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Author Topic: Simple and slow - Seans gravity wheel  (Read 12416 times)

Offline wattsup

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Re: Simple and slow - Seans gravity wheel
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2008, 06:36:46 PM »
@STL

I have looked at your design for a few days now and there seems to be something you are taking for granted here that will inevitably make this design fail.

For the swing to happen from the 3 to 12 position, the swing has to move faster then the rotation of the wheel, so it does not only have to overcome the weight of the swing but also the counter force of the wheel turning counter clockwise.

If the elastic has to be week enough to bend at the 5 position and strong enough to retract at the 3 to 12 position, this in itself will not help overcome the rotation required to lift it at the 3 to 12 position.

I think one way to help overcome this is to connect each swing to their immediate opposites. So that the swing bending at the 5 position also helps lift the swing rising at the 3 to 12 position, or at least to help enough to take off some of the weight and use that bending energy to some helpfull use.

In any case, you have to be carefull because there is a very large world between the animation and the reality and being able to see the difference from the inventors perspective is usualy very difficult. From a scale of 1 to 10 on plausible success, I would give this a 7 so not bad.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Simple and slow - Seans gravity wheel
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2008, 06:36:46 PM »

Offline Scorpile

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Re: Simple and slow - Seans gravity wheel
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2008, 07:34:12 PM »
Nice recreation. I have 3 concerns with your model though. First, why is there an extra rope going from tip of weight, to fulcrum of next weight, on the elastic side? Second, did you change the ropes on one side to elastic or did you leave all ropes as rope? Third why is the hinge for the weights offset to one side?
That's not an extra rope, that's a spring.  The other 2 are ropes without elasticity.  The hinge was only because i tough placing it there will stop the weight to move beyond and over the arms.

Offline xnonix

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Re: Simple and slow - Seans gravity wheel
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2008, 08:36:17 PM »
Sorry to say, it stops (no air drag).

Here is the wm2d model with 7 arms. The springs are circular springs joints. You have a generic control for the springs K factor to change to tune up the system.
I have put a latch system that activates when the system try to go clockwise.

Mandatory screenshot and model.

xnonix


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Re: Simple and slow - Seans gravity wheel
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2008, 08:36:17 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Simple and slow - Seans gravity wheel
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2008, 10:55:13 PM »
@xnonix,
many thanks for these simulations.
Always enable air resistance, otherwise you will not see a realworld simulation.

Please can anybody tell me,
how I can lay a rope around a disc , so the rope
stays at the surface of the disc ?
Is this at all possible with WM2D ?
My ropes or pulleys always fall down in front ofthe disc.
I want to fix via a rope a weight to the outer rim of a disc and
it should wind up the rope, when the disc spins.
Is this somehow possible ?
I can not set a collide of a rope with the disc...
so this does not seem to work.
The only solution I can think of is design a small
chain from rectangular rods and use this as a rope.

Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.

Offline Scorpile

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Re: Simple and slow - Seans gravity wheel
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2008, 11:20:39 PM »
I've tryed a serie of smaller balls joined by ropes... like a chain of small balls... it works but the program seems to be extremally slow.

Now, about the air resistance... well... if we find a working model, we can construct a vaccum plexiglass chamber isn't it?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Simple and slow - Seans gravity wheel
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2008, 11:20:39 PM »
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Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: Simple and slow - Seans gravity wheel
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2008, 11:29:26 PM »
I've tryed a serie of smaller balls joined by ropes... like a chain of small balls... it works but the program seems to be extremally slow.

Now, about the air resistance... well... if we find a working model, we can construct a vaccum plexiglass chamber isn't it?
could you post the wm2d file please? thanks :)

Offline Scorpile

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Re: Simple and slow - Seans gravity wheel
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2008, 11:37:15 PM »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Simple and slow - Seans gravity wheel
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2008, 11:37:15 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Simple and slow - Seans gravity wheel
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2008, 12:42:51 AM »
Sure!  here:  http://pabo.com.pa/joe/chain.wm2d

Many thanks Scorpile,
that was, what I was looking for.
Does that also somehow work without all the small balls ?
Just the rope connected at one end at the big disc and
at the other end of the rope another weight ?

Probably not, right ?

Many thanks again.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline SeanTheLight

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Re: Simple and slow - Seans gravity wheel
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2008, 09:38:04 AM »
The force used to stretch the cloth would normally cancel out, but stretching the cloth over the fulcrum during "peak strength" and then waiting a number of degrees of rotation before releasing that pent up energy, splits the cloth into 2 springs effectively, seperated at the fulcrum. Top weight continues to act as we imagine a simple weight to do, but bottom cloth is a storage spring, its pull force is being held tightly between its mounting position, and the fulcrum. This energy will not be released until top cloth reaches or passes equilibrium relative to the weight. Once the cloth overcomes friction at the fulcrum, it returns to the behavior of a simple spring, and pulls with full force (top + bottom cloth) on the weight, and at the angle it is connected, that pulling force snaps the weight back into position, on its way back to its starting length.

You will notice the wheel is rotating extremely slowly.....centrifugal force is minimal. This is not a generator design, just a proof of concept.

One side of the weight must be held tight at "full extension" by a rope, the other side of the weight must be held by an elastic string. When constructed properly, it should look like a ninja throwing star, or a snowflake.

Scorpile, try this please. Hinge the weights at center instead of off to one side. Remove the rope on the elastic side. Change the static length of the elastic string until tension is present in the system at "starting" position. Adjust mass of weights, and elasticity of string, until perpetual motion is achieved.   ;)


my design, and a recreation of dr tseungs suggested experiment, both in working model, both caused simulation errors when "I Believe" the effect that is causing "overunity" is seen as an error by WM.


http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s152/murdock2id/workingmodelunhappy.jpg
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s152/murdock2id/workingmodelunhappy2.jpg
« Last Edit: March 14, 2008, 10:06:38 AM by SeanTheLight »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Simple and slow - Seans gravity wheel
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2008, 09:38:04 AM »
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Offline Scorpile

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Re: Simple and slow - Seans gravity wheel
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2008, 04:55:09 PM »

Does that also somehow work without all the small balls ?
Just the rope connected at one end at the big disc and
at the other end of the rope another weight ?

Probably not, right ?

Right.  I've found in the manual and all the springs, ropes, rods, etc, do not collide, nor have mass or volume.

Offline SeanTheLight

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Re: Simple and slow - Seans gravity wheel
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2008, 07:23:31 PM »
Here is my design in working model. I cannot make working model simulate the elasticity of string unless you introduce slack to the system, which is not a functional compromise for me.


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Re: Simple and slow - Seans gravity wheel
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2008, 07:23:31 PM »
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Offline erickdt

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Re: Simple and slow - Seans gravity wheel
« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2008, 07:30:30 PM »
Here is my design in working model. I cannot make working model simulate the elasticity of string unless you introduce slack to the system, which is not a functional compromise for me.



You should be able to adjust the elasticity of a rope object in the object properties.

Offline SeanTheLight

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Re: Simple and slow - Seans gravity wheel
« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2008, 07:34:49 PM »
Yes the elasticity is already set for the string pieces, but working model will not let you run the simulation that way. (download the model and try it yourself).

 

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