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Author Topic: Charge Battery From Capasitor.  (Read 19141 times)

slayer007

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Charge Battery From Capasitor.
« on: March 12, 2008, 09:07:50 PM »
How would I go about charging a 12v battery from a compasitor?
The capasitor has about 150v .
I would think I would need to place a resistor in between the capasitor and battery so it trickled in but I have know idea of the resister size.
If anyone could please help or has a better idea please let me know.
Thank You.

Groundloop

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Re: Charge Battery From Capasitor.
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2008, 09:55:56 PM »
@slayer007,

Attached is a drawing that explains an easy and smart way of doing what you want.
With this circuit you can charge up a battery from a pulsed oscillator etc.

[EDIT] I have updated the drawing.

Groundloop.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2008, 02:11:55 AM by Groundloop »

slayer007

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Re: Charge Battery From Capasitor.
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2008, 11:03:06 PM »
Great Thanks for the quick reply.
Sounds good I'll give it a try thanks agine.

Groundloop

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Re: Charge Battery From Capasitor.
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2008, 11:46:49 PM »
@slayer007,

Some more information about this circuit. You need to use a SCR with a low trigger current threshold because the current through a Neon bulb is very small. The TIC106D is perfect for this job. Another issue is the maximum current the SCR can handle. If you capacitor is to big then you can exceed that current threshold. Read the data sheet for the SRC you select to use. The TIC106D can handle 400V and maximum 5 Amp.

You will be safe if you use a capacitor of 100 - 200 uF. Also never run the circuit without a load (battery etc.) on the output. The capacitor will just charge up to a high voltage maybe exceeding the voltage rating of the capacitor. The result may be a exploded capacitor. If you want a higher voltage then increase the value of the resistor. The attached image is a typical neon bulb(5,5?20mm). Uses approx. 0,3 mA. 56K will give you 110 Volt over the capacitor.  100K will give you 220 Volt. Select a capacitor with the voltage rating that suits your needs. One more issue, if your input is capable of supporting a high current at high voltage then this circuit will not work. This is due to the fact that the SCR will never stop conducting current. If the neon bulb does not blink (is glowing steady) then use a resistor in series with the input plus rail.

Groundloop.

slayer007

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Re: Charge Battery From Capasitor.
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2008, 01:06:27 AM »
Groundloop
On the diagram I'm not really sure how to read the pin layout of the src.
I see they look like a transistor with 3 pins.
But I'm not sure how the diagram would go with pin 1,2 and3.
Thanks for all your help.But I need a little more info of the pin layout and the diagram.

slayer007

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Re: Charge Battery From Capasitor.
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2008, 01:20:38 AM »
I know this probley Is'nt right but I was just woundering something like this.
And where is a good place to find the neon bulbs?
the capasitor I'm using is 350v I would like to discharge it after about 200v.
do you know what size resistor I would need for that?

Groundloop

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Re: Charge Battery From Capasitor.
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2008, 01:27:57 AM »
@slayer007,

You got it 100% wrong.  :D

Attached is a drawing of the SCR as seen from the front (labeled) side.

[EDIT]  Try any online electronic reseller for Neon bulbs. (Use Google).

For the resistor, use one resistor of 10K in series with a trimmer resistor of 100K.
Then just adjust the trimmer resistor for the voltage you want. Use a DVM to measure
the voltage over the capacitor.

[EDIT 2] How big ( in uF ) is your 350 Volt capacitor?

Groundloop.

slayer007

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Re: Charge Battery From Capasitor.
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2008, 01:46:40 AM »
LOL I didnt think I was right.
Now am I on the right course?
And do you know what resistor I would need to have it dump around 200v.
I cant seem to find a good place for them neons eather I seen a couple on ebay but they dont say the voltage for them.
they were NOS GE NE-2 Neon bulbs

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220211286372&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=012

Thanks for all you help ;D

zerotensor

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Re: Charge Battery From Capasitor.
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2008, 01:54:03 AM »
I know this probley Is'nt right but I was just woundering something like this.
And where is a good place to find the neon bulbs?
the capasitor I'm using is 350v I would like to discharge it after about 200v.
do you know what size resistor I would need for that?


You could put multiple neon bulbs in series to raise the voltage threshold.  The bulbs I am familiar with are designed for operation at about 100V, but the tube will start to conduct at around 50V.  If you used bulbs with these characteristics, three or four of them in series should give you switching at about 200V.

The voltage rating on the capacitor is only one part of the equation.  Of equal or greater concern is its capacitance.  Typically, this sort of setup would call for a cap in the hundreds of uF (micro-Farads).  Remember, it's the amps that will fry you.  Voltage is only one part of the equation.

If your goal is simply to charge a battery, pulses at 200V might be overkill.  You can (and should) stay well below the capacitor's rated voltage in practice.  Watch out for sparks around lead-acid batteries, especially old and stressed ones.  Hydrogen gas can escape and cause a nasty acidic explosion.

Tell us,
What is the capacitance of your capacitor?
How do you plan to charge the capacitor?

Groundloop

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Re: Charge Battery From Capasitor.
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2008, 01:55:26 AM »
@slayer007,

Press refresh on your browser. I have updated the drawing. The resistor value will be close to 90K but if you use a trimmer resistor as shown in the drawing then you can adjust for the correct voltage you want. Start with a low value on the trimmer resistor and use a digital volt meter to measure the voltage over the capacitor.

The NE-2 Neon bulbs will work just fine. You can also find Neon Bulbs in coffee cookers and old kitchen ovens for baking etc. Neon bulbs is used in almost all space heaters etc.
Just remember to remove the original resistor if you use a Neon bulb from 220 V equipments.

Groundloop.

Groundloop

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Re: Charge Battery From Capasitor.
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2008, 02:01:05 AM »
@zerotensor,

Using only Neon bulbs in series is a bad advice with this circuit! The current through the bulbs will be to high for the gate on the SCR to survive in the long run. Resistors in series with the bulb will keep the current at a low state and thus protect the SCR.

>Watch out for sparks around lead-acid batteries, especially old and stressed ones.  >Hydrogen gas can escape and cause a nasty acidic explosion.

I agree with that, be carefull with sparks.

Groundloop.

slayer007

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Re: Charge Battery From Capasitor.
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2008, 02:04:22 AM »
The capasitor I am using is 300v not 350v its a 4400 mfd
I have a few I could try the other two are 200v at 220uf Then 400v 120uf
Cool thanks for updating the pic.
And all your help guys.

Groundloop

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Re: Charge Battery From Capasitor.
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2008, 02:08:32 AM »
@slayer007,

Then I will recommend using the 120 uf 400 volt. Better safe than sorry!

What are your input source?

Groundloop.

zerotensor

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Re: Charge Battery From Capasitor.
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2008, 02:09:06 AM »
@zerotensor,

Using only Neon bulbs in series is a bad advice with this circuit! The current through the bulbs will be to high for the gate on the SCR to survive in the long run. Resistors in series with the bulb will keep the current at a low state and thus protect the SCR.

>Watch out for sparks around lead-acid batteries, especially old and stressed ones.  >Hydrogen gas can escape and cause a nasty acidic explosion.

I agree with that, be carefull with sparks.

Groundloop.

Quite right, GL.  I was just about to edit my post but you beat me to it.  I was conflating your circuit with a similar one that I once built, where the current was being dumped through the bulbs themselves.  Gave a pretty sine wave on the scope.

Groundloop

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Re: Charge Battery From Capasitor.
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2008, 02:16:14 AM »
@zerotensor,

Yes I did try something similar. I tried to use a NE-2 bulb as a spark gap.
It worked, but only for a short time because the Neon gas got used up because
of too much current through the bulb.  ;D

Groundloop.