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Hydrogen energy => Electrolysis of H20 and Hydrogen on demand generation => Topic started by: troyd1 on February 23, 2008, 01:21:55 PM
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I was brainstorming and was wondering what would happen if you put hho under pressure. Would you get a tank of liquid hho similar to propane or would it combine into water? Any thoughts? I have ever seen this discussed and thought it might lead to something valuable.
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unless you separated the hho into one tank of hydrogen and one tank of oxygen you would simply have a tank of pressurized water. the hho would recombine back to h2o
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I try to drink at least 8 glasses of liquid HHO a day. ;D
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Hydrogen does not turn to liquid under pressure . The highest pressure tanks I have seen to date is 180,000 psi where hydrogen is still a gas. The only way to get hydrogen into a liquid state is to remove the heat.
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Browns gas, that is, an uncombusted mix of hydrogen and oxygen gas in stoichiometric proportions
has a dieseling pressure of only 400lbs psi at room temperature I think...So stand back.
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Ironhead you said:
Hydrogen does not turn to liquid under pressure . The highest pressure tanks I have seen to date is 180,000 psi where hydrogen is still a gas. The only way to get hydrogen into a liquid state is to remove the heat.
What about the space rockets that use both liquid H2 and O2 as propulsion. I think you will find that compressing a gas causes it to cool anyway - the principle behind the refridgerator!
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you have to compress and pull out the heat at the same time to get Hydrogen to a liquid. -400F somewhere not sure on the exact temp. Compressing alone will not give you these temps. Besides that you can put more hydrogen in a tank compressed than you can in liquid form.
I think a good why to experiment is to use a metal hydride that will absorb the Hydrogen and leave the oxygen behind. A metal hydride can hold up to 800 times its mass in hydrogen saturation
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Browns gas, that is, an uncombusted mix of hydrogen and oxygen gas in stoichiometric proportions
has a dieseling pressure of only 400lbs psi at room temperature I think...So stand back.
Hmmm... Does that mean that you can run a Diesel car on straight HHO, the same way that it will run on Either/Easy Start, without any Diesel in the tank ?. 8)
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Not on straigh HHO your not going to. The combustion rate is too quick. You need to slow the combustion down with something, say water vapor, to prevent blowing the head right off the engine. IC engines are designed for a slow(sorta slow) combustion rate. you want the energy to push the piston down during it's full power stroke this way acceleration is maximized and the stress from the piston skirt absorbing pressure on alternating sides is minimized. If your engine was to withstand the combustion, you would find the power wouldn't be it's capable amount, and the engine would not last long.
Not sure if I worded that in an understandable way, but I think you can get the point from it.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdV9881tMFw&feature=related
what is in the green tank?..just wondering
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Thanks for the info, this is interesting.
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As RA says, the burn rate of hydroxy is extremely fast. Basically it's too explosive and the burn rate needs to be slowed down in order for it to expand at a rate that can push a piston down rather than blowing a hole in it.
That said, I've seen pictures of WWII vehicles running on hydrogen because of the fuel shortage, with masive gas tanks strapped to the roofs. I assume that you can alter the timing and get away with it on some of the more rugged engines for a time - though I doubt the explosive stress created does anything for the engine life!
I would expect older engines to cope with hydroxy much better than modern engines with their much finer tolerances.
IronHead
I don't understand your comment.
How will more compressed gas fit in a tank than in liquid state? Surely liquids by their very nature are denser than gas - afterall liquid is essentially just that - high density gas.
One quite interesting, (actually quite amazing) fact I do know is that due to the compact bonding of the molecules, there is actually more hydrogen in a litre of water than there is in a litre of pure liquid hydrogen! This highlights just how much energy is stored in water. Sounds ridiculous I know, but it's true. Don't take my word for it though - look it up!
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I have just had a brainwave ;D...
If HHO used directly can tear a piston apart, why not use a HHO-BioGas Hybrid !... Basically, use HHO to heat the gassifier. The Bio-Gas would be safe enough to power the engine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYA-Er2zmbE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYA-Er2zmbE)
Or here is a direct link to the full video download, that was sent to me from Knowlege Publications.
http://www.ush2.com/knowledgepublications-dot-com-free-hydrogen-class-video.rm (http://www.ush2.com/knowledgepublications-dot-com-free-hydrogen-class-video.rm)
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I think an HHO/bio engine is a great step in the right direction. I would like to see the move eventually lead to no bio or regular gas at all. Even bio diesel has emissions that are less then desireable, and electric only cars use so much battery that there should be concerns about replacement disposal of batteries. But a car that emits only water? that to me is the ultimate. Along with FD's amazing fact she points out, how can one not lean towards that direction.
Anyways FD, I love that fact. Especially when you consider that not only does that one liter of water have more hydrogen than H in liquid state, but it also carries the nessecary Oxygen to convert it to energy! If we could only find a way to seperate the water molecule, combust it and use that same water again to start the whole process over, then we would really have something amazing.
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Agreed RA
Water, everyones dream fuel. Convenient, abundant, non-polluting, safe to transport and carry.
If we can only encourage it to ionise without the catalyst being power hungry, heavy current we're laughing!
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Does anyone know if a Tesla Turbine can be powered by HHO .
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Could you use dry ice as the cold source to make the conversion?
So you have your generator, it produces and sends the HHO up a tube where the dry ice is sourounding the tip. The presure will build up and convert to a liquid. No? There would be a little more involved but thats the gist of it.
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HHO is profoundly dangerous stuff. People should think twice before trying to drop the temp and pump it up to pressure to liquify. It is far better to generate it as it isd needed.