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### Author Topic: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)  (Read 23912 times)

#### Alexioco

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 579
##### Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« on: March 23, 2008, 03:10:11 AM »
Perpetual Motion Wheel

Weight A, B, C and D Push down on the right hand side of the wheel lifting weight E and F.

When weight D reaches the release point, the peg will fall to the side of the wheel releasing weight D and causing it to swing, passing through stopper 5 and resting on stopper 6.

As weight F, A, B and C push down, weight E takes the place of where weight F was, and weight D takes the place of where weight E was. This motion then keeps on repeating perpetually.

#### PulsedPower

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 52
##### Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2008, 07:38:54 AM »
A nobody else has commented, here goes. There will be no net output from this device, gravity acts in one direction, down so the only motion which matters is that in the up / down direction. Motion of a weight in the up direction requires work to be done on it, motion of a weight in the down direction produces work. In this wheel as with all wheels the weight goes up the same distance as it comes down otherwise it would rise or fall with each rotation of the wheel eventually leaving the wheel perimeter.

I have an idea what you were thinking when designing this, that the weight on the LHS is closer to the axle and therefore doesnt need as much torque to raise it as the corresponding weight on the RHS which is further out from the shaft will produce in falling. While any horizontal motion of the weight is irrelvent to gravity I will explain where the missing torque on the LHS comes from, the spring bends and distorts the normally sinusoidal torque from raising a weight on a rigid arm to a more square and somewhat delayed torque. Whatever shape the torque curve on the LHS is the area under it will correspond to the work done in raising the weight from the bottom of the wheel to the top.

Gravity is a powerful source of energy but it can not be turned off for the return cycle, better off making a hydro electric generator then nature takes care of the return cycle

#### FreeEnergy

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1955
##### Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2008, 08:05:34 AM »

#### Alexioco

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• Hero Member
• Posts: 579
##### Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2008, 03:41:38 PM »
No, it?s nothing like that
Have you read the description of how the wheel works?
It keeps 4 weights on the right and two on the left, so it's 4 verses 2, well, that has to move, and in order to keep it moving, the bottom weight swings, read the description just incase you don?t understand its workings...

#### helmut

• Hero Member
• Posts: 723
##### Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2008, 04:41:43 PM »
@Alexioco
Thats a new idea
Did you make a model of that wheel.?

helmut

#### Dgraphic911

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 75
##### Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2008, 06:21:30 PM »
@alex

Keep up the good work, your very inspirational. Even though you sound crazy and irrational and most people ridicule you, i sort of admire your tenacity and spirit to continue after what your dream is. Now if you and every one else shared ideas instead of misleading and holding back then this would already be done. But that just gives me more time to finish my secret project, LOL no not really.

Your wheel shows real potential to learn from. Pictures are great, but i would suggest some experimenting. Not building the whole wheel but focus on how the piece that powers works.

Sometimes the bounce or return of the object that is propelling actually creates more force going in the opposite direction than expected. Some times the point on the wheel were you expect the COG of the weight to be acting on the wheel is different than expected. I don't need you to build a wheel to prove anything to me. As like the rest who have working wheels its all up to you to learn how to get their from where you are . Without building prototypes and feeling the wheel in your hands you will find you creative mind struggling with reality and until your hand feels the action your mind cannot create the next step.

Keep it up. i'm sure your closer than youv'e been

#### Alexioco

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 579
##### Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2008, 08:28:16 PM »
@alex

Keep up the good work, your very inspirational. Even though you sound crazy and irrational and most people ridicule you, i sort of admire your tenacity and spirit to continue after what your dream is. Now if you and every one else shared ideas instead of misleading and holding back then this would already be done. But that just gives me more time to finish my secret project, LOL no not really.

Your wheel shows real potential to learn from. Pictures are great, but i would suggest some experimenting. Not building the whole wheel but focus on how the piece that powers works.

Sometimes the bounce or return of the object that is propelling actually creates more force going in the opposite direction than expected. Some times the point on the wheel were you expect the COG of the weight to be acting on the wheel is different than expected. I don't need you to build a wheel to prove anything to me. As like the rest who have working wheels its all up to you to learn how to get their from where you are . Without building prototypes and feeling the wheel in your hands you will find you creative mind struggling with reality and until your hand feels the action your mind cannot create the next step.

Keep it up. i'm sure your closer than youv'e been

I sound crazy and irrational?

I really want to build this wheel, but I'm not to good with wood, I have tried it with carboard as I'm good with it but, it's not practical...

Weight E, F, A, B and C where stuck onto the wheel, weight D hung from a piece of string with a stopper behind it.
The wheel was then slightly tilted to the right and let go, as the wheel span to the right, weight D was lifted right around to the very top and slung off the stopper causing weight D to swing to the bottom of the wheel.

Conclusion:

If the wheel has the power to lift weight D on the outside of the wheel, then it will have a stronger effect with the stopper being near the centre of the wheel.
But, having a weight just dangle at the bottom is not enough to sustain motion as more weight will gather on the ascending side as the wheel revolves. If weight D can make it to stopper 6 from the release point, then the wheel has nearly achieved perpetual motion?

But there is one more catch;
Weight D has to make it to stopper 6 just before weight C is released, which means that the wheel has to revolve at just the right speed for weight D to make it to stopper 6 just before the release of weight C if this is achieved, then it should achieve perpetual motion.

#### Dgraphic911

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 75
##### Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2008, 08:37:50 PM »
sound, not are.

and you should be able to build with cardboard. All of my wheels are working with cardboard. Use pennies, quarters as weights as the relationship will be very good to lead/ wood. Brass/wood or whatever you thought was used.

if not send me some CAD drawings and i'll throw them on the water jet with some plexi and we can throw it together really quick. I have lots of circles we can probably already use. I don't want your wheel. You need it to learn from it. But, if you think the only thing stopping you is the ability to work with wood then you might be mistaken. Your need/drive to want to create it is whats lacking. Otherwise you or anyone else would not use lack off......materials/money/time ETC as your excuses.

If you believe then find a way.  If you cannot find a way then you might not believe enough. Sorry but thats where i weigh in on the subject.

#### Alexioco

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 579
##### Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2008, 08:44:46 PM »
sound, not are.

and you should be able to build with cardboard. All of my wheels are working with cardboard. Use pennies, quarters as weights as the relationship will be very good to lead/ wood. Brass/wood or whatever you thought was used.

if not send me some CAD drawings and i'll throw them on the water jet with some plexi and we can throw it together really quick. I have lots of circles we can probably already use. I don't want your wheel. You need it to learn from it. But, if you think the only thing stopping you is the ability to work with wood then you might be mistaken. Your need/drive to want to create it is whats lacking. Otherwise you or anyone else would not use lack off......materials/money/time ETC as your excuses.

If you believe then find a way.  If you cannot find a way then you might not believe enough. Sorry but thats where i weigh in on the subject.

P.S You may have missed my edit on the "Test on my Wheel" just above your post

I have tried with cardboard, my excitement over this wheel has gone alittle, it would start up again if I knew I could make it correctly lol

The pegs were hard to do, I made and attached them on, they were good but also flimsy which meant attaching them on with more string, I got tired and left it, then thought, Ill wait until I can get the material...

#### Dgraphic911

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 75
##### Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2008, 09:03:38 PM »
Sorry,

I may have misunderstood, if i can make one more small suggestion.

IMO its not just about getting more weights on one side. Their is only one way to do this. You must find a way for the weight to have more motive force on the wheel. Not just form 12 down to six. If you have the weight have force for more than 50% of the wheel then you will be much closer to the wheel always turning. Overweight is not necessarily the answer.

Stop trying to get the weight to go back up. Fucus on it exerting more energy. I don't mean just swinging past 6 oclock. I mean actually pushing past 6 oclock, relative to starting at 12. But it can start anywhere.

I am sorry if you misunderstood my admiration for your trying. keep up the good work. Your sharing helps others and is always appreciated by some.

#### FreeEnergy

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1955
##### Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2008, 09:47:25 PM »
my bad, it was really late last night and I missed the boat.

good luck with your invention.

peace

#### Alexioco

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 579
##### Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2008, 10:22:57 PM »
Sorry,

I may have misunderstood, if i can make one more small suggestion.

IMO its not just about getting more weights on one side. Their is only one way to do this. You must find a way for the weight to have more motive force on the wheel. Not just form 12 down to six. If you have the weight have force for more than 50% of the wheel then you will be much closer to the wheel always turning. Overweight is not necessarily the answer.

Stop trying to get the weight to go back up. Fucus on it exerting more energy. I don't mean just swinging past 6 oclock. I mean actually pushing past 6 oclock, relative to starting at 12. But it can start anywhere.

I am sorry if you misunderstood my admiration for your trying. keep up the good work. Your sharing helps others and is always appreciated by some.

Well, I had an idea then, what if I removed weight F, so when the wheel turns, weight E can fall and hit the peg that weight F would of rested on, meaning, i would have to find a way of keeping one of the pegs in place alowing weight E to pass it, not a problem though...

Somthing tells me, without weight F it wont work...
« Last Edit: March 24, 2008, 10:44:16 PM by Alexioco »

#### Alexioco

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 579
##### Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2008, 02:08:01 AM »
Take a look at this;

To achieve "Perpetual Motion" we need a wheel that has a section where there is no weight at all times...

The white area of the wheel is where there is no weight
The grey area of the wheel is where there is weight
The black balls are weights
The White balls are where the weights would normally be

The below wheel turns (Clockwise)

If this can be achieved, then indeed we do have "Perpetual Motion"

Now, my wheel does in effect do part of this, weight E (according to the wheel below) does not exist on my wheel as it swings right past it, but unfortunately, it rests on weight F (according to the wheel below)

Now, this does not say that my wheel won?t work, but, it is against my wheel...

So in effect, weight D on my wheel is constantly swapping from weight D to F (according to the below wheel)

Ok, so I have eliminated weight E (according to the below wheel), the remaining question is this; how do I eliminate weight F (according to the wheel below)?

Even though weight E (according to the below wheel) has been removed, its at the cost of weight F (according to the below wheel) which is also the weight that has to be removed...

So I reckon that soon as the weight swings to its next position, something must happen to it, but what? I?m sure there is an answer somewhere, this wheel is like inches from perpetual motion (If it does not work already) I mean, to eliminate the bottom weight will cause the wheel to turn, but how effective will it be? I'm going to try and crack this final move, if anyone can think of something that happens to the weight once it has swung to its position, I would really appreciate your help
Thank you
« Last Edit: March 25, 2008, 04:32:46 PM by Alexioco »

#### Dgraphic911

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 75
##### Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2008, 01:55:26 PM »
very nice, but not sure which way it turns. I'll assume clockwise.

Yes you are correct if you can get your weights of your wheel it will be great. But i am confused on why you chose the white area where you did. In a perfectly weighted wheel like yours you would have to assume that the weights motion creates force starting at 12 oclock and ends imparting force at 6 oclock. Why you would want to take a weight of while it is still imparting force i am confused about.

if you want to take the weight of the wheel. IMO it would be best to do it just before it has to begin its new power stroke.

I hope i don't sound like the rest of the advice givers and trying to dictate what you do. I believe you should stay on the path that you are on. It will definately lead to some discovery on your part and that is always good.

i tend to reverse engineer instead of invent or ty to discover.  By statrting with the working wheel (imagining one, not real) i think what it must have to do.

Keep up the good work.

#### Alexioco

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 579
##### Re: Perpetual Motion Wheel Design (Quite Simple)
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2008, 04:41:32 PM »
Yes, that is very true, you could take the weight from just before the power stroke but, by having no weight in the white area on the circle, the wheel has to move clockwise (I have tested this) My wheel like i said has only eliminated weight E, weight F must also go, then we can think about the weights just before the stroke...

If you get a wheel, and set weights on it like this below wheel, then it will turn which ever way you push it, but by adding the extra weight D on the above wheel, then it will turn clockwise, that is why I have set the weights like this, then by removing weight E and F we have Perpetual Motion.