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Author Topic: Distance between postive and negative in cells  (Read 11453 times)

Offline techartguy

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Re: Distance between postive and negative in cells
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2008, 04:44:56 AM »
Yep, gonna extend the tubes outside the container so I'll go on your advice about using the threaded nuts and or a compression fitting, maybe something like the overflow bulkheads I have on my aquariums, just very small. The outer tubes will be the easier ones to keep in place, the inner will pose issues, hopefully the way they get secured and sealed in the bottom will keep them still enough. I was thinking about using a dc-dc power supply to step down the voltage to at least 3.3v ( the lowest I've found pre-made ) but only has a max rated of 8 amps. Draw is certainly going to be an issue, the batt I have on the bike is a 9 Ah, with the gen being 400W at 5k rpm. Though I converted all the bulbs to led based ones and a pair of hid ballast/bulbs for my headlights. Doing that shaved off 145.7 watts off the stock filament bulb setup so I have a little more breathing room, but not much compared to a car or any other vehicle with a larger supply. So 12.25 amps at 12v or 44.15 amps at 3.3? Either way it seems like alot of draw even if I'm just filling in the gap with something else. I was going to make the bubbler part taller but not so much the cell part. I watched a video on youtube with someone dissipating the finer bubbles floating around in the cell into larger ones that rose to the surface using a pond fogger, http://youtube.com/watch?v=6hVRmVtiprc. I see the owner of this site made a comment about it too on the same vid, haven't looked for the thread or post on it here yet. I have a very small fogger unit I salvaged from one of those frosted table decoration things that change colors. At any rate a good bit of toying around on the bench per your suggestions is needed.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline techartguy

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Re: Distance between postive and negative in cells
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2008, 04:48:41 AM »
Your drawing looks very similar to a fellow testers device named H2OPOWER on this forum. Here is a video of one of his setups. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJPE6d2R9uo



Oh cool, I hadn't seen that one yet. I'll have to look him up on here. Thanks for the link  :)

Offline Mr Green

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Re: Distance between postive and negative in cells
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2008, 05:43:50 PM »
I watched a video on youtube with someone dissipating the finer bubbles floating around in the cell into larger ones that rose to the surface using a pond fogger, http://youtube.com/watch?v=6hVRmVtiprc. I see the owner of this site made a comment about it too on the same vid, haven't looked for the thread or post on it here yet. I have a very small fogger unit I salvaged from one of those frosted table decoration things that change colors. At any rate a good bit of toying around on the bench per your suggestions is needed.

very interesting approach from sirHoax i haven't seen that video . i don't exactly know how the ultrasonic fogger does and how it works. i think what it does is sending a small current but with a specific frequency and practical vibrates the water molecules. But also vibrates the plates (which might be good) i will try to find out if it improves the production or not . i tried with an underwater pump to create a flow that can carry out  the bubbles to the surface but it was the same production.

GoGreen !

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Distance between postive and negative in cells
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2008, 05:43:50 PM »
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Offline techartguy

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Re: Distance between postive and negative in cells
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2008, 06:53:57 PM »
A fogger like that one works by sending a voltage through a piezo element which causes the element to vibrate at a particular frequency thus creating vibrations in the water.

Here's a small excerpt from wikipedia about how a humidifier using an element works, pretty much the same way about pond foggers just with a fan:

"The ultrasonic humidifier, one type of nebulizer (a device that creates a very fine spray), is a popular type of humidifier. It works by vibrating a metal plate at ultrasonic frequencies to nebulize (sometimes incorrectly called "atomize") the water. Because the water is not heated for evaporation, it produces a cool mist. The ultrasonic pressure waves nebulize not only the water but also materials in the water including calcium, other minerals, viruses, fungi, bacteria[21], and other impurities. Illness caused by impurities that reside in a humidifier's reservoir fall under the heading of "Humidifier Fever".

I'll take mine apart to see if that's the case on how it's creating the mist..

Offline HeairBear

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Re: Distance between postive and negative in cells
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2008, 02:33:46 AM »
Mr. Green,

     You made an observation that is interesting. Although you where flowing water through your cell you did not see an increase in bubbles/gas. I am curious as to what you concluded as to why that is. Are you having any problems with bubbles sticking to the electrodes? Have you tried increasing the voltage to 120V or so to see if bubbles would hinder gas production? It's great the way you tested to see how flow effects the cell. Thanx for your info!

I think this thread has created a problem that doesn't exist. The closer the electrodes the better. Do not worry about bubbles and if they might cause less gas. I have never had that problem and I can get them damn close. The problem is heating and amperage. If you can lower either one successfully, you have a winner.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Distance between postive and negative in cells
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2008, 02:33:46 AM »
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Offline Mr Green

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Re: Distance between postive and negative in cells
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2008, 09:39:30 PM »
Hy HeairBear,

yes , i created a water flow in my cell but i didn't see any real changes in my production. Unfortunately  i didn't recorded the test but i will try to replicate it and put it on youtube. I think that bubbles sticking to the electrodes is just an optical illusion because a gas much more lighter than air can't stay underwater for long, altrough i could see some bubbles sticked to the electrodes but on the outer side (which doesn't take part in the electrolysis) .

No i didn't try to increase voltage more than 21 V (because i don't have a bigger power supply) and it was limited somehere around 3 - 4 A

Heathing problem ... i think that if lowering the voltage you will have less heat but amperage can go up.
if you can use a variable power supply why don't you take a single cell with just an andode and a cathode (with let's say 1mm spacing ) and record the production and the current consumption starting from the lowest volts you can deliver and increase at max and see if the production stop increasing and at what level. After you have some results you can do several tests ex:
1 ) increasing and decreasing the gap betwin plates
2 ) put in series or add some neutral plates betwin the poz and neg plates.
3 ) try keeping the best voltage where you have max production and increase the consumption by increasing the concentration of the electrolite.

Do not forget to share the results with us.
Good luck

Go Green !

@ TechArtGuy

thanks for  information and the same think , Do not forget to share the results with us.
the ultrasonic frequency is an amazing idea and it worths to be tried.

Offline techartguy

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Re: Distance between postive and negative in cells
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2008, 10:23:27 PM »
Yes of course. I have some 304 (316 was to pricey for minimum length) stainless being shipped for a small test cell to start with, should arrive next week along with my water pump. Just have to see now...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Distance between postive and negative in cells
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2008, 10:23:27 PM »
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Offline Mr Green

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Re: Distance between postive and negative in cells
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2008, 10:36:27 PM »
it doesent really matter if it is  304 , 304L , 316 or 316L in the experimental stage.

you can check here which is the diffenece betwin these grades..

http://www.aalco.co.uk/literature/pdfs/Aalco_Materials.pdf

good luck


Offline HeairBear

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Re: Distance between postive and negative in cells
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2008, 12:48:38 AM »
Oh, I see.... My bad.

My research in electrolysis has been in the works for some time now. I started here at overunity.com over a year ago but my endeavors go far beyond that. One thing is for certain, no matter how you design a cell or vary the voltage, electrolysis of any type of water will not be much more efficient than Faraday's findings. Gas production is related to current consumption. The more current consumed, the more heat and gas produced. The more voltage used, the more current consumed and the temperature rises much faster. It's a catch22. I went on to replicate Dave Lawton's setup with success. I did not get much more gas and current was really low. However after long runs the water did heat up. Currently I am researching the Avramenko plug for a possible tool to help keep current to a minimum without a huge voltage drop. Stiffler has a video on youtube that I am trying to replicate which I have been unable to so far. I'll hollar real loud when I crack the code. I promise.

If you think your gonna make a successful hydro-booster or water splitter or what ever you call it without learning some electronics, physics, chemistry, history, and especially how an automobile works, you wont get to far. We have tried that already... Even though the solution may be super simple, it's not simple until you have the knowledge and knowing you have it.

Good luck guys.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Distance between postive and negative in cells
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2008, 12:48:38 AM »
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Offline techartguy

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Re: Distance between postive and negative in cells
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2008, 02:58:54 AM »
Yes, It's becoming real evident that there is going to be alot of learning and broadening of skill sets for a project like this. I'll have to see how introducing a flow of water between the tubes in my own cell trials sometime next week or so affects it. If anything I'll put the return line through a small computer radiator w/fan to dissipate heat out of the cell if it presents an issue to the plastic housing's structural integrity. Thanks for the vote of confidence  ;D

Offline HeairBear

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Re: Distance between postive and negative in cells
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2008, 06:37:24 PM »
I apologize for my harsh words. It was my intent to inform anyone trying to make any device to increase fuel economy for an automobile. Many of the questions and solutions mentioned in this thread have already been tested and documented not only in this forum but many others. It takes a bit of effort to sift through it all, but it's there.

At first glance we can see two problems. One being how to make hydrogen efficiently and two, how to use it with our current automobiles. Let's assume we have made a super efficient cell and we need to incorporate into our car which is more than likely governed by a computer and sensors. If by chance your vehicle is older and not computerized, your journey will be much easier and less costly.

It is possible to to modify our cars to get 75-100 MPG with out even using a water fuel cell by leaning out the fuel ratio and vaporizing the fuel.  Some of the problems we run into here is less power and heating issues causing the head/s to warp. This can be alleviated by water injection of some sort for cooling and added power. But now we have a new set of problems and we have to design and build another device to make it work. Do you see where I'm going with this?  What problems will we encounter when we add the cell? Timing, pre-ignition of hydrogen in the intake manifold from heat, tricking a computer to do what you want?

Making Hydroxyl from water efficiently is still an issue to this day but luckily we have hope from certain people such as Stan Meyer, Daniel Dingle, Bob Boyce, and Andrija Puharich. To begin to understand them we have to understand their language which is quite technical and misleading. But, when we compare their circuits to other cheap energy type circuits like Bedini, Tesla, and others, we begin to see the similarities and gain a better understanding of how these devices work.

I will never advise any of you to not test something you want to test, I will only tell you my experiences in hopes of helping you and possibly save you a lot of money and time. I suggest building any cell you can cheaply make and hooking it up to any power you can find. A battery, computer power supply, or maybe a modified alternator will work fine. Sooner or later you going to need a signal generator or Lawton circuit.  Brute force electrolysis just heats up to fast. Unfortunately, even adding a cooling radiator system will only help out so much. The radiator keeps the water from boiling but the heat produced is wasted energy you are paying for to put in.

I am curious though, what are your goals? to save at the gas pump? That was my original goal, but I soon realized it was becoming an expensive hobby. I guess it will stay a hobby till one of us comes forward with a documented working model. And once you do have one, how hard will it be for you to just give it away without any monetary compensation for you hard work. It's hard to say no to a million dollars or more staring you in the face.

Once again I want to say I'm sorry if I offend any one for using poor judgment of my chosen words. I need to learn how to write better. Have a great day!


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Distance between postive and negative in cells
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2008, 06:37:24 PM »
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Offline Mr Green

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Re: Distance between postive and negative in cells
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2008, 02:48:57 AM »
HeairBear my friend ,

you did write a lot and i am struggling to replay to all your doubts ....

1) my goal is to double the mileage - after that point, when your car is running more than 50 % on hydroxy gas you have to think about waste spark and delay the spark with 16 degrees ( 6 degrees after TDC point)
2) yes we can foul the computer , why not ? is electronics , electronics work like the way that we want to work (they are just some values which can be tuned)
3) i think that it is a noble to have such a hobby. All you need to put in are your knowledges and few money. You don't need to go to far in investing money , knowledges and the power to try over and over again are more important. Do not quit , just stop investing money and start investing in knowledges which are here and free of any charge.
Do you know the story about Thomas Edison ? After he was beaten by Graham Bell in the telegraph chase he tried to develop the incandescent electric light bulb after he tried thousants of filaments a journalist came to him for an interview and he ironically asked him if he still gonna try to light a bulb after so many failures . You know what he did replay ? he said : yes you are wright , i had done many tries to light the bulb but their are not faillures , i did discover this way thousants of way in which the light bulb doesn't work.
After he managed to light the bulb the same journalist came to him and he did asked him : Now that you managed to light the bulb what you gonna do with it ? (think that in 1879 there wasn't any electricity) He did ignore the journalist and his limited way of thinking and soon he did come with his grate achievement , what he called "his first model of a complete central power station " So this was the greatest invention , the miracle of millennium. Think about how many people are taking advantage of his invention now ....

so yeah, "Be brave as your fathers before you. Have faith and go forward"  Thomas Alva Edison"   

PS : If i will not touch my goal i will be pleased with all my knowledges gained in phisics , chemistry , mechanics, history , language and many many other...

good luck to everybody and THINK OUTSITDE THE BOX

sincerely yours ,
Mr.Green

 

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