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Discussion board help and admin topics => Half Baked Ideas => Topic started by: Formula1 on March 07, 2008, 09:16:44 PM

Title: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: Formula1 on March 07, 2008, 09:16:44 PM
(http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/3050/infiniteenergycreatorut3.gif)

Yes or no?
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: nightlife on March 07, 2008, 11:51:33 PM
That is pretty much the same concept I had in another thread I started. One difference I see is that you are not utilizing the back EMF wich is actually a lot of power you are throwing away.
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: Formula1 on March 08, 2008, 12:09:44 AM
That is pretty much the same concept I had in another thread I started. One difference I see is that you are not utilizing the back EMF wich is actually a lot of power you are throwing away.

I know exactly what you mean!
It could definitly be harnessed... I didn't even think of that...

I was going to make it (The images are pictures I took eith my digicam)
-But somethings stopping me... so I'm posting it up so that other people can make it for me...

hell, I'd give up the patent to get this thing made...
-But I'd rather use the patent for publicity for other things...
--But for some reason I get a bad feeling when I say that....
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: nightlife on March 08, 2008, 12:29:40 AM
I am getting some unbelievable results and I can't wait to get it finished.

 Think about what you have and go back and watch the wind belt video posted in "nightlifes wacked out ideas". I will be adding to that thread later tonight and I think you will be very impressed with what I add to it.
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: nightlife on March 08, 2008, 07:03:31 AM
Formula1 I just bought one of those lights. It is a Super Power forever flash light. It says to shake for one minute and you get up to thirty minutes of light.

 I shook it for one minute and I tested the leads to the LED, it was 3.25volts at .18 amps. I shook it again for two minutes and I got the same results.

 This one has two coils, two rectifiers, I think that?s what they are and it has a capacitor. It also has a rather large neo magnet that is about 1X2 inches. The cylinder is about 1.5X8 inches and the coils are about 3.5 inches long and just fit in to the cylinder. The coils are in the middle with one lead from each going to one side on the board and the other leads going to the other side.

 The wind belt is said to produce 4.5 volts with a much smaller magnet as well as much smaller coils. With the wind belt, only part of the magnet goes inside the coil but the magnet is much more vibrant.

 It would take 2048 of these flashlight set ups to produce 130volts at 10amps. I do not know how many amps the wind belt puts out at 4.5 volts and I cant seem to find any specs on it. I will try and contact someone from that company to see what I can find out. I will also see if I can buy one and have them ship it to me. It may be impossible do to them still waiting on their patent to clear but I will still try.

 But based on what I have seen, the wind belt is much more efficient then the flashlight and I believe it has to do with it's vibrancy. I will try and do some testing with the flashlight to see if I can get better results by splitting the coils and vibrating the magnet in between them. I am thinking that do to the larger magnets and the larger coils, I should get much better results then the wind belt claims it does.
 One thing that I am not sure of is if the circuitry is going to handle any more then it may be rated for or if it will just max out at what it is rated for and I may not get any better results with using their circuitry.

 I will keep you posted with what I find.
 
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: Formula1 on March 10, 2008, 05:04:40 PM
Hm....... no other thoughts?
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: hartiberlin on March 10, 2008, 08:38:53 PM
I recently also bought such a shake-it-up  flashlight in a 1 Euro Store where they did have this as a special offer
and some were already broken and I got these even cheaper and I dissassembled one and was amazed,
that it had 2 button cells batteries in them
and the supposed to be magnet was no magnet, but just a lightly magnetized iron rod.
So somehow this flashlight worked differently by just using the battery voltage
and the iron rod in the coil somehow only modulated the button cell voltage at the coil,
so the AC was rectified and then fed into a cap...

Did not disassemble it further, but I found it strange, that it had these 2 button cell
batteries in them...

So it probably was a cheap ripp-off, cause it still used these button batteries#
when I thought it would contain just a magnet and a coil...

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: Formula1 on March 12, 2008, 06:50:56 AM
I recently also bought such a shake-it-up  flashlight in a 1 Euro Store where they did have this as a special offer
and some were already broken and I got these even cheaper and I dissassembled one and was amazed,
that it had 2 button cells batteries in them
and the supposed to be magnet was no magnet, but just a lightly magnetized iron rod.
So somehow this flashlight worked differently by just using the battery voltage
and the iron rod in the coil somehow only modulated the button cell voltage at the coil,
so the AC was rectified and then fed into a cap...

Did not disassemble it further, but I found it strange, that it had these 2 button cell
batteries in them...

So it probably was a cheap ripp-off, cause it still used these button batteries#
when I thought it would contain just a magnet and a coil...

Regards, Stefan.

Sounds a bit weird... Does it still work an infinite amount?
-Or less overtime?
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: nightlife on March 14, 2008, 05:51:32 AM
I thought I would post you picture here so we can focus on it rather then have it get lost in all my idiotic ideas.

 Have you thought about what to use for the parts such as the pivoting action on the generator? Would it be like a freewheeling hub on a bike?
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: Formula1 on March 14, 2008, 06:40:47 AM
I thought I would post you picture here so we can focus on it rather then have it get lost in all my idiotic ideas.

 Have you thought about what to use for the parts such as the pivoting action on the generator? Would it be like a freewheeling hub on a bike?

To tell you the truth......

Wind up generators (http://www.earthtechproducts.com/p11.html) are the only thing I considered to be the pivoting point...
-The only generator that would work with rotation that I knew while allowing enough freedom in movement so that the magnet at the bottom could be attracted by each magnet

As for the switches... Not sure what I would use....
-I suppose I could rig up a really ghetto one using common switches but  I don't even think that would work
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: nightlife on March 14, 2008, 06:52:57 AM
 Are there wind up generators that wind up in both directions?

 As far as switches, I like the light activated ones because they dont create a drag on the motion of the motor.
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: huhh on March 14, 2008, 07:40:13 AM
So it probably was a cheap ripp-off, cause it still used these button batteries#
when I thought it would contain just a magnet and a coil...

  No.. your not crazy Stefan..lol

  Instead of shake-lights...Be-ware of Fake-lights..

Yup there's some rip-o f f shake flashlights out there !.... I got a shake flash light and it was totally fake.
(1) The coil was connected to nothing...the magnet was no magnet.. just a cylinder piece of metal...one resister, no diodes...
It was nothing more than two round flat batteries ran through a switch to the l.e.d. ....lol

(2) Another light I got that was fake.. Had a hand trigger type lever..which spun a motor inside for charging.
Like this one: http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=241145&image=48837432&images=48837432,48837438,83574396&formats=0,0,0&format=0
and Again.. contained two batteries, ,a resister, a switch , and two l.e.d.'s... no diodes.
Although, This one did actually have the coil connected to the led's which would light up when you gave it a crank.
but of course, contained no rechargeable batteries. nor wired up to even charge a battery...
Actually works good after you add a re-chargeable battery and wire it up.  lol

So both of those flashlights contained two round 3Volt batteries.
Equaling 6volts. which will power the l.e.d. plenty long enough until you loose the flash light.
and the average joe is the none the wiser. and still thinks the cranking and shaking is charging up his flashlight.

Look at your shake light.. I bet it has two round 3v NON rechargeable batteries. They All do!  L-O-L

Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: Formula1 on March 14, 2008, 07:42:17 AM
Are there wind up generators that wind up in both directions?

 As far as switches, I like the light activated ones because they dont create a drag on the motion of the motor.

Yep both directions
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: nightlife on March 14, 2008, 08:09:50 AM
huhh, mine did not have any battery's. It did however have a capacitor.
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: Formula1 on March 14, 2008, 03:29:05 PM
So it probably was a cheap ripp-off, cause it still used these button batteries#
when I thought it would contain just a magnet and a coil...

  No.. your not crazy Stefan..lol

  Instead of shake-lights...Be-ware of Fake-lights..

Yup there's some rip-o f f shake flashlights out there !.... I got a shake flash light and it was totally fake.
(1) The coil was connected to nothing...the magnet was no magnet.. just a cylinder piece of metal...one resister, no diodes...
It was nothing more than two round flat batteries ran through a switch to the l.e.d. ....lol

(2) Another light I got that was fake.. Had a hand trigger type lever..which spun a motor inside for charging.
Like this one: http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=241145&image=48837432&images=48837432,48837438,83574396&formats=0,0,0&format=0
and Again.. contained two batteries, ,a resister, a switch , and two l.e.d.'s... no diodes.
Although, This one did actually have the coil connected to the led's which would light up when you gave it a crank.
but of course, contained no rechargeable batteries. nor wired up to even charge a battery...
Actually works good after you add a re-chargeable battery and wire it up.  lol

So both of those flashlights contained two round 3Volt batteries.
Equaling 6volts. which will power the l.e.d. plenty long enough until you loose the flash light.
and the average joe is the none the wiser. and still thinks the cranking and shaking is charging up his flashlight.

Look at your shake light.. I bet it has two round 3v NON rechargeable batteries. They All do!  L-O-L



Not mine....
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: Paul-R on March 14, 2008, 03:55:13 PM
I recently also bought such a shake-it-up  flashlight in a 1 Euro Store where they did have this as a special offer
and some were already broken and I got these even cheaper and I dissassembled one and was amazed,
that it had 2 button cells batteries in them....
Regards, Stefan.
Yes, I bought one of these. I think they were 2032 battys, and I presumed that they were
rechargeable. The device worked well.
But there was a strange square black component which I could not understand; about
a 0.25 inch cube.
Any idea what it could be? Is it crucial?
Paul.
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: Formula1 on March 14, 2008, 03:59:51 PM
huhh, mine did not have any battery's. It did however have a capacitor.

Thats just for storing the energy your generate....
-Otherwise it would only work while spinning it.....

At least from what I understand
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: hartiberlin on March 14, 2008, 04:05:11 PM

So it probably was a cheap ripp-off, cause it still used these button batteries#
when I thought it would contain just a magnet and a coil...

  No.. your not crazy Stefan..lol

  Instead of shake-lights...Be-ware of Fake-lights..

Yup there's some rip-o f f shake flashlights out there !.... I got a shake flash light and it was totally fake.
(1) The coil was connected to nothing...the magnet was no magnet.. just a cylinder piece of metal...one resister, no diodes...
It was nothing more than two round flat batteries ran through a switch to the l.e.d. ....lol

(2) Another light I got that was fake.. Had a hand trigger type lever..which spun a motor inside for charging.
Like this one: http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages/showimage.aspx?gid=241145&image=48837432&images=48837432,48837438,83574396&formats=0,0,0&format=0
and Again.. contained two batteries, ,a resister, a switch , and two l.e.d.'s... no diodes.
Although, This one did actually have the coil connected to the led's which would light up when you gave it a crank.
but of course, contained no rechargeable batteries. nor wired up to even charge a battery...
Actually works good after you add a re-chargeable battery and wire it up.  lol

So both of those flashlights contained two round 3Volt batteries.
Equaling 6volts. which will power the l.e.d. plenty long enough until you loose the flash light.
and the average joe is the none the wiser. and still thinks the cranking and shaking is charging up his flashlight.

Look at your shake light.. I bet it has two round 3v NON rechargeable batteries. They All do!  L-O-L



Damn,
you are totally right,
mine contained also the 2 pieces of round 3 Volts Lithium button cells.
But I also had a coil and some electronics board in there...

Why do they do this ?
Is it cheaper to produce than using a neodym magnet and some diodes and
a supercap to store the charge ???

I did not use the flashlight much yet, but if there is an emergency and you need
it for longer time to be on, that really would piss me off,
if the batteries will go flat then...

But wait, once I use one on a vacation trip and we had one on for almost one
whole night in a dark room as a nightlight and I already wondered, why it can stay on longer
than 30 minutes, although they are supposed to only have supercaps...
so it is clear these were powered by batteries.
The next morning the light was almost out and with shaking and resting for a few
hours I could recharge a bit the battery cells...

I will look then again for some original shake flashlights to buy..
How can you see from the outside, if these are really the ones,
that have no batteries inside ?
Maybe test them with an external magnet for repulsion of the
internal magnet ?

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: Formula1 on March 14, 2008, 04:06:42 PM
Yes, I bought one of these. I think they were 2032 battys, and I presumed that they were
rechargeable. The device worked well.
But there was a strange square black component which I could not understand; about
a 0.25 inch cube.
Any idea what it could be? Is it crucial?
Paul.

Is it hooked up to the Generator directly?
if so, its most likely the rectifier... since the generators work in both directions, the circuit wouldn't work out in terms of saving the power through a capacitor that usually needs a defnite + and -...
-It will make either current direction have a definite + or -

another way of saying this is, turning AC into DC
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: hartiberlin on March 14, 2008, 04:11:10 PM
Yes, I bought one of these. I think they were 2032 battys, and I presumed that they were
rechargeable. The device worked well.


Hmm, are there any lithium or other button cells out there that are rechargable ?
I though these button cells  are only once usable disposable batteries ( no accumulators) ??!
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: Formula1 on March 14, 2008, 04:18:44 PM
Yes, I bought one of these. I think they were 2032 battys, and I presumed that they were
rechargeable. The device worked well.


Hmm, are there any lithium or other button cells out there that are rechargable ?
I though these button cells  are only once usable disposable batteries ( no accumulators) ??!

Capacitors are meant to be rechargable....
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: hartiberlin on March 14, 2008, 04:38:40 PM
In mine there were cheap lithium button cells, not just  caps.
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: Formula1 on March 14, 2008, 06:36:58 PM
In mine there were cheap lithium button cells, not just  caps.

Oh... no... I'm sorry... I meant to say that Capacitors are a good alternative to batteries that may not be chargable....
-Not that your batteries couldn't be...
--Them batteries sound weird... but potentially better then capacitors since they can hold more electricity and longer...
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: bigfatpothead on March 16, 2008, 02:31:51 AM
When I was a kid, my dad caught me masturbating,
He said "If I could harnes that energy and make electricity, I could be rich"
I wish he was here to see those shake up flashlights...
I know what he would say, " I told ya so!"

Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: ramset on March 16, 2008, 02:45:21 AM
mine either  is that strike three? or a full count  Chet
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: Charlie_V on March 16, 2008, 05:12:37 AM
My brother-in-law bought one of the shake flashlights from Walmart.  It is a rare earth magnet that slides between a coil of thin wire and many turns.  It has 4 diodes and a capacitor.  The entire thing is in clear plastic so you can see all the components.  Its a nice device, I shook it for what seemed to be less than a minute and it stayed on close to 30.  It doesn't use batteries at all.
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: cyclops on March 16, 2008, 03:49:14 PM
Night Star is the original flashlight and works very well as I own one and can attest. It has one coil mag and two repelling mags, coil, bridge rectifier super cap, diode lamp,and switching circuit. The unit is sealed, water proof, claims is unbreakable (have not tried}. Cost around $30.00 US. And yes there are many phonies out there.
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: nightlife on March 16, 2008, 04:06:48 PM
I have taken mine apart and it is just as I said it is. I have not taken the capacitor apart to see if it has any battery's as some claim theirs have. Mine only cost me $15 and it worked better then it was said to be able to. It took over an hour for the capacitor to fully discharge to the point where the light didn't emit any light. I have a video of it with all the parts but I cant get it to load here or on Youtube. I will try and load it again on Youtube.
 I post a link if I can get it to load.
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: nightlife on March 16, 2008, 04:19:55 PM
I was able to list one but it is of pictures and not a video footage. It will not except my video footage becuase it says the format isn't right. I will play with it later becuase it shows what happened when I put them all together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ-GV_XUS-0
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: Formula1 on March 22, 2008, 04:59:36 PM
I was able to list one but it is of pictures and not a video footage. It will not except my video footage becuase it says the format isn't right. I will play with it later becuase it shows what happened when I put them all together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ-GV_XUS-0

I'm really excited to see this work.....
I think it has a lot of potential... good luck!
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: Formula1 on May 10, 2008, 03:05:26 AM
I don't want to repeat this thread...

But I haven't nor has anyone else... I don't think...

ANd I think it has potential......
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: nightlife on May 10, 2008, 04:55:03 AM
Formula1, I did get it to some what work but it did not work as I hoped it would. I need to build different coils to accommodate the action. The coils I used were those that were part of the flashlight and they are spread apart to far.
 I got off in to something else and I haven't had time to get back to it. This project I am working on now is the real deal and I cant wait to get in finished. It's a pulse motor unlike any other I can find. I was going to post my findings but I am not ready yet.
 
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: Formula1 on May 11, 2008, 06:44:05 AM
I wish you luck...
If you mak this happen...
It could bring an end to a lot of problems.............

 :D
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: Koen1 on September 11, 2008, 02:29:03 PM
... yeah, looks like half the companies selling "shakable flashlights"
are not actually selling the version with a magnet in it,
but rather a version where smart use of an inductor coil and shaking action
can extend the battery life significantly.
I recently bought a real magnetic inductor shakeable torch at www.magictorch.nl
which is just a typical "Faraday flashlight" like www.everlifeflashlight.com also
sells them.
A friend of mine claimed he had a much better one that was cheaper too;
but something didn't feel right when I shook that one, and when I pulled out
my neodymium magnet it didn't "feel" any magnetic field in my friends torch...
... so we opened it up, and indeed it did not contain any magnet at all, it
contained something that seems to be an iron rod inside a coil, and two
small lithium batteries. Haha, the joke's on him. :)

Here's a piece of text ripped from www.skinz.org/shake-flashlights/shake-flash-lights.html
which describes the two different types of shakeable torches quite adequately:
Quote

(Type 1) Non-Rechargeable Shake Lights w/Lithium Batteries and LED Bulbs
The Type 1 Shake Lights are actually not rechargeable and run on two lithium batteries.  If you know about lithium batteries, they last for years and are used on such items as lawn sprinklers, smoke alarms and cameras to ensure years of backup power.  But the truth is the shake and rechargeable part of it is false and does not work.  But these are still a great value.  Why? 

Think about a typical flashlight that takes batteries.  Most good flashlights take 4 D-size batteries which have an average price of $8.  If you put these new batteries in a flashlight and turned it on how long would the power last?  2 Hours?  Maybe 3 Hours?  And you are out $8 plus the cost of the flashlight.

Why does this matter?  We conducted a series of tests to determine the average 'light-life" of these lights by leaving them on until they went out.  Each light tested lasted a minimum of 30 hours before they got dim and some even over 40 hours of continuous use!

(Type 2) "As Seen On TV" Rechargeable Shake Lights

Almost impossible to find anymore.

Type 2 shake lights look very similar to Type 1.  These are from the famous "Seen on TV" ads and are not really being sold much today.  These do have magnets and recharging ability, But as you use them the working ability diminishes into nothing and you are left with a inferior product in our opinion.  Every rechargeable cell wears out after repeated use.  So at some point they will not work.  Also, magnets lose their magnetic ability when they are moved around, and rechargeable powered devices lose power when not used.  How many times did you charge something, and if not used in a long time the battery is dead?  Same story here.

Do you want to grab your flashlight and have to shake it for 30 seconds before use?  Imagine you hear a noise in the house.... do you want to make noise shaking a flashlight?  NO!  In a tight spot fixing something?  How can you shake this light?  Seems impractical.

I underlined those two parts to indicate what I believe is a nonsense argument against these true Faraday torches;
That true permanent magnets demagnetise as they are moved around is not per definition true, it is only true for
magnets with internal conductivity and typically untrue for ferrite or other 'ceramic' magnets. Yes, obviously time
decay will effect a magnet like it does any phyical material and over the course of hundreds of years even permanent
magnets will lose magnetism, but certainly not fast enough for your shakeable torch to become useless during your lifetime.
And that rechargeable batteries lose charge over time when they aren't used is true... but the same goes for those non-
rechargeable Lithium batteries they use in the other type... So that is a non-argument.
The last paragraph is complete bull. Do I want to grab a flashlight and shake it for 30 sec before use?
If I never have to buy new batteries for the thing? And as an alternative to rummaging around the house looking for full
batteries or a battery charger which would need an additional 30 minutes to charge my empty batteries? Hell Yeah!
Imagine I hear a noise in the house, do I want to make noise shaking a flashlight? No of course I don't, I'll grab
the baseball bat and switch on the full illumination of my indoor lighting, of course! Or do they believe you can scare
the noisemaker away by sneaking up on him with a flashlight? What crock. In a tight spot fixing something?
Also not the typical situation for using a flashlight, is it? Bad arguments in order to try convince you to buy a product
that is not by far as cool as the original. ;)


Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: Paul-R on September 11, 2008, 03:41:21 PM
I bought a couple of these torches cheaply at a car boot sale. They were fitted
with 2032 batteries which do not recharge at all. What sort of capacitor
circuit should I use instead?
Paul.
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: gyulasun on September 11, 2008, 10:31:14 PM
I bought a couple of these torches cheaply at a car boot sale. They were fitted
with 2032 batteries which do not recharge at all. What sort of capacitor
circuit should I use instead?
Paul.

Hi Paul,

If your torches include the cylinder magnet and coils to be able to induce voltage at all, then I think you have a good chance to build in a schottky diode bridge plus one or two so called supercapacitors.
See this link for explanation and schematics etc: http://www.discovercircuits.com/H-Corner/shake-chgr.htm

To get an insight how much supercapacitors cost I think you may wish to look at Farnell for instance http://www.farnellinone.com/ in your country, then write supercapacitor in the Product Search window at top of that page and study the results. Unfortunately the cheap type supercaps of 5V or 5.5V have got a rather high series inner resistance/impedance (around 30,  75 or 100 Ohms),  though you can consider putting some in parallel to reduce their resultant impedance and increase their capacity for a desired lighting time length. Supercaps of 5V with less than 1 Ohm inner impedance do exist but of course they cost rather more.

Of course you may wish to search for other vendors to find the cheapest supercap source for yourself.

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: Koen1 on September 12, 2008, 04:45:57 PM
Or you may want to use normal capacitors...
After all, I can imagine supercaps being usefull if you really want to
shake your flashlight now but only use the generated energy later,
(since supercaps can act like a battery in that they can store charges
more efficiently than normal capacitors, but act like caps in that they
can 'absorb' and 'release' the charges very fast like capacitors do)
but if you simply want to turn your fake shakeable torch into a true
"Faraday" shakable torch, they are not really necessary.
What you do need is at least one strong permanent magnet that
you'll need to mount inside the coil in such a way that it can slide up
and down inside the coil when you shake it.
And a rectifier per coil.
You could stack several magnets in repulsion and somehow fix them
together, in which case you'd need a coil roughly the same thickness as
one single magnet and as many coils to cover the cylinder in which you
are going to shake the magnet stack. Each coil needs a rectifier (or two
diodes to make a rectifier). More magnets means more "flux lines" being "cut"
every time the magnet stack passes through a coil, resulting in more output.

But the simplest version is just a single coil, a single magnet, a single rectifier,
and a capacitor.
Rechargeable battery could be included to store charges, and that would need
a little more circuitry.
Supercaps could be used instead of the battery or the capacitor+battery.
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: Koen1 on September 12, 2008, 05:34:39 PM
To get back to that first post in this thread;

That was clearly an attempt to design a similar setup, in which
the magnet is cuased to move up and down inside the "collector" coil
by alternately pulsing an electromagnet on either side of it.
Seems to me you'd be expending at least an amount of energy equal
to that produced in the "collector coil" every time you make the magnet
move by pulsing the electromagnet. And most likely quite a bit more.
Also, seems to me the magnet will get stuck at one electromagnet
as it contains an iron core and the permanent magnet will still be attracted
to that when the electromagnet is no longer active, unless you actually
push it away with a pulse of opposite polarity in the electromagnet...
... which obviously will take additional energy.
All in all, seems like an inefficient way to make the magnet move,
and even if that was an efficient way, you're using a coil to
move a magnet through a coil, using current to induce a magnetic
field which moves a magnet which induces a current... You'd be
better off using the feed current directly.
Or at least, that's what it looks like to me. ;)

Nevertheless, if we do away with that suggested mains input,
and if we were to use a slightly different electromagnet arrangement,
we might be able to turn it into something cool. ;)
So let's say we use a sort of "crystal radio" receiver to "leech"
energy from radio waves, but instead of simply using its coil as
a filter and using the amplitude modulation to feed the voice signal
to our speaker or headphones, we simply collect those fluctuations
in charge in a capacitor (with rectifier if needed).
We could have these charges accumulate untill they reach a certain
minimum value, then allow the cap to discharge (using a Zener diode
for example), and use these periodic discharges to for example make
the magnet move. (By feeding this pulse directly into the coil around
the magnet, thus making the magnet jump up)
We don't need two electromagnets on either side of the magnet to make
the magnet move. We only need the coil around the magnet.
We also don't need to pull the magnet back down, we've got gravity doing
that for us. So we only need to give the magnet a good "kick" up,
it will drop down by itself.
And yes, although we might be able to use electrical charge collected
by using a "crystal radio" circuit, the efficiency of the magnet+coil
arrangement will still be far below unity, obviously.

But now, what happens when we use a second magnet at the bottom of
our cylindrical setup (I am assuming here that we have wound the coil(s)
around a cylinder with the magnet inside it, and the cylinder standing on one end),
which is in repulsion to the moving magnet?
It is obvious that the moving magnet will hang suspended in repulsion above
this bottom "stator" magnet. It is also clear that the magnetic field of this "stator"
magnet will have the same field orientation as the coil does when it "kicks" the
moving magnet upward. So during this "kick", the "stator" magnet and the coil
align their fields.
As the current pulse fed to the coil stops, the coils field collapses, and the magnet
no longer experiences a "push" up, and starts to drop down to the bottom of the coil.
During the entire drop, it will induce current in the windings of the coil. Proper use of
rectifiers or diodes should allow for collection of all of that.

We might be able to increase the output by using a stack of magnets in repulsion,
but that would require a slightly different setup. For one, we'd need a number of
"collector coils" to make good use of the multiple field line orientations, and this would
result in a "collector coil" array that cannot be used as the "kicker" coil anymore.
So we'd need to create the desired magnetic field pulse in some other way.
Perhaps putting a coil around, under, or above the "stator" coil  (or a combination of these)
would allow us to produce a similar "kick" if we pulse that coil...
A second objection would be the increased weight of the moving magnet stack,
which would obviously need more input to actually move up the cylinder.
So the higher output would also mean a higher input, and the stacked opposing
magnets would mean the collector coils and the "kicker" coil(s) cannot be the same.
On the other hand, we may be able to use a second "stator" magnet atop the cylinder,
which should be in attraction to the moving magnet, but with a spacer in between so that
even when the moving magnet is closest to this top "stator" magnet and does "feel"
its attraction, the attraction is not strong enough to actually hold the magnet there against
the pull of gravity, and the magnet will drop down. This might reduce the "kick" power
somewhat.

Ok, perhaps I should have posted this in the "Half-baked Ideas" section?? ;)

Well, any reactions, suggestions, or other types of reply are most welcome!!! :D

Kind regards,
Koen
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: ramset on July 05, 2022, 03:58:56 PM
Was sent this today from an FE researcher


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oY-bD7kpbNw (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oY-bD7kpbNw)


All comments welcome
Hopefully some feedback on this actual claimants work?
Testing etc …?
Respectfully
Chet K
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: hartiberlin on July 09, 2022, 05:34:05 PM
Probably too much friction all in all, he also could not show it in his videos, that he reall yachives more output than input...
These are different oscillation systems, as it is dependant from one water column going back and force through All the coupled outputs,
than for example the Rick Friedrich coupled LC coils...where there is really coming more power out as has been put in...as each coil can oascillate on its own frequency...

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Shake-em-up flashlight generator
Post by: AlienGrey on July 14, 2022, 04:15:42 AM
Probably too much friction all in all, he also could not show it in his videos, that he reall yachives more output than input...
These are different oscillation systems, as it is dependant from one water column going back and force through All the coupled outputs,
than for example the Rick Friedrich coupled LC coils...where there is really coming more power out as has been put in...as each coil can oascillate on its own frequency...

Regards, Stefan.
Hi Stefan, oh come on the Rick Fried LC thing is hardly original or compact, if you look here you will see it's a Tesla / Erick Dollard thing if you build it you will see for your self.

Just watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BnCUBKgnnc&t=1608s

Sil