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Author Topic: Water Setup Gravity Wheel?  (Read 5499 times)

Offline Scorpile

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Water Setup Gravity Wheel?
« on: March 14, 2008, 04:56:08 PM »
Does anybody tryed yet a setup like this?

(http://pabo.com.pa/joe/water.jpg)

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Water Setup Gravity Wheel?
« on: March 14, 2008, 04:56:08 PM »

Offline helmut

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Re: Water Setup Gravity Wheel?
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2008, 06:05:08 PM »
@
Thats a Idea
I guess,that the weight is lighter then the water.
On the other hand,the Watercontainer inclusive the weight does not cause a unbalanced wheel.
But give it a try
good luck with the model,that you will produce.

helmut

Offline SeanTheLight

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Re: Water Setup Gravity Wheel?
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2008, 07:05:14 PM »
Buoyancy of the weight will cease to allow for the weight to cause a dropping effect, unless the weight is removed from the water. I dont think its possible to lift the weight to the other area, without that weight then being completely ineffective as a weight. Can you include an air pocket to reduce the buoyancy of the weight when it is at that position only?

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Re: Water Setup Gravity Wheel?
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2008, 07:05:14 PM »
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Offline Scorpile

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Re: Water Setup Gravity Wheel?
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2008, 08:13:05 PM »
I guess,that the weight is lighter then the water.

Not lighter but heavier, i just think the sum of the density of the weight + density of air trapped inside weight should make the magic.

@SeanTheLight

Inducing an airgap will make an inbalance on the bottom part of the water container, and the idea is to maintain the same weight of the water container, both when it's on top, and when is on bottom, but with the imbalance in the opposite created by the floating weight.

Offline SeanTheLight

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Re: Water Setup Gravity Wheel?
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2008, 08:49:00 PM »
Sum density relative to its environment correct?

Air density 100, weight density 300, water density 200.......(for the ease of calculation).

If your ball contains equal portions of weight and air, air inside the ball causes a force up. Weight causes a force down (with same force, relative density remember). A perfectly balanced ball relative to water, would act like a volume of water (with an incredibly high surface tension).

Your suggestion was to make the ball LIGHTER than the water, as proven by the balls ability to float to vertical at 12 and 6 o'clock position.

The automatic displacement along a single direction, caused by buoyancy in this case, will always try to balance itself (and remain balanced). the balance is achieved when weights are at 6 and 12 o'clock. Trying to rotate the wheel out of this position, will cause you to have to lift the volume of water that is going to displace the buoyancy of the hollow object.

Still, I would be very interested in seeing this built, if for no other reason than the "buoyancy in a closed system" experiments possible.

I had a similar idea, where you take a disc that is submerged in water on one side, and not the other (I have a couple of tank designs where is is possible, depending on how well you can seal between the wheel and water.). Since the weight/buoyancy is contained inside a perfectly round disc, friction is minimized overall, and there is minimal "entry penalty". The side that is submerged in liquid, experiences relative buoyancy, the side that is floating in air experiences -relative gravity-   <---

The wheel should always rotate based on relative differences (pressure, as youtube taught me, see my "favorite videos" on my youtube account). The only drawback to this design would be the pumping necessary to keep water out of the air side, as it would slowly fill over time. I just realized we are not limited to using water as our liquid though...there are heavier, high viscosity liquids that would be better for use in this system. Lighter gases than Earth atmosphere also.

Hmm.....

Thanks Scorpile.


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Re: Water Setup Gravity Wheel?
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2008, 08:49:00 PM »
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Offline Scorpile

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Re: Water Setup Gravity Wheel?
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2008, 09:23:23 PM »
Ok... i see... by some reason i had the wrong idea that the air filled weight, could be heavier than the liquid but still float because of density.

How about having the floaters to weight a lot less than water but making them lift the real weight?

(http://pabo.com.pa/joe/water2.jpg)

Offline Scorpile

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Re: Water Setup Gravity Wheel?
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2008, 09:35:05 PM »
Or having the water outside the system?

(http://pabo.com.pa/joe/water3.jpg)

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Re: Water Setup Gravity Wheel?
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2008, 09:35:05 PM »
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Offline SeanTheLight

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Re: Water Setup Gravity Wheel?
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2008, 09:55:46 PM »
That first design looks very promising to me. There is a problem where the relative density of weight vs air, and relative density of container+air vs water, must be calculated as a simple force as long as the outer weight is held rigidly along the direction of the force. I believe this design could work, if the outer weight is attached via some sort of lever, instead of a slot/pushrod as it is drawn here.

The second one would have to be done with 4 arms, to overcome the gate between 5 and 6 o'clock, and I am having trouble visualizing it that way. Reminds me very much of the same design that used ramps instead of water. The problem with those designs, is the force used to lift the weight, comes directly out of the force that is being used to rotate the wheel. If you did not ramp it up until precisely 6:01, and were finished ramping it by 6:00, the wheel should remain imbalanced, since imbalance between 3 and 9 overcomes imbalance (and friction) of 6 and 12. Unfortunatley friction increases dramatically with accelerated ramp rates, so the advantage gained by the sudden movement (much less leverage to work against, closer perpendicular to the force) is offset by increased friction in the ramp effect. Liquid does not suit this design since it will increase friction, and oppose gravity on the down side of the wheel, before the weight reaches 6:00.

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Water Setup Gravity Wheel?
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2008, 04:33:21 AM »
Just one thing to say for you to consider.

 Speed  and Mass Displacement. ::)

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Re: Water Setup Gravity Wheel?
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2008, 04:33:21 AM »
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