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Author Topic: My attempt at making Hydrogen / Browns Gas. Dont try this at home :D.  (Read 6975 times)

Bulbz

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Well... I have done small experiments with hydrogen in the past. I have done the one where you immerse two metal rods into some water, connect it up to a powerpack, and listen for very feint pops when a lighter is held on the waters surface.

Now... I was getting kind of bored with this, so I assembled this apparatus today.   :)... But I wish that I had a video camera handy, because this was fun  :D.

First, I built this.
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.ancell/overunity/hho/electrode.JPG)

Then I immersed it into a glass coffee jar, full of tap water, and connected it to a 12-Volt, 30 Amp-Hour battery that I borrowed from one of my Dad's mobility scooters.

(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.ancell/overunity/hho/battery.JPG)

I held one of those long-reach cooker lighters near the surface, and I was experiencing fairly loud cracking sounds from the bubbles.

After about five minutes of playing with my creation, I remembered reading something about adding salt to the water to increase the conductivity   ;D.

I took my jar to the kitchen sink, and emptied the water from the first experiment. Then I filled it about one third of the way with warm water. Then I thought to myself... I wonder how much salt I'm supposed to use, so I just shovelled in 2 heaped desert spoonfulls of salt into the jar, and put the lid on and gave it a damn good shaking. Then I filled the rest of the jar with cold water and gave the jar another shaking.

Next... I immersed the electrode assembly into the jar, and re-connected the power. To my astonishment, I was getting not just bubbles, but a heavy fizz of them. I thought to myself... I better not waste these nice fizzy bubbles, so I held the lighter near the surface again. The sounds that I was getting were... POP-CRACK-SNAP, now this was getting exiting.

After about twenty-thirty seconds of playing around with this, a manifestation of green gunge, about an inch thick appeared on the surface, and the twisted pair of wires that were carrying the current to the setup suddenly burst into flames  :-[.

Here is a picture of the jar, a bit poor on quality though.

(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stephen.ancell/overunity/hho/jar.JPG)

I appologise for the bad quality of the pictures, and the blurriness is due to the camera shaking, due to me being in fits of laughter and exitement.

[EDIT] Can anybody tell me what the emmission of green gunge was?.[/EDIT]
« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 04:11:50 AM by Bulbz »

hoptoad

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Re: My attempt at making Hydrogen / Browns Gas. Dont try this at home :D.
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2008, 08:07:42 AM »
[EDIT] Can anybody tell me what the emmission of green gunge was?.[/EDIT]
@Bulbz

Possibly, Copper Chloride or Copper Chlorate or even Copper Oxide, if the electrodes are made from copper ?

Be very careful if you use Carbon rods in salt water, because they will facilitate the release of Chlorine Gas which is quite noxious and toxic.
Chemically speaking, salt is Sodium Chloride, and it's reaction with the electrodes accounts for the chlorine content in the green gunge.

 

Bulbz

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Re: My attempt at making Hydrogen / Browns Gas. Dont try this at home :D.
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2008, 01:00:20 PM »
[EDIT] Can anybody tell me what the emmission of green gunge was?.[/EDIT]
@Bulbz

Possibly, Copper Chloride or Copper Chlorate or even Copper Oxide, if the electrodes are made from copper ?

Be very careful if you use Carbon rods in salt water, because they will facilitate the release of Chlorine Gas which is quite noxious and toxic.
Chemically speaking, salt is Sodium Chloride, and it's reaction with the electrodes accounts for the chlorine content in the green gunge.

 


The electrode is made from a 3 inch long piece of mild steel tubing, 3/4 inch inside bore, with a 10 mm threadded bar through the centre. The insulating pegs are made from balsa wood.

hansvonlieven

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Re: My attempt at making Hydrogen / Browns Gas. Dont try this at home :D.
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2008, 07:21:38 PM »
@ Bulbz

Ir is not a good idea to do these experiments with salt water as an electrolyte. Better is sodium hydroxide (caustic soda or lye) potassium carbonate, or even sulfuric acid, vinegar or lemon juice. Caustic soda appears to work best and does not generate toxic fumes as salt water does.

Hans von Lieven

Bulbz

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Re: My attempt at making Hydrogen / Browns Gas. Dont try this at home :D.
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2008, 08:02:49 PM »
Thankyou for the advice Hans.

Bulbz

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Re: My attempt at making Hydrogen / Browns Gas. Dont try this at home :D.
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2008, 08:13:21 PM »
If I was to make an array of electrodes, will it increase the HHO production ?.

I also need to know, does using plain tap-water with more electrodes or higher power produce any toxic fumes ?.

hansvonlieven

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Re: My attempt at making Hydrogen / Browns Gas. Dont try this at home :D.
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2008, 09:23:53 PM »
If I was to make an array of electrodes, will it increase the HHO production ?.

I also need to know, does using plain tap-water with more electrodes or higher power produce any toxic fumes ?.

The larger the surface area of your electrodes the larger the potential HHO production. I say potential, because with large electrodes you need a lot more power.

Plain tap water should not generate toxic fumes, though it is not a good electrolyte, therefore HHO production is less than optimum.

Hans von Lieven

Davetech

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Re: My attempt at making Hydrogen / Browns Gas. Dont try this at home :D.
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2008, 10:57:24 PM »
I would guess that your twisted pair of wires burst into flame because the salt you added to the water made it so conductive that you were passing enough current to heat the wires and melt the insulation allowing the wires to short. When they shorted, there was a huge current draw from the lead-acid battery which probably turned the wires red hot and ignited the melted insulation.

Shorting a lead-acid battery may damage it and result in degraded performance.

When we are experimenting with this type of setup, we normally determine beforehand how much current we want to flow. Then, with an ammeter inserted in the circuit, we slowly add electrolyte to the water until we reach the desired current flow indicated on the ammeter. I concur with Hans' suggestions of better electrolytes than salt.

Since you appear to be new to this, I'll add a little warning. If you manage to construct a cell which puts out a lot of hydrogen and oxygen, which can easily be done with sufficient plate area and ample power supply, especially in a multi cell setup, make sure you have plenty of ventilation for the room. If the gas builds up and you have a short circuit like the one you have had, it can literally blow the room apart. If you happen to be in the room when it happens, it will not be good for your health to say the least. This can be dangerous stuff.

My two cents.


Bulbz

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Re: My attempt at making Hydrogen / Browns Gas. Dont try this at home :D.
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2008, 11:19:41 PM »
So I guess that doing it in my living room was a bad idea then !  :o

Thanks Davetech, I will keep that in mind  8).

hoptoad

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Re: My attempt at making Hydrogen / Browns Gas. Dont try this at home :D.
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2008, 07:31:35 AM »

The electrode is made from a 3 inch long piece of mild steel tubing, 3/4 inch inside bore, with a 10 mm threadded bar through the centre. The insulating pegs are made from balsa wood.........................

So I guess that doing it in my living room was a bad idea then !  :o

Thanks Davetech, I will keep that in mind  8).
In your living room ?!
 :D :D :D :D :D
P.S.
The green gunge is possibly Ferric or Ferrous Chloride produced by your steel electrode and salt