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Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: LoganBaker on March 17, 2008, 11:32:56 PM

Title: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: LoganBaker on March 17, 2008, 11:32:56 PM
Hello all. I was wondering, not too long ago I found this page http://www.inkomp-delta.com/ (http://www.inkomp-delta.com/) and on it is a Meg alike system shown.
There is also a YouTube video, it is a bit different then the one on their own page. The device seems to be enclosed in this bigger control box.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npFVaeSbk1Q&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npFVaeSbk1Q&feature=related)

Now it all look very promising, in the video it seems the thing is past a Cop of 2...,and it indeed is a surprisingly fresh and 'new' way of doing this 'permanent magnet switching'. See the attached photo's (Or the one on their page) they have these 'toroid' (close looped) input core sections which will function as a 'magnetic resistor' once magnetized/saturated. And so the flux form the magnet will have to find another way around. Now we all know that saturating a core section does not take much power. Another 'novel' thing here is, is that the flux from the input coil never interacts with the output coil so there is a separation. That way only the flux from the magnet will do the power 'generation'.

I also found some other info about it on some MegBuilders group, here it is:
Hi all!

I recently discovered one Bulgarian experimenter that built MEG like
device with COP > 1. His Website is here: www.inkomp-delta.com. The
site is in Bulgarian, so I asked him and he uploaded one page in
English (http://www.inkomp-delta.com/page9.html).

Valeri generously agreed to answer my questions and we talked for a
few hours. There are 2 conclusions that I got from this conversation,
and I want to share them with you guys:

1. Valeri claims that magnetic flux from control coil and output coil
should be separated. He claims that the structure presented in TB
patent (with mutual flux for both coils) cannot work. He worked
around this problem by inserting additional toroidal core inside the
main core. The control coil is winded on the additional core but its
flux does not go to the output coil.

2. He also claims that capacitor is absolutely necessary to be
connected to the output coil to obtain resonance. It also makes TB's
patent claims about zero phase difference between output coil voltage
and current somewhat suspicious.

There were also other interesting points like:

3. He said that nanocrystalline material is not absolutely necessary
for the effect to be observed. Such materials can improve efficiency,
but nothing unique happens inside the core. For example, one of his
prototypes with measurements published on the Website
(http://www.inkomp-delta.com/page6.html) works at 50Hz (!!!) with
regular transformer steel core and exhibits COP up to 5.4.

4. He also proposed a few constructions for his ideas in his patent
application (http://inkomp-delta.com/page4.html). It's also in
Bulgarian, but all schematic figures are in couples. The first
presents a state without current in control coil, the second presents
a state with current in control coil. Permanent magnet flux is in
blue. Control coil flux is in red.

I hope the above points will help somebody. At least for me it
changed a lot.

So there you have it. What do you think?
I have not seen this being discussed before on overunity.com
So maybe any of you have some insights in this tech or maybe speak Bulgarian and be able to translate the whole lot?

Thanks!
Regards,
Logan
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: helmut on March 18, 2008, 12:16:20 AM
Hi Logan
Thanks for sharing
Very interesting!

helmut
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Koen1 on March 18, 2008, 01:30:22 AM
Yes, very interesting stuff... :)

... a variation on the MEG, and one that does work?
cool

Thanks! ;D
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Groundloop on March 18, 2008, 01:35:35 AM
@All,

I have tried to replicate the MEG.

I failed!

Information here: http://home.no/ufoufoufoufo/MEG/meg.htm

(It was a huge waste of money and time.)

Regards,
Groundloop.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on March 18, 2008, 01:39:10 AM
Hmm yes although is might fall in the MEG category this device is much different. Input and output are cleverly separated. It is the magnet that does the 'work' and the input coil that does the gating. But the input coil flux does not seem to interact with the output coil. He also states that this is a main reason why the meg and alike systems will not work, I'm not super sure why that would be 'that' important?
Plus special stuff like metglass is not needed he says.

Steven
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: tao on March 18, 2008, 03:31:07 AM
I did some FEMM sims for this device to show that the scheme devised in the picture below DOES work out...EXCEPT for one thing, the control coils shouldn't impose a circular(mutual) magnetization in the circular 'element', the sims where MUCH more favorable when the magnetization of each control coil opposed each other and opposed the flux coming from the permanent magnet...

I have appended two sims:
--one where the control coils ARE NOT ENERGIZED
--one where the control coils ARE ENERGIZED via 200turns of 22awg copper wire @ 2 amps for each coil (this can be in a pulse form, doesn't need be continuously applied (for those that don't know) )

I tried sims with the control coil 'element' in a circular format, but that didn't work very well, the flux didn't flow through it well enough so I went with the rectangular 'element'...




(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4300.0;attach=20273;image)


(http://i27.tinypic.com/2pp0gwn.gif)


(http://i26.tinypic.com/29vdsvk.gif)
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: gyulasun on March 18, 2008, 11:49:19 AM
Hmm yes although is might fall in the MEG category this device is much different. Input and output are cleverly separated. It is the magnet that does the 'work' and the input coil that does the gating. But the input coil flux does not seem to interact with the output coil. He also states that this is a main reason why the meg and alike systems will not work, I'm not super sure why that would be 'that' important?
Plus special stuff like metglass is not needed he says.

Steven

Hello Steven,

The MEG and similar setups like Bearden et al in their patent or Naudin showed are normal transformers with primary (input) and secondary (output) windings  on a common ferromagnetic core, except for a permanent magnet in the middle column.  So if you remove the magnet, and start exciting the input coils, their setup readily continue working as a normal transformer because all the coils share a common flux path just like in a normal transformer,  the magnet does nothing else but shift the working area in the B-H curve of the core. And if you study the Megbuilders yahoo group, several members replicated this kind of MEG during the years and NONE of them showed extra output!  Only the Bearden team and Naudin alone claimed overunity.

In this Bulgarian type MEG, if you remove the magnet, the setup cannot readily work as a normal tranformer because the reasons you also wrote above.  So the input coils magnetic flux does not interact with the output coils flux, hence the output load cannot readily reflect in the input coils. 

I understand that a common flux path that is shared by both the input and output coils is NOT neccessarily a drawback in achieving overunity in a so called overunity setup  BUT in the normal MEG setup this seems to be a problem in practice: no overunity comes out in the replicators' MEG devices.  Years ago I also replicated the MEG and got a decent 87% efficiency (COP of 0.87). 
It is possible that Bearden at al have been hiding some important details but if there is any secret, then they have been sitting on it for at least a decade now and one wonders what are they waiting for to mass produce (or at least demonstrate) their claimed kW versions???  My only logical deduction is: their shown setup does not produce extra output and they have no secret....

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on March 18, 2008, 01:10:21 PM
Hi there Tao:
Thanks for the input.
One ting that must be kept in mind in these type of arrangements is the dimensions of the core sections of the circular core type of gate that they use very much depends on the fact that the total flux from the magnet can at rest only pass trough when it balances equally trough the two arms of the circular section. Plus one must note that this  'gate' will act very much as a resistor when powered. The circular section will have to be driven to saturation. The mean reason why it did not really work for you is because of your air gap size. In my opinion a 0.1 > 0.2mm air gap is all that is needed to create at rest the reluctance imbalance needed. See the attached simulations. And I agree with you, when the coils on the circular section are repelling you indeed end op with a more 'forcing' effect. But I have indeed found (just like the Bulgarian inventor) that this type of approach will not work as you would hope for some reason. Likely because in that situation the input flux will 'interact' with the output coil directly.

Hello Gyula:
Yes there indeed seem to be no real indisputable Bearden Meg replication out there. This is in my opinion mainly because a lot of people do not realize that the Bearden Meg does not quite work as one would think. What most of the time is explained as the workings behind the Meg, is flux density shifting from side to side. But although that 'might' happen Bearden himself does not describe that as the overunity enabling factor. In the video Energy from the vacuum he describes this more fully than I can, but the workings  depend on the Aharonov bohm effect. Now here is what I can remember about it. There is supposed to be this field about magnets that can normally not be reached due to the overpowering magnetic field of the magnet. What the core material of the meg is supposed to do is contain all the magnetism of the magnet itself in the core to a very high degree. Now that the magnetic field is fully contained it is said to possible to tap this 'special' (don't know the name) field. But like he says in the video, doing that is very hard and you need special knowledge and circuitry to sort it all out. He also says that he and his team are still looking for Aharonov bohm effect specialists to help them sort the problem areas out. So form what I get is that the Meg is not at all so simple as directing flux for left to right. That is why this Bulgarian 'Meg' seems so much more doable.
No Metglass not multi kilo hz.

Kind regards,
Steven

Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: exnihiloest on March 18, 2008, 01:10:56 PM
...See the attached photo's (Or the one on their page) they have these 'toroid' (close looped) input core sections which will function as a 'magnetic resistor' once magnetized/saturated. And so the flux form the magnet will have to find another way around. ...

Why do you think so? If the current flows the same direction in the two control coils, it provides a circulary flux in the toroidal core as showed on the picture. But the flux from the magnet just adds in one branch of the toroid core and substracts in the other one. If we suppose the core is not saturated, we are in a linear domain so we just get a superposition of the magnetics fields and flux from coils and magnets. This can't change the flux in the output coil.

For changing the flux in the output coil, either the flux from the two control coils have to oppose each other or the toroidal core must be saturated.
In the first case the flux from each control coil will add together through the main circuit and superpose to that of the magnet thus the varying flux in the output coil will be only that of the control coils.
In the second case it is not possible to saturate equally the two branches of the toroid core because the flux is not the same (coil flux + magnet flux in a branch, coil flux - magnet flux in the other). But imagine we could. In order to saturate the core we will have to generate a flux at least superior to that of the magnet thus needing more energy than that being providing by the redirected flux of the magnet through the output coil.

It is a common error to not think about flux and fields as "superposition" although we deal with linear domains.  And to saturate core is wasting energy. No FE this way :-(

Fran?ois


Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: bluedemon on March 18, 2008, 05:58:24 PM
Here is an idea using the same concept.  I was thinking at the time that it could be used in a motor or used something like a battery for magnetic circuits.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,1504.msg12125.html#msg12125

Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: hartiberlin on March 19, 2008, 04:07:30 AM
Here can a video be seen.

http://inkomp-delta.com/page7.html

So you can see, that they have have about 2:1 overunity output.

Very interesting ou transformer.

On youtube they also have these video.

Please can somebody translate their website into english
and let us know, what the inventor says in the video ?
Many thanks.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: hartiberlin on March 19, 2008, 04:17:02 AM
Here is the youtube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npFVaeSbk1Q

There you can see the COP= 2.1 OU output.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Feynman on March 20, 2008, 04:31:36 AM
This looks fascinating, it's on my todo list for tomorrow as well.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: rensseak on March 21, 2008, 10:12:44 AM
Hello all,

Would it not also be possible/easyer to use a speaker magnet? In the center the control coil and around the circumference the collector coils and then covering with a steel discs.
Just a thought.

regards
Norbert
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: satchid on June 28, 2008, 02:20:54 PM
Hi all,
I loocked to that hungarian site. Is there someboddy that downloade that site in the begin of this tread? It changed alot in between, some pages are not the same animore. I am particulary looking for any schematic on the electrical side of this OU transformer.
Thank you,
Willy 
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: LoganBaker on June 30, 2008, 11:33:54 PM
Hello Willy,
Yes it seems they took most of the site down.
There is some info in this document:
http://www.gigasize.com/get.php?d=mjjcqbkrotf (http://www.gigasize.com/get.php?d=mjjcqbkrotf)

However, how the thing is connected and controlled is never told/shown

Regards,
Logan
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Getca on October 24, 2008, 05:06:31 PM
Hello all...I am Bulgarian and it's my pleasure joining to this forum. Soory for my bad English.  :) You discuss about the Bulgarian MEG, I see...Yes, it is really working, but unfortunately the project is commercial and there is strongly restricted information abot it. We also have site about Free Energy in Bulgaria...http://forum.beinsa.info/index.php?topic=275.0 (http://forum.beinsa.info/index.php?topic=275.0)...and there is a greate information about MEG design. Unfortunately the language is Bulgarian, but some diagrams and pictures are maybe in use. Now we develop MEG construction on ferrite cores and high frecuence of 20-30kHz and   COP=1.1. I believe that COP=2 soon. ;) There are pictures and diagrams in the topic of MEG and you can see them.
Best greetings and success to all... ;D
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: broli on October 24, 2008, 05:28:25 PM
Google translate can do wonders;

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fforum.beinsa.info%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D275.0&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=bg&tl=en

Nice topic. Will keep an eye on it.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Getca on October 24, 2008, 07:16:05 PM
An English version of simulation...and a photo of my version of MEG.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: broli on October 24, 2008, 08:01:31 PM
Has anyone considered using the special bifilar coil on the meg posted here.

This one;

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4047.msg132767#msg132767

Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on October 24, 2008, 10:57:55 PM
Hi there Getca and welcome!
Great to see some people working on this system.
You ever tried to contact Mr. Ivanov from Inkomp-Delta himself?
And if so did he ever give out some useful info, they say he is a nice helpful guy?

Could you PLEASE give me/us an 'global idea' what he is saying in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npFVaeSbk1Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npFVaeSbk1Q)

And VERY PLEASE also for this video especially:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IP-buFHKKU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IP-buFHKKU)
Is he describing anything 'specific' regarding the oscilloscope shot and maybe the driving technique?

Well maybe you can understand what is said in this video?
http://www.hvlabs.hu/zpe/Boday/tiltott_talalmanyok_cutted.avi (http://www.hvlabs.hu/zpe/Boday/tiltott_talalmanyok_cutted.avi)

Thanks,
Steven
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: gyulasun on October 25, 2008, 12:04:05 AM

Well maybe you can understand what is said in this video?
http://www.hvlabs.hu/zpe/Boday/tiltott_talalmanyok_cutted.avi (http://www.hvlabs.hu/zpe/Boday/tiltott_talalmanyok_cutted.avi)

Thanks,
Steven

Hi Steven,

The person in that video was Árpád Boday, a Hungarian inventor / replicator of a MEG.  Unfortunately, he died of cancer and the setup he showed in the video was not found by his friends (i.e. György Egely for instance).
Boday, however, tried to build a bigger setup, based on his experiments but he could not finish it due to his illness. His friends tried to continue building his bigger setup after his death but unfortunately, I have no any further news on that, probably it was unsuccessful.
The report's text is here:
Boday: The phenomena is exceptionally interesting. Input voltage is zero now and here these electric bulbs are lit.
Reporter: At first you switched something and  a number 107 could be seen?
B: yes, there is a given voltage to start with, then the setup gets excited and the input voltage can be switched off, for instance you see I unplug the connection and the bulbs continue lighting. So this is a completely new phenomena  which now I would not like to talk about.
R:  But I would have one more question: In your setup there are still two 4.5V dry batteries?
B: The two 4.5V dry batteries feed the control electronics only.  If you consider there are 8 light bulbs of 10W power each, altogether they are 80W, and you cannot take out 80W power from two 4.5V dry batteries. I could show you the current coming out from these batteries, it is about 30mA the control circuit consumes.
R: Basically, you change the Law of Energy Conversation with this setup by showing you gain energy from nothing?
B: Well, not from nothing but from permanent magnets: their magnetostatic energy is converted into magnetodynamic energy.  This is all I wished to tell you because this setup needs further experiments and developments to get an extremely well useable and useful device for everybody.
Then the reporter ask a question from another person, not from the above MEG setup: Everybody is called in to show his device to see whether it works?

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: lancaIV on October 25, 2008, 12:25:18 AM
http://ep.espacenet.com/advancedSearch       CA2172240                Arpad Boday-Publication

S
  CdL

p.s.: never changing the law of conservation: using (getting/giving) temporary Gibbs-Theorem             
                                                                                                              credit/debit units

       also important : Meissner-Ochsenfeld-Effekt
                              Coloumb-Law
                              Ampére-Law
                              Curie-Temperature
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Getca on October 25, 2008, 11:29:28 AM
Hi Nali2001...
You ever tried to contact Mr. Ivanov from Inkomp-Delta himself?
And if so did he ever give out some useful info, they say he is a nice helpful guy?
I personally don't know Mr. Ivanov, but my friend met him and saw his device working with COP>2. The MEG was not selfpowered. The inventor gave some information about principle of work and the main is using magnetic bypass or switch for flux commutation of permanent magnets.. Magnetic bypass or switch work as a magnetic resistance with a core saturation. The control magnetic flux is closed in the core of the bypass/switch and only PM's flux is commutated to the output. Mr. Ivanov uses resonant circuits for optimal performans.
Abot first two videos the inventor doesn't say any interesting. He just demostrates working device and COP>2. On the first video output power is about 400w and on the second about 1200w. On the third video the inventor speaks Hungarin language and I can't understand anything.
So, the Bulgarian MEG is really working and that is truth... :) The inventor says that he can build 2-10kW device in the future.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on October 26, 2008, 05:26:28 PM
Hello Getca and thanks for the info.
Saw your friend the actual device or only that box with the unit inside?
The only video's has has shown with the device operating is when the actual device is in the box. I wonder what core configuration he is now using.
It sounds like he is just using 50hz so I guess it is all normal transformer steel. Do you have any oscilloscope shots for his device? I know they were on his website once but now they are gone and I did not save them back then, do you have some? Any idea about how he is driving the thing? I believe on the earlier models he used half wave ac from just one diode. But judging from the 1200watt video he is now using short duty dc pulses in a capacitor resonant system. Must be one serious circuit since it is probably pretty high dc voltage he is putting in. Could be as high as 250vdc. And that at some impressive wattage also, that requires some serious switching circuit.
Anyway about your circuit you showed, is there any specific reason for the series resonant circuit and not parallel resonant? See picture below.

Regards,
Steven
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: TechStuf on October 26, 2008, 08:29:40 PM
Has anyone here studied the Aharanov-Bohm effect at depth?  

Consider, for example:

http://www.physics.harvard.edu/~dtlarson/tutorial05/lecture6.pdf

Especially pages 42-43.

Phase shifted electron streams interfere with one another.....It seems that, coupled with Bearden's observations, the real juice is to be found in producing sharp edge curl eddies interacting on multiple boundary layers to create a momentary cascade.  At this level, the problems become clear.  Like rectifying a lightning bolt in miniature.  

If Howard Johnson's results, did in fact rely upon producing sustained magnetic pulses of high order, then perhaps what some of us are experiencing is simply the poor man's way of simulating the effects already waiting to be produced in nanomaterials of the correct construction.  It's my guess that this has already been done.  Manufactured materials that produce energy via their interaction with the Aether.  Nanomaterials of the correct construction eliminate many concerns by their highly accurate and lasting nature.

In the mean time, there are numerous ways in which to benefit one's research by experimentation with the nature of the magnetic dipole itself.  

For instance, the much hyped collegiate notion of virtual photon flux quanta streaming solely from N pole to S pole is thoroughly discredited via a number of simple experiments.  Virtual photon streams eminate from both pole and 'knit' or spiral together from both directions creating a closed,symmetrical flux field.

Until such materials, as proposed above, are made available, certainly.....certainly there are ways of inducing sharp edge curl pulses resulting from very low friction rotary magnetic interactions into properly shaped and positioned field coils?

I mean, what we are essentially talking about here, are field compression and expansion dynamics at work.  Consider the amazing parallels between fluid dynamics research and magnetics research....Consider what is occuring in the hydrosonic pump....

I believe it to be not only likely, but perhaps a foregone conclusion that materials science, borne from dynamic systems research, has already greatly surpassed our comparatively meager efforts.  I've also little doubt that such power may be exercised on a grand scale within the next few short years.


How we react to such, will determine much.


The way I've always looked at it is, "Don't be seduced by the results of your own efforts, much less those of someone else."


Stay Real in an increasingly deceptive world,



TS

Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Getca on October 26, 2008, 10:54:41 PM
Hi Steven...The magnetic loops of the actual device are like this in the attached diagram. Yes, he uses a normal transformer steel and a half wave AC from a power diode to drive the control coil. The output resonant circuit is parallel, as I know and C>1000uF/380v AC. There is an usefull PM energy and it helps to reduce DTC. The control and output circuits must work in phase,  otherwise COP deeply decreases. So it isn't easy to build and get a device with optimal COP. But it is possible when the man is patient... ;) and knows what he does. The main principle is to change the magnetic resistance of the switch core and get a PM flux modulation. It is quite different compared to T.Bearden's MEG. This isn't a transformer, because when we remove magnets the output voltage is zero. It's interesting that I get a device working on the same principle at 25kHz using ferrite cores. So the principle works fine and anyone can replicate the MEG.

Wish You soccess...
Rossen
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on October 27, 2008, 06:35:21 AM
Hello Getca and thanks for the info.
Now don't get this the wrong way but, the last picture in you previous post, is that what he told you he is using, or are you assuming this is what he is using. Especially the switching core parts. It seems like these they are made from E shaped cores. But on his site he is using O shaped or alike, so is there any specific reason for the 3 'pathways' on the switching sections?
And what is DTC?
Your sure he is using half wave ac these days? I mean his scope in the video seems to indicate pulsed dc with a cap on it for resonance.
It indeed seems a very do able project. Instead of ferrite one could easily make something out of a few microwave oven transformers.

Thanks for the info!
Steven

Oh and Gyula. Thanks for that info as well!
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Getca on October 27, 2008, 12:10:52 PM
Hi Steven...It doesn't matter what core shape is used for the magnetic switch, It's only important to get core saturation and extremally decreasing magnetic resistance. Mr Ivanov uses O-shaped cores, a half wave AC U~35v eff. and a resonant circuit to get a magnetic flux change via swith core. The inventor says DTC~0.3 or time of control impulse is about 4mS as a part of the sinus wave. But when a ferrite is used at high frequency these sinus control impulse isn't possible. I use rectangular shaped impulse to drive the control coil and there is a possibility to change DTC and frequency to get a resonance and increase COP.

Best wishes...
Rossen
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: gyulasun on October 27, 2008, 05:29:02 PM
And what is DTC?

@Steven

DTC is  Duty Cycle.

@Rossen

Have you seen CHOBANOV VALERI's patent, BG109554, on his INTEGRATING COMMUTATOR OF MAGNETIC FLUXES ?

The online search at the European Patent Office includes only the abstract, here is a link:
http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?KC=A&date=20070630&NR=109554A&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP&CC=BG&FT=D

It may be well worth seeing the Figures at least but if you think it does not give further useful info, well then no need for it?

Don't you know if  Valeri and Ivanov have been working together on the so called 'Bulgarian MEG' ?

Thanks,  Gyula
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Getca on October 27, 2008, 10:37:50 PM
Hello Gyula...
I haven't seen these patent and I don't know who is CHOBANOV VALERI, but I think Valeri Ivanov and Valeri Chobanov are the same person. The Integrated Swith of Magnetic Stream is patented by Valeri Ivanov as I know. There is some usefull info in the first attached file about principles of magnetic energy converting. Unfortunatelly the language is Russian. The author is Valeri Ivanov.
In the second file the inventor shows a measurement circuits and results. Also a half sinus wave for driving of the control coils is showed.

Regards,,,
Rossen 
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: altium on October 27, 2008, 11:14:14 PM
Hello all,
In 03.2007 I was been in Elin Pelin city, Bulgaria, and meet with mr. Walery Ivanow, inventor of "INKOMP". Translated to english, this name mean "integral commutator of magnetic fields".

COP (КПД) of this system is typically =2,4.
Measuring of input-output powers (see MEG_Ivanov_Results.png), when I see and we can see in videos in youtube is really.
Input power is sinusoidal 50Hz,  output power is sinusoidal too, but after rectified to DC with big capacitors, and loaded to bulbs. All measuring was been easy, really and correct. No fraud there.
Self feeding was NOT demonstrated.
Sometimes I`m Skype call with mr. Ivanow.

Information of basic working principle is available from inventor`s website (www.inkomp-delta.com), but small technical details is NOT available, because mr. Ivanow is patent pending.
In our forum (www.forum.beinsa.info), user Getca is trying to replicate his own construction, and experiment now is succesfull.
COP=1,3 and soon will be 1,5 without self feeding option. After, self feeding will be trying to achieve.
More experiments needed...

I will try to replicate Getca`s construction soon. And I will posted results and pictures.
Getca uses 2 types of "E" ferrite cores:
for by-pass core - Ш6х11mm, material K4000 Al=2800
for basic core - Ш12Ñ…15mm, material  K2004 Al=200

Regards,
altium
www.forum.beinsa.info
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Getca on October 28, 2008, 11:41:56 AM
Hello...There is showed a magnetization curve and magnetic permeance, magnetic resistance changes in the attached diagrams. Bypass/swith core saturaton causes a magnetic resistance increasing and the result is a direction change of PM magnetic flux to the output secton of the main core. The magnetic flux change dФ/dt causes el. magnetic induction in the output coils. It is depends on the flux change speed and magnetic induction value.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: gyulasun on October 28, 2008, 01:16:24 PM
Hello Rossen,

Thank you for all the interesting and useful info and congratulations on your COP of 1.3 so far!

So you use the higher permeability core for the shunt coil (i.e. for input core) and the smaller permeability cores for the rest to complete the magnetic circuit.  I like your simple but effective setup of the E shape cores.

Regarding the scope shots, would you define where the zero lines are?  And also the time base is in usec or msec?

From the output coils point of view, the flux changes from a maximum value (dictated by the PMs and the core cross sections) to a minimum value (defined by the goodness (quality) of the shunt effect), right?  Well, this means the polarity of the flux does not change in the present setup (when your input appears) but its strength does, right?
Do you also use a diode at the input like Valeri shows if I am not too nosy?  :D 8)

Many thanks,
Gyula
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Getca on October 28, 2008, 05:26:35 PM
Hello Gyula...Thank You for the attention. In the first scope shot the control current is showed and the zero line is the bootom line of the grid. In the second scope shot the ouput voltage cicks are showed and the zero line is the middle grid line. The time base is 10 mikroseconds. It was my early experiment and it only demonstrates the principle of magnetic flux switcing using by Valeri Ivanov, but at high frecuency.
Yes You are right about the flux polarity, but it really changes. First it comes in the output coil, then it comes out the output coil (see GIF animation in one of my previous posts). It is thrue the MEG isn't a transformer and it's quite complicated device from its work point of view.
Now I get a sinusoidal output voltage in my actual device using serial resonant circuit. The output power is  about 45W. The most interesting is when I decrease the load to full short circuit, the input current doesn't change. This means the control and output magnetic loops are separated. I believe I can get better results in this way and I definitely do it. Later I try to post my actual results - scope shots, shematic, etc...
The MEG is posible and You have to be convinced in it.  ;) ;D
P.S. I don't use output rectifier and the control driving impulse is rectangular using power electrnic switch and IC555 timer as a generator.

Best wishes,
Rossen
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on October 28, 2008, 06:36:16 PM
Hi Getca.
Question, how big is your air gaps?
And how do you measure the amp usage? With a amp shunt and scope or an amp meter, and did you keep in mind that amp x volt = watt only applies for dc and in any other case you first need to determine the amsp/volt rms values. What I am trying to say that it is difficult to really tell watts when scope volt and amp traces are 'strangely' shaped. Not criticizing you, just wondering.

Many thanks!
Steven
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on October 28, 2008, 06:40:43 PM
Hi Altium and thanks for the info!
Did you see his device or was it in a box, like in the video?

You say: "Input power is sinusoidal 50Hz"
Does that mean that he is directly driving the device with the sinusoidal input?
Or is that sinusoidal input fed to a diode or driving circuit?

Thanks
Steven
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: altium on October 28, 2008, 09:33:39 PM
In Waleri Ivanov`s home, I was seen black working box with sinusoidal input - from big transformer 220V/30V 50Hz (such as video) and sinusoidal output. I saw unfinished items (see flash video and pictures from inwertor`s site) next to him.
All powers was CORRECTLY measured with oscilloscopes, analog multimeters, etc. I do like precision measurement.

But now I`m work with Getca on his construction. We expect good results with COP=2.
We will give to you more updated information later, just be patient please.

Special greetings to all inventors, who NOT shared his information. :)


Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on October 29, 2008, 09:34:57 PM
Well I wonder of someone can answer this, but here goes:
Why does Ivanov use half wave ac and not just full wave ac..? I mean it is the saturation level that counts and so the polarity of the field should/does not matter. So why the half wave ac?

Regards,
Steven
Title: aero fraud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: empiricalobserver2012 on October 29, 2008, 10:30:41 PM
 >:(Steven Greer's AERO and Orion Project: sincere effort to usher in free energy or eloquent intel. front
 
 
Steven Greer, the chairman of The Disclosure Project, the organization founded in the early ninety nineties to disclose the presence of extraterrestrials and government suppression of evidence regarding the matter has taken on a newer, more daring escapade. This time, disclosing free energy technology to the world by presenting a robust , functional, closed loop, multiple kilowatt free energy device to the world, in tandem with a myriad of free energy inventors and a network of elite celebrities who are determined to see clean abundant alternatives into to the light. All this will be presented at a conference at the
National Press Club, in the same fashion as his famed 01 conference. The idea is to reach hundreds of millions, to make them aware that there are more clean alternatives than wind , geothermal and solar. He has stated that he is working on having a demonstrator unit built  and have it be duplicated and verified by at least three independent sources. So, we assume that there are no robust units available in the public domain and that this is the obstacle to the grand press conference. He founded two organizations in this light- a non profit- Orion Project- to develop technology  and a standard company- AERO(Advanced Energy Research Organization) for marketing. In addition to this, he has asked for the public to donate three million dollars for a research facility. He states repeatedly through radio talk shows and visual presentations that all free energy inventors needs to work with him because that's the only way they can get around the ardent suppression of the last 100 years. The suppression is without doubt but the fact of the matter is that there are numerous free energy machines in the public domain, robust , multiple kilowatt. They are few and far between , but the holders of these units would be more than happy to give Greer a unit if they believed he was sincere. Greer does not have to have it build and some have been on record for multiple decades and their validity is incontrovertible, already verified and either ready for production as is or on the
brink of it. It is doubtful that he is not aware of:
 
 
1. testatika 3kw self running, harnessing electrostatic energy, multiple units, ranging from 300 watts to 30 kilowatts have been running Meternitha ,Switzerland for the last 30 years
 
 
 
2. bedini generator 10kw, runs John Bedini's workshop lights, New Energy Series dvds
 
 
 
3. newman generator - has been on record for 20 years , validated by 40 professionals, Joe Newman  appeared on johnny Carson, and given wide media coverage, has videos on google video showing his machines work
 
 
4. Daniel Dingel water cars, on record since 1968, has multiple cars running on water for everyday driving and farm work, Daniel Dingel is not dead and his cars, which exist today are as functional as anything Stan Meyer came up with.
 
 
Based of of his cozy relationship with people like the Rockefellers( the illuminati) and his lack of action as far the obvious is concerned, it must be looked upon as a likely possibility that whole affair may be nothing but a trojan hose, keeping tracks on inventors  and keeping them from attempting anything on their own.this is not a novel concept, the Noetics Institute of Edgar mitchell is just that. On the other hand , free energy is not intangible such as aliens, and we are at the cusp of a totalitarian police state- the new world order- and free energy would disrupt that
 
i call upon governing members of the free energy movement, such as Sterling d Allan and Tom Beardan to look into this affair because something stinks
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: gyulasun on October 29, 2008, 11:53:45 PM
Well I wonder of someone can answer this, but here goes:
Why does Ivanov use half wave ac and not just full wave ac..? I mean it is the saturation level that counts and so the polarity of the field should/does not matter. So why the half wave ac?

Regards,
Steven

Hi Steven,

I have also pondered on this question.  I think if you use full wave AC, then core saturation can occur twice within one full cycle so frequency doubling takes place in the output waveform, 100Hz out for a 50Hz input.

Of course you have to take care of the DC excitation received from the half wave rectification because it surely biases the input core to a certain direction on the B/H curve.

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Kator01 on October 30, 2008, 01:28:05 AM
Hello Steven,

good question. I once had observed a weird effect when I loaded the primary of a step-down ring-transformer
( 230 V -> 12 Volt , 100 Watt ) with a halfwave, as this is shown in the hand-drawing above . Since I am a cautious person I put in series behind the diode a 230 V incandescant-bulb ( 30 Watt ). Now without diode the free wheeling transformer ( no load attached to the secondary) usually consumes just 0.7 watt and the bulb is dark.
But with diode the bulb was fully lit and the ring-transformer was humming and vibrating very loud with 50 Hz.

I stopped this experiment because at that time I thought it does not make sense to have that much of energy lost already at the primary with no load. Now the problem was that my watt-meter ( I bought this from a professional electronic-company here in germany) was showing more than 30 Watt input, so I knew then that it was reading false values.

You can try this yourself. I think something weird is happening with the Kick-Back-EMF after each halfe-wave which is not synchronized with the grid-frequency. If the kick-back-emf arrises it feeds back into the grid at the time the negative-part of the sinus-wave of the grid is on thus it is a grid-controlled back-feeding of the Kick-Back-EMF with no diode.
I now must repeat this experiment and find out more.

When I say Kick-Back-EMF then I do not refer to Back-EMF - this is something different.

In order to give you an impression of this  Kick-Back-EMF - especially in ring-transformers - you do the following experiment :

You take a transformer ( ring-trafo or a usual trafo of bigger size - at least 100 Watt ) measure with a analoge-Ohm-Meter  the primary until the scaler has reached his final position. Then - and you have to do this very quick in about 2 seconds  - you disconnect the probes and measure again but this time with changed probe- position on the leads. Tell me what you see.


Regards

Kator
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Kator01 on October 30, 2008, 01:50:14 AM
Hi Getca,

can you please tell us what coretype is the bypass and basic loop by naming it in you pic MEG_1.1.jpg.

Thanks

Kator
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Getca on October 30, 2008, 09:52:46 AM
Hello Steven...
The air gaps are between 0,5 and 1.5mm and it depends on the frequency and output power. About the measurement I use the basic theory like this http://www.opamp-electronics.com/tutorials/measurements_of_ac_magnitude_2_01_03.htm (http://www.opamp-electronics.com/tutorials/measurements_of_ac_magnitude_2_01_03.htm) for AC output sinusoidal voltage and DC meter for the input DC voltage and current.
Why Mr Ivanov uses a half wave AC...I think because it's the simple way to drive the control coils and get back the magnetic energy via only one power diode. If he uses a push-pull magnetic sheme he just drives the control coils by the (+) and (-) half waves of AC input voltage. Of cource it's only my asumption... ;)

Regards...
Rossen
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Getca on October 30, 2008, 11:51:14 AM
Hello Kator...
Nothing special about the cores. The main core E shaped, 12x15mm middle section, Al~200. The shunt core E 20/6, 6x6mm middle section, Al~1300. The cores working fracuency is under 100kHz. It was my early experiment, but it demonstrates a working principle of a magnetic flux switching using magnetic bypass with a core saturation.

Best wishes...
Rossen
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Kator01 on October 30, 2008, 12:35:54 PM
Hello all,

please find attached the pic of the powermeter this inventor used for measuring input-power.

These types of meter do not show correct values. This is a type I used in my above describe experiment.

So it is necesssary to do it right. DC - Input is easy but no ac.

search here for anarticle of Proj. Kanarev on "The law of the elecric circuit" :

http://guns.connect.fi/innoplaza/energy/story/Kanarev/#articles (http://guns.connect.fi/innoplaza/energy/story/Kanarev/#articles)

Best Regards

Kator




Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Getca on October 30, 2008, 01:54:11 PM
In Waleri Ivanov`s home, I was seen black working box with sinusoidal input - from big transformer 220V/30V 50Hz (such as video) and sinusoidal output. I saw unfinished items (see flash video and pictures from inwertor`s site) next to him.
All powers was CORRECTLY measured with oscilloscopes, analog multimeters, etc. I do like precision measurement.

This device in the picture is AC power meter and it's sold by Conrad Electronics as a power meter of sinus shaped voltage and current. Maybe there is something wrong if the input current wave has a different form. But Altium says all is OK and the measurement is correct.

Wish You success
Rossen
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on October 30, 2008, 05:22:30 PM
Hi all, well I will just give ya'll my view on how his 'recent devices' are being powered.
Yes he for some reason used half wave ac.
But I very much believe that these days with the systems 'in the box' he is using a different approach.

I very much believe that the is taking regular ac, which is in the box rectified to a steady dc state. This dc is pulsed in short duty cycle pulses to the input coil. But the important thing is that on the input coil is also a (tuned) capacitor. What this does is make the signal on the input a resonant sinus.

You see, you only need to input power to the input coil for as long as it takes to flip the magnet over. Any longer and it's wasted. If it takes 10ms to fully flip over the field of the magnet, then it is wasteful to input for example 20ms. And you only have ''pulse length control' with custom adjustable pulse width modulation, not with half wave ac...
And the advantage the cap gives is if you take a coil and a cap, and you very briefly pulse it with a dc pulse, the power will oscillate for a while in a ac sinus fashion in the coil and cap. So it is a way of getting clear ac from dc pulses.

This is in my opinion what he describes in picture Bm002.gif (see below)
And what the latest video shows is just that... short duty cycle dc pulses on a cap: See picture Bm001.jpg (also below)
And keep in mind that there probably is much more stuff in the box then the meg itself. I mean what are all these components? See image Bm003.jpg.

And there is this thing as well:
It goes like this: You switch the switch(input) coil and that core section (near)saturates and the magnet field goes to the output side. There, there is a cap and a load, the (tuned) cap is damn necessary it helps the output 10 fold and makes the output a pure ac since. Welnow you power off the input coil and the field of the magnet return to the side of the switching coil. BUT this returning of the field is due to the airgap a 'free field change' that seemingly is not used. And should be near as powerful as the first magnet switch action. Well what I now suspect is that, the switch coil is like said before fed with short input dc pulses and has a cap to make the resulting wave ac, which helps the core in various ways. BUT the returning field of the magnet is in combination with the cap there is systems that due to the return of the field induces power in the coil but on that coil is a cap and so with the right cap a resonance is set up. In such a way is the returning field translated in helping the switching along greatly. 

Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on October 30, 2008, 11:05:38 PM
Oh and here is a video of what I mean:

http://www.mediafire.com/?01jmhtwy22x (http://www.mediafire.com/?01jmhtwy22x)

Regards,
Steven
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Getca on October 31, 2008, 10:00:01 AM
 ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Kator01 on October 31, 2008, 01:31:17 PM
Hi Getca,

no, it is showing wrong values even with sinus-waveform. I had a much better one form ELV. But even this one had a measurement-error of 10 - 15 %. They are al made in China and  have simply wrong software which returns false values of real wattage based on a wrong the phase-shift-angle-calculation. I state here strongly agian not to use these type of devices, but rely only on scope-measurements. I have given you the Kanarev-Link. All is written in there. You have even the advantage to read his papers in original language

Why do I get involved here is simply to avoid that you spent time barking at the wrong tree.

I estimate this configuration as a good concept . . . but please use true measurement-techniques and not incandescent light-bulbs for output-proof, only linear-resistors and voltage-measurement across these resistors
with scope.
Needless to say that JLN-Labs was presenting the biggest failure with his MEG. He used neons. What a blunder.

Regards

Kator
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Kator01 on October 31, 2008, 01:37:24 PM
Hi Getca,

what are you frowning at ?

Kator
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on October 31, 2008, 02:16:37 PM
Looks like a Full wave bridge rectifier on a heatsink to me.
Only it is used in half wave.

Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Getca on October 31, 2008, 02:49:25 PM
I estimate this configuration as a good concept . . . but please use true measurement-techniques and not incandescent light-bulbs for output-proof, only linear-resistors and voltage-measurement across these resistors with scope.

Hello Kator...Why not lamp-bulbs? It's just non-linear load. What's the problem. Yes, I used something linear-resistors, but I couldn't see a diference. The MEG device was working correctly. Don't forget the MEG isn't a transformer and can work with output short circuit without input current rising. You are right about the scope, but Ivanov's measurement is correct and it's true. If You don't believe ask Altium. Well, how do I understand this one:
what are you frowning at ?
Kator

Don't You talk about the Ivanofv's MEG picture? If it's so I have shown a rectifier by a red arrow and if You spend some time thinking, You can get the true about the control coils driving. In my opinion there isn't any kind of switching electronics.

Regards...
Rossen
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: nievesoliveras on October 31, 2008, 06:16:54 PM
Hi!

@nali2001

I saw the video and it raised several questions in my mind.

1. Is the transistor showed on the graphic PNP or NPN?
2. The capacitor is 1uf, but what is the voltage?
3. The diode is germanium or 1n4007?
4. How many turns are on the coil?

Jesus
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on October 31, 2008, 07:22:06 PM
1: A irfp250 npn fet was used at 24v 50% duty.
2: The voltage of the cap was 100v max. All together 1mf was needed for 'best wave', but ya need to tune the cap which means maybe in you setup you would need 2mf or 100mf/ depends on freq/volt/pulse width. Just connect a scope and add or remove caps until you get what you want. Anyway the 'oscillating' sine voltage that is produced is many time higher than the initial voltage input. One other thing the caps must be foil or run caps. And not electrolytic caps since have a fixed polarity.
3: The diode can be anything that supports the volts (and amps in real use) I think I used a Byv95c http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/61974/GE/BYV95C.html (http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/61974/GE/BYV95C.html) But any cheap diode will do use 600v or 800v types or something to be sure. Not that important in these '1watt' tests.
4: Don't know how many turns, was not all that important at the time, the test was to show the effect but If I have to make a guess I'd say 500wraps of 0.8mm wire.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: nievesoliveras on October 31, 2008, 08:57:07 PM
Hi!

Thank you nali2001!
I have another question if it is not too much to ask.
If I dont have an oscilloscope. Is there anyway to know the values of the capacitance I need?

Jesus
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on October 31, 2008, 11:07:51 PM
Hmm well, you could use a volt meter (I prefer analogue) to see which value cap gives the biggest peak to peak sine wave voltage.
But a max voltage peak is not really the idea behind this pulse-to-sine method in meg use. You need the right value cap so that the sine it produces correctly 'connects up' with the next dc pulse. And only a scope can 'show' this to ya. If you have some spare cash I recommend to get yourself a second hand scope http://shop.ebay.com/items/__oscilloscope_W0QQ_nkwZoscilloscopeQ20QQ_cqrZtrueQQ_nkwuscZocciloscope (http://shop.ebay.com/items/__oscilloscope_W0QQ_nkwZoscilloscopeQ20QQ_cqrZtrueQQ_nkwuscZocciloscope) or a usb scope. I have(and a old analogue one): http://shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=dso-2090&_sacat=0&_fromfsb=&_trksid=m270.l1313&_odkw=2090&_osacat=0 (http://shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=dso-2090&_sacat=0&_fromfsb=&_trksid=m270.l1313&_odkw=2090&_osacat=0) The software has some very handy functions like real time rms calculation form strange waveforms and such. Comes with two probes as well.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on November 01, 2008, 12:02:32 AM
That your transformer with diode was lighting the bulb is because regular transformers can't handle dc (half wave) transformation. If you pulse a core constantly at one input polarity it will in between pulses not 'reset' or flip it's polity and so always tend to stay in a 90% magnetized state, even in between pulses. That means it saturates in a blink of an eye and start pulling massive amps. Those amps were pulled through your bulb so it lit up. That is why there is ac, so that the polarity of the core is inverted each cycle which causes good field change and so good output/performance. Also it will in ac set up a back emf against itself so when unloaded it only draws one watt or so. Simple to test, put half wave ac in a transformer and it saturated with a few volts/ and whop the amps sky rocket. And yes if a core is saturated it can pull 10amps+ easily(no limit). You then only have dc resistance on your coil. So your 100watt core was most very likely pulling more than that. In a sense you made a 'saturable reactor' or else know as a 'Magnetic amplifier' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_amplifier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_amplifier) Where the saturation level of the core acts as a switch(regulator) for the to-be-regulated ac power. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturable_reactor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturable_reactor)


Lets call back emf> Bemf
and a inductive collapse/flyback> inductive collapse

Did the ohm test you described and don't really see anything unusual. Same value each combo. So maybe you used a core that hold a little permanent field?

Regards,
Steven



Hello Steven,

good question. I once had observed a weird effect when I loaded the primary of a step-down ring-transformer
( 230 V -> 12 Volt , 100 Watt ) with a halfwave, as this is shown in the hand-drawing above . Since I am a cautious person I put in series behind the diode a 230 V incandescant-bulb ( 30 Watt ). Now without diode the free wheeling transformer ( no load attached to the secondary) usually consumes just 0.7 watt and the bulb is dark.
But with diode the bulb was fully lit and the ring-transformer was humming and vibrating very loud with 50 Hz.

I stopped this experiment because at that time I thought it does not make sense to have that much of energy lost already at the primary with no load. Now the problem was that my watt-meter ( I bought this from a professional electronic-company here in germany) was showing more than 30 Watt input, so I knew then that it was reading false values.

You can try this yourself. I think something weird is happening with the Kick-Back-EMF after each halfe-wave which is not synchronized with the grid-frequency. If the kick-back-emf arrises it feeds back into the grid at the time the negative-part of the sinus-wave of the grid is on thus it is a grid-controlled back-feeding of the Kick-Back-EMF with no diode.
I now must repeat this experiment and find out more.

When I say Kick-Back-EMF then I do not refer to Back-EMF - this is something different.

In order to give you an impression of this  Kick-Back-EMF - especially in ring-transformers - you do the following experiment :

You take a transformer ( ring-trafo or a usual trafo of bigger size - at least 100 Watt ) measure with a analoge-Ohm-Meter  the primary until the scaler has reached his final position. Then - and you have to do this very quick in about 2 seconds  - you disconnect the probes and measure again but this time with changed probe- position on the leads. Tell me what you see.


Regards

Kator
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Kator01 on November 01, 2008, 12:04:54 AM
Hi Getca,

lol !
why I asked you if you are frowning is because you just put these three images  ??? ??? ??? without any further
comments.

No, I don not question your results but just want to make it sure you use correct measurement-values.

Why not bulbs ? Because it is of no advantage since they have a non-linear inner resistance depending on voltage and current : you have to measure in the same way - as you stated wiht scope

1) Current
2) Voltage

to find the actual power

Many inventors just use the brightness of an incandescant bulb for cop > 1- proof.  And I assume you know this here :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescent_light_bulb (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescent_light_bulb)


Go to paragraph : Electrical characteritics

... and understand that you can - for example - have verly large current at lower voltage ( bulb is dark ) and lower current at higher Voltage ( bulb is lit ) but wattage is bigger in the dark input-bulb.

In order to have proof it is a must to use normal resistors and not bulbs.

I do stress this subject here because in one of the videos he showed  three bulbs in series lit up by the MEG.

Regards

Kator






Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Kator01 on November 01, 2008, 12:21:20 AM
Hi Steven,

thank you very much for your explanation. Helped me a lot.
Now back to the resistance-measuring effect.

What kind of transformer did you use ?

In case you have a good ring-transformer ( even if it is a small one 50 Watt ) you will observe first a quick movement of the scaler until it reaches the final ohm-value of the primary. Now if you disconnect the probes and change the position left to right and right to left ( very quickly ) you will observe in the first second almost no movement of the scaler and then very slowly creeping up to the same value as before. It is the time-factor indicating the counter-action of the inductive collapse of the first measurement-step.

Regards


Kator

Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 01, 2008, 02:12:39 AM
HI!

Thank you nali2001.
I will have to wait to next year to try to buy that equipment.

Jesus
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Getca on November 01, 2008, 10:16:18 AM
Hello, Kator...What did I mean with this one  ??? ??? ???...I just wanted to show You that Valery used a half way rectifier to drive his control coils. The diode is opened when the input voltage exceeds the resonant one. It's just like an acumulator charging. That's all. ;)
The light-bulbs...You are right when the measurement is correct there isn't a problem of its usage. The light-bulb works like a current generator approximatelly in a part of the U-I curve. It's easy to use it instead of power linear resistors. Yes, the current is big, nearly short circuit when the voltage is too low, but it can help me to see how the MEG reacts. So the linear resistor is not a real load. This device will work variebly loaded in real conditions I think.
Well, I wrote I used a scope to measure the sinusoidal voltage and current in my device and can attach a measurement diagram. But I thought it isn't necessary, because everyone have to know how to do it.
About Valery's measurement...Please ask Altium, who knows the inventor personally and can confirm the measuremen was correct.

Regards...
Rossen
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: altium on November 01, 2008, 11:00:10 AM
All measurent ot Waleri Ivanow`s INKOMP was correct with COP~0.25!
I was there and was see with my eyes and I use good and accuracy analog oscilloscopes, analog multimeters, etc.
Problem is, that Waleri not shared all technical information of his device, only the theory. And he not want to SHARE or SALE any working models. He want to sale output electricity to energy companyes.

So, all my hopes now are in my friend and good inventor Getca.
Just be patient, please, all information with ALL TECHNICAL DETAILS, shem, results wil be shared when device is finalized.
We are not like some persons, who CANNOT shared information of working device for all of us.
Just look GPL license and Linux history. This is right way.


Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on November 01, 2008, 12:24:44 PM
Hmm but if he is only using one side of the half wave sine then he can not be using a 'push pull'(not really pull) configuration. Since then you would need half part of the sine wave on each side of the device.

But damn, I'm confused I mean in my test I am having a very hard time to get efficient workings with anything that is constantly powered by one polarity like half wave. Even with a big cap on top.

Hmm
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Kator01 on November 01, 2008, 09:01:28 PM
Hello all,

some time ago I got these transformers from our dump here in the little town i live  ( southern germany).

I have four of them. They are very rare because transformer for bigger Neon-Istallations use a different technique.

These big boys create two times 4000 Volt  at 40 mA !

The two coils at the bottom are the primary coils and just above it in the center ( see pic 2 in an extra post) you have a short piece of laminated core wich can be mechanically driven in and out  ( between the the main-core ) by the black knob thus modulating the flux by gradually shorting it . In this way the power-out is controlled. This is an old techique and is doing in a steady way what the proposed MEG is doing in a dynamic way.Some time ago I was buying a new one of the company of the last series they produced. But this new one is sealed completely in ceramic material. So when I got these four from the dump I was very happy and I was pondering the last two months what to do with it.

Yesterday I had another look at these black boys and then I saw the possibility to use these transformers for the MEG. I only have to cut off the core below the primaries, then remove the primaries, attach the magnets and close the loop with the cut-off-part of the core.

Now I have an idea how to switch the flux exacty  at the point where the mechanical movable bar is situated.
The only thing I am not sure about is if this core-material ( laminated core for 50 Hz-Application ) is suitable for this. If this works I could minimize the effort because I dont have to produce the secondaries.

What do you think ?

Regards

Kator
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Kator01 on November 01, 2008, 09:03:50 PM
Hello all,

here is pic2 showing the details of the mechanical flux-modulation.

Regards

Kator
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: gyulasun on November 01, 2008, 10:38:38 PM
Hmm but if he is only using one side of the half wave sine then he can not be using a 'push pull'(not really pull) configuration. Since then you would need half part of the sine wave on each side of the device.  

But damn, I'm confused I mean in my test I am having a very hard time to get efficient workings with anything that is constantly powered by one polarity like half wave. Even with a big cap on top.

Hmm

Hi Steven,

I underlined your text above I would like to address.  I attached an picture from Getca what I edited for showing a push-pull set-up how I think the postive half wave on the left side and the negative half wave of the same cycle on the right side would control the magnetic shunts, I just mean the principle.  This way the missing any one half wave is joined in the output coil,  and there will be no lost half waves,  at least this is how I think, (maybe I am wrong).

This driving principle could be valid for this push-pull setup shown here by Getca: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4300.msg134494#msg134494 

What do you all think?

rgds,  Gyula

Edit: maybe the polarities of PM3 and PM4 are wrong but you understand what I meant.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on November 01, 2008, 11:55:13 PM
Hi Gyula,
Yes that indeed is a way to drive one such a device.
But if he indeed uses only one part of the half wave your design could not be used since that once needs on each side half of the ac sine.

And in my opinion design http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4300.msg134494#msg134494 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4300.msg134494#msg134494) could work just as well without airgap.
If driven that each side gets half wave ac each 180degree part of the sine ac.

Just for you who have never seen it, see that attached System.doc file for some info, crappy translation though.
And note the odd placement of the magnet, think about it. It's odd, when the Loop core saturates the fied from the magnet is supposed to go to the output side...?

Also try to follow his calculations in the attached: Calculations.doc
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: gyulasun on November 02, 2008, 02:23:34 PM
Hi Steven,

Well I think some small but important details are still unknown for us but sooner or later we learn.

Re on air gap: I think air gap(s) are a good thing for controlling the amount of maximum flux permissable for a given core so maybe the setup in message #134494 could work without gaps you have a simple but effective flux control means for the permanent magnets to avoid saturation in the output cores.

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on November 02, 2008, 05:25:25 PM
One thing I noticed in the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npFVaeSbk1Q
Is that the full wave diode is not connected this time. The cables just run past it.
But who knows what is all in the box?

Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on November 02, 2008, 05:32:19 PM
Hi Kator,
Hmm look at that thing lol!
Whats the black stuff? Anyway Yes with some modifications you could have yourself a test setup. Well the material should be good enough. Unless you want to go high frequency.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: altium on November 03, 2008, 12:25:54 AM
Quote
But who knows what is all in the box?

In black box are INKOMP (Integral Commutator of magnetic fluxes) and only autor know what is inside.
We only know basuc principle. But I think that it`s enough?

Look at Getca`s schem and results.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Kator01 on November 03, 2008, 01:32:07 AM
Hi Steven,

what´s the black stuff ? I guess you are referring to the black coating. The coating of the transformer-core is some black varnish and the black coating on the cores is some sticky stuff. These transformers are designed for outdoor-usage. They were mounted on teh roof near the neons in a metal-box which is not waterproof.

Yea, this black boys are very deadly if you are not careful when using grid-power.

however if you use a 12 V- dc-power-puls instead of the 230 Volts then you have a very good step-up-transformer where you can regulate Voltage and  power in two ways : DC-PWM and driving  this core-piece in and out.

Very robust stuff, work for eons ( related to our lifespan of course )

Regards

Kator
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Getca on November 03, 2008, 10:27:45 AM
Hello to all inventors... :)
What do You think about the attached scope shot http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4300.0;attach=27305;image (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4300.0;attach=27305;image)
It's important to analyse it and try to realize what happens in the output coil when the PM's flux is switched. The shot was made withot output air gaps. What do You think about the Lenz law and haw it includes in the MEG's working?.. I can give You an advise to compare the working principle of a trnsformer and MEG and get the differences. ;) It isn't too hard to do.

Wish You success...
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: gyulasun on November 03, 2008, 12:13:29 PM
Hi Rossen,

I assume the scope shot you ask refers to a loaded output voltage waveform and not to an unloaded one, right?

Although it shows a long and flat near zero level area, it has very little Lenz with respect to the input current... This should come from the construction of the input coil+core: using a closed core in itself for the input is the great idea here, right?  This way the counter flux by the load current cannot really have much effect on the input but it surely has on the permanent magnet flux (but it is free once you bought the magnet...)
And then using resonant output circuit to make the output waveform more sinusoid and higher, this is another good  solution, right?  However, due to the missing airgaps the waveform shows DISTORTION because of starting some saturation already in the output cores.  Saturation is shown by the small tilt/break in the upcoming linear ramp reaching the positive peak.

Are these main questions you have thought of?

I wonder if you agree on my push-pull like modification of your earlier gif animation principle shown here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4300.msg135576#msg135576  I believe it could also work and I wonder if you also think the addition of extra flux from the two extra magnets can increase the output power?  (OF course I do not claim originality with that modification... :D)

Thanks,  Gyula
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Getca on November 03, 2008, 01:18:53 PM
Hi Gyula,

There is some questions for You:
  - Why did the voltage picks have an opposite polarity...
  - What happens if there is a curent in the output circuit. I mean, is there a Lenz effect to PM's flux or not...
  - Is it neseccary to use air gaps and resonant circuit and why could it be usefull...
Please see carefully GIF animation. Think about the whole switching process and try to get how to work the output circuit, flux switching synhronized.
If You guess the answers I'll be ready to discuss about Push-Pull magnetic sheme. In addition I use a rectangular, but not sine control pulses. The output load was a linear resistor, without air gaps and resonant circuit.

Wish You success,
Rossen
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: gyulasun on November 03, 2008, 03:46:00 PM
Hi Rossen,

Somehow I thought the setup on which the scope shot was made on the output voltage included the output capacitor... sorry for this, but it was not a 100% obvious what the exact setup was when you made the scope measurements...  The input current frequency is also different from the output voltage frequency in the two scope shots.  :o  but this is not a problem of course.

Now that a little bit clearer from your above letter what your setup was I may answer your questions  :) :

1) - Why did the voltage picks have an opposite polarity...  Because when the input current suddenly is switched off the flyback pulse across the output coil appears immediately with opposite polarity.

2) - What happens if there is a current in the output circuit. I mean, is there a Lenz effect to PM's flux or not...  The magnetic field caused by the output current surely works against the PM flux, so yes there is Lenz effect.

3) - Is it neseccary to use air gaps and resonant circuit and why could it be usefull...  Yes it is neccessary to use airgaps as the simple means to control the amount of the flux of the PMs. I do believe there is an optimum airgap for any particular setup to find where you can obtain the maximum flux for the given core cross section area without starting core saturation. Using resonant output circuit has the benefit of increasing the output voltage by a certain amount and also to help receive a cleaner sinusoid output waveforms.

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Getca on November 03, 2008, 09:24:59 PM
Hi Gyula,

Sorry if I used a lot of questions and was boring... :D I just want You get a right answer yourself... ;)
Did You see GIF animaton carefully? If You do that, You could be able to realize when an EM induction occurs in the output coil. There icn't a flyback pulse from input to output, but there is a magnetic flux change dФ/dt there. Yes, You are right it is a Lenz effect or Back ElectroMagnetic Field against the flux of PM. So, the question is how to decrease it and get the full magnetic energy... ??? ;) It's the main obstacle to build a MEG replicaton with COP>1. I can only say one of the ways to solve this problem is using a resonant circuit and air gaps. Forming a sinusoidal output wave is the least of all that the resonance does. Don't think about MEG like a switching PS, it's a big mistake. It seems the MEG is simple device, but it's quite complicated.
I'm happy to see people are intereted in MEG building and I believe we could succeed in it together.  :)

Regards,
Rossen
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on November 03, 2008, 10:54:35 PM
One thing I never found a real solution for (yet) is this:
Once you switch-on the input coil so it switches away the field of the magnet to the output, it will return once you turn-off the input coil. Now... it should be possible to somehow recover this returning field of the magnet. Not sure what the best method is. But the returning field should hold considerable potential power. And due to the airgap it is returning on its own, so it is 'free' for the taking. Only thing is how do we take it.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: gyulasun on November 03, 2008, 11:00:30 PM
Hi Rossen,

Thanks for the answers.  In the meantime I realised I gave a misunderstandable answer for your question 1 but by then it was not possible to edit my reply for the second time.  So on the appearing flyback pulse I meant it created from the already induced output voltage under load on the output coil and I did not mean a flyback pulse created in the input coil from the input pulse. I should have written it more clearly.  But it turns out from my reply# 75 this morning that I am aware of the good input-output coil isolation from the mutual induction point of view, simply coming from the arrangements of the cores.  8)

By the way, am I correct in assuming that the flux from the permanent magnets shifts the magnetic operating point from the zero point of the B/H curve in the input core to a (chosen) direction and this way the input power needed for the input core saturation may get reduced by a certain amount because the distance on the curve is less in the PM biased case towards the saturation state than moving from the zero point?  Logic says so for me... ;) 

Cheers,  Gyula

PS: I started to collect some ferrit E and C cores from some junk boxes... ;)
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: gyulasun on November 03, 2008, 11:26:45 PM
One thing I never found a real solution for (yet) is this:
Once you switch-on the input coil so it switches away the field of the magnet to the output, it will return once you turn-off the input coil. Now... it should be possible to somehow recover this returning field of the magnet. Not sure what the best method is. But the returning field should hold considerable potential power. And due to the airgap it is returning on its own, so it is 'free' for the taking. Only thing is how do we take it.

Hi Steven,

If I may chime in with my thought on your question:  in case of the Bulgarian MEG I found the input core was assigned to be always a closed core either a toroidal shape or two rectangular E facing each other, through which the flux equally divided on the two or three legs.   
So whenever the flux goes through fully between (say) the top and bottom parts of the core, induction does occur in the coils wound on the legs but these voltages are with the same polarities in the coils and so their difference is very low. In other words this a needed property we expect from the input coil as isolation (I mean separation) to the rest of the magnetic circuit, actually this deliberate construction greatly helps in separating input from output. 
However, if we were to use further coils on the input core that are not used for saturating the input core at all AND would connect them in the correct phase either parallel or in series then the returning flux of the PM surely could be utilized.  However we also have to think about the separation between these extra coils and the output coils: they may have a mutual effect on each other...  PERHAPS making the extra input coils also resonant by capacitors can help here too. ;) And yes, air gap is also useful here.

rgds,  Gyula

Edit: I am aware of the above assumption of more or less equal induction in case of the E cores legs is a simplification from my part because the central leg usually has got a bigger cross section then any of outer legs but I think this should be taken into consideration at the number of input coil turns on the legs for the correct saturation to happen.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Getca on November 04, 2008, 09:36:43 AM
Hello, Gyula...

It seems to me You begin to get the right answers... :) There are two important things to get - the output circuit and shunt principle of work.
The shunt...We have to get its core saturation and maximum magnetic resistance decreasing using a minimum energy. Think about its working area over B-H curve and the PM flux dependence. Also there is an acumulated energy in the shunt core as the saturation result, but how can we use it?
The output circuit...Think about the flux changes and the voltage induction dependence. Please see the GIF animation...The control core saturates, the flux goes in the output coil, the control pulse is switched off and... You could continue... ;) So, here is the key to minimize the LENZ reaction. Think how does LC-circuit work, what's its voltage and current in the circuit and the phase difference...The resonsnt circuits are used in the switching PS too, but there is an electrical control. However what happens in the MEG?..We have a magnetic control of this LC circuit, because there is only a magnetic flux switching.
I hope my brief thinking would be usefull for You... ;) :)

Regards,
Rossen
 
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Kator01 on November 04, 2008, 11:26:45 PM
Hi all,

good question Steven. I have to ponder on this on.

Now please find attached a diagramm of the permeability of pure iron in dependance of flux-density ( Aw/cm = Ampere-Windings / centimeter ). This is an old physics-book ( unfortunately in german ) dated 1940.

The topic :

Permeability in Fe ( pure iron ) is not constant.

@getca :  if you read this diagramm you will find the answer to your output-voltage-scopeshot. The horizontal part of the voltage-curve is the area in the attached diagram where permeabilty-change is strongest ( the steep rise on the left ) Before this steep rise flux-change is quick ( an so is voltage-change at output ) but once you enter the steep part of the  permeabilty-curve  most of the energy ( dB/dt ) is first  absorbed by the alignement of the tiny elemtary-magnets in the Fe-metal-grid. Now at the peak of the curve ( most of the tiny-magnets are aligned) any flux-change again reflect itself in steep rise of output-voltage.

Best Regards

Kator01


Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: khabe on November 04, 2008, 11:54:14 PM
Found interesting doc. - have not read it myself yet - seems like critique  ... poor Naudin  :'(
http://www.nuscam.com/pdf/garbage_physics.pdf
regards,
khabe
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: i_ron on November 06, 2008, 12:34:26 AM
Found interesting doc. - have not read it myself yet - seems like critique  ... poor Naudin  :'(
http://www.nuscam.com/pdf/garbage_physics.pdf
regards,
khabe

Khabe,

This particular critique is well founded as we all know, or should... but as Shawn Bishop is closely
associated with and writes for and with Randi and Eric Krieg... one should consider the source.

If you read <http://www.phact.org/e/z/betavoltaic.htm> you will see that everything is a scam.
(according to them...)

Ron
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Koen1 on November 06, 2008, 04:21:53 PM
Good point Ron!

Allow me to quote that critical "debunking" report (http://www.nuscam.com/pdf/garbage_physics.pdf),
chapter 6: "Comparing Power In to Power Out":
Quote

P(in)      = ... = 2.47 Watts
P(out)    = ... = 1.25 Watts (for one output coil)
Total P(out) = 2 x 1.25 = 2.50 Watt

"... which is in complete agreement with the Power input."

Right. So in their mind 2.47 Watt = 2.5 Watt, and the difference of 0.03 Watt is equal to zero?
Well, that proves it all then, doesn't it? ;)
Ok, it does show that perhaps Naudin was being a bit overoptimistic and slightly careless
in his input/output diagrams. But it also shows a little bit more output than input, doesn't it?

And though they do show how average power per AC cycle should be calculated,
namely using V(0)*I(0)/2, they do not use that calculation later on to calculate
power output. Instead, they take the resistor value and calculate fom there.
For guys who make such a fanatic point of doing things exaclty by the book
to get exact power calculations, I find it very strange that in this crucial section
of their critique they do not follow their own stringent guidelines of doing things
exactly by the book. Why don't they calculate the average cycle power like they
indicated they were going to do?
Looks like a case of the pot calling the kettle black. They like to insist that
Bearden and Naudin did not calculate the output efficiency correctly, they
tell us how it should have been calculated correctly, and then they don't do it
that way but they do it differently, and still claim they are the ones who
are being consistent? ???

Then, in the critique on Betavoltaic (http://www.phact.org/e/z/betavoltaic.htm) they
claim all kinds of information on the websites of Betavoltaic (http://www.betavoltaic.com/research.html)
which simply is not anywhere on that website.
They also give a url for "PlasmaVolt/Betavoltaic" as www.plasmavolt.com, but there is no such website.
Oh, there is a url, but that's not a site and certainly not one about betavoltaics or nuclear reactions.

I do know of a device called the "PlasmaVolt", which was invented by late inventor Arie M. de Geus,
was tested and found to work and produce output of 80 Watts with a 50 Watt input through fusion
of certain noble gases. Here's a picture and some more info on the guy: http://www.rexresearch.com/degeus/degeus.htm
If that is the device these debunkers are debunking, they must try a bit harder. The entire concept was
to use unconvnetional noble gas fusion induced in a plasma vortex, and so it is not at all surprising
that the theory behind it is also unconventional. Duh. But it did work.

Indeed it seems these guys are out to debunk anything. As long as it gets them publicity
(and money probably).
I find their attitude similar to that of environmental activists: they do fulminate against
the "bad guys" all the time and constantly oppose them shouting "this doesn't work!",
but they never come up with a good alternative that does work and is commercially
viable.

That said, I still haven't seen any working MEGs yet.
The development group appears to have gone silent,
the "closing the loop" can apparently not be achieved,
and there are also still zero "open loop" versions out there...
So there is good reason to doubt the validity of the MEG claims.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: lumen on November 08, 2008, 02:20:32 AM
I was just scanning through the posts over here and it looks like the first few posts (the ones with the pictures) show the toroid coil to be the control coil.

Was it eventually found that the toroid is the output coil or does everyone still think it's the control coil ?

Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on November 08, 2008, 03:38:36 AM
The toroid is indeed the control coil/part of the device.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on November 16, 2008, 11:05:27 PM
Not much to report myself... but anyone here having new results/info?

Regards,
Steven
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Koen1 on November 17, 2008, 08:11:57 PM
Well not really on this specific setup, no. Not from my end anyway.

I have been getting signals from some others I'm in contact with
that some of them have managed to get OU from a toroidal transformer
with pulsed input on the primary and a bemf capture "rectifier" a la
Bedini/Bearden on the secondary, but all of them are just short
term test runs and none have attempted to close that loop yet.
Some of them claim positive regenerative feedback between the ouput
capacitor and the input capacitor is possible, as long as it happens
during a phase in which the input cap is physically disconnected
from the primary coil (through transistor switching or even using
a simple Reed switch).
Sounds like a Bedini-style "radiant energy" pulser/collector "coil"
setup without the battery charging operation to me... ;)
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: lumen on November 18, 2008, 05:22:38 AM

I agree!
If the output was the toroidal coil then the switching coil (the straight coil) would need only a short pulse just as the output was collapsing and the waveform should be like that shown in post 47.

The output would be driven in a circular path around the toroid and provide an output that would be enhanced by the collapsing switching coil. At the output peaks the toroid would reverse the circular field path direction and drive the output in the opposite direction which would be in the same direction it was already collapsing.

Like AC out from the constant drive of the PM DC field in with short pulses to help the direction change.







Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Getca on April 24, 2009, 07:48:34 PM
Hi, all inventors...

There are pictures showing some MEG output effects with spark gap. The supply power is about 30W, but output one is quite higher to make iron pieces red and to melt a thick resistive wire down.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on April 25, 2009, 01:30:47 AM
Hi Getca.
I saw these images on the Bulgarian forum some time ago. Any improvements yet? And what setup are you using these days. Have you measured the output or used other outputs like bulbs and how did they do. Any other interesting improvements done by other Bulgarian users?

I saw that Inkomp-delta has changes their site and seem to be working together with Akoil now. Plus it seems they now removed any real info from the site except for the old video and a photo slide show. Some time ago when their old site was still up I asked Valeri if the systems shown in their old photo section ever produced o.u and he said no. They never went over 100% efficiency and he is using some other layout these days which seems to be working great, but these devices are always inside a box so we have no idea what he is really using these days.

Regards,
Steven
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Getca on April 26, 2009, 11:46:16 AM
Frequency - about 30kHz
Resonant control circuit
Ferrite cores
Supply voltage - 24v
Supply current - 1-1.5a
Output voltage picks - about 800v
Output current picks - 60-800a
Currunt flow time - 300-500nS

The current picks depends on the electrodes material, spark gap, etc...
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nabo00o on May 14, 2009, 05:58:05 PM
 :o
Are those numbers correct!?
That's an insanely high amperage value!
I can see that you melted iron but damn...

So this is primarily the basic MEG, you haven't added anything more to circuit or?
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Ergo on July 23, 2009, 10:18:33 PM
The voltage isn't measured during load and it probably drops like a rock at this moment
while increasing the amperage. If there is 25W output from the 30W input at 0.5V output
during load then this translates into 50 amps flowing through the wires.
That's enough to melt iron in the 'current arc' setup displayed due to a small contact area.
Sorry, no overunity here, as usual.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Getca on July 28, 2009, 10:01:00 PM
Hi, Ergo...

Did You read my previous post carefully?.. I think, not, because there was a SPARK GAP and it was a MEG load. There was not any electrical contact between the electrodes. The output characteristic of this device is falling and a short circuit decreases strongly the output power. So, the gap works like e zener diode - the voltage is about constant, but changes only the current.
Well, I pointed the values above and You can be sure all is correct. The approximated calculation is about efficiency 2 or more.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Kator01 on August 03, 2009, 01:11:25 PM
Hi Getca,

may I present here a link which was sent to me yesterday:

http://www.youtube.com/user/theENERGYDREAM#play/uploads/1/ZUvHhBzffWk (http://www.youtube.com/user/theENERGYDREAM#play/uploads/1/ZUvHhBzffWk)

Due to some research with google I discovered this in the google-cache : a video by Dr. Schwarz embedded on the website "cauta.siteweb.ro" which is Romania - I guess. however the video is removed here. Search on this website for "Dr. Schwartz Free Energy Electromagnetic Generator"

http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:20eCzHJb-xUJ:cauta.siteweb.ro/Y_hitech.html+%22Noahsark+Foundation%22&cd=10&hl=de&ct=clnk&gl=de (http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:20eCzHJb-xUJ:cauta.siteweb.ro/Y_hitech.html+%22Noahsark+Foundation%22&cd=10&hl=de&ct=clnk&gl=de)

Do you know these two persons of Noahsark Foundation ?

The Nr. 11 -Video looks like a MEG-Device but frankly I regards this as a scam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOhfs1Fihd0&feature=channel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOhfs1Fihd0&feature=channel)

I simply wanted to ask you if you know these two persons, because it is my geuss that this is originated from a eastern country .

Regards

Kator01

PS : there is no other information I coud find about this

Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Ergo on August 04, 2009, 12:16:09 AM
Yes, I did, and you are still wrong.

Just before the Spark "ignites" there is a high voltage present but this is
short circuited down to almost zero volt when the Spark crosses the bridge.
This is regular welding technique used by any everyday welding station.
I can easily determine that you lack the skill of how to truly measure the efficiency
of your device. It is actually insanely hard to get correct measurements in a pulsed
setup where the current and voltage is load dependent. Just like your contrapment.
I do encourage you to bring in someone skilled enough to help you take proper
measurements using the right equipment. Then you will see the whole picture yourself.


Hi, Ergo...

Did You read my previous post carefully?.. I think, not, because there was a SPARK GAP and it was a MEG load. There was not any electrical contact between the electrodes. The output characteristic of this device is falling and a short circuit decreases strongly the output power. So, the gap works like e zener diode - the voltage is about constant, but changes only the current.
Well, I pointed the values above and You can be sure all is correct. The approximated calculation is about efficiency 2 or more.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Getca on August 04, 2009, 01:56:39 PM
Hi, all inventors...

Quote
I simply wanted to ask you if you know these two persons, because it is my geuss that this is originated from a eastern country .

Regards

Kator01
Kator01, unfortunately I don't know these persons.

Ergo, it seems, You are quite...self-confident to claim that...
Quote
Just before the Spark "ignites" there is a high voltage present but this is
short circuited down to almost zero volt when the Spark crosses the bridge. This is regular welding technique used by any everyday welding station.

No comment, like the people say. Just get an oscilloscope, carefully see the Voltage/Current pictures on/via any kind of spark gap and then I will be  ready to dicuss.

Well, sorry, but nothing personally to You...O, You are an educated, but sceptic person, I see...I am too... ;D
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on August 08, 2009, 12:50:07 PM
New video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-avdbf9B1w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-avdbf9B1w)
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: winsonali on December 04, 2009, 07:47:28 PM
these MEG circuits will not work as they are not swapping the direction of magnetic field they are just putting impact on magnitude this will saturate the core very quickly and will reduce the effect very strongly  ultimately the power generated will be equal to power output or if there is any extra power again it will not last for long .
until and unless the direction of the magnetic field is completely changing  we will not be able to produce revers curve of BH characteristics which enables the core material to remain neutral.

   
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: winsonali on December 04, 2009, 07:57:41 PM
Charles Flynn parallel path technique will be very good to produce PM magnetic mechanical force switching on and off but this technique cannot be used for the purpose of electricity generation.

once again the same reason the frequency required to generate the electric power is very at least 50 hz and the core material saturates in one direction this is the reason why we need to change the direction of flux to neutralize this effect
this is not possible in this arrangement as both the magnets are in same direction.
but one thing is for sure that if we will develop a motor with this technique that will perform very good
coz that deals with magneto mechanical force not magneto electrical force.   
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: gyulasun on December 04, 2009, 08:59:56 PM
these MEG circuits will not work as they are not swapping the direction of magnetic field they are just putting impact on magnitude this will saturate the core very quickly and will reduce the effect very strongly  ultimately the power generated will be equal to power output or if there is any extra power again it will not last for long .
until and unless the direction of the magnetic field is completely changing  we will not be able to produce revers curve of BH characteristics which enables the core material to remain neutral.
 

Hi Ali,

If I understand correctly the Bulgarian MEG operation is based on pure saturation, the input energy saturates a closed magnetic core and this closed core is embedded into another closed magnetic circuit that has a permanent magnet as an independent source of magnetomotive force. And by bringing the input core into and then out of saturation, the flux strength changes accordingly between a minimum (input energy saturates its own core) and a maximum (input energy is off).   It is true the flux always changes between the same limits and in the setups shown the flux does not change poles  direction in the main flux path driven by the permanent magnet.
So my question is: does this lack of change in the flux direction rules out a COP>1 with this setup? 

See this link here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4300.msg134670#msg134670

Maybe by changing this setup to make the flux (coming from the permanent magnet) change its pole directions you miss, even better COPs could be reached.

Regards, Gyula
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on December 04, 2009, 11:10:48 PM
Indeed the Inkomp device works by bringing the primary close looped core to near saturation only for as long as is necessary. Once that close looped core approaches the saturated state its permeability drops rapidly and so the path from the permanent magnet is forced to find another route. There are many important things here, for one you want a material with a very sharp saturation knee, meaning that saturation will kick in abrupt and without much input. Frequency can be whatever you want and depends on material. How to accomplish the switching is up to the user but some kind of Lc based circuit would be a good choice I think. Special note on the input, the input pulse duration has to be fine tuned. It should only be on, for as long as it takes to switch the magnet field and not longer than that. So very short pulses would indeed be enough. On the scope shots in the video you see a very short duty cycle of only 20% of so. The output side is pure sinewave when Lc tuned to with the right cap. I guess the main difference with this system compared to the 'regular' MEG is that the input and its field never reaches (interacts with) the output coil/side. Input and output fields are more or less separated (except for output-coil lenz that is) But testing should be simple since it does not require any out of the ordinary exotic frequencies or core materials. All in all this thing is very much like a magnetic amplifier.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: winsonali on December 05, 2009, 06:32:07 AM
nali2001

i am not sure about the Inkomp device as they have not disclosed there setup
i am talking in general if you try this by your self you will find that tis setup will not work many people have tried this and they are failed

Lenz force is nothing but an electro mechanical force representation of increased repulsive force with increased current it do not effect the elctro magnetic circuit.

the BH curve will not be fulfilled to the 4th quadrant as it will only move in its 1st quadrant.

a simple experiment will explain what i mean with this

take a simple - screw driver and rub it on a magnet only in one direction it will become magnet.

do the same thing but rub in to and fro motion you will see that it will not become magnet
this is very much required when you want to generate energy with MEG you have to get the reverse field applied to neutralized the core material.



Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: winsonali on December 05, 2009, 06:48:31 AM
i want to ask a simple question

i designed an inverter which convert 12 volts into 220 volts at the max. power of 1000 VA
the inverter i design is a fully computerized unit when there is no load it  consume 0.4 amps with full load it consumes 80 amps .



my question is very simple how input understand that the load is increased its time to fetch more current from input.
please also define mutual inductance?
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on December 05, 2009, 06:00:43 PM
Hi Winsonali,
When you have a transformer without a load on it, the input winding will induce/generate a voltage against itself. This (self)induced voltage is a bit lower then the inputed voltage. So for example you input 200v and the self inductance acting on the coil is close to that, say 199v. So in the end there is only 1volt really acting against the ohmic resistances of the coil hence there will be very little amp draw in idle. But once you start loading the output winding the self inductance acting upon the input coil will drop and more actual voltage will act upon the ohmic coil resistance, more amps will be drawn.

Same with a motor at idle. Why does a motor at idle draw little power? Because the motor is generating against itself also. And that generated voltage is canceling out the applied voltage leaving only a very little effective voltage to cause amp flow.

Well here is another 'special' thingy:
Take a 1000watt transformer and apply a dc input. You will see that the core dead saturates with as little as 2watt dc input. Well then, how can it be that, that transformer can in ac operation handle a 1000watt throughput?

And one other thing. How can the secondary of a transformer pickup the induced field from a transformer primary when the magnetic field never actually comes in contact with the output coil. The field is 99% contained in the core and still the output core can interact with it. See the below movie, how the output coil is very much removed from the core ans still works great.

http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/Movie_0001.wmv (http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/Movie_0001.wmv)








Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on December 05, 2009, 06:51:34 PM
Hello Winsonali,
Well about the meg and inkomp. The operation of the meg and means of working are very different from what the inkomp is doing. With the inkomp device, when the magnet is not there there will also be no output at all. In other words, remove the magnet and power the input and you will see nothing on the output coil. The input never couples with the output coil.

I agree with you, the meg will probably not work, at least not the way we are being told it is supposed to work. But again the inkomp is nothing like this.

I understand what you mean with the magnet and screwdriver depiction.
But you must understand that all these effects are very much related to the core type used.
In the inkomp when the input is off, all the magnetism will go through the close looped core part and the level of magnetism in the output coil/core part will be close to zero, but only if the right material is used. Some steels tend to retain the magnetic orientation/level that was force upon them. But the right kind of material will reset itself to a neutral point when at rest. And you need to know what you are doing when designing such thing. Grain aligned cores almost always drop their magnetic field when input power is removed due to their material/structural makeup, while bad laminated steels retain the field and so are not suitable for meg or inkomp usage. Here you have an old video showing the different behavior of different core types. Don't mind some texts in the video since it was part of a bigger video at first:

http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/CoreTests.wmv (http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/CoreTests.wmv)
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Kator01 on December 06, 2009, 01:57:05 AM
Hi Nali,

your video-demonstration is very interesting. One thing I would like to know about the laminated core-experiment :
Did you ever tried to let the pulsed core ( with shorted secondary ) rest for a while to find out if there is a time-constant, i.e a decay-period after which you can seperate the core without opening the secondary coil ?

I can not believe that this is a static process meaning that the magnetic domains remain fixed in one direction by just the presence of a shorted secondary.This is very strange.

Another small step in understanding this better would be to build a switch-circuit with a MOSFET and monitor the pulses of both coils with a two-channel-scope during puls-on-period and then when you open the secondary.

What do you think ?

Regards

Kator

Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: winsonali on December 06, 2009, 02:06:04 AM
nali2001:

you have certainly good knowledge about magnetic field and transformer

the end result is due to flux the resistivity of the coil increases and due to this the power consume in it increases and this results in more current consumption.

i have addressed this issue with the new concept

as we all know
DC can be blocked with a capacitor and AC can be blocked with an inductor.
this is the key for success in MEG.

i appreciate you have very good concept and knowledge.

MEG is possible its not impossible ......
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on December 06, 2009, 12:05:45 PM
Hi Kator,
With the C core and shorted coil the attraction leaks away in about 6 seconds. So it will not be attracted forever due to the coil. It could be that the coil has a capacitance that is for a short while acting as a battery. But perhaps not since such a coil would only be a few Pico or Nano farad. Wonder what would happen is that cosed coil was super conducting.
These C cores are M4 silicon steel and I got them from http://www.alphacoredirect.com/

With the rectangular core (taken from a microwave oven transformer) you see no change in behavior with or without the closed secondary coil. Once you input the field it keeps the two core parts attracted. And this for a very long time. I have had the rectangular cores attracted under the table for an month and after that they were still attracted as strong as ever. So with this core you have very much a hard steel permanent magnet effect. The magnetic domains will keep their force orientation until flipped around by a reverse current input like normal Ac operation.

Magnetic cores like transformer cores come in many varieties and one must take care in choosing the right type/behaviour for the job. In the Inkomp you would want a material which has a very sharp Bh curve, and normal non orientated silicon steel is not always suitable. See for instance the below Bh traces:

Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: LarryC on December 07, 2009, 12:55:32 AM

Hi Nali,

Great video, had seen it a while back, but had forgot and was about to try to create a simple PPMT generator using transformer cores(mistake), based on Flynn's latest patent WO 2008/119055.

I did think of another possible theory that may explain the C core reaction with the secondary shorted. What if the sharp Bh curve allows the flux to be maintained for the six second period. As the core attempts to realign, the flux drops, as this happens the coil would attempt to counter the flux drop causing an increase in flux. So that an oscillation is set up until the flux is completely dissipated.

I had to put your quote at the bottom as there seems to be some type of problem typing after the quotes, as the screen keeps jumping back up to the last quote as I type. Does anyone else have this problem?

Regards, Larry
 

Hi Kator,
With the C core and shorted coil the attraction leaks away in about 6 seconds. So it will not be attracted forever due to the coil. It could be that the coil has a capacitance that is for a short while acting as a battery. But perhaps not since such a coil would only be a few Pico or Nano farad. Wonder what would happen is that cosed coil was super conducting.
These C cores are M4 silicon steel and I got them from http://www.alphacoredirect.com/

Magnetic cores like transformer cores come in many varieties and one must take care in choosing the right type/behaviour for the job. In the Inkomp you would want a material which has a very sharp Bh curve, and normal non orientated silicon steel is not always suitable. See for instance the below Bh traces:

Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: winsonali on December 07, 2009, 02:46:56 AM
Nnali2001 what is your experience regarding permanent magnet based transformers or MEG
how you connect the oscilloscope to get the wave form?

Best transformers are those transformer where the BH curve are low micro wave transformers are usually very good transformers.
your microwave transformer cores must be connected and and due to this reason creating a capacitive load with high flux retained in it you know capacitor keep charges within them selves until and unless the discharge naturally or we discharge them in load. so may be the 6 seconds are the discharge time of the capacitance  created in core with closed loop. 



Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on December 07, 2009, 07:23:15 PM
Hi Larry,
Yes I have posted these video's a few times. It gives some insight info the rather different behavior of core material.

What keeps the cores together with the closed core is probably some kind of capacitance effect although I am not too sure.
Here is another video where in the second half of the video I close the primary coil and open the secondary and the cores stay attracted. So it "should" not really be caused by a charge in the coil since I swap the coils around, its interesting to think about.

See here:
http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/MoreCore.wmv (http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/MoreCore.wmv)

Another video showing a depleting change.
http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/CoilTest.wmv (http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/CoilTest.wmv)
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on December 07, 2009, 07:44:05 PM
Hi Winsonali,
Well it has been awhile since, so I will have to digg into some info how I got that scope trace. I will get back at ya.

I did some permanent magnet assisted transformer/SolidStateGenerator testing a while back but I have not really found anything overly interesting yet. Although I have this video:

http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/DCmagnetTransformer.wmv (http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/DCmagnetTransformer.wmv)

never went any further on that.
I have never tried Bearden's classic Meg since I doubt that works they way they claim it works. It perhaps could be made to work but we don't seem to have that piece of the puzzle.
I have done some simple Inkomp tests and I can assure you that the switching principle does work and is a valid means of field switching approach. Not too difficult to imagine either. Once you saturate the main core the reluctance drops and the field fo the magnet has to find another way. And it is for real that, it is the field of the magnet that gets switched. Remove the magnet and there is no output. Put it back in and the output is back. Problem with the Inkomp is that they guy is not a star in English and that they are in contract with manufacturers and don't reveal anything about how the input switching is done, ac half wave, scr, fets? Some kind of resonant loop back?

In my view the sharpness of the bh curve defines the quality of a transformer. I want the Bh knee sharp. So not much current gets wasted once you reach saturation. But I guess it all depends on the intended use.

In all my tests I have found Microwave oven transformers to be the worst transformers around. They are often made of such cheap material that they lugg current while doing nothing. But since they are big and cheap I have used them often. I have made some isolation transformers out of them and most of the cores with stock primary eat away about 100 to 200 watt in idle doing nothing. And they get hot fast and since the laminations are often also welded it is no wonder there are massive eddy current losses. Anyway I don't use them anymore, I only used wound C cores these days.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: winsonali on December 07, 2009, 11:26:40 PM
very interesting
you will be successful in future you have switched the coil like,  in fly back transformers one direction but collecting the output through 2 coils
when you connected the magnets in reverse direction it drops its power output and increase the current consumption and when they are in the same direction they enhance the power and increase the output and reduce the current requirement.

what is the frequency you are using for switching the coil.

with transformer of microwave they are not designed for continuous us short impulse may be at one time for 1 ~ 3 minutes so for them cost saying is OK versus efficiency but if you use gold star micro wave they use proper silicon sheets.

keep up your working you have very good knowledge where can i see the video of Inkomp.
   
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on December 07, 2009, 11:36:36 PM
Hi Winsonali,
About the Bh scope trace, I used this info: http://electronicdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?AD=1&ArticleID=6155 (http://electronicdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?AD=1&ArticleID=6155)

Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: winsonali on December 08, 2009, 05:52:03 AM
hi nali2001,

have you ever tried to use the BH curve non sharp i mean low iron grade in benefit of your own system i did and it has increased the time of my battery usage, we can say in other words usage as permanent  magnet.
the life of the battery increased by 2 hours in other words it consumes less current at the same power output or you can say has reduced loss greatly.
i have gone through with your other posts you have amazing knowledge.


Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: winsonali on December 08, 2009, 08:42:12 AM
nali2001

i was going through the transformer core material
the findings are as follows

CRGO ( cold roll grain oriented core) =  1.2tesla
CRNGO                                        = 1.0 tesla

ferrite                                         = 0.3 tesla

the C core you are using is compatible to the ferrite core and can handle 0.3 tesla in other words can handle 3000 Gauss

the use of CRGO in micro wave is due to the requirement of high voltage and high current at 50 HZ and that is possible only when the B(sat) value is high enough that is 1.3 Tesla ( or 13000 gauss)

steep rise in value of B in BH curve causes steep fall as well
my analysis
modulated frequency can play strange role in power transformation.
 
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: teslaalset on December 08, 2009, 02:42:29 PM
Another link how to visualize B-H curves on an oscilloscoop:
http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/type_43_ferrite_b-h_curve.htm (http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/type_43_ferrite_b-h_curve.htm)

This one is interesting because it shows you how to measure at different frequencies as well, not only 50 Hz.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on December 08, 2009, 02:50:14 PM
Hi Winsonali,
''C cores" is just a shape term and it does not define material used.
The C cores from my videos are M4 material and are about 1.35T at 50hz.
So they are not like ferrite, and are only intended for 50 > 400 hz

For some of my other tests I use custom cores made by http://www.mkmagnetics.com (http://www.mkmagnetics.com)
The material is FinemetFT3.
http://www.hitachi-metals.co.jp/e/prod/prod02/pdf/hl-fm10-d.pdf (http://www.hitachi-metals.co.jp/e/prod/prod02/pdf/hl-fm10-d.pdf)
It is  considered to be the worlds best material right now, it easily surpasses Metglas materials. One core was about 850 dollar.
It offers supper low losses, relatively high T at very high frequency and dead square Bh loop.
http://www.mkmagnetics.com/dataSheets/pdf/coreSpec.pdf (http://www.mkmagnetics.com/dataSheets/pdf/coreSpec.pdf)



Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: winsonali on December 10, 2009, 05:11:52 PM
nali2001
i was going through your posts amazing you have through command on the subject thanks for knowledge regarding c type core and its properties i am new i am learning
so please don't mind my below average speculations.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: winsonali on December 11, 2009, 03:54:47 AM
 nali2001
 a normal core material saturates in 10 ms its so there is no need to waste power by continuously powering it for 20 ms
this can alone save quite good energy in transformers
this can be represented as flywheel effect in mechanical
how we can describe the same effect when we are generating energy.
   
 
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on December 11, 2009, 07:48:49 PM
Hi winsonali,
Thanks for the positive remarks but I am no expert either, still learning everyday.

I must say I have not really followed your work too much. But I wish you all the success in the world. Just one word of advice though, I have seen many great project go down on this forum due to bombardments of unreasonable comments and requests from armchair minded folks. If you ever get such comments, don't get frustrated and angry. Some folks are more searching for reasons why things can't work, than reasons how to make it work and why. Keep working at your goal and reach the results you seek for.

Back to transformers.
I'm not really sure about the saturation time of a core. It all depends on 3 things. Voltage, current and core material. And the core material is the one defining the eventual limit. Obviously you need current flow to cause magnetism in the first place. And in order for this current to flow you need voltage. The voltage is there to 'battle' the resistance of a material. You can cause a current to build up faster by increasing voltage. But there is a limit. If you want to magnetize a material faster then the hysteresis limit of the core allows, then you are purely wasting power.

Indeed in some special motors and transformers you need to check if you are not powering the core into a full saturation. Since amp draw goes utterly though the roof when saturation is reached. But normal transformers are more or less designed to operate below the saturation level.


Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: winsonali on December 12, 2009, 06:20:40 AM
nali2001
Quote
have seen many great project go down on this forum due to bombardments of unreasonable comments and requests from armchair minded folks. If you ever get such comments, don't get frustrated and angry. Some folks are more searching for reasons why things can't work, than reasons how to make it work and why. Keep working at your goal and reach the results you seek for.

thank you for your advice .. i have made my life through hard times and i know how to meet the targets if my device is successful it  will make its own way..

comming to point of transformer

1) Ohm's law is not true representation of voltage and current relationship in any transformer higher the voltage lower the current.
current is the mass element of power where as voltage is its speed and frequency is its tendency to fly

consider a car it can run but cannot fly if you want to make it fly you have to run faster and with different reference against air not  ground like wise if you want charges to fly you need frequency and antenna.

any way i will send you a program i have made to calculate the fix gauss system and there number of turns.

when we do switching with square wave through DC the most successful way is to reduce the duty cycle so area under the curve should be equal and in this way the flux in core will go back to its neutral value naturally and in this way you will not waste power in returning the status

can you send me some information about how to calculate the Number of turns of transformer based on current equation not on voltage equation.

r u working on making an MEG or just experimenting for fun.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: winsonali on December 12, 2009, 07:15:53 AM
nali2001:

in your video pulsewave i cant see the BEMF pulses why is it so?
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on December 12, 2009, 06:02:17 PM
Hi winsonali
Uhm which pulse wave video?
Which video name did you mean exactly?

Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: winsonali on December 12, 2009, 07:02:09 PM
the video in which you show the use of s capacior to smooth the wave shape and compared the wave shape with INKOMP  MEG. its an old post video of yours.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on December 12, 2009, 09:43:37 PM
Hi Winsonali,
Sorry I do not have formulation to properly design a transformer.

You wrote:
"when we do switching with square wave through DC the most successful way is to reduce the duty cycle so area under the curve should be equal and in this way the flux in core will go back to its neutral value naturally and in this way you will not waste power in returning the status"

This is going to be very hard to explain through written words but I will take my time and describe a few things. Getting a core to go back to neutral polarity in a loaded situation is by fas not as easy as one thinks. I have done some tests years back on Dc transformers. It sounds simple, putting a Dc square wave into a transformer and pick up good power at 50hz. I tell you take your regular transformer approach like http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/Circuit001.jpg (http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/Circuit001.jpg) and I can assure you it does perform horribly.

Why you ask? Well it is because the core can not relax back to a zero magnetic polarity in between the dc pulses. I have told and shown in the Core tests video's that only certain type of cores resets them selfs back to a zero polarity state even when they are close looped. So even if you have the good core type you will not be able to made a good dc transformer out of it with the above circuit. And it is because the core is not allowed to "rest" or reset itself due to 2 components. One being the inductive collapse (or back emf as some wrongfully call it) protection diode on the input coil. And the second is the output coil itself.

You have seen in the Core test video's that closing the secondary coil makes the cores magnetically clamp together for a while. The magnetism in the core wants to dissipate and it is being resisted by the closed output coil. Meaning that any RESISTANCE attached to either the input or output coil will hinder the speed at which the core wants to reset itself to a neutral magnetic state. And the protection diode on the input coil acts as a blockade for the field reset or depletion of the inductive collapse.
So you say, well just remove the diode like: http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/Circuit002.jpg (http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/Circuit002.jpg) and it will work right? Well two things, yes the primary coil is now indeed open and will not restrict the resetting of the core. But the absence of the diode puts the fet at risk from possibly harmful inductive spikes. But if these spikes are not too extreme the fet should survive.

But even with this diode removed the systems will still not work well. And this is because there still is one factor present hindering the core reset after each dc input. And that is the output coil and load itself. A load (a bulb for example) on a output coil is in essence just a resistive short on the output side. And in the core test video you say what happens when a coil is left closed. It will hold the cores together. The field can not escape fast enough and so it can not reset or go back to neutral. Meaning the core will always hold a high degree of residual magnetism. And is because of that in a dc mode not able to produce a big field change. In ac the field change is force since the input is alternating in polarity and will force a flip flopping field change.

Here is what will happen if you don't do it right:
http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/ClampCore.wmv (http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/ClampCore.wmv)
In the video I input a dc square wave in a proper core. In the first test you see the core without an inductive spike protection diode. The core behaves "pure" meaning that it "attracts and lets go". In the second half of the video you see what happens when you do put the protection diode in place, and capture some of that flyback / inductive collapse. You see that the core behavior has totally changed and the two core parts are like welded together... Very strong remnant attractive force is present in the core. This remnant field is the result of the blocking factor of the flyback protection diode. The coil is never "open" and hinders the core reset.

The solution to the dc transformer situation is this:
http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/Circuit003.jpg (http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/Circuit003.jpg)

If you know what is happening in the core and all the component you can do good things in dc. But there are some rules to follow. Hope you people found this all of any use.

Here is the dc transformer:
http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/DCtransformer.wmv (http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/DCtransformer.wmv)

The electrical world is not all that well understood. It is like fire, we all know how to make it and work with it as a known component, but only few know what makes it tick.
Same with transformers. I mean... again, how can the secondary of a transformer interact with the field IN the core...? It does not come in contact with the coil at all and still it generates a good output.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsrbaCJo3Qw&NR=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsrbaCJo3Qw&NR=1)
Eric Dollard (the bearded guy) is in my opinion the best skilled electrical engineer I ever came across. A true old style Tesla expert. Too bad he is so low key.
See all 6 video's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhuSn6sc7sc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhuSn6sc7sc)

And these two:
http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=-6461713170757457294&ei=KgAkS-bSAouW-AbP7vXuDw&q=Longitudinal+tesla# (http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=-6461713170757457294&ei=KgAkS-bSAouW-AbP7vXuDw&q=Longitudinal+tesla#)

http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=-721789270445596549&ei=KgAkS-bSAouW-AbP7vXuDw&q=Longitudinal+tesla# (http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=-721789270445596549&ei=KgAkS-bSAouW-AbP7vXuDw&q=Longitudinal+tesla#)


Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on December 12, 2009, 09:56:47 PM
Hi winsonali,
Ah I see,
Well there are two things to see in the video.
In the first part you see a core pulsed with an about 50% duty square wave. You can infant see the Inductive kickback / flyback or backEmf as you call it. These are the sharp deep negative spikes.

In the second part you see the tuned cap bank being connected. What you see is the Flyback bing swung into the cap and back into the coil again. Sort of like a tank circuit.

Although this resembles the inkomp trace it is very likely not how he does it. Pretty likely he is using a variable thyristor (SCR) to controlled the input. The inventor is more clever then one might think. I have seen him do core and magnetic related things and apply concepts that most don't know of.

I am not actively making a meg myself. All my work is just home experimentation. I have no education in electronics at all, just doing some experiments and reading the web.


Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: gyulasun on December 12, 2009, 11:46:33 PM
...
The solution to the dc transformer situation is this:
http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/Circuit003.jpg (http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/Circuit003.jpg)

If you know what is happening in the core and all the component you can do good things in dc. But there are some rules to follow. Hope you people found this all of any use.

Here is the dc transformer:
http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/DCtransformer.wmv (http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/DCtransformer.wmv)


Hi Steven,

Excellent post, thank you very much for sharing your "DC transformer" circuit, very clever solution.

Keep up your good work!

rgds, Gyula
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: winsonali on December 13, 2009, 05:10:40 AM
nali2001
Quote
I am not actively making a meg myself. All my work is just home experimentation. I have no education in electronics at all, just doing some experiments and reading the we

if you have no education in electronics and you can do all this then think what you could do if you were educated in the same feild what i believe that you are very intelligent and logical so you have the capability to imagine and understand things very well you are not a dump like me.

Now coming to the technical part of the post the essence of the post is
1) DC cannot demagnetize core very easily.
2) DC when come across with closed loops it retain the field for more time then in open loop.
3) either of loops input or output both make same effect on core.

i am very happy with your answers as it is very helpful for other people reading these posts.

when i jump in this post i put forward the same thing that until and unless the power generation unit is reversing itself you cannot produce electricity.

in making my genie working i have not used any coils or transformers.

the sine wave we are using is not by choice, is by early designs there is no harmful effect on electrical devices operating under square wave reversing alternative current, if they are operating through DC i mean almost 90% device use DC conversion to operate computers televisions etc etc. even DC motors.

now if you see the picture i am putting you will under stand  what is effective area under curve.
i have developed inverter based on this switching techniques and i have 2 hours extra backup in my system at 1000 VA.

i have gone through with various patents involving PM in transformers and try to understand why and where they have conceptual differences.
flynn charles MEG will not work as  a generator but works as a parallel path magnet field.

i will be posting my next video early next week video for the self running unit.





 
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: winsonali on December 13, 2009, 07:14:16 AM
this is the simple circuit to charge your same battery/ capacitor with back emf pulses
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: winsonali on December 13, 2009, 07:45:26 AM
this is 50 hz modulated signal with 20 Khz frequency this will give you a fly wheel effect in electronics.
 
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: callanan on December 13, 2009, 08:28:07 AM
this is 50 hz modulated signal with 20 Khz frequency this will give you a fly wheel effect in electronics.

http://jlnlabs.free.fr/projects/ipstst/index.htm

Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: MasterPlaster on December 13, 2009, 01:01:20 PM
@ossie,

Thanks for the link. Have you done any further work since the presentation of your work at JLN?
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on December 13, 2009, 05:22:30 PM
Hi Winsonali,
Yes dual polarity dc switching is what is normally used in "Dc transformation" situations.
Its solves many of the problems experienced with single polarity dc switching.
I like your high freq signal into a 50hz fashion. This is sometimes done in over current sensing/protection situations.

How do you do your dual polarity switching?
With a half bridge?
And if so how do you make a dual polarity power source out of normal dc?
Like for example +220v / 0v / -220v
It is not ideal but I do it like this:
http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/HalfH.jpg (http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/HalfH.jpg)
Or do you use a full bridge?

I also have a heavy duty dual polarity dc switching solution.
It has variable freq and pwm.
http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/Driver001.jpg (http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/Driver001.jpg)

Anyway I am interested in your device.
Do you intend to share the workings or do you intend to go commercial with it?
Can't wait to see your video!

---------------------------------------------------
By the way I still have 10 igbt's for sale. Anyone interested?
Type: BSM150GB120DN2
Sheet: http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets_pdf/B/S/M/1/BSM150GB120DN2.shtml (http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets_pdf/B/S/M/1/BSM150GB120DN2.shtml)
Picture: http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/10_Igbt.jpg (http://home.planet.nl/~sintt000/10_Igbt.jpg)
Price: 35 euro each.


Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: winsonali on December 13, 2009, 09:11:03 PM
nali2001:

here is a simple program i have developed to calculate the number of turns in any solenoid , transformer, or coil
i hope this will help many people.
this program is an exe file just send me email if you need it i will send you this pogram
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: winsonali on December 13, 2009, 11:02:33 PM
nali2001

i will post various versions and patents of PM used in transformers and they are failed to use the proper flux from PM
if we just try to understand where they are making misconception we can reach to conclusions.
all this for sharing knowledge and views.

for instance why this system didn't worked....image posted.

regarding commercialization of my device, yes off course i am a scientist R & D is my bread and butter and i do commercialization but at the same time i will provide information and help to people interested in replication of my work and will send them programmed IC and other required parts so they can assemble by themselves
the systems i am developing they are not home experimenting projects i have a company working and producing my other devices and selling them in local markets i don't put any information regarding sales or marketing over here in respect of forum's integrity. and also my work is to design and create products sales is not my area. 
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: callanan on December 13, 2009, 11:54:20 PM
@ossie,

Thanks for the link. Have you done any further work since the presentation of your work at JLN?

Hi MasterPlaster,

Yes I have done a great deal of work over the years and have been contacted by people wanting to develop it into a commercial system or product. But the development of the IPS is fairly obvious to anyone who understands what it does and how it works. Anyone who understands this can develop it further in many different ways and still get amazing results. It's principle of operation is identical to what Ali presented above except that by using two source batteries, during the HF pulse phase, the back emfs from one side of the circuit is used to charge battery on the opposite side of the circuit.

Regards,

Ossie


Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: NickZ on December 14, 2009, 03:23:47 AM
    To Winsonali:
     I have tried to replicate the device that is in your last image, and have had no success with it.  Can you tell me why you think this device will not function as shown. 
  How can it have a patent and not work as stated in the patent?  What can be done to make it produce electricity? Any ideas are welcome.
              NickZ
     
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: winsonali on December 14, 2009, 03:50:58 AM
NIckZ

obvious and very simple

1) the current is moving in single direction
2) opposing force for magnetic field is equal to output so no net gain but loses
3) flux has no alternating path.

these are the reason why this device will not work

what are your observation and how much work you done on this?

patents are easy to get even you can get the patent for an idea this is a money game.
secondly patent cover working philosophy not complete details.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: NickZ on December 14, 2009, 04:57:02 AM
   Winsonali:
   Thank you for your reply. I have been up many a night working on this unit, and have found it to be very sensitive magnetically to any changes and modifications.
   Although there is an additional switching circuit given as an option in the patent, I have not used it, but have tried to connect a 12v input to outer control coil direct.
   I'm hoping to find a device that will not need a signal generator, battery, or power supply etz... but will work with resonance, instead of being dependent on other external inputs to make it work.  I know I'm not the only one, but it has been impossible to find even one working device of this type. If it does not exist, we need to invent it, as we may not have the electric power grid to depend on much longer.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: winsonali on December 14, 2009, 08:32:49 AM
nali2001 and nickZ

please read this post gotoluc have developed some lens free generator setup
the video link is here on this thread.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7987.new#new
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: LarryC on December 21, 2009, 06:44:18 PM
There has been comments on this thread stating that PPMT cannot work as a generator, which does not agree with the statements made in Flynn’s patents WO 2008/119055 and WO 2008/109834 and his two web sites. So I attempted an easy build generator replication based on PPMT technology.


PPMT1-Patent picture:  This is Figure 20 from the WO 2008/119055 patent. It is showing the flux flow of the unit when the unit has three sets of the rotor segments aligned. No power is being applied. If the rotor is turned at this point the reluctance will increase and flux will start falling in the associated cores. In the other sections the reluctance will decrease and flux will start rising in the associated cores.

PPMT1-Shaded pole motor: Fractional HP motor from bathroom vent unit. High rpm, low torque design for a 4.5 inch diameter fan. This motor increases draw wattage with an increase in load. The coil is 20 ohms. The coil section can be pulled loose from the rotor section.   

PPMT1-drawing: Shows a rough drawing of the generator concept which duplicates one section of Figure 20 patent using parts from 2 shaded pole motor. The rotor and center pieces were cut to vary the reluctance. The iron pieces on back of the magnets are used as a flux pathway, to stop any interference with the generator.

PPMT1-generator close up: This shows the assembled generator. Magnets of ½” by ¼” by 1/16” were stacked to fine tune the performance.

PPMT1-side view: This shows another shaded pole ac motor driving the generator. It does not have enough torque to self start. A manual push is required after switching on.

PPMT1-no load on coils: Shows 35 watts draw on the drive motor when both coils are open.

PPMT1-100 ohm load each coil: This shows the wave form coming from each coil with 100 ohm loads. Proves that the flux is rising and falling in each coil and they are not retaining magnetism. Still shows a 35 watt draw on the drive motor and no noticeable speed change, proving little or no lenz effect. This setup has been run up to 10 minutes with only minimum variance in Vrms, amperage or watts draw. 

PPMT1-100 ohm load each coil with ch1 display: The display, middle column, second row shows a Vrms of  3.41V for one coil and the back meter shows the ac amperage of 33.68MA for one coil. Proves it works as a generator.

Of course, the output is not very impressive, but I’m sure that it could be improved with a better rotor. The original rotor is an ac induction rotor, which has aluminum shorting bars thru the rotor. Looking at the rotor from the side that was cut, it seems to be half aluminum. A silicon steel lamination rotor would perform much better. Also, the fit between the coil core and rotor holder is a little gapped due to having to reverse its normal position. I don’t have the equipment to make a rotor with the required tolerances.

 As a comparison to the PPMT output, I ran another test on a dc motor from a 18V drill which has stronger magnets and the rotor length is 1 ½” as opposed to the 5/8” shaded pole rotor. The rotor shaft could not be turned by the shaded pole motor, so another drill was used to turn it at 1300RPM. It produced 7.5V and 7.40MA with a 100 ohm load.   


Regards, Larry   


Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on December 21, 2009, 07:48:03 PM
Nice build,
The Flynn parallel path motor can very well work as a generator, in fact that is one thing they use it for.
Claiming very good performance as a generator.

The only builders I have seen working on very good replication are some Italian dudes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy3oTS8v1lw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy3oTS8v1lw)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Nlspw1HY-w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Nlspw1HY-w)

Best build:
Showing mechanical OU on a bicycle dynanometer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzVXAm_ONIk&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzVXAm_ONIk&feature=related)

Note the electric drill in the video is to give a accuracy benchmark of the dynanometer, so you have some sort of a reference point.

Building a Flynn motor is not that impossible or full of hidden tech. Only mayor disadvantaged you need many of the same shape laminations and you hardly can make the lamination your own due to the difficult shape. You need to have them stamped.
Cheap prototyping solution: http://www.protolam.com/page2.html (http://www.protolam.com/page2.html)

Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: winsonali on December 22, 2009, 01:10:32 PM
larry C
Quote
There has been comments on this thread stating that PPMT cannot work as a generator, which does not agree with the statements made in Flynn’s patents WO 2008/119055 and WO 2008/109834 and his two web sites. So I attempted an easy build generator replication based on PPMT technology.

the setup you have shown is a mechanical setup
when i said that PPMTwill not be able to produce electricity it is in case of motionless generation

although very good attempt
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: altium on December 26, 2009, 07:07:42 PM
Hello friends!
I think this topic is only for the Valeri Ivanov's INKOMP (integral commutator of magnetic fluxes), so lets talk only for the INKOMP device.

He lives in Elin Pelin, Bulgaria. I met him 2 years ago and I saw real efficiency of COP=240%. The official site is www.inkomp.delta.com. The device is commercial

Autor was posted 5 videos in youtube, I find only 4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IP-buFHKKU  - first video, there he shows the input power, the output power and finally he calculates the efficiency (COP.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npFVaeSbk1Q - second video from autor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFroLlHDHGU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7x_swEeoqA

Because valeri Ivanov does not want to work with us we can freely discuss his device and try to replicate it.

Enjoy.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: altium on December 26, 2009, 07:08:51 PM
Hello friends!
I think this topic is only for the Valeri Ivanov's INKOMP (integral commutator of magnetic fluxes), so lets talk only for the INKOMP device.

He lives in Elin Pelin city, Bulgaria. I met him 2 years ago and I saw real efficiency of COP=240%. The official site is www.inkomp.delta.com. The device is commercial.

Autor was posted 5 videos in youtube, I find only 4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IP-buFHKKU  - first video, there he shows the input power, the output power and finally he calculates the efficiency (COP.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npFVaeSbk1Q - second video from autor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFroLlHDHGU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7x_swEeoqA

Because mr. Ivanov does not want to work with us we can freely discuss his device and try to replicate it. Now I posted possible expanation of device. I am attaching wider image so you can see the details.

Regards,
altium
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on December 26, 2009, 09:50:18 PM
Hi Altium,
Thanks for the info.
Yes it is very likely that the Inkomp is controlled via a variable Scr. Although in the new video's it does look more like a very short duty push-pull signal from an H bridge or something.
Please let us know if there is more info or video's in the future.
Too bad there is not a good picture of his latest device...
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: altium on December 27, 2009, 03:04:01 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFroLlHDHGU

Power calculating of this last video:
*****
Third channel of oscilloscope is not used. I think that in left black box there is batteries, but i`m not sure and mr. Ivanow say only "imitator" fot it. Maybe this is imitator of pseudo sinus signal with mosfets and use hight voltages.

Input:
channel 1=voltage measure=500mV/div divided x200 = 100V/div
V pulse =220V for 2.5ms
channel 2 =current measure= 100mV/div
resistor =0.009 ohm
Frequency=50Hz, T(period)=20ms
I pulse=240mV*0.8/0.009 ohm=0.192/0.009=21.333A   for 2.5ms
DTC=2.5ms/20ms=0.125
Idc input=Ipulse*DTC=21.333*0.125=2.666A, U=220V, Pinput=220*2.666=586W
(for example, P=590W in wattmeter, 7A* in digital ampermeter)
*digital ampermeter is correct only for sinusoidal signals, but here is incorrect!
*******
Output:
232VDC
5A
Poutput=1160W
*********
COP=Pout/Pin=1160/586=1.9795
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: sumermagor on December 28, 2009, 01:14:09 AM
Hello im new to this forum, I've found inventor Boday Arpad has a similar Invention, he has was in a document film called The Banned inventions In Hungary, There is no translation to english, but i can speak the language, And it is for real, The guy puts in the machine about 9 volts 30 mili amps, and he gets approximately 80 watts out, 

Here is the patent:
http://www.ipexl.com/patents/en/CA/Boday_Arpad/Boday_Arpad/Boday_Arpad/CAzzUCzz2172240.html?cr=0&l=en&q=boday+arpad&x=29&y=24&sort=2

I have allready started to replicate, and yet with little succes,

Im using ALNICO 5 Magnets

Im experiencing my replication's vibration increases in ONE frequency, It is interresting, my replication is only about 8cm long and 7cm high,

im going to post pictures and may be some video if i can do something interresting
Please investigate this, as i think we can FINNALY suceed in something with this,

I want earth to be a heavenly place again and clean it from negative energies,
I want my Human brothers and sisters to live in a freedom which is forgot by current in box reality.

Love and Light to All!
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on December 28, 2009, 11:39:30 PM
Hi Sumermagor,
Thanks and please keep us updated on your progress.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on December 28, 2009, 11:42:12 PM
Altium,
Do you understand what he is saying on the video?
I don't speak the language.

Is he saying anything interesting regarding switching means, material, or other special thing that are important for us to know?

Thanks
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Kator01 on December 29, 2009, 02:28:55 AM
Hello all,

there is a big problem with this digital energy-meters which I encountered while I was feeding the primary of a toroid-transformer from the grid via a diode as it is done here in this MEG-Setup.
Nali gave me a lesson on saturable reactors ( remember Nali ? )

Anyway the monitor showed total wrong values of input-power. The only way one can exactly measure actual wattage is with a oszilloscope-measurement on a shunt-resistor in the primary in order to get information about the phaseshift between current and voltage.
These Energy-Monitor-Devices in conjuction with this technique ( feed-in via diode ) are useless. I only remember that the error was in the range of 50 % .

Hope that this will help anyone here who tries to replicate this.

Regards

Kator01
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: altium on December 29, 2009, 03:09:33 PM
@Nali2001,
of course I understand all in video, because I live in too country. But he not say nothing interesting, only about measurements...
Just look at schematic and think about method of saturation of magnetic cores. The schematic is very clear and understandable.

@sumermagor,
very good! Check your mailbox...
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on December 29, 2009, 05:44:56 PM
Hi Altium,
Ah ok, I always wanted to know what he is saying in the video's hoping for some info, but I can imagine he is keeping some secrets.

Yes what you have posted is very logical. I'm don't know how much you know about saturable reactors but most of them also have a little coil called a "bias coil/winding" and it is used to tune the core up to the right working range or saturation level, so that the main input coil only has to give very little power to control the total switching level. In other words that bias winding is there to fine tune the behavior of the device.

In the permeability curve of a core material you see a permeability rise before it gets low. And it is the bias winding which sets the operational rage of the device to that level just before the curve starts to drop. So that the main coil does only have to supply very small input signals.

http://www.tpub.com/content/neets/14180/img/14180_154_2.jpg (http://www.tpub.com/content/neets/14180/img/14180_154_2.jpg)

It could very well be that the inkomp uses such a bias winding as well, or it could benefit from one.
See the picture of what I mean:
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: sn7401 on December 29, 2009, 10:50:00 PM
nali2001

i will post various versions and patents of PM used in transformers and they are failed to use the proper flux from PM
if we just try to understand where they are making misconception we can reach to conclusions.
all this for sharing knowledge and views.

for instance why this system didn't worked....image posted.

regarding commercialization of my device, yes off course i am a scientist R & D is my bread and butter and i do commercialization but at the same time i will provide information and help to people interested in replication of my work and will send them programmed IC and other required parts so they can assemble by themselves
the systems i am developing they are not home experimenting projects i have a company working and producing my other devices and selling them in local markets i don't put any information regarding sales or marketing over here in respect of forum's integrity. and also my work is to design and create products sales is not my area.

hello, I think this system doesnt work becouse of separate magnets are used...
maybe if we put one big flat PM instead of four small it will work?
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: altium on January 06, 2010, 11:40:50 AM
Other video of Inkomp: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-avdbf9B1w
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: sinergicus on January 28, 2010, 06:59:01 PM
I hope  JLN labs will find this and try to replicate in some day....
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Tito L. Oracion on January 29, 2010, 11:21:52 AM
nice vid  :)
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on May 13, 2010, 11:27:37 PM
Just to check, did anyone make any advancements on the Inkomp principle/tech lately?
Any new video's or other info?

Thanks!
Steven
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: alstream on February 07, 2011, 07:56:51 AM
At that time already received a patent, and preparing a presentation technology for Investors.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on February 07, 2011, 02:06:09 PM
Hello Alstream,

Do you know more about this system?
Are you in contact with Inkomp-delta?
Do you know the patent number?

Thanks!
Steven

Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: TinselKoala on February 07, 2011, 05:16:35 PM
Over a year, and only six new posts in this thread talking about a "TRULY OVERUNITY" meg device.

Sad. Very sad.

But I am very glad that you are becoming suspicious about what I call "naive" power measurements.

Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Omnibus on February 07, 2011, 05:54:08 PM
Over a year, and only six new posts in this thread talking about a "TRULY OVERUNITY" meg device.

Sad. Very sad.

But I am very glad that you are becoming suspicious about what I call "naive" power measurements.

I do agree with that. The power measurement in question are indeed naive.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on February 07, 2011, 06:38:33 PM
Well anyway if there is more info about this system I'm very interested. So if there is a public patent number please let me know. In my opinion this is still the most promising 'meg' approach. Only thing is nobody is really building and testing. But than again not much is know about the device either.

Thanks
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: lancaIV on February 07, 2011, 07:29:31 PM
Valeri Chobanov Pat.BG109554 dated 2006/published 2007 without details.

1.000-1.500 $/KW,"nice" price  :-[ !

Sincerely
               CdL
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: alstream on February 08, 2011, 05:54:52 AM
Hello Alstream,

Do you know more about this system?
Are you in contact with Inkomp-delta?
Do you know the patent number?

Thanks!
Steven
I know, we work together.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: alstream on February 08, 2011, 06:08:14 AM
I do agree with that. The power measurement in question are indeed naive.
Correctly measured - the problem.
Moreover, it is very expensive equipment.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 06:16:24 AM
Correctly measured - the problem.
Moreover, it is very expensive equipment.

Like what? Tell us more about the measurement.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on February 08, 2011, 06:40:51 PM
Cool!
Is there anything you can tell about the technology?
Is the system in production yet?

Thanks

I know, we work together.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: alstream on February 08, 2011, 08:54:08 PM
Like what? Tell us more about the measurement.
I can put some pictures, will be clear .
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 09:03:16 PM
I can put some pictures, will be clear .

Pictures alone won't be enough. Tell us something about the methodology of measurement.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Omnibus on February 08, 2011, 09:05:53 PM
Of course, if it's a self-sustaining device you don't need to show any measurements. If it isn't, however, you're in for a big trouble if you try to sustain your OU claims. Measurements to do that aren't at all as straightforward as they may seem at first glance.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: alstream on February 08, 2011, 09:08:39 PM
Cool!
Is there anything you can tell about the technology?
Is the system in production yet?

Thanks
Today we are ready to pass to the level of production.
There are some investors, but all is for the present opened.
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: alstream on February 08, 2011, 09:12:11 PM
Of course, if it's a self-sustaining device you don't need to show any measurements. If it isn't, however, you're in for a big trouble if you try to sustain your OU claims. Measurements to do that aren't at all as straightforward as they may seem at first glance.
"a self-sustaining device" ?
No.. 
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: alstream on February 08, 2011, 09:20:26 PM
Pictures alone won't be enough. Tell us something about the methodology of measurement.
Unfortunately, the best measurements, it when  identical loading
 work from full batteries one hour, and with connection of the device about four hours.


Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: Nali2001 on February 08, 2011, 09:45:38 PM
I can put some pictures, will be clear .

Yes please post some pictures.
There is not much info about this device so please if you can share something please do.
I'm interested!

Thanks
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: gyulasun on February 08, 2011, 10:01:13 PM
I can put some pictures, will be clear .

Hello alstream,

yes please upload some pictures they are sure worth a thousand words. You can directly attache them to any post you make here up to 300kB size each and there is a file Upload/Download section in the Menu column on the upper left corner of the main page where 5MB files can be uploaded maximum at a time:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads  and see the Pictures folder under the Category Name in the middle of the link.

Thanks,  Gyula

Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: lancaIV on February 08, 2011, 10:58:10 PM
Hello alstream,
do you know about the Shkondin motor and this motor producing company www.ultramotor.com !?

Shkondin motor advantages:
instead 100% energy input-like usual- only 70%  input need and 20% regenerative
braking !

Will the Chobanov-transformer save 75% from the above stated 70% motor input and let work- at first theoretically- the e-bike without range-limit ?

70% Shkondin motor input less 75%(=savings through transformer) = 17,5% less 20% regenerative energy = closed energy cycle

Sincerely
               CdL
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: gyulasun on February 08, 2011, 11:15:16 PM

Hello LancaIV,

Would you mind giving any answer on my post here if you could:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=2222.msg273155#msg273155

Obrigado!

Gyula
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: kEhYo77 on February 12, 2011, 12:28:49 PM
Hi. I think my solution is somewhat along the lines of this thread...
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10223.msg274491#new
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: ChrzaniK on April 02, 2012, 11:45:34 AM
Hallo All.

Could You help me with my new project - not build yet.

Main:
Two coils insteed of 4.
Coils work/suck alternating.
Windings are opposite dir.
One/Two magnets inside the core. Placed in the center of the core, N up, S down ... or reversed.
Thats not a transformer, it may take energy to create flux from magnets, not from coils. Coils should stop generated flux from magnets(change dir. of flux in the core).


Simulator (doesnt work but nice to show):
http://www.falstad.com/circuit/#%24+1+5.0E-6+0.04924642876754098+38+5.0+43%0AT+272+224+352+256+0+4.0+1.0+-0.5263844343644803+-0.2909439476025699+0.999%0Aw+272+256+272+272+0%0Aw+272+272+352+272+0%0Aw+352+272+432+272+0%0Aw+272+272+192+272+0%0Aw+192+272+192+224+0%0Aw+432+272+432+192+0%0Ar+192+224+192+160+0+2.0%0Ad+352+160+320+192+1+0.805904783%0Ad+272+160+304+192+1+0.805904783%0Ad+272+144+304+112+1+0.805904783%0Ad+352+144+320+112+1+0.805904783%0Aw+272+144+272+160+0%0Aw+352+144+352+160+0%0Aw+304+192+320+192+0%0Aw+304+112+320+112+0%0Av+432+192+368+192+0+1+20000.0+12.0+0.0+0.0+0.5%0Aw+352+256+352+272+0%0Aw+304+112+192+112+0%0Aw+192+112+192+160+0%0Aw+272+224+272+160+0%0Aw+352+224+352+160+0%0Aw+368+192+320+192+0%0A (http://www.falstad.com/circuit/#%24+1+5.0E-6+0.04924642876754098+38+5.0+43%0AT+272+224+352+256+0+4.0+1.0+-0.5263844343644803+-0.2909439476025699+0.999%0Aw+272+256+272+272+0%0Aw+272+272+352+272+0%0Aw+352+272+432+272+0%0Aw+272+272+192+272+0%0Aw+192+272+192+224+0%0Aw+432+272+432+192+0%0Ar+192+224+192+160+0+2.0%0Ad+352+160+320+192+1+0.805904783%0Ad+272+160+304+192+1+0.805904783%0Ad+272+144+304+112+1+0.805904783%0Ad+352+144+320+112+1+0.805904783%0Aw+272+144+272+160+0%0Aw+352+144+352+160+0%0Aw+304+192+320+192+0%0Aw+304+112+320+112+0%0Av+432+192+368+192+0+1+20000.0+12.0+0.0+0.0+0.5%0Aw+352+256+352+272+0%0Aw+304+112+192+112+0%0Aw+192+112+192+160+0%0Aw+272+224+272+160+0%0Aw+352+224+352+160+0%0Aw+368+192+320+192+0%0A)

Quastion:
Is that circuit stupid?

Greatings
Michal




Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: ChrzaniK on April 03, 2012, 10:56:25 AM
I make a mistake - diodes should be in one direction insteed of Greatz above.


http://www.falstad.com/circuit/#%24+1+5.0E-6+0.04924642876754098+38+5.0+43%0AT+288+256+368+288+0+4.0+1.0+-0.7196282644964901+-0.08205248381677317+0.999%0Aw+288+288+288+304+0%0Aw+288+304+368+304+0%0Aw+368+304+448+304+0%0Aw+288+304+208+304+0%0Aw+208+304+208+288+0%0Aw+448+304+448+144+0%0Ar+208+288+208+224+0+2.0%0Ad+368+192+336+224+1+0.805904783%0Ad+320+224+288+192+1+0.805904783%0Ad+288+176+320+144+1+0.805904783%0Ad+336+144+368+176+1+0.805904783%0Aw+288+176+288+192+0%0Aw+368+176+368+192+0%0Aw+320+224+336+224+0%0Aw+320+144+336+144+0%0Av+448+144+384+144+0+1+20000.0+12.0+0.0+0.0+0.5%0Aw+368+288+368+304+0%0Aw+320+224+208+224+0%0Aw+288+256+288+192+0%0Aw+368+256+368+192+0%0Aw+384+144+336+144+0%0A (http://www.falstad.com/circuit/#%24+1+5.0E-6+0.04924642876754098+38+5.0+43%0AT+288+256+368+288+0+4.0+1.0+-0.7196282644964901+-0.08205248381677317+0.999%0Aw+288+288+288+304+0%0Aw+288+304+368+304+0%0Aw+368+304+448+304+0%0Aw+288+304+208+304+0%0Aw+208+304+208+288+0%0Aw+448+304+448+144+0%0Ar+208+288+208+224+0+2.0%0Ad+368+192+336+224+1+0.805904783%0Ad+320+224+288+192+1+0.805904783%0Ad+288+176+320+144+1+0.805904783%0Ad+336+144+368+176+1+0.805904783%0Aw+288+176+288+192+0%0Aw+368+176+368+192+0%0Aw+320+224+336+224+0%0Aw+320+144+336+144+0%0Av+448+144+384+144+0+1+20000.0+12.0+0.0+0.0+0.5%0Aw+368+288+368+304+0%0Aw+320+224+208+224+0%0Aw+288+256+288+192+0%0Aw+368+256+368+192+0%0Aw+384+144+336+144+0%0A)

I moved to a new topic:
http://www.overunity.com/12204/q-meg-with-two-coils-teoretical-project/ (http://www.overunity.com/../../../../../../12204/q-meg-with-two-coils-teoretical-project/)

Greatings
Michal
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: kEhYo77 on January 15, 2015, 07:49:57 PM
Here is my take on that magnetic electron pump thingy.



The basics are in the picture. What is not included [/size]are optional "U" core pieces coming out of middlecore section on the sides, Forming BiTT routes for"Cout" CEMF flux.It has to work!What are your thoughts on that?
Title: Re: A truly overunity Transformer / Meg
Post by: MenofFather on April 28, 2017, 09:08:07 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WODqtcASqns