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Author Topic: Complete information on working SM style device.  (Read 289311 times)

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #660 on: February 21, 2021, 07:55:49 PM »
Had to modify my post above.  something with this site where if you dont put an empty line between lines of text, it will just bunch it all together with no spacing after sentences.Been like this for a while. Dont know why it isnt fixed yet
Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #660 on: February 21, 2021, 07:55:49 PM »

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #661 on: February 21, 2021, 07:58:12 PM »
  Must remember, Steven M. said it was simple. Its just the coils and how they interact with each other. You have to find the potentials, and tune slightly off from each other. Try it with just two sig gens.

An example of where the gain may be coming from...
1 speaker, 1w in, 96db
1 speaker, 2w in, 99db
1 speaker, 4w in, 112db

3db increase for each doubling of power..

1 speaker, 1w in, 96db
2 speaker, 1w in each(2w total), 112db
4 speaker, 1w in each(4w total), 118db

6db increase for each doubling of 'total' power, as long as the number of drivers double also. 

Where did the gain come from? (http://overunity.com/Smileys/default/wink.gif)

1 speaker, 1w total, 96db
2 speaker, 1w total(.5w each), 99db
4 speaker, 1w total(.25w each), 112db

3 db increase for every doubling of number of speakers, while maintaining 1w total input for each case.
Where did the gain come from? (http://overunity.com/Smileys/default/huh.gif) ?? (http://overunity.com/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
 
Below are 100 speakers. lets say they are 96db @1w sensitivity rating. How much db increase would we have after dividing 1w input into all these speakers(.01w each) (http://overunity.com/Smileys/default/huh.gif) ?

Mags

Offline forest

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Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #662 on: February 21, 2021, 08:12:43 PM »
How about two coils, two LC tank circuits producing a beat frequency and then output tank circuit adjusted to this beat frequency. Sure, not a pure SM style device but would that work ?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #662 on: February 21, 2021, 08:12:43 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #663 on: February 21, 2021, 08:53:15 PM »
How about two coils, two LC tank circuits producing a beat frequency and then output tank circuit adjusted to this beat frequency. Sure, not a pure SM style device but would that work ?
kinda what Im getting at.  Keep pumping more power into 1 device will only get you so much out per watt. But as you increase the number of devices, you get a gain higher than just the one high powered device alone. ;)
Not sure about the different phases and a beat freq. Where the peaks meet, wouldnt that be the same as the 2 freq being in phase? In phase where they both peak with each other all the time? Why would it be special if they only peaked here and there? The only thing I can think of is if the say 2 freq were out of phase and only peaked here and there instead of always, would be maybe if the 2 freq were of resonant circuits and the beat that happens here n there do not kill off the resonance?? 

Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #664 on: February 21, 2021, 11:56:40 PM »
Sound pressure level outputs are expressions of energy and measured in watts.  So its not some silly nonsense Im claiming. so lets say we have a transformer with a primary and secondary. Could we improve the efficiency of transfer from primary to secondary by somehow having more primary coils, but keep the same input power as tested in the single primary conditions.  Like I said before, we know there is not a gain by just increasing input power to the single primary of the transformer, or a speaker for that matter. But if we increase the number of divers, or primary input coils, Im thinking there could be an eff increase.

96db spaeker sensitivity rating is about 2% eff. 112db speaker sensitivity rating is 100% eff.  1w electrical energy input = to 1w sound level energy output. By multiplying the driver numbers, the sound output can exceed 100% eff and beyond. So how do we do it via induction? Russian ragdolls?
Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #664 on: February 21, 2021, 11:56:40 PM »
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Offline antijon

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Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #665 on: February 22, 2021, 07:57:00 PM »
Mags, that's what I've been working on, multiple primaries to one secondary. It multiplies the output power (W), just as having many secondaries on one primary divides the power.

I was going to start a thread when I got something looped to work, but who knows when that'll be. I'll just give a synopsis here since you brought up the subject.

It works like eddy currents, just in reverse. Eddies are a good model of what you would get with multiple secondaries on one primary. The latter half of this video is a good demo: https://youtu.be/azsqhKg8hX8 (That's not me BTW)

With 1 plate, the eddies are nearly identical to the input current. The resulting B field of the eddies opposes the B field of the coil, so it levitates. When he breaks it down into 2 plates, the eddy current is now divided by 2. The eddy current in each plate is half as much as if it were just a single plate, so the eddy B field in each plate is also half as much- the coil levitates half as high. When 4 plates are put together, the eddy is divided by 4, so the B field is divided by 4- the coil levitates at 1/4 the initial height.

We all know how eddy currents work, and that laminated cores work better than solid iron bars. This is because the opposing B field is created by the eddy currents themselves, not simply by the inducing B field.

If we try to look at the numbers of what's happening with eddies, just say that we have a transformer with 3 identical coils, 1 as primary with 2 as secondary. All have 1 Ohm resistance.
Say we put 1V on the primary, over 1 Ohm gives 1A, so 1W input
Because the flux is divided by 2, each secondary develops .5A
.5A over 1 Ohm gives .5V per secondary, with a power of .25W
Total power of secondaries combined: .5W

If we run the 2 secondaries in series, we get 1V out, but at .5A, so .5W. If we run the 2 secondaries in parallel, we get 1A output, but only at .5V, so .5W. Either way it's only 50% efficient. Increasing the number of secondaries further divides the output power.

All I'm saying is that with Faraday's laws it's not easy to understand WHY this works, why reducing eddies reduces the opposing B field, even though 100% of power is still being transferred. That's because 1A is still being converted into a B field, and that B field is inducing 1A of current, it's just that 1A is divided into many small currents. And each small current is producing it's own small B field, which is the equivalent of, but not equal to the inducing B field.

Basically, to multiply power just do it in reverse- many small primary coils to one secondary. IMO this is how the Hubbard and other designs work. I could get into how the turns ratios work and things I've figured out, but all this is just theory until I can make a stand alone self-powered generator. Anyways, sorry it's so long, I'm just simple-minded so it's tough to explain.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #666 on: February 23, 2021, 12:15:51 AM »
hey Antijon
Very cool.  What Im contemplating is to have the separate primaries affect the secondary individually, not mixed. Like if we have 2 transformers and each has a 100 turn primary and a 100 turn secondary, but one transformer primary is wound with 16ga and one is wound with 14ga. The sec should react pretty much the same, I think. But if one transformer had say a bifi, 2 parallel windings of 16ag and the other a single 14ag, would there be a difference between a single winding of 16ga vs 2 parallel 16ga?Kinda not thinking so. But if as in the pic I have shown of the multi core transformer, if the outer windings are primary and the middle winding is secondary, it may be more like the speaker analogy, of which I know works out to a gain by adding more drivers at same power in for each case, where we are using more drivers into 1 medium, either the open air for the speakers or a single secondary for the transformer. Ill upload a pdf on the subject that I have put up many times before that may make some sense of what Im getting at.
Can you show what you have done and how you are doing it? Pics?
Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #666 on: February 23, 2021, 12:15:51 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #667 on: February 23, 2021, 05:08:01 AM »
here is the pdf on multicore transformer 'power amplification'.

And Im including one on classical flux analysis that I think should coincide with the first pdf.

Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #668 on: February 23, 2021, 05:15:27 AM »
This is from page 9 of the pdf which I based my 5 core design on.

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #668 on: February 23, 2021, 05:15:27 AM »
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Offline forest

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Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #669 on: February 23, 2021, 09:43:42 AM »
This is from page 9 of the pdf which I based my 5 core design on.

Mags
Looks like loose-coupling maybe this is the secret. Cores can receive  radio waves.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #670 on: February 24, 2021, 01:05:20 AM »
I dont think the drawing was intended to show that much spacing between the core and the windings as as an intended requirement. I think it was just for illustration. The pdf probably would have made a statement as such if necessary.  Took me a bit to get the grasp of what and why till I came up with the 5 core. The pdf says its a strange transformer because as you add more primaries, the secondary increases in voltage. Now looking at my 5 core without even testing it yet, I can understand why. ;)

If we just drive 1 primary of the 5, the secondary will have a particular out voltage.  That 1 primary and its core, have only 1 small portion of the secondary going through the core, mostly affecting or say inducing pretty much just that portion of the coil. So when we add the second primary, it induces the same as the first primary, but, only inducing that section of the secondary that is going through the second core. What ever voltage induced into the secondary by the first primary, the second portion of the secondary is also induced to that same voltage, and they will add in the sec winding. Just like 2 D cells in series.  So, with all five coils being driven, the output should be 5 times the single primary induced output voltage. So if the output of just 1 driven primary is 25v, driving all 5 should be 125v.   

Soo. I used to have a terminal strip on that 5er. Borrowed it for another whatever. So Ill get that together and see if that is what happens. The first2 core example that actually claims no ou, but claims loading the secondary does not kill of a primary resonance. That could be useful I would think. So when I think of how that process happens in the 3 core or even my 5 core, does that advantage still hold even if the second core also has a driven primary? lol  Think about that if you understand any of it...   

lol. if we have 10vac into 1 primary and 10vac out of the secondary, then, if we put 2 primaries in series and apply 10vac, 5vac across each primary, our input current will be reduced significantly.  5 primaries in series, a reduction of input current by 5 times, still 10v in, 10v out
This is a strange one.  Need to revisit this.  And do eff tests.  Do we need only 3 cores and primaries to exceed 100%eff, or 15? With my 5, if my gut is right on this as compared to the speakers, and I do a test of eff with 1 pri, then 2, then 4, similar to the speakers multiply for gain, and if there is an increase in eff, then all that has to be done is to go a higher number of drivers and see how far it goes. This should not be hard.
Mags

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #670 on: February 24, 2021, 01:05:20 AM »
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Offline citfta

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Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #671 on: February 24, 2021, 02:20:49 PM »
Hi Mags,


I haven't commented because I really have nothing to add.  But I have been following closely your posts and ideas.  I am really looking forward to your test results.


Thanks for sharing.
Carroll

Offline antijon

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Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #672 on: February 24, 2021, 06:35:11 PM »
Sorry Mags, don't have any photos. I worked on this years ago then scrapped it when my house flooded. Just getting back into it. Currently I'm putting together 2 E cores side by side, 4 primaries on the outer legs, the secondary shared across the 2 center legs of the E cores, so a 4:1. I'll update with photos when I get it put together.

This is how I imagine generators to work (Sorry for bad drawings lol)
In the 1st image, the rotor is sweeping the stator and the field changes in 4 positions over time.

The 2nd image is my idea of how to replicate the rotor positions, and that's just by using multiple primaries. IMO it's the same whether the primaries are switching on and off in steps, or they're all powered together.

The 3rd image is how I imagine a really real generator to operate. When the rotor is at 90 degrees both the N and S poles are imposed on the stator. I tested this with 2 primaries and 1 secondary, but with a primary driven in series with a cap. to offset the phase. It does produce more EMF on the output, but to me it's the same as just driving 2 primaries in phase, there's output gain regardless.

Offline kolbacict

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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Complete information on working SM style device.
« Reply #674 on: February 25, 2021, 01:47:32 AM »

 

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