 PM »
If you do this, the best you could hope for is a clock motor or just a novelty toy if you can get it to work at all. You need it to be strong and as fast a possible (with in reason). So what I suggest is to design about 10 and then try to figure out why they will not work, and then see what it will take to make them work. This should help you in your designing.

Offline bluesgtr44

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Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2008, 06:04:08 PM »
OK Alex

 lets look a little tighter. The spring length will depend on the flex for to determine length. You want it to be just enough to hold, but the more flexible it is you want a stronger hold, so it will have to be longer to keep it from slipping off prematurely. Now lest look at the swing. We need it to be able to accelerates faster than the wheel turns. Now the drop will not allow it to be fast enough so maybe an added heavy weight closer to the axle to put the pressure on for the release, or some form of shifting unit. This is to remind you that the release weight is still swinging in the same direction trying to go faster than the wheel. In this case study Newton's law. 


Couldn't I just keep the wheel moving slowly then when the weight is released it will go faster because gravity will pull on it? Say the wheel was revolving quite slowly, because you have put some device to keep it at a steady speed, when the weight swings, it just like holding up a pendulum and letting it go, that wont go slowly, there is nothing to stop it, so it will make it to the stopper, am I correct?

Also, with the wheel already moving slowly, wont that add to the speed of the swing?

Alex, you can add a friction device to the bearings to control the speed or you could attach it to a flywheel device and use reducing gears/sprockets. If your device stands any chance, it will have to be controlled so the reaction forces don't kick your butt.

In this case, I would suggest using a flywheel set-up....as far as the speed of the swing? That is going to be tricky and the points of release and catch will be also. I might would suggest trying to find an old ten speed bicycle sprocket to use....this would give you some options on reduction ratios.....


Steve

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2008, 07:45:26 PM »
Good suggestion Steve

 But I don't think that will be the answer. I have found that Alex has a very good eye and a good imagination, and I don't want him to burn out or become over compulsive, or following to many other ideas. I am posting this statements openly to let him know that he needs to learn the effects of his test for that will allow him a clearer understanding and he will be able to think more clearly about what he is designing. If he was in visiting distance, he would be welcome to work with me, so he could learn how to build and fabricate the parts needed, and as well use the test wheels bases I have as well. He has a fire in his heart and it does not need to get out of control and burn him out.

Offline Alexioco

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Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2008, 11:16:37 PM »
Yeah :P, sometimes I look for others ways, and never finish my older projects, I would really like to work and learn from you, I am English, so we are quite a distance  :-\
Also, I like the idea about (adding a friction device to the bearings to control the speed or attach it to a flywheel device and use reducing gears/sprockets) and (find an old ten speed bicycle sprocket to use....this would give you some options on reduction ratios.....) that's great, then my wheel would go slow enough for the weights to swing and catch the stopper.

P.S, Thanks for the compliments  ;D

 

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