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Author Topic: Tri-Force Magnets - Finally shown to be OU?  (Read 288494 times)

sm0ky2

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Re: Tri-Force Magnets - Finally shown to be not OU?
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2008, 10:34:44 PM »
@ Free Energy

Magnetix, supermags, and a few others do not work as good as GeoMags.
The cheap brands are just 2 magnets, held apart by the plastic piece.

inside a GeoMag you will find a paramagnetic (steel?) rod - that physically connects the magnetic ends. This effectively stretches the opposing lines of flux, and keps them along the outer edges of the Triangle. With the other magnets, the fields less distorted, and the opposing flux arcs outwards, which weakens the device.

I have actually constructed Tri-Force gates out of Neodyium magnets, which work a LOT better than the GeoMags, but i an using GeoMags to keep consistent with everyone else's experiments.

You can use the cheap brands, but if you are unable to achieve some of the effects that others are demonstrating , this is probably "why".

CLaNZeR

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Re: Tri-Force Magnets - Finally shown to be not OU?
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2008, 10:42:02 PM »
im back now and have bought a magnetix kit  :D
fun to play with. see you guys later. i will report asap if i close the loop.

ahhhhhh you should read more.

Most people have been using the GeoMag sets as they have a wire joining the two magnets inside the plastic casing.
Apparently the Magnetix sets do not have this joining wire and not the exact same effect.

In saying that I reckon the effect is still there.

CLaNZeR

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Re: Tri-Force Magnets - Finally shown to be not OU?
« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2008, 10:47:32 PM »
Magnetix, supermags, and a few others do not work as good as GeoMags.
The cheap brands are just 2 magnets, held apart by the plastic piece.

inside a GeoMag you will find a paramagnetic (steel?) rod - that physically connects the magnetic ends. This effectively stretches the opposing lines of flux, and keps them along the outer edges of the Triangle. With the other magnets, the fields less distorted, and the opposing flux arcs outwards, which weakens the device.

I have actually constructed Tri-Force gates out of Neodyium magnets, which work a LOT better than the GeoMags, but i an using GeoMags to keep consistent with everyone else's experiments.

Cross Post LOL I just said the same thing.

But one thing I did find was that the 6mm * 12.7mm N42 neo bars mixed with the Geomag ball bearings were not as good as the weaker Geo Bars.
Again no dought down to balance and length.

The Geomag's are not actually that strong and I have great hopes for finding a off the shelf combination that will give the same effect, but with greater forces as such.

Cheers

Sean.

sm0ky2

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Re: Tri-Force Magnets - Finally shown to be not OU?
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2008, 10:48:37 PM »
About the looped "curve"

When attempting this set-up what i have found is that there is no "linear" force between the start and end of the gate-track.

each area between the gate becomes a "trap". one of which will eventually snag yur roller.

If this is to work, i think we must keep (at least one pair) of gates far enough apart to keep the magnetic distortion effect intact.

meaning that the cummulative field from the gates must be "bulged" at each end, to produce linear force in-between the gates.

Repulsion force IN and OUT of the gate-track is essentially the same, minus im guessing losses from friction and/or your slope angle.   
The force that we seem to be able to extract from lies inbetween the gates. As demonstrated in Clanzer's "firetruck" video - the gate is able to perform work, by moving the firetruck from one end to the other. - that is to say that the roller magnet, can carry more than its own weight.

- on a side note, if you "extract" too much of this energy, the roller does not have enough force to properly exit the gate, so we need to find that max line and stay below it.

sm0ky2

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Re: Tri-Force Magnets - Finally shown to be not OU?
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2008, 10:51:47 PM »

But one thing I did find was that the 6mm * 12.7mm N42 neo bars mixed with the Geomag ball bearings were not as good as the weaker Geo Bars.
Again no dought down to balance and length.

The Geomag's are not actually that strong and I have great hopes for finding a off the shelf combination that will give the same effect, but with greater forces as such.

Cheers

Sean.




hmm, thats interesting i didnt try that.  the ball bearings i used with my neos were somewhat larger (1/2").


specs:   

1/4" neo disks, magnetized through the thickness
    10 of these in a stack to make one 'leg'

1/2" steel ball bearings

--- if there turns out to be a crucial factor in the size of the balls, we can find a proportion that can be scaled to any size / flux density.

FreeEnergy

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Re: Tri-Force Magnets - Finally shown to be not OU?
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2008, 10:57:30 PM »
i can still return it :)

guess i'll do that tomorrow

AquariuZ

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Re: Tri-Force Magnets - Finally shown to be not OU?
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2008, 11:37:14 PM »
@ClaNZeR et al

What I have been trying to tell you guys is that YOU DO NOT NEED to pair the gate in a left right or up down configuration. The roller will move past a single row of triangles!

There is no repellent force when u use single rows of triangles.


On a single line I have placed six triangles (not interconnected with a fourth bar) in NNS config and six triangles in a SSN config on the SAME line.

Now take a roller (magnet with two steel balls) place it in the beginning of the line, and you will see a fierce acceleration to the right (provided you have S down). Decelleration at triangle 7 or 8, complete stop well past triangle 12. Comes back and swiftly accelerates past 12, 11, 10 , 9 , 8 & 7 and starts slowing when nearing 6, 5. Then comes to a complete stop near triangle 1, and swiftly accelerates again in direction of 12 and does so for about 4 minutes...

You do not need to run the roller between two triangles, it will pass a single triangle with less resistance and very fast so.

I wish I had a camera,  :-\

Omnibus

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Re: Tri-Force Magnets - Finally shown to be not OU?
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2008, 11:47:05 PM »
@AqyariuZ,

Can't you use one of these cheap  $5- $6 web cameras ( http://www.geeks.com/products.asp?cat=VID ), use your cellphone or borrow from a friend or a neighbor? It's interesting to see what you've done.

Lakes

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Re: Tri-Force Magnets - Finally shown to be not OU?
« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2008, 11:49:29 PM »
@AquariuZ, no webcam or cameraphone?, flatbed scanner?  :D

Omnibus

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Re: Tri-Force Magnets - Finally shown to be not OU?
« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2008, 11:53:23 PM »
@AquariuZ, no webcam or cameraphone?, flatbed scanner?  :D

Now, flatbed scanner to produce a video is a wee bit stretching it but what do I know ...

Lakes

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Re: Tri-Force Magnets - Finally shown to be not OU?
« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2008, 11:55:13 PM »
@AquariuZ, no webcam or cameraphone?, flatbed scanner?  :D

Now, flatbed scanner to produce a video is a wee bit stretching it but what do I know ...
LoL, I was thinking of a still picture to start off with anyway...  ;D

futuristic

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Re: Tri-Force Magnets - Finally shown to be not OU?
« Reply #41 on: February 24, 2008, 12:38:30 AM »
@CLaNZeR:
I must say your work is truly inspiring.

I was playing today with my tri-gate setup and noticed what we all have noticed. There is repulsion before magnet enters into the "ring" ;) and after it leaves magnetic force is pulling it back.

So I thought "Why not avoid this two spots"?
See here:
(http://www4.slikomat.com/08/0224/gh-nihalo.gif)

This is side look of what I am building now :)
I will release magnet from the top, and the pray that it comes back to the top or even further. ;)

AquariuZ

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Re: Tri-Force Magnets - Finally shown to be not OU?
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2008, 01:45:34 AM »
@Omnibus

Well if Da Vinci had GeoMag it would take him a day to get a working toy. (Dare I say the "P" word?)

It should take the brains in here no more than a week or so then :-)

I will try to make a drawing.

The idea is to make a ramp where the roller follows a fixed path along a single row of triangles, and at maximum speed when passing the last triangle follows the ramp into an 180? turn thus reversing polarity and accelerating again back to where it came from. Will need two layers of triangles spread widely apart with the ramp in the middle.

It?s 01:43 am here and my wife told me if she hears another steel ball rolling on the dining table I can sleep on the couch. Hmm. Who needs sleep anyway.

Let me see what I can find to make a ramp but first I will post a drawing. Microsoft Pain(t) hehe.

I can get a camera tomorrow from a neigbour I guess.

Lakes

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Re: Tri-Force Magnets - Finally shown to be not OU?
« Reply #43 on: February 24, 2008, 02:07:50 AM »

sm0ky2

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Re: Tri-Force Magnets - Finally shown to be not OU?
« Reply #44 on: February 24, 2008, 02:31:40 AM »
@ futuristic

the magnetic field, be it a forced monopole, or bipolar, tripolar.

extends from the steel balls at a vector angle, of the combined magnets.

for instance, if you have 2 magnetic bars at 45-degrees in each direction, the magnetic meridian will be at the vertical



                    :
                    :
                   O
                  /   \

so, bending the magnets away in such a manner will actually create an unwanted "sticky-spot".
i have to admit i had the very same idea, and had to learn why it didnt work, the hard way.
\

@ Aquiriuz
As far as using the Half-Gates,  i think what Omni said earlier about that is the most likely situation. similar to a pendulum, the energy you input when forcing it throuhg the initial repulsion zone, is simply converted from potential<->kenetic energy, as the roller moves back and forth, and is slowly depleted from friction/heat/ect.

Half of a gate creates an additional sticky-spot at the end of the track, whichpulls the magnet back.
this is not present in the full-gate set-up.  (actually it is to a lesser degree, but the energy built up in the middle of the track overcomes this)