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### Author Topic: Complete information on working SM style device.  (Read 337455 times)

#### tao

• TPU-Elite
• Sr. Member
• Posts: 378
##### Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #285 on: March 29, 2008, 04:01:03 PM »
However, I dont' t understand why you have to calculate the "rise angle"

I think spherics has stated the numerical value of that angle:

... and the other 3 coils (X,Y,Z) will be pointing to wards the center BUT note the three coils will not be in a horizontal plane; they will be pointing 30 degrees upwards

Why would you think that 30? is not the correct and applicable value for the angle between the horizontal plane and the axis of coils X, Y, Z?

It is 30 degrees upwards from the horizontal, for the X Y Z coils, this is shown in my images.

#### Rosphere

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 482
##### Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #286 on: March 29, 2008, 04:27:27 PM »
It is 30 degrees upwards from the horizontal, for the X Y Z coils, this is shown in my images.

tao,

I respectfully disagree.  See my edited post above for verification.

I assume that the basic shape is a 'regular' tetrahedron and that all four coils point towards the centroid.  A 30 degree incline will give you an elongated tetrahedron.  Please open up your CAD file and take some point-to-point measurements.  Do you find any inequities?

#### Rosphere

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 482
##### Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #287 on: March 29, 2008, 04:49:07 PM »
... and the other 3 coils (X,Y,Z) will be pointing to wards the center BUT note the three coils will not be in a horizontal plane; they will be pointing 30 degrees upwards

Why would you think that 30? is not the correct and applicable value for the angle between the horizontal plane and the axis of coils X, Y, Z?

PS: I have once built a pyramid and I know that this 3D geometrical problems can be very daunting.

Yes, those are spherics words.  However, he started his post with four links about 'close packing.'  Close packing yields a 'regular' tetrahedron when connecting all four centers.

So, it appears that there is a discrepancy between the text and the close packing concept.  Until we get some confirmation from spherics, I will base my build upon the close packing angle of 19.5 degrees.  Others may use 30 degrees as explained in the text.

#### omnispace

• Newbie
• Posts: 27
##### Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #288 on: March 29, 2008, 05:01:08 PM »
@aleks

http://www.r-type.org/static/twta.htm

"An anode voltage of 5 kV gives an electron velocity of 4.2 x 10*7 mso*-1. The signal would normally travel at c, the velocity of light (3x10*8 ms*-1), which is much faster than any 'reasonable' electron beam (relativistic effects mean that the electron mass actually increases as its velocity approaches c, so that achieving electron velocities approaching c is a complicated business), If, however, the signal can be slowed down to the same velocity as the electron beam, it is possible to obtain amplification of the signal by virtue of its interaction with the beam. This is usually achieved using the helix electrode, which is simply a spiral of wire around the electron beam...
...
The interaction between the beam and the slow wave takes the form of 'velocity modulation' of the beam (ie some electrons are accelerated and some retarded) forming electron bunches within the beam. The beam current therefore becomes modulated by the RF signal, and the bunches react with the RF fields associated with the slow wave travelling down the helix, resulting in a net transfer of energy from the beam to the signal, and consequent amplification. Since there are no resonant structures involved in this interaction, amplification is obtained over a wide bandwidth."

You can "slow down" a light-speed wave by making it run around in circles instead of a straight line.  This can be done without resonance, although I'm not sure how that will affect it as you approach the resonant frequency.  I believe that spherics' delay coil setup follows the same principles.

#### sparks

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2528
##### Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #289 on: March 29, 2008, 05:30:15 PM »
Can anyone verify how Spheric's design solenoid windings need to be built?   I believe he was talking about
SM's design when alluding to timing coils.
Another thought I had was that if two plates are pulsed with the control pulse and the solenoid windings phase pulsed would this allow for tangential geometric orientation of the solenoid windings.  The collector winding then could be placed inside the dc pulsed plates.  Just a thought to cloud the thread.

#### Bruce_TPU

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 1437
##### Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #290 on: March 29, 2008, 05:32:04 PM »
Hello All,
It is encouraging to see some planning and build preparation going on.  Hats off to Tao and Rosphere and others working on the tetrahedron, while Kames, Eldarion, myself and others work on the "early bailing wire" TPU.

Here is a picture to assist the build of those working on what I will call the Early TPU or ETPU.  Feel free to make any corrections to the picture if you find an error.  In my mind there is only one unknown and I have marked that on the diagram.  Sorry there is no fancy 3D here.  I will leave that to Dr. Snoswell and others more gifted at that than I.

@ Eldarion
Time to awake "THOR" my friend.  I knew that controller would see the light of day again!!  LOL

Cheers all,

Bruce

EDIT:
Go Here to download a much clearer image!
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item24

#### Dansway

• Full Member
• Posts: 186
##### Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #291 on: March 29, 2008, 06:06:36 PM »
Deleted

#### aleks

• Hero Member
• Posts: 601
##### Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #292 on: March 29, 2008, 06:34:52 PM »
@aleks

http://www.r-type.org/static/twta.htm
This is a helix around electron beam (helix around core under voltage). It's not the same thing as iron wire helix with air core discussed here. The air core does not have an "electron beam" to which the signal in the helix may add energy.

#### sparks

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2528
##### Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #293 on: March 29, 2008, 08:12:09 PM »
@omnispace

I believe I described the same principle you describe with the electron beam modulator but instead of a beam I used the term potential energy distribution in the electron cloud of the conductor.  The pulse energy more or less tracing out the conductors electron dynamics.  The electron dynamics being a result of imposed waves.  The pulse energy is therefore modulated according to the waves interacting with the electron cloud created by the conductor valence shell electrons.  The pulse  propogates at near the speed of light through the electron cloud but is modulated by the state of the electron cloud.
The iron reluctance of SM's timing circuit is altering the drift electron's inertial state before the pulse is initiated.  It is responding to ambient magnetic fields and in so doing is creating a voltage.
When the pulse is applied to the parallel circuit the electron cloud configurations (within the two conductors)  will have different inertial responses to the same imposed potential.  The potential energy pulse's magnetic field  propogation will therefore be altered significantly due to the anomaly between the electron cloud dynamics,  within the two parallel circuits.

Edit:   Spheric's design seemingly does not need the differential response as described above, because he stated the comp field response is outside of the solenoids copper.  It is SM's design that needs the timing because his collector is within the solenoid fields.  The ambient potential fields energy wave needs to be received by the surface area of the solenoid coils not it's volume. The electron cloud I mentioned above is the reason for the skin effect in ac circuits.  I am thinking that the solenoid windings should be of flat webbed copper cable as would  be found on grounding conductors used on automobile frames to increase the surface area of the "antennae to mass ratio.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2008, 10:28:37 PM by sparks »

#### omnispace

• Newbie
• Posts: 27
##### Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #294 on: March 29, 2008, 08:44:13 PM »
@aleks and sparks

The electron beam (or electron cloud as described by sparks) is used in the TWIT for modulation and amplification.  But I believe this is completely separate from the slow-wave phenomenon.  That is caused entirely by the geometry of the helix.

However, I do agree with sparks' analysis.  Is an electron beam in a (partial) vacuum any different from a electron current in a wire, other than the resistivity of the different mediums?  Could this be the reason for the dc bias, I wonder.

#### eldarion

• TPU-Elite
• Sr. Member
• Posts: 326
##### Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #295 on: March 30, 2008, 01:18:09 AM »
@ Spherics, all

I am in the process of constructing electronics to drive the 4-coil version shown on the first page, but am a bit concerned about the coils themselves.  How large should they be?  Is there a preferred length/diameter ratio?

If I wind a coil that is 2" long by 1/2" diameter and has 1000 turns on it, that coil should have an inductance of only 2.8mH.  Pumping a 300V square wave through such a coil, even at a high frequency such as 320KHz, is going to dissipate over 10W of power in the top coil alone.

On a more interesting note, the NMR frequency of iron is 323MHz.  Divide that frequency by 90 and you get 3.58MHz (a subharmonic of the iron NMR frequency).  3.58MHz is the frequency of the chrominance signal in an NTSC color TV.  It is interesting to note that the chrominance signal is delayed with a wire or piezo delay line to stay in sync with the B/W portion of the signal.  Seems like SM embedded clues all over the place, but you have to know what he is referring to in order to understand them!

Divide 3.58MHz by 100 and you get 35KHz.  Divide by 15 and you get 240KHz.  Sound familiar?

I wonder if the two frequencies given were the resonant frequencies of the kick coil and the iron delay coil respectively?

Just some thoughts.

@ Bruce,

Yes, Thor may indeed rise from the ashes.  Perhaps it should be renamed Phoenix?

I have a piezo delay line from an old color TV--the delay is 63 microseconds.  I might want to try that instead of the iron coil...

Eldarion

#### poynt99

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 3582
##### Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #296 on: March 30, 2008, 03:31:39 AM »
Which begs these questions:

1. Is iron needed in the design, or just a delay of xx us?
2. If iron is not needed nor used anywhere in the design (but a delay is), then why is the NMR frequency of iron being used?

#### eldarion

• TPU-Elite
• Sr. Member
• Posts: 326
##### Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #297 on: March 30, 2008, 03:39:13 AM »
Which begs these questions:

1. Is iron needed in the design, or just a delay of xx us?
2. If iron is not needed nor used anywhere in the design (but a delay is), then why is the NMR frequency of iron being used?

I have the same questions!

Since Spherics seems to have abandoned us, at least for now (last logon date was several days ago), I am going to halt construction of the test device until he provides some more information.  I have several other projects that need my attention right now!

I did have a chance to test more of the iron-wire-delay version, and the only kicks I can see are of the normal inductive variety.

Spherics, are you coming back?

Eldarion

#### tao

• TPU-Elite
• Sr. Member
• Posts: 378
##### Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #298 on: March 30, 2008, 03:40:56 AM »
Which begs these questions:

1. Is iron needed in the design, or just a delay of xx us?
2. If iron is not needed nor used anywhere in the design (but a delay is), then why is the NMR frequency of iron being used?

From spherics's first post:

"Iron is magnetic because of the geometry and spacing of its atoms (stationary waves remember) which interact with the ether flow in a resonant fashion despite what you may already believe! The NMR is directly linked to this geometric spacing and hence to the resonant frequency of the ether."

#### poynt99

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 3582
##### Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #299 on: March 30, 2008, 03:50:24 AM »
If I interpret what spherics said with your slant on that paragraph, is this what he is saying?

The NMR frequency of iron also happens to be the resonant frequency of the aether, and therein lies the reason we use the NMR frequency of iron, whether iron is used as a delay coil or not.