Shouldn't you be able to read the resistance across the bells once they are in water or whatever liquid? Since this works with any liquid and different liquids conduct more or less then the energy consumed would coincide with the conductivity of the liquid. It might not even work on something like salt water. Especially with 220v. It seems the key to how this functions is matching the oscillation of the bells with the frequency of the mains or some octave of it and also control the space between the vibrating bells to create a type of cavitation effect. Maybe similar to how a water hammer works? I think a better shape than a bell would be a cone shape since you could vary the distance between the bells uniformly with 2 of the same exact size and frequency.
(http://www.scene.org/~esa/merlib/sax/12.png)
I wonder if stainless steel bowls bought at a grocery store, & properly spaced, would work?to rasoirs blades (is stainless steel) (shaver) connected to 220volt , with 1 cm space , will cook the water also. This is know since WW2 to soldiers that boils his rasoir water this way.
I wonder if stainless steel bowls bought at a grocery store, & properly spaced, would work?
Hi Pese,
Thanks a lot for your informations. I will test this device ASAP.
You mean this king of razor blades, I guess:
You may also know that, during WW1, these blades were also used as detectors
(diodes) to build radio receivers:
(http://freenrg.info/Pic/DetectRasoir.gif)
See:
http://dspt.club.fr/detecteurs.htm (http://dspt.club.fr/detecteurs.htm)
http://www.carnets-tsf.fr/galene (http://www.carnets-tsf.fr/galene)
In French, sorry.
Best
...........................
Do it in cup of water with 2 wire. (i use this with 60watt blulb (lamp in serie to the 230 volt line (as as
"fuse" . so no problem if the blades will move ant make short cirbuit in the cup..
Looking at the vidios it appears like ther is intense boiling between the two bells. The question is if it acually heats a larger volume of water as fast or faster than a conventional heater. Anyone replicating this thing for a test?
Rickter
The answer is seen in any stringed instrument, or tuning fork. For example, take 2 tuning forks of the same LENGTH and hit just one of them. Put that vibrating one near the other and the second one will start to vibrate also. You can also use a tuning fork of double the frequency and get the same effect. Take a guitar and strike the low E string (top string) without touching the others. Now stop the string you just stuck and listen to the high E (thinnest string) and it will be vibrating also even though it is at twice the frequency of the low E that you struck. Octaves (doubling or halving of the frequency demonstrates this the best. Take a wind chime and another wind chime exactly half the length of the first. Strike the bigger one and then put it near the one half it's length and then stop the big one from vibrating. The smaller one will be vibrating also even though it was never physically touched. All the same principle.
In this heater the electricity (mains) are oscillating at 50Hz. These bells Peter uses can't be 50Hz because they are too small. I guess them to be 800Hz or 1600Hz which are just octaves of 50Hz.
Someone here asked how to tune bells. Just like wind chimes, the smaller the bell the higher the frequency so start with something a little lower frequency than 1600Hz and then grind it down until you get to 1600Hz. If using 60Hz mains then the bells would need to be 1920Hz.
Then these bells will be vibrating in octave relation with the mains and you just need to adjust the distance between the two bells to find the sweet spot where the waves coming off each bell strike the other bell so as to not dampen IT'S vibration.
Same theory as to why you suspend a wind chime from a particular distance from the end so you hold it only on the node of the wave so you don't dampen the wave that is traveling up and down the wind chime.
Or think of it like two children swings but slow it down to visualize it. A swing (pendulum) will have a natural frequency determined by it's length. If you want to use the most minimal energy to continue the swing swinging then you need to push at the same frequency as this natural frequency of the swing.
With the 2 bells vibrating both at 1600Hz (in the case of 50Hz mains) and distanced from each other so the node of the waves strikes the opposite bell at exactly the right time and you make the water very hot very fast :-)
@ NerzhDishua
Hi FatBird, Vaporizer. Interesting. Could you give us any picture?
Attached is a picture. In my opinion, the inside of the Vaporizer Heating Chamber is about the same size as Peter Davey's Heating Chamber. Older Vaporizers had 2 Carbon Rods, but the new ones have 2 small pieces of sheet metal.
A 120 Volt Vaporizer can heat water to boiling in a few seconds, just like Davey's, IMHO. NO WONDER Davey's can heat water in a few seconds connected to 240 Volts.
Comments welcome.
.
The Davey setup is definitely a good design, but we still have no idea of how much energy he is using to create the effect.
We know that Thrapp's setup seems much better, but is a bit more complex in its apparent use of multiple frequencies and a perfect sphere.
Little do many know, but there is another electric setup that I FEEL works better than both of those, and it was made by good old Stan, SM...
If you want me to write up a bit about it, let me know.
You obviously know a lot about this. I will ask some questions maybe you know the answers.
1) According to one of our friends above the small bell is 1 3/8 inch in diameter (3.5cm) and the bigger bell is 1.75inch (4.5cm). If the small bell vibrates at 1600Hz then the bigger one would vibrate at how many Hz.?
2) How the electrical frequency effects them to vibrate is a mystery to me can you explain?
3) If instead of hitting the bells directly with electricity we hit one of them with a stick and repeat this action like in the old door bells
or telephones would the water still heat?
Regards.
I think they are overall the same size. For example a 1" diameter tube 12" long will vibrate the same frequency as a 3/4" tube of 14" length. Understand I'm just estimating here but it's the overall size that matters. From the bells I saw in the pictures, one was smaller in diameter but slightly longer in length so if they are equal in the overall size then the frequency will be the same. If the smaller bell is really smaller then it's possible he is using the next strongest overtone which would be the 5th interval or dominate of the bigger bell. If the smaller bell is really smaller overall then the frequency would be the ratio of 4:3 or about 2133Hz but I really think they are both 1600Hz
The frequency of 50Hz (in the case of New Zealand mains) is audible but a very low frequency. Humans can here to about 30-40Hz. We don't hear the 50Hz because it would have to be connected to something large that would reverberate that frequency to change it from an electric oscillation to an audible oscillation. Similar to how a speaker works. All we need to know is that 50Hz will create a 100Hz, 200Hz, 400Hz, 800Hz, 1600Hz and also at a lower amplitude other harmonics such as 150Hz etc. If we make a bell that naturally vibrates at one of those frequencies then I believe it will vibrate at it's natural frequency. Imagine a pendulum swinging at a rate of 100 swings per minute. If we push it at 50 times a minute we will use very little energy to keep it going. If we try to push at at 51, 60 or any other non resonant interval then there will be a lot of wasted pushing :)
I don't believe vibrating the bells physically at 1600Hz would create the same effect. He calls them sonic heaters so I could be wrong but I think the action of the ac voltage at the correct frequency is what causes the heating.
I must say that this is all speculation but it makes sense to me and what I understand about frequency. I'm a sax player like Peter so at least am coming from the same direction ;-)
I'm getting ready to make one of these and am thinking to use cone shapes instead of bells so as to keep the distance between the 2 bells (cones in my case) more consistent. I'm not sure if a bell rings more easily than a cone so that might make a difference. A cone though would be easier to make and could be made longer and just ground down to the right frequency. Also both cones would be exactly the same size but the inner one would stick out.
@FatBird ,
Thanks for the picture...
I never seen this thing before! :P
Actually, according to Goggle, it also exists in France. :)
According also to few personal experiments -and should I repeat myself -
you can heat water very fast with a 'Davey-like' device but if it is not
well tuned you will also use a lot of amps...
I tried to boil more than 4 liters of water with the 220 Volt alternative grid current
My 16 amps fuses did not appreciate. I could only reach about 76?.
My calculations gave a COP=/= 100%
Anyway - as I told before - a relative of mine, once, stumbled upon a
very strange behavior = the amp consumption was tremendously decreasing after a short while.
But -as far as I am aware of it- he could not manage to reproduce this phenomenon.
BTW: These Davey-like devices are also able to make electrolysis when 'DC fed' and when
the 2 cups are close. (closer than in the picture)
So, IMHO a device worth to be experimented by a good builder/fitter. I'm a poor builder.
(http://freenrg.info/Pic/Davey_Like_Device_1_Small.jpg)
Best
OK, how about his new sphere design?
Did he change to spheric design because it is easier to tune a sphere into resonance?
The article says "So he made his first heater patent based on this observation. This patent was already registered in 1944." Can we find the patent? It would answer many questions.
Read the whole article http://merlib.org/node/5504
Here you can watch (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1527526922275986120&hl=en) a video of his heater in action.
@newage we know very little about this later model so lets concentrate on the earlier one.Maybe we try to look for the patent? The first time he patented this heater in 1944 - see the New Zealand patent number 92.428 dated on 12 December 1944.
According to hearsay, that one is already extraordinary!
@storre thanks for sharing.
Before starting to build a replica make sure that your assumption that both are overall the same size is correct.
There are some photos that can be of use. There is also a drawing which I am sure you know about but I do not know if it is exact.
Someone proposed to look for the patent and he is right.
Also, I am sure you know better then I do as a musician but I still would like to remind you that cone bells are not as good as
spheric bells. This I tell you from experience. Whenever I rang a bell that is cone shaped it did not sound as good or as long as
its spheric counterpart. Maybe I came across bad conic bells :)) Also remember that the holes of the cavity heater (the one with the motor) are not conic. These are just to make you think further.
Speaking of long sounding bells would a Tibetan singing bowl more efficient?
I found this page http://www.totalizm.nazwa.pl/boiler.htm written by a guy who lived in NZ and visited Peter Davey numerous times and took pictures of the heater. Described are details of the device as well as many photos.
You might want to see this one (http://www.totalizm.nazwa.pl/free_energy/boiling_min.jpg) -- instant boiling @ 2.5A -- no conventional heater on Earth can do it!
Also, the sphere, according to him has just protective function, nothing more. Inside is the same semi-spheric design.
The pictures i've seen of Davey's 2 bell heaters has looked like the inner bell is smaller in diameter but sticks out further than the out bell so seems like they would be the same over all mass and the same frequency. The one that is a sphere may be more like Thrapps model with a probe going down the center to set up the primary vibration. The length of the probe (if that is indeed what he is doing in the sphere) might be a certain length also since it follows the same rule as a pendulum, length and period are exactly related and in resonance with the natural frequency of the sphere.
I've thought also that cones would not ring as good and probably why we haven't seen any made out of cones by Peter. I like the more natural shape of a sphere or half sphere so will probably pass on the cone idea.
What cavity heater with motor are you referring to?
The tibetan singing bowls might work but might be to heavy to ring easily. Can they be found in small sizes like peter uses? We could go with the next lower octave so use a bigger bowl and heat the water faster :) Could be at 800Hz but I'm just guessing.
SO where do we go from here? seems like cheap experimenting any ideas? !st would be the.....? Chet
Tuning for resonance between the cups/ bowls will give the distance what is the second tuning? Chet
directional arrays [not dipole[though this maybe what thrapp has in his bowl] use a set distance determined by wave length to aim the energy [focus][increase directional power this distance is a portion of the transmitted wave EM DEVICES [member here] would know alot more than me its been many years but i will look thru my stuff on this Chet PS a parabolic array[in series][microwaves are examples of parabolic transmitters] is not something that is done [but definitely seems one half of thrapps gizmo] also one half of davies device
From the drawings and photos what I can see is that the smaller half sphere sticks further out but it is because it is mounted inside the bigger one 4-5mm outwards. So I believe that the lengths are almost the same. Make further investigations.
I could not find the link for the cavity heater with motor sorry. Just forget about it for the moment.
I think that your guesses on the frequencies could be correct. For the moment the best thing to do is to use about the same sizes and same shapes as the old man it seems like you got the way to adjust the inner one to a certain multiple of 50 (by grinding) but the other adjustment is a bit more tricky as what exactly is the tuning going to be made for?
Do you have an idea on that?
The answer is seen in any stringed instrument, or tuning fork. For example, take 2 tuning forks of the same LENGTH and hit just one of them. Put that vibrating one near the other and the second one will start to vibrate also. You can also use a tuning fork of double the frequency and get the same effect. Take a guitar and strike the low E string (top string) without touching the others. Now stop the string you just stuck and listen to the high E (thinnest string) and it will be vibrating also even though it is at twice the frequency of the low E that you struck. Octaves (doubling or halving of the frequency demonstrates this the best. Take a wind chime and another wind chime exactly half the length of the first. Strike the bigger one and then put it near the one half it's length and then stop the big one from vibrating. The smaller one will be vibrating also even though it was never physically touched. All the same principle.
In this heater the electricity (mains) are oscillating at 50Hz. These bells Peter uses can't be 50Hz because they are too small. I guess them to be 800Hz or 1600Hz which are just octaves of 50Hz.
Someone here asked how to tune bells. Just like wind chimes, the smaller the bell the higher the frequency so start with something a little lower frequency than 1600Hz and then grind it down until you get to 1600Hz. If using 60Hz mains then the bells would need to be 1920Hz.
Then these bells will be vibrating in octave relation with the mains and you just need to adjust the distance between the two bells to find the sweet spot where the waves coming off each bell strike the other bell so as to not dampen IT'S vibration.
Same theory as to why you suspend a wind chime from a particular distance from the end so you hold it only on the node of the wave so you don't dampen the wave that is traveling up and down the wind chime.
Or think of it like two children swings but slow it down to visualize it. A swing (pendulum) will have a natural frequency determined by it's length. If you want to use the most minimal energy to continue the swing swinging then you need to push at the same frequency as this natural frequency of the swing.
With the 2 bells vibrating both at 1600Hz (in the case of 50Hz mains) and distanced from each other so the node of the waves strikes the opposite bell at exactly the right time and you make the water very hot very fast :-)
Ah, I love it when someone actually thinks a problem through instead of making guess work of the situation! Storre is correct, the beat frequency created by two frequencies of similar, but slightly different frequencies would be the most logical way to get ressonance out of such a small apparatus.
One "mystery" solved, now why the need for spacing?
Two possible answers, one the capacitance varies with distance, though I believe this is less likely the correct reason,
the other, that with varying distance, the physical position of peaks and nodes changes, for an example of why this is rather important lets take a look at a property called Thin Film Interference. you will all be familiar with this if you think of the differing colors in soap bubbles or an oil slick on water, both deal with varying distances between two surfaces.
Those in the know with optics will probably know of a property called thin film interference, which is taken advantage of in order make non reflective lenses. The premise is simple, if you have two separate layers, one glass and one your film, and say you want to cancel the blue end of the spectrum at 440nm for the wavelength, you will need to find a film that has the proper thickness to do so. So without going into the whole math of the situation, what you want happening is to have the correct spacing between the top of the film and the top of the glass, if done correctly, you will have the peak of the reflection off of the glass being 180 degrees out of phase with the trough reflecting off of the film, when you do this, you get cancellation, and you see no reflection in the blue end of the spectrum for a particular wavelength of light.
An example can be found easily on the web
http://physics.bu.edu/py106/notes/Thinfilm.html
so what use is this? well, if you were to space it correctly you would have constructive wave interference rather than destructive, you would have peak meet peak, and you would have amplification, and if this amplification occurs at the beat frequency of the bells (In acoustics, a beat is an interference between two sounds of slightly different frequencies, perceived as periodic variations in volume whose rate is the difference between the two frequencies) then you have yourself a water boiling device.
Storre so the bells have a known resonance? then you tune [with the screw ] SWEET!! nice idea Chet PS what is the mains[HTZ] where you live
Well I might be able to give some points out. Most of this stuff I learned from contact with Jan Pajak who had an active contact with Davey.
Anyway the 'inner' dome is indeed smaller. And the spacing is kinda around 4mm between each dome. But that is not so key, since it is different in every system due to the frequency distance tuning. One aspect also it that only ONE dome is actually ?tuned? to 50hz (well not really, since it is a harmonic of 50hz actually) not both. The second dome is more of a 'reflector' for the 'waves' same as the walls in your bathroom. Another thing is that the dome is not tuned to 50 hz but to a harmonic of that 50 hz. This is because it is impossible to realistically make a bell that small that has a self resonance of 50 hz. It has to be so hyper thin that it is highly impractical. I have checked this with a bell making company. I asked them if they could make a 50mm diameter dome bell with a 50hz self resonant frequency. They told me that it ?could be done? but indeed that it then needs be so thin that it can only be made of titanium to give it any strength at all. So in the Davey heater the dome is far above 1000hz probably, but tuned (sanded down) to a matching harmonic of 50hz. And after all that you need to fine tune the distance between each dome while in operation.
Domes can be made by spinning a sheet of metal on the lathe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gwrk0SwDJhI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gwrk0SwDJhI)
Steven
I wonder if it is possible to calculate the exact size of the bell so that it matches the 50Hz?
@ devrimogun:
As you said the tuning of the 2 bells should be easy. I know I can do it by ear because I've done a lot of piano tuning but it could be done using a computer or other device. The other parameter is the distance between the 2 bells. My feeling is that it just needs to be at a distance such that the node of the vibrations coming off the bells hit the opposite bell with the node of the wave. I think though it would be much easier to just mount the upper bell on a post that is a screw and fix a nut on the top bell. This way you could wind up and down the outer bell and change the distance in a very controlled way. Just wind up to increase the distance between the bells and wind down to decrease. Finer thread on the screw would make for finder adjustments. The screw would either have to be non metal or if using a metal post/screw then it would have to be hollow so the inner bell could be attached to another post (could be metal) that fits inside the post. Then just insulate the inner pole that secures to the inner bell from the outer bells post/screw. It should be a tight fit. Then just screw up and down and wait for the sweet spot by testing the speed of the water boiling. Once the water boils instantly then that's the spot.
I personally will try to make or find a teflon screw and drill it open to make it a thick tube basically with threads on the outside. Then the inner bell will be attached permanently to a metal rod that fits tightly in the drilled out teflon screw. The outer bell would have a nut welded to it so it can be screwed up and down to find the right distance. I don't see it as a tuning to get this distance. The only things that are tuned as far as frequency is concerned are the 2 bells. The distance between the bells we can start as a guesstimate using the photos. It appears to be about a 1/4" but I would start close and wind out or the opposite. The right spot will cause instant boiling.
Yes technically but I think it will be more feasible to just make it a little bigger and then grind it down. Should be easy to grind down a small soft metal bell like he is using. I think the frequency needs to be dead on to be the most efficient. Once you make one and grind it down then each subsequent bell you could make a little closer to the final size so you have less adjustments to make.
@storre I really do not think that you should deal with all those details like teflon etc. Remember that if something works it will work in many different ways. We now know almost everything about this device. Just put together the same stuff that Davey did all simple materials screws and washers. BTW I also think that the tuned one is the inner one from what I read at the mentioned sites above.
I also agree with you to try a larger set of bells for larger amounts of water but hey; do you realize what a successful replication of a basic setup means already?
Maybe I can find bell company around here ;)
I'll just ordered my stainless steel spheres. I hope I'll be able to tune them.
You are saying you will tune the bowls or tune the pulsing like hartiberlin suggested?
-----------------------------------
TUNE to what you have as Stephan suggests Or Thrapps device looked stainless? a dipole inside of 2 parabolas tune as Stephan says no hocus pocus just a heat sensor and play with frequency at close to what ever bowl size you chose if this is what is going on [resonance] Stephans idea can make any harmonic give these[Davies ]results Chet
DEV well OK maybe a list of what we know about the original then ? Chet PS ESA where are you?[he knows a bunch about this]
DEV I have seen this guy before seems even creepier now even if hocus pocus is based in some fact I definitely don't want to go there Davies built this 60 yrs ago with bike bells wingnuts and chewing gum if it needs hocus pocus i'm, on a different page its time to resonate @ Stephan could you post a circuit please Chet PS and what you feel required equipment should be on hand ?
DEV OK I looked at polish docs page and saw no breakdown of the build no information of any kind besides illustration and 50 htz did I miss something ? Chet PS I believe in KISS
DEV @Newage what are his bells made from ? Chet
@Devrimogun,
Thanks for your enlightening feeback (and your compliments :P).
Actually, you opened my eyes : trying to build this Peter Davey's device more or
less randomly (as I did) and expecting to stumble upon any 'OU' behavior is
definitely not a good method... Success is here more a question of knowledge than
a question of craftsmanship...
As you stated, these things must be (doubly) tuned.
I have however, all the equipment (even some 'leftovers' of an old home studio) for
testing the cups. My old 1995's demo version of VWave should even be able to do
the trick... http://www.nicolasfournel.com/vwaves.htm (http://www.nicolasfournel.com/vwaves.htm)
BTW: this could be an half baked idea, why not:
- record the device with a sampler (an old AKAI S3000XL, for example? :)
- test the 'wave shape' and if OK
- give the device back his own looped 'wave shape' ?
(http://freenrg.info/Pic/AKAI_S3000xl.jpg)
So, as soon as I'm 're-motivated', I do some more tests.'
Best
NEWAGE your actual pic shows three half spheres also the illustration #1[inside bell] seems to flatten out past the midway point Chet
SO... the mains in NZ is 110 volts 50 htz Davey used 2.5 amps is this all correct? Chet
3 spheres? I only see 2.
Also doesn't matter if it's flatting out. It's just a bell. You could do the same thing with a cylinder and it's already been done in many H2O engines. If it rings, then it will do the trick. I think we are making this much too complicated. Making a bell that rings at 1600Hz is toooo simple! Grinding is tooooo easy! This device doesn't require any electronics! Doesn't require any math! Doesn't require much skill. Anybody that can tune a guitar by ear can make this device with a little trial and error! I love how these things were done in an age where complicated math and theory could not get in your way.
Thanks Borg @ storre why do you think this way [Tubes][pipes] [easy] seems if this was the case it would be done [has it ] Chet ps besides Davey
storre I was just told [EE]that pure sine waves[like the mains] have no harmonics is this possible Chet
I believe it has been done over 100 years ago by people that saw music and electronics intimately related. If you've seen the Peter Davey videos you can see he's done it also. Water does not boil that fast even with 220v. I've tried it and a cup of water using a coiled up wire across to 110v mains takes at least 30 seconds to boil. It's actually pulling 2000W to do that. We have to see electronics and music as the same field of study. They are the same in terms of resonance. I will use the guitar again as an example. Tune the first and last string so that they are EXACTLY in tune with each other. If you strike the lower E string strongly without touching the higher E string and then stop the lower E string from vibrating you will hear the higher E string vibrating even though it was never touched. If you then detune (even a little bit) one of the 2 E strings so they are not in resonance with each other, then the effect stops.
This outer (or inner?) bell has to be tuned exactly to a harmonic of the oscillation of the AC mains. Then the bell will serve as an amplifier to the oscillation of the mains frequency.
The same theory holds true with the example of a soprano singer breaking a china glass by hitting the exact frequency of the glass. Put water on your finger and slide around and around the rim until it rings and then play that frequency on a sound system at a high volume and you can shatter the glass. I also read stories about how Keeley could break a quartz rock into powder with a resonator and how Tesla could vibrate a building to destruct itself using a resonator. They both understood the same thing and then some?
I think someone here will make a working model very soon :)
I have a suggestion, maybe someone can capture the video and try feeding it
through some software that isolates different frequencies.
Maybe we can get the frequency right off the video. IF google video doesn't filter out the frequency.
Otherwise if someone could get to visit this fellow and bring a recorder with them,
maybe they could record the background frequency too.
OK, but why the resonating bell should be smaller. Can't they be of the same size?
You're missing the point. The frequency here is the 50 Hz of the main power line. Davey indeed uses the resonance, but by tunning the inside bell to the frequency he (we) already have for free. Of course, for a US device you need to make a 60 Hz resonating inner bell.
As far the outer bell, I am not sure if it must be tunned too, but the most important thing is to have the same shape and to find (by successive tests) the correct distance between the two bells, so the vibrations emitted by the inner one to reflect into the outer one and return back to it, in phase (i.e. making a stationary wave). This way an avalanche of resonance effect will occur and the energy transfered to water will rise suddenly and huge, with the same small input. This is the beauty of resonance!
Storre how big {physical size full wave} would a 1920 HTZ bell be? do you think it would be close to Thrapps ball {two bells together] ? Chet
@storre
Can you help me with a musician's opinion? Here's what I did: I got a bicycle bell and recorded its sound and analyzed with Audacity. I got 3 peak frequencies.
My idea was to apply one or more of those frequencies back to the bell and see how it behaves (I expected to resonate). Later I realized that it's better to play back its own sound. So I did it using some big speakers at a very high sound volume. But, surprisingly for me, it just didn't do anything at all. I tried with the individual peek frequencies too and also with a close range of vibrations, but still nothing on the bell.
The plan was to get it first to resonate to something at all and later bring it to the desired frequency (50Hz octave).
So, what do you think: maybe it's the speakers that does not generate a proper vibration? Maybe the sound from a true musical instrument is better to make a bell vibrate? Please share your opinion on this.
Thank you.
Storre I was talking the actual total height top to bottom of the wave no harmonics full wave resonance how TALL would that sine wave be in the air[1920 htz]Thanks Chet
Cylinders, bells and really all ringing things make their own harmonics but I've never tried to analyze them in a computer. It's what most people would hear as a timbre in the sound. I've always done it by ear by hearing what would be the root of the harmonic series. Maybe if you record it and post it up here I can listen and tell you what the frequency is. That (I think) is the frequency you want to be at an octave harmonic of your mains frequency. The other harmonics will be in the mains also but I think it's the main vibration we want because it will be the strongest. I could of course be completely wrong since I haven't started to experiment with this yet. :)
hello,
first time poster here.
as a musician, this topic really grabbed my interest. yes, if you tune your guitar properly, your low E string will make your high E string vibrate. it is two octaves higher. the b string will also vibrate and also the A string. this is what makes acoustic instruments sound so beautiful. but there is a couple things to consider:
1. on the guitar, the harmonics get more sharply out of tune as you move down the neck towards the nut. if you tune a piano, which has a much bigger range than piano, you don't tune the octaves exactly. in other words, your A above A 440 is not tuned 880. you tune it a little sharp. and as you work your way up the keyboard each note is tuned a little more sharper than the last. so...do we want the bells tuned exactly one or more octaves up or down or do we tune our bells like a piano? do we need to tune them to each other at all?
2. is 50hz a magic number for water? will 60hz do the same thing here in the states?
thanks,
e
Is 50hz a magic number for water? will 60hz do the same thing here in the states?You must tune to whatever frequency YOUR electricity runs at. Yes, 60 hz.
thanks,
e
As far the outer bell, I am not sure if it must be tunned too, but the most important thing is to have the same shape and to find (by successive tests) the correct distance between the two bells, so the vibrations emitted by the inner one to reflect into the outer one and return back to it, in phase (i.e. making a stationary wave). This way an avalanche of resonance effect will occur and the energy transfered to water will rise suddenly and huge, with the same small input. This is the beauty of resonance!
Edelind
I like the idea of the cone shaped bells
I know that they will not ring as long .........but they may work better over all in spite of not ringing as well
getting the space between the rounded bells right is a very big job .
The mouth of the bells stay the same distance apart, only the distance at the centers changes .
To truly adjust the distance the bells are apart while keeping the distance between the walls the same you would need a new bell made for each test .
Also ..... with round bells you will always be working with harmonics between the different sized bells .
Cone shaped bells could all be tuned to the exact same frequency
I also question if tuning the sound of the bell ringing will help . I don't think it will ring the same under water . It is clear from the videos that it doesn't make an audible ringing sound .
gary
Here's the original patent of the "Elecrtical Immersion Heater": http://archive.beinsa.info/Heating/92428.pdf
It looks quite different than the bysicle bell design and reminds me somehow the Stanley design or a Joe cell.
Yes, I know what you are saying. I am also aware of the fact that changing the distance between two rounded bells will generate different distances between their walls. But I hope that for small distances this effect to be small enough to allow an acceptable quantities of stationary waves. I am still waiting for my stainless steel spheres to start testing (I will cut them in half, not testing with spheres, like in the last Davey video).
Still, I think cone shaped bell it's an interesting idea and may be indeed a step further, along with all the advantages you already mentioned.
Regarding the sound in the movie, I think it's normal that there is none, as the heater is only made to vibrate when inserted into water. And the vibration energy is completelly transformed into heat, so there is nothing to be heard (and even with a speaker, 50Hz is rather difficult to hear and I doubt that a such poor quality video will ever make such sound audible). We only use the sound to calibrate the inner bell.
Also, a final thought, the resonance of the bell is only a matter of its shape and of its internal composition, not of the surrounding medium. The medium will only tell how the vibration propagates (or is used). For example, here the vibration is converted to heat (brownian move), in air it may be heard as a sound, and when placing a finger on it, it will be transfered to the finger. But the bell will still resonate as his own frequency, even poor. And I remember that Davey said that with the heater you can heat ANY type of liquid, so it's obvious that the liquid does not change the resonating frequency of the heater.
@NewAge Thank you for that patent. I'll check it too as soon as possible.
OK, let's move back a little bit. We know only about a bell shaped heater prototype. However now we have the patent and we see a "Joe Cell" type heater. So it is clear that he initially used bells but later on pefected the design with cylindrical tubes, as seen in the patent. Which makes sense, because the uniform tube shape is much easier to tune than a bell.
Now, back in the 40s he did not have much choice but go throuogh trial and error untill geting the tubes in resonance. Today we have computers and all kind of simulation softwares, so something tells me it's wiser to do the maths first and calculate the size and thickness of a device similar to the one on the patent instead of guessing. Anyone capable of doing this?
OK, let's move back a little bit. We know only about a bell shaped heater prototype. However now we have the patent and we see a "Joe Cell" type heater. So it is clear that he initially used bells but later on pefected the design with cylindrical tubes, as seen in the patent. Which makes sense, because the uniform tube shape is much easier to tune than a bell.
Now, back in the 40s he did not have much choice but go throuogh trial and error untill geting the tubes in resonance. Today we have computers and all kind of simulation softwares, so something tells me it's wiser to do the maths first and calculate the size and thickness of a device similar to the one on the patent instead of guessing. Anyone capable of doing this?
Or we can have a race :) Computer against the rest of us ;) Either way we win :) Why in the videos of him laterly where he appears to be in his 90s does he have what seems like the 2 bell design type? Seems doing it with tubes would be easier to construct and tune. Does he have any other patents? Maybe earlier or later designs that would clue us in as to the key to getting it so efficient.
You have not read the patent. He mentions clearly that the tubes are held loosely and vibrate: (page 7) - "circular electrodes concentrically arranged around the central electrode and held loosely in the casing", page 1 - "means for holding the circular electrodes so that they vibrate", page 5 - "electrodes may be separate and retained in place with rubber blocks, the resiliency of the rubber allowing a small movement of oscillation to take place"
I don't think that we can assume what he started with or what he ended up with .
If in the 90s he only had a bell type device handy that is what he would use for a video
If you look at the patent . the tubes are held by there ends .
That is not the way that they would be held if physical resonance was what was doing the work .
For physical resonace the tubes should be held about 1/3 of the way from the ends . ( from my observations )
I do remember reading somewhere that a capacitor made with tubes can have over unity effects .
gary
Or we can have a race :) Computer against the rest of us ;) Either way we win :) Why in the videos of him laterly where he appears to be in his 90s does he have what seems like the 2 bell design type? Seems doing it with tubes would be easier to construct and tune. Does he have any other patents? Maybe earlier or later designs that would clue us in as to the key to getting it so efficient.Anyway, it does not hurt to try the patented one, furthermore he gives some dimentions on page 4.
Anyway, it does not hurt to try the patented one, furthermore he gives some dimentions on page 4.
You're missing the point. The frequency here is the 50 Hz of the main power line. Davey indeed uses the resonance, but by tunning the inside bell to the frequency he (we) already have for free. Of course, for a US device you need to make a 60 Hz resonating inner bell.
As far the outer bell, I am not sure if it must be tunned too, but the most important thing is to have the same shape and to find (by successive tests) the correct distance between the two bells, so the vibrations emitted by the inner one to reflect into the outer one and return back to it, in phase (i.e. making a stationary wave). This way an avalanche of resonance effect will occur and the energy transfered to water will rise suddenly and huge, with the same small input. This is the beauty of resonance!
Hello I am back from Paris. Unfortunately I was not able to meet our friend NerzhDishual. His message arrived too late.If there is a succesfull replication of a spherical design, yes, we should try first with it. However there's something strange : I could not find ANY other patent under the name of Peted Davey even though I called up the patent office in NZ. So how come he perfected the bell design, and is been trying to put it in production for 50 years but did not patened it???
Normally patent rules are clear. Everything should be explained so that someone in the field should be able to
produce the product just by following the patent. Nevertheless, depending on how the patent owner or the lawyer is witty
you can still hide the ropes.
I say we stay with the spherical bells as we have the video, the drawing, some explanations, a successful test made by NerzhDishual and some very good elaborations and implications made by all of us. Also some are waiting for their spherical bells to arrive.
In case we get stuck we then go back to the patent.
If there is a succesfull replication of a spherical design, yes, we should try first with it. However there's something strange : I could not find ANY other patent under the name of Peted Davey even though I called up the patent office in NZ. So how come he perfected the bell design, and is been trying to put it in production for 50 years but did not patened it???
As our ancestors knew, everything is based on resonance in this Universe and works by getting energy from it when resonating. Following this theories, the human being is the most advanced OU device (when he resonates at his peeks, huge quantities of energy is drawn from the Universe into the inner being, making miracles possible). Anyway, my point is that all of those traditional (meaning old and proved) theories mostly use octave harmonic for getting resonance outside the base frequency. Maybe this is just the way things work. See some complex theory regarding octave harmonic, the law of 7 and the music at Gurdjieff.
hi Devr , i think most of the people here that have all the good clues and stuff like a lab to test it in are busy looking for * over unity* and some crap little *thing* that boils water just dont matter,
Is that your opinion as well? What is your favorite topic?
My interest comes from how simple this thing is. We must
start from the simplest and build our experience from there
by taking baby steps.
]in the news video, Davey admits he's holding something backThere is a strong possibility that this simple heating toy is a key to Stan Mayer super-efficient electrolizer.
what? he using radioactive bicycle bells?! ;)
no, i don't think it matters if he uses bells or his dog's food tins - the important feature is that they're LOOSE (see how many times its mentioned in the Patent)
.....
however, having seen all the evidence (the patent, the various accounts Davey has given to different people, his claim to have purposefully witheld some info in his accounts, etc) i think Davey either believes in his own mind - or wants the public to believe (because, at 92, he's still hoping someone will buy into his invention) - that by acoustically tuning one of the 'bells' (and it's made clear in accounts that it's only one) to the mains freq. then this is an important part of the device's operation.....
..... In 1998 I returned to New Zealand from my bread-seeking globetrotting. Of course, each time I managed to visit Christchurch I attempted to also contact Mr Davey. But in the place where his home stood previously, I found only a large pile of broken wooden planks mixed with broken bricks. It looked as if several heavy tanks rolled through his home. In turn no even a trace of him. I also was unable to locate anyone, who would know what actually happened to him. In turn after 1999, as I explained this in subsection A4 of monograph [1/4], it has not been in my fate to let me go to Christchurch again. By now the Davey's telekinetic heater is completely forgotten in New Zealand. It was no any help to it, that the energy efficiency of this heater was proven at the miraculous level of many times above 100%. In turn the fate of the inventor himself remains unknown to me – if anyone out there is aware what happened to him, please let me know. When I talked to Mr Davey the last time, I promised him to publish the description of his heater and the story of his lifetime battles, so that perhaps someone else picks up his fight and puts this miraculous heater into mass production. In this way his almost 50 years of suffering and his brilliant invention would not be wasted, and would start to work for the good of our civilisation. This web page is my fulfilment of that old promise.
hi Sprocket- well, I seem to have got things badly mixed up, chronologically speaking - I presumed this was the most up-to-date info! :D
so i guess you haven't watched the more recent NZ news video where they visited him in his home and he demonstrated his handheld 'boiler'? or read the web copy of the NZ paper article with recent photos of him, aged 92?
i seem to remember reading he was born 1916 - if so, that would place the NZ paper article this year
i also seem to remember reading a 'follow-up' to those accounts you've just quoted where the Polish gentleman explained that 'Powers of Evil' had since then travelled back in time and rebuilt Davey's house
i don't know what they drink in Poland but i'm going to get myself a couple of bottles for New Year!
be well, friends
sandy
Has anyone made any progress on this yet? I'm eager to try it, but I don't know where I could get bells that resonate at 60hz. I was thinking of visiting this bicycle shop near by because they might sell bicycle bells like what Peter Davey himself used, but once I'm there how do I determine the resonance frequency of the bells?
If this thing gets completed, then what are these good for, besides boiling water? Do you intend to use them to replace your water heater, or power things with a steam turbine?
that small outer bell is there to deflect the steam & water back down into the glass/cup & give some protection to the user - it doesn't need to go under the surface of the water (see the 'Twister' photo above), in fact, as a vent it SHOULDN'T go under the water
The octave (50Hz, 100Hz, 200, 400, 800, 1600) I think are the strongest resonant relationships but you also have the minor 3rd and 5th overtones that are strong.
@nul-points
Also notice that the boiling actually starts when the top bell hits the water. So that's an electrode too ;)
@edelind:
Looking at your spectrum analyzer I would say your mains are 50Hz? Is that right?
I think that according to video and article that outside spherical metalic cover must be connected to Earth ground for safety. I'm not electrical engineer and I would like to know how then it's possible it to work if inside are two Ac electrodes. Doesn't it generates a shortcircuit with Earth ground ?
Congratulations all. Especially nul-point there. What a careful detective work over the material
thats out there! You must be Lady Sherlock.
LOL@ Lady Sherlock
dayum, does that mean i need to start shaving my legs?!?
(nul-points = ugly, 6'2", 205lbs / 1.88m 93kilo, ex-rugby player!) ;D
Hi nul-points,
First : where did you got any pictures of Davey heater without spherical casing ? I cannot find any , except some very suspicious article on kellyNet based on work of even more suspicious Polish (unfortunately) proffesor (?) (I have nothing against him but all his articles even if very interesting are in fact used to promote his extravagant theory.I would not trust them in details)
Regards
Boguslaw
Sorry Nul. I thought Sandy would be a woman's name. You know - Grease for example.
"Saandy can't you see, I'm in misery. We made a start now we're apart there's nothing left for me......."
Anyway, next generation Sherlock then. Hows that?
ND has a major error in his assembly. Davey's has a curved handle and he boils his water using
his hand to put the device inside. The reason is probably to let the cups vibrate more efficiently.
His cups is nothing like Davey's cups and still 1.1COP? (Although fuse blows very soon).
ND will get there as soon as someone sends him bells of the size that is mentioned in the detailed
construction document :) and a handle :)
i agree that there is likely a whole area of freedom in replicating this device & any associated anomalies - i think ND has made a good start - as you say, COPs +/- 1.0 are very impressive for early tests!
"...tell me more, tell me more, tell me more" (sorry - a little musical joke there) ;)
hi Dev
> "Here is my persuasive question : "Do you have any chances at all to get a COP of around
1 with your anomaly in your first try?"
i'm currently seeing measured (Load Output Energy)/(Total Input Energy) ratios >= 1.1 and (Load + Control Energy)/(Total Input Energy) ratios >= 1.2 on the anomalies i'm investigating
my website below has details
what can you offer on Davey's heater? ;)
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
OK. I FOUND SOMETHING WHICH LOOKS LIKEWISE ! :o
http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=ioe_Y56pHng&feature=related
OK. I FOUND SOMETHING WHICH LOOKS LIKEWISE ! :o
http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=ioe_Y56pHng&feature=related
this looks good, i wonder ... if it could be done with a car battery. :o
Hi Sandy,at the moment, Dev, i don't know exactly where in the circuit, or why, the anomalies are happening - i'm thinking it's something to do with the pulsed DC charge-switching (H Aspden has predicted OU behaviour of capacitors gaining excess energy from induced 'aether' spin)
Do those little capacitors really work?
I am just writing this little note to make my amazement public.
COP>1 all over the place! Maybe the time has come I don't know.
But in Davey's place we also offer prolonged life the comes with drinking coffee out of Davey's boilers ;P
You are right! We should all get off our lazy ...ses and replicate the thing as close as we could.
I do not think that the spherical casing is anything but an attempt to hide what's inside
from curious eyes like ours. The device is simple! Look at ND there getting 1.1COP with
a setup that hardly resembles Davey's thing.
I mentioned before : If something works it works in many different shapes and ways.
For the moment I propose to assemble something that looks exactly like the device
in the document chapter14.pdf.
Storre you were going to assemble one. What happened to you?
Grinding tooooo easy remember?
I'm still here and reading all the new information :) I live in a very remote location so even getting metal is a slow process. I found a friend that works at a machine shop and on his spare time he is going to help me get and possibly shape the materials like the bells. Wish I lived closer to civilization to take a more active part in this work but then again I wouldn't want to deal with the rest that goes on with tightly packed groups of people stressing out to survive ;)
Regarding the recent postings and also the you tube video where he keeps saying on off on off. Of course we don't know what the temp was before he said on ;) I have a brute force boiler here that I yanked from an electric shower head and it will do the same thing and I'm only use 126v and neutral.
The vibrating electrodes seems a very possible solution but I will try it first with them fixed and spend most of my time adjusting the distance between the 2 bells which is what I think is critical.
About the spherical casing. I did see pictures with just 2 bells but I think at one point he needed to add a safety ground so put a grounded sphere AROUND the 2 bells. Since we can't see what is inside the spherical housing then we can't assume it's only one bell inside.
I hope my stainless steel and brass arrives soon so I can take a more active part in this work :)
He also notes that in his opinion his setup uses the same amount of energy to heat the water as a kettle, which is not what we want to hear - though to get practically instantaneous boiling like we see would take serious current imo, more than is 'apparently' being used...
hi DOCV
...listen carefully because i'm only going to say this once....
SELL EVERYTHING YOU OWN & BUY SHARES IN YOUR KETTLE MANUFACTURER RIGHT NOW!!!! ;D
...seriously, now, i think perhaps your current reading is wrong - 0.785KW seems a very low-powered kettle (mine is rated at approx. 2KW at 240V, so it would draw about 8.3A)
all the best
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
Hi guys,
I believe that this bell shaped things dived into water and 220 Volts AC wired
have a very strange behavior.
Why, when put on the water this way:
(http://freenrg.info/Sonettes_Davey/Dispo_2.gif)
my 10 amps fuse blow out (in about 20-30 seconds) and do not blow out when put this way:
(http://freenrg.info/Sonettes_Davey/Dispo_1.gif)
BTW : the COP is statistically the same.....
4) ...the way the cups are inverted in his heater should tell the intelligent engineer that there is heat transfer occurring between the heated bubbles and the metal spheres ...
I'm taking a break from the TPU research (just for tonight :) ) and read this whole thread.http://archive.beinsa.info/Heating/Peter%20Davey/92428.pdf
Here's some comments.
1) The patent link does not work for me (file not found), can somebody repost it, or upload the file?
Sandy I looked at the results NerzhDishuals obtained, very good work there...
...I think I'm going to leave this technology alone for now, seems to be nothing magical. It's our ignorance that makes us think it's special, but I bet a thermo engineer would set us straight...
I'm taking a break from the TPU research (just for tonight :) ) and read this whole thread.
Personal Opinion:
1) The main heating energy comes from electricity, however, sonic and convection flows play an important role as follows:
I'll check back periodically....
EM
P.S. I just finished reading the whole patent, and I'm dissipointed that he doesn't address the benefits of electrode vibration. He does not say anything about proper tuning for a certian note or anything of that nature, so it appears his technology is just rapid heating based on electrical contact with a conductive liquid, and of course this is special since if there is no water, there is no danger of overheating, unlike coil based systems that continue to generate heat and if no cooling occurs the tempeture is driven too high and fires or meldown can occur. I think I'm going to leave this technology alone for now, seems to be nothing magical. It's our ignorance that makes us think it's special, but I bet a thermo engineer would set us straight... seems like the profesor in the video was right, it's the electricity passing through water that heats it up ... oh well....
We are beyond the precision of the watt meter. Uncertainty calculations should had been performed
...hmmmm, i wonder how much extra NerzhDishual's preliminary COP = 1 results would have to get, for them to be something magical?!? ;)
keep on truckin', guys
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
Personally I would say a COP > 1.5 or so, at least. Why? Because a 1.02 or 1.09 or 0.98 COP, given the inprecision of the measurement equipment is not enough to make a case of OU if the uncertainty in the measuring equipment is not determined rigurously. In a serious scientific writeup, complete with uncertainty calulations , I would get excited at even a 1.00001 COP, but from a backyard tinkerer like myself and NerzhDishual, you better throw in a heafty margin of error LOL :)
Well, I decided to have a shot at this. No bells available, so I went with two SS measures, one inside the other
...
My electric kettle is rated between 1850-2200W and with a full-load of about 1.75L, it takes 320 seconds to boil. Using my gizmo, the same quantity takes 105 seconds.
...
I tried various things such as leaving the inner part loose, and a few attempts at adjusting its placing, but it didn't seem to have any effect. Neither did the way it was orientated in the water, though with no holes to let the bubbles out, I tested it right-side-up most of the time...
Working with 230V AC, I started out with a 5A fuse, and was quite surprised that it didn't blow - at first! When the water begins to boil, the current increases big-time, and it blew. Exchanging this for a 13A solved the problem...
My first impression is that maybe it is just more efficient to boil water this way...
SPROCKET NICE thats a BIG difference you going to put an in line meter on both Chet [ silly question]
Well, I decided to have a shot at this. No bells available, so I went with two SS measures, one inside the other (yep, I've been raiding the kitchen again :)) Working with 230V AC, I started out with a 5A fuse, and was quite surprised that it didn't blow - at first! When the water begins to boil, the current increases big-time, and it blew. Exchanging this for a 13A solved the problem...
Some results:
My electric kettle is rated between 1850-2200W and with a full-load of about 1.75L, it takes 320 seconds to boil. Using my gizmo, the same quantity takes 105 seconds. So no instant-boiling... Unfortunately, I don't have a clamp meter, and although my multi-meter's fuse is rated to 10A, I didn't want to risk blowing it, so no current reading. However, as both the kettle and the gizmo use 13A fuses, and the kettles rated power usage is about 10A, I think it is reasonable to assume that even my first attempt is more efficient power-wise - at least that's my take on it! I tried various things such as leaving the inner part loose, and a few attempts at adjusting its placing, but it didn't seem to have any effect. Neither did the way it was orientated in the water, though with no holes to let the bubbles out, I tested it right-side-up most of the time...
My first impression is that maybe it is just more efficient to boil water this way...
ND's and Sprocket's results prove that if something works it will work in many ways/shapes.
The reason that there is no instant boiling and for high current consumption is according to
the myth the tunings.
None of the experimenters tuned the inner bell and when the inner bell in not tuned, the second
tuning (distance) does not have any importance.
All according to the myth.
Another realisation - using distilled water and electrolyte will allow me to control the current used, so I can measure it with the meter!!! (10A max.)
So some hard-figures:
Started with approx. 350-400mL of distilled water, room temp, with a microscopic amount of of sodium bicarbonate added, and used the 'little' Davey heater. It took 150 seconds to boil, (rather, I stopped it after that, 'cos it was boiling nicely) starting out drawing just under 3A @ 230V AC, climbing to a max. of 4.2A leading up to boiling, before finally dropping back to a little above 3A when boiling!
Efficiency anyone???
To be precise you needto weigh the water so the exact ml are measured. Also the starting water temp and end water temp. Not all water boils at 100 deg, depends where you live. Also don't assume you are receiving 230v this needs to be measured before and after test. If you have a watt meter, then voltage and amp measurements are unecessary.
Also check if amps are gradual rise with water temp and do they jump around when the bubbling starts
To be precise you needto weigh the water so the exact ml are measured. Also the starting water temp and end water temp. Not all water boils at 100 deg, depends where you live. Also don't assume you are receiving 230v this needs to be measured before and after test. If you have a watt meter, then voltage and amp measurements are unecessary.
Also check if amps are gradual rise with water temp and do they jump around when the bubbling starts
;D
Thinking about Davey device I realized that it may be a tricky way to use a very little power to maintain heat action is such device. That way would not be mechanical or electrical mainly, but rather electromagnetic. It may look very strange or like a crazy idea but the only convertion from electrical to mechanical power (which is required to generate sound I suppose - sonic response of bells) is ELECTROMAGNET!
Hi. I should just mention that my last creation had a nice 'dingggg...' off of it when struck with a piece of metal, and being a piston-type interference-fit construction is very easy to 'tune' - which I attempted to do by ear. So, striking the outer dome, there was a point that was pretty easy to find where the inner one would also reverberate at its higher frequency. Did nothing to speed up the heating process, at least as far as I could see. Really, really need current measuring equipment for this though...
Just to note,please: if you use my ideas with success remember I want to give theml for free to all people.I deny and forbid to patent any of them related to such embodiments and ideas I described on that forum.Your posts will amount to "Prior Art", and no patent dated after the date of
Hi. Yes, most of what you say, I already realised, but a ball-park figure was all I was expecting. Typical UK climate, voltage never seems to vary from 225V RMS, and as I mentioned, current grew progressively from about 2.9A to max-out at 4.2A at the onset of boiling, before falling again to 3.1A when boiling vigorously.
Hi sprocket then all I need is a starting temp to give you a basic COP
I was doing this like 5 years ago and posting about it on this list and others. It is very simple and commercial versions of this type of device are called "Electrode Boilers" (google it).
The way I did it was to put two stainless electrodes in a jar of pure water and then add maybe 5 or 6 drops of an electrolyte like NaOH or H2SO4. I hooked the electrodes up to standard 110v wall socket power and to ground. I could boil a quart of water in 60 seconds with virtually zero current through the jar.
Theory is that the ac wave causes the water molecules to spin around really fast and the heat energy produced is then due to friction between the atoms as they spin.
Just another comment on your reply. Even if there were zero current through the cell it would not be OU. Why? Because you have to take into account the energy that is required to keep the 60hz signal from the AC line pulsing through the cell. You can do some really wild stuff with water and magnets and electricity. I was doing a lot of active experimentation and recording it on my old website here:
http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870
Check out the "My Ideas" pages if you want. I have come a long way since then but it was fun.
I could boil a quart of water in 60 seconds with virtually zero current through the jar.
----------------------------------------
Even if there were zero current through the cell it would not be OU. Why? Because
you have to take into account the energy that is required to keep the 60hz signal from
the AC line pulsing through the cell.
--------------------------------------
With or without current flow you still have the electromagnetic wave through the cell spinning the water. The ground electrode is of a constant charge and the "hot" electrode is cycling through the range of maximum to minimum charge 60 times per second. You see? Even with no current the wave is present in the water and could spin the molecules.
@Enki09 very useful information. So where is the electrical energy consumed then?
Electrmagnetic wave is spinning the water ok. Good point. But in Davey's device there must be also
acoustic energy.
As these electrode heaters are 99.9% efficient, adding the acoustic energy
into the equation may be the jump factor into the OU territory.
Until now I believe our experimenters have realised the electromagnetic energy transfer
into the water. Now it is upto adding the acoustic part of it.
I came accross the following little bit of info:
Heat: this is the energy of vibrating particles in a substance.
Sound: this is the energy of vibrating particles.
Interesting?
I could boil a quart of water in 60 seconds with virtually zero current through the jar.
----------------------------------------
Even if there were zero current through the cell it would not be OU. Why? Because
you have to take into account the energy that is required to keep the 60hz signal from
the AC line pulsing through the cell.
--------------------------------------
With or without current flow you still have the electromagnetic wave through the cell spinning the water. The ground electrode is of a constant charge and the "hot" electrode is cycling through the range of maximum to minimum charge 60 times per second. You see? Even with no current the wave is present in the water and could spin the molecules.
Sandy is there a way to make use of that 1.2?
Air temp atm is 15 Celcius, which sounds about right.Hey Sprocket according to your last set of figures you're talking about a COP of 1.53. When one gets figures like this it is time to get more serious about all the data.
Doing a quick comparasion between my last results and my kettle results doesn't inspire confidence (assuming my rough calculation is ok)
1.7L tap-water => avg power required = 2,000W * 320 secs (time to boil) = 640,000 joules.
400mL Distilled water => avg power required = (Avg Current) 4A * 230V (AC mains) * 150 (time to boil) = 138,000
Adjusting for different amounts of water => 138,000 * 1700 / 400 = 586,500 joules
640,000 versus 586,000 - Not a big difference...
Out of curiousity, I have just boiled the same 400mL of distilled water, then 400mL of tap-water in the kettle - both took 89 seconds.
400mL distilled water => 2000 * 89 sec = 178,000 joules
So, it is about 29% more efficient than my clapped-out kettle.
Finally, seeing that the currents being drawn are fairly low, I chanced boiling 400mL of tap-water with my Davey heater, with meter attached. Time taken was 70 seconds. Current starts at 4A, raises steadily, maxing at 7.8A on meter before falling to between 5.5-6.5A when boiling. There is a lot of fluctuation in current, in sync with the bubbles being produced.
400mL tap-water => 7.8 * 230 * 70 = 125580 joules
The higher conductivity of my (crappy) tap-water seems to improve efficiency (42%) relative to my kettle.
All assuming my math is correct! :D
Attempting to take this up a level, so I sampled my inner bell's sound, found the fundamental frequency was pretty close to 1000Hz (933Hz), so ground it down till I got closer. As you can see, not an ideal bell by any means, and hitting the magic 1000 proved illusive! But I did look for effects between 990 -> 1010Hz with no success. There's also a little soundfile attached - the bells sounds first, then a 1000Hz tone I generated for comparison. As you can hear, (and see in pic.) they are pretty close.
So, question, am I right in thinking that 1000Hz is a harmonic of the 50Hz mains frequency?
(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll190/Sprocket_06/DaveyBell_1000HZ_Sound.jpg)
Hey Sprocket according to your last set of figures you're talking about a COP of 1.53. When one gets figures like this it is time to get more serious about all the data.
Are you saying that :
Water Qty is 400ml
Start temp of water is 15 deg
End Temp is 100 deg
Time taken is 70 sec
And avg amps is 5.9 (start of 4 and end of 7.9)
If so COP is 1.53
Are you using a temperature guage on the water?
The octave harmonics of 50Hz would be 100Hz, 200Hz, 400Hz, 800Hz, 1600Hz, 3200Hz, etc
I don't think it's the electricity that vibrates the bell but the electricity passing through the water at 60Hz having a 60Hz contraction expansion which is then aided by the bells also naturally vibrating at that same frequency. So it's the electricity to the water to the bell that the vibration propagates. The water becomes the hammer to the bell.
Make no mistake, I do not have a well-equipped lab here, so tend to err on the side of caution with regard to the measurments (ie. use max. rather than avg. current in calcs). The 400mL is accurate, the start temp was current air temp at time of test, and the end boil-time taken from visual queues - vigorous boiling!
What does my kettle COP come to based on the measurments I posted? If the COP is greater than 1, you will know my measurments are suspect! :D Also, just did another test - different distilled water/baking soda solution, results were:
400mL distilled water @ 15 deg Celsius.
Start Current 1.8A, rising to 4.4A
Time taken to boil very vigourously 190 seconds
Personally, since I heard about "electrode boiler" (which is all this is) I have been looking for any info about the power Mr. Davey's device may have used, but can't find any! Without some evidence that the power required was unexplainably small, we could well just be dealing with an electrode boiler here...
Aha, thanks, that's what I needed to know! Also sucks of course 'cos both 'bells' aren't suitable - small one 1000Hz, (after much work!) large one is about 825Hz... Of course, it also means that there is a valid reason for it not having worked! :)
The octave harmonics of 50Hz would be 100Hz, 200Hz, 400Hz, 800Hz, 1600Hz, 3200Hz, etcDon't forget that the USA users need to tune to these possibilities:
I realized that my inner bell is mostly covered by black paint which is probably insulation so I must scrap it all and retest again. The problem is how to mount bells in such manner that allow them to vibrate and still be connected to power. Any wire connected to bells seems to reduce vibration a lot.
Looking once again into video... Obviously that small hemispherical metalic objects laying on Davey tabletop are common because he has got so many. Why I can't find any ? Where can I buy a few such hemispheres ?Peter is an old man - 92. You have to remember that during the 1940, 50's 60, 70's - alarm clocks were mechanical and had bells on them. Bike bells were common too. This is stuff from previous generations.
There seems to be a disagreement of sorts on what multiple of the fundamental frequency should be used, a hugely important number imo, if only from the work point of view, as the bell will have to be ground down to this frequency...You won't get results with 1000Hz.
Having got no positive results with 1000Hz
If this thing draws 4 amps @ 240V (I live in Christchurch New Zealand - it's 50Hz 240V here) then that is 960 Watts. If it rises to 8.6A - that's 2064 Watts.C'mon greendoor, what i have seen from kiwis (if the all blacks are any indicator) is that you are tough group of people. Go down and see Peter, not that i think he'll give out any deatails, as he is still waiting for that elusive investor (after 70 years), but see what he will give, and quickly post it on the forum. As for the spooks... whats the worst that they can do... send you to Australia for a month, actually worse still, send you for 2 months.
There is something seriously wrong if you can't boil a cup of tea very quickly with 2kW! I believe there is a principle here that requires serious research, but I suspect the recent media release is disinformation designed to mislead researchers. I was tempted to look up Peter Davey - but decided against it. His phone number is unlisted. I could find his house and go see him - but he's 92. I don;t expect to gain much. Maybe he is being manipulated in his old age to cover up the truth? The wierd stuff published by "Dr Jan Pajak" appears to be delusional, sad and fairly creepy. But he gives good reason to be very suspicious of this recent unearthing of Peter Davey's invention. So if he's right, I don't want to tangle with the government spooks. And if "Dr Jan" is the spook (disguised as a whacko) I don't want to tangle with something our government might be trying to smear at the moment. Either way - something is very dubious about this whole thing, and I doubt we can find the truth without experimenting with the basic acoustic principle. Or waste your time frying water with high current AC mains power ... it's your choice.
I'm a musician, and I know about tuning and resonance. I can get a house shaking with a carefully tuned bass or synth note. How much energy would that take by any other means? And that's with air-coupling! Think about that for a moment ... there is great power in resonance if you tune it right. Get a musician involved if you don't understand this part.
If there is any overunity in this device, it's from the acoustic effect - which is what Peter Blake has said all along. I just think his big mistake was to try to use AC power - but back in the 1940's there wasn't the electronic solutions we have today.
I keep on seeing the wrong information being given about harmonics.
It is like this
if your fundamental frequency is 50hz as with the AC mains then the resonant frequencies are multiples of that. ie 50 , 100, 150 , 200 and so on. Not as is being stated by some as 50, 100, 200, 400
In the USA it is 60, 120, 180, 240 etc.. NOT 60, 120, 240, 480
Read up on resonances and harmonic waveforms.
Also for those who understand physics it is - see pic attached
So 1000Hz is a resonant of the fundamental 50Hz
If this thing draws 4 amps @ 240V (I live in Christchurch New Zealand - it's 50Hz 240V here) then that is 960 Watts. If it rises to 8.6A - that's 2064 Watts.
There is something seriously wrong if you can't boil a cup of tea very quickly with 2kW!...
Here is a link to a paper I wrote a couple years ago when I found this effect:
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/mj_17870/boilercell.html">Click Here</a>
I think that Davey device is not using more then 100W but we won't see...
Someone should convince him to publish some video showing amperage usage while boiling cold water.
@Storre
No: I did not try any tuning.
Best
I keep on seeing the wrong information being given about harmonics.
It is like this
if your fundamental frequency is 50hz as with the AC mains then the resonant frequencies are multiples of that. ie 50 , 100, 150 , 200 and so on. Not as is being stated by some as 50, 100, 200, 400
I have found something which may be really usefull - egg shaped device for making tea. Something like this : http://www.naherbatke.pl/product.php?id=2503&categorie=119 but mine is a cheaper one, SS inox type, cheaper probably becouse of thinner walls.I am working on soup ladles from cheap kitchen shops.
I am working on soup ladles from cheap kitchen shops.
Don't forget that if they sound off just over G sharp (depnding on your country and AC),
then you will have to grind off a heck of a lot of metal to get down to the next G sharp (approx).
I have invested in a set of pitch pipes from a music shop. They give G, if not G sharp. People in
the shop will think you're daft, but uit saves a lot of grinding.
Paul.
Thanks,but I only want it to be my casing. Inside I'd like to place a small bike bell.I believe the bells should be the same so that the gap between them is constant.
I think if the bells are the same size and shape then the space will not be consistent throughout. If both bells are supposed to be tuned to the same frequency then the inner bell will have to be longer and skinnier to fit inside the outer bell. If they were cone shaped then it would be easier and the gap more consistent but it might effect the harmonics. I will be trying it both ways in about a week.
According to the text we have tuning is for the inner bell only and then the distance from the outer bell. IMO
It makes some sense as the live wire is connected to the inner bell and the outer bell gets neutral connection.
Moreover ,I see no point in having two vibrations at the same time anyway. Just one vibration and a surface at the right
distance that the waves will be hitting and bouncing back.
Does someone know what type of 220v they have in NZ?It is 50 hz, according to these people:
According to the text we have tuning is for the inner bell only and then the distance from the outer bell.I am certain that BOTH the inner bell and the outer bell must be tuned to resonate with
I am certain that BOTH the inner bell and the outer bell must be tuned to resonate with
the frequency of your mains.
Paul.
Could you explain the dynamics if it is more then a feeling please.Its what Mr Davey says.
Its what Mr Davey says.
Paul.
Is there an indication on the frequencies?The frequency is simply the frequency of the experimentators AC mains supply
The frequency is simply the frequency of the experimentators AC mains supply
(or an octave of it).
Paul.
Yes there is no doubt about it.Yes. both bells are tuned to the fr4quency of your AC mains, or
I meant to ask if both are the same frequency?
How to tune them ? I can't imagine tuning while connected to mains... Do you really think that AC current produce a sound while passing through conductor ? Then why I don't hear any sound in my wall socket ?The easiest way to do it (for the rest of us, non-musicians) is to use computer software to analyze the sound the bell emits. From my experience it is the same as the frequency it resonates.
Egg shaped device for making tea. Good idea, IMHO.
whats the patent number ?
How to tune them ? I can't imagine tuning while connected to mains... Do you really think that AC current produce a sound while passing through conductor ? Then why I don't hear any sound in my wall socket ?The resonant effect is electrical, not sound.
How to tune them ? I can't imagine tuning while connected to mains... Do you really think that AC current produce a sound while passing through conductor ? Then why I don't hear any sound in my wall socket ?
Hi Guys,
Should anybody be interested in, this page:
http://freenrg.info/Sonettes_Davey/Freq/ (http://freenrg.info/Sonettes_Davey/Freq/) has just been updated. :P
I'm now searching for a good mussel hunting workshop.... ;D
Best
I got this wrong. In the States, or anyone with 60hz mains will be looking for a note
If you are in the States where AC power is 60 cycles per second, ask for E above the G sharp. The note is in between E and F.
Paul.
Hi Guys,I measured the bells and got the following frequencies:
Should anybody be interested in, this page:
http://freenrg.info/Sonettes_Davey/Freq/ (http://freenrg.info/Sonettes_Davey/Freq/) has just been updated. :P
I'm now searching for a good mussel hunting workshop.... ;D
Best
I measured the bells and got the following frequencies:What are the diameters of your bells, and what is the distance from the rim
Bell 0 = 347.5 hz
1 = 917 & 941 Hz
2 = 2148 & 2198 Hz
3 = 649 Hz
4= 760 Hz
Anyone else get this ?
Should anybody be interested in, this page:I notice that your screen shot shows frequencies from 2000 hz to 20 khz. Are you sure
http://freenrg.info/Sonettes_Davey/Freq/ (http://freenrg.info/Sonettes_Davey/Freq/) has just been updated. :P
I measured the bells and got the following frequencies:
Bell 0 = 347.5 Hz
1 = 917 & 941 Hz
2 = 2148 & 2198 Hz
3 = 649 Hz
4= 760 Hz
Anyone else get this ?
@Paul-R and DOCV:A bell will have more than one frequency, but if it is a good quality hemishere,
I have just made another analysis of my #3 bell.
It "sounds" like you can find a of frequencies in one bell.
It is not a sine wave!!!
Later I polished my inner bell and mounted tightly. Current rised up to 10A and lights in my house started to blinking but result was worse...Why not try to pick up an inexpensive variac from Ebay? That way,
I'm presently roasting some IRF250 trying to reproduce the
JL Naudin experiments about the Meyer WFC. (http://jnaudin.free.fr/wfc/)
PS: may I take advantage of this post to ask:
Is there any French/Breton guy over there?
How many are we interested in, and experimenting these 'OU subjects'?
To tune your bells or to check any audible frequency accurately and if you have speakers on your computer, spend no more money. Go to http://nch.com.au/tonegen/index.html and download their free tone generator.The essence of the Peter Davey system is accuracy. How accurate is this software? How accurate
The essence of the Peter Davey system is accuracy. How accurate is this software?More to the point, if the tones are generated by a crystal in the sound card, how accurate
I was thinking and thinking and FOUND THIS :
http://youtube.com/watch?v=oLUeGX3hNpU
now scale this down add a tiny resistance heater around electrodes to rise water temperature initially to 100-120 F and what you see ? Yeah...it's Peter Davey heater ! Plasma reaction in small amount of water!
SERIOUSLY!
hi every one I have also constructed one of these heaters and have to say you have got something here.
my amps ran at 3.5-4 after tuning and shifting the distance between the bells i managed to pull it down to 1-1.5 amps.
the time to bring my water to boil was halved.
i think with precision tuning we may do better.
i boil about a litre of water in 45s to 1 minute don't know why the times differ though.
i am currently looking for better bells or domes and a better way to shift the distance.
i used two bicycle bells and PVC threaded rod this was the best i can do.
maybe ill have some good news in the future thanks guys for all the tips
Hi Digits,...or any octave of this - i.e. 50hz, 100hz, 200hz, 400hz 800hz etc.
Thanks for posting the results of your work.
Are you running 220 volts 50Hz to the bells? Were you able to check the resonant frequency of the bells before installation? Earlier postings indicated the bells must resonate at the frequency of the applied voltage. I think it would be difficult or impossible to make a bicycle bell to resonate at 50Hz...
I doubt that anyone would make 50 or 60hz tuning forks. They are not musical notes.
Therefore I thought one should obtain two Identical Tuning Forks at 50 or 60 hertz .....
If you ask for KOH I am afraid that they send someone to check me out......
Hi AllYes, if your mains is 50hz, (and of course, in the States it is 60), then both bells must
Been reading this thread with interest,just two questions,at the moment,if someone would be good enough to answer,do BOTH bells need to be tuned to 50hz?and doe's the surfice of the bells need to be totally parallel to each other over there intire area
peter
I don't see that tuning the other bell will have any significance.....The Davey method definitely requires BOTH bells to be tuned to mains freq or an octave thereof. This is very clear.
I would then hit the bell and tune the generator to the same sound the bell made it was roughly 1550 to 1580....
storre posted the first of this subject on February 9, 2008. If you download the attachment of 48 pages you will find the Davey article on pages 20 and 21 of the 48 pages. At the end of the article it says only the inner bell needs to be tuned to the mains frequency of 50 HZ.On page 20/48 of this document, it says:
I've been sitting on some ideas, but I may as well donate them to the party ... it will be interesting to see the spooks rip them apart ...
.. there is awesome energy in resonance. So if we could use this to tear water molecule bonds apart, and if zero-point energy is involved, as Kanarev suggests, there could be some very interesting energy results.
I've been sitting on some ideas, but I may as well donate them to the party ... it will be interesting to see the spooks rip them apart ...This was proposed by me at the UK Free-Energy Conference a few weeks ago. The advantage is
There is a simple way to avoid the whole tuning issue: feedback assisted sustain....
Interesting...What about of induction of eddy currents directly INSIDE water ? Breaking hydrogen bonds... ??
If you are interested in water heaters that have potential to be highly efficient try the Eugene Frenette Patent 4143639 or the one which actually makes claims of overunity that had to be proven in order for the patent to be granted which does use a dipole effect (sorry can't find the reference right now) but it basically acts like a miniature aerial within a cavity the supposedly has a COP over 2. Once again these things need to be built in order to verify the results.
It's not about being discouraged it's about science plain and simple. One can speculate and throw ideas around as much as you want but at the end of the day one must test these ideas out. The davey heater does not heat water any better than an element....Build one and prove yourself wrong.
It's not about being discouraged it's about science plain and simple. One can speculate and throw ideas around as much as you want but at the end of the day one must test these ideas out. The davey heater does not heat water any better than an element....
Thanks but Frenette is more an air (space) heater. I needed an adaptable water heater.
Grenier is perfect.
But I got curious about the other one you mentioned. More information, could you?
Build one and prove yourself wrong.
Paul.
This statement is untrue, as at worst, the Davey heater will act as an "Electrode Boiler", which are known to be up to 99.9% efficient - ie. more effecient than "element heaters".
I have experimented with a few builds and can state definitively that Davey heaters do boils water much faster than at least one element heater - ie. my kettle! The problem with this kind of experimentation is that it can get expensive, electricity-wise! I was recently thinking though, if 'resonance' is the 'secret', then experimenting with pure distilled water would be the way to go - a Davey/Electrode heater would use no electricity 'normally', though neither will it boil the distilled water! However this lack of activity could be looked on as a benefit, 'cos if resonance is the answer, current would only start flowing in appreciable amounts as the heater was 'tuned' to the 'sweet-spot' - LC-circuit-wise!
Build what?There's a clue in the message title.
There's a clue in the message title.
This statement is untrue, as at worst, the Davey heater will act as an "Electrode Boiler", which are known to be up to 99.9% efficient - ie. more effecient than "element heaters".
I have experimented with a few builds and can state definitively that Davey heaters do boils water much faster than at least one element heater - ie. my kettle! The problem with this kind of experimentation is that it can get expensive, electricity-wise! I was recently thinking though, if 'resonance' is the 'secret', then experimenting with pure distilled water would be the way to go - a Davey/Electrode heater would use no electricity 'normally', though neither will it boil the distilled water! However this lack of activity could be looked on as a benefit, 'cos if resonance is the answer, current would only start flowing in appreciable amounts as the heater was 'tuned' to the 'sweet-spot' - LC-circuit-wise!
Thanks but Frenette is more an air (space) heater. I needed an adaptable water heater.
Grenier is perfect.
But I got curious about the other one you mentioned. More information, could you?
Another theory:Also, the resonance may cause dissociation into monatomic atoms and immediate
correct frequency of electric field convert part of water into cold steam breaking hydrogen bonds between water molecule, then sinewave AC bouncing molecules heat it up very fast. The first is crucial, and if this is correct it's strongly related to Stanley Meyer original water fuel cell.
@ALL,
I got across a real free energy heater IF there is already a moving liquid or gas inside a pipe!
Please read the following patent and any comments will be highly appreciated.
US5773798
I made a simple room heater design in the following way :
Take a pipe (some pipes) and build the structure inside.
With a small electric motor turn the structure while blowing air
inside the pipe.
On the other side of the pipe get heated air.
I know my design is not free energy but would be a highly efficient heater
as the motor is a small one. It all depends on how hot the air on the other side
would be. It could even be OU if it is hot enough.
1. I intend to build this design and am curious about your comments on how
efficient it would be.
2. It could be made into a closed loop water heating system for household heating
purposes as well. How efficient would that one be?
Dev
please post graphical explanation
thanks, i am about to look at the file now... like to see your home made version. off to see the file now...
@ALL,Is this like normal induction heating, like the classic induction furnace? Why do you
I got across a real free energy heater IF there is already a moving liquid or gas inside a pipe!
Please read the following patent and any comments will be highly appreciated.
US5773798
My understanding is that the device is not powered at all.
The liquid or gas normally turns the whole structure and magnetic
lines between the triple square "a" and magnets are made and broken
continuously which in turn heats the passing liquid or gas.
This is like watch someone flogging a dead horse.We understand your frustration but
The Peter Davey heater does NOT use resonance and is not overunity.
We can kick theories around all day, but for heavens sake build something to talk about.
The Davey heater works by induction, it's as simple as that!If this were true, tuning would not matter.
If this were true, tuning would not matter.
What is your evidence for this remark?
I don't think you know your a**se from your elbow, DOCV.
Paul.
Perhaps you are right, but let's at least stop referring to the Davey heater as some amazing heating unit that uses audio vibrations to exert excess energy that heats water rapidly.How then you explain the pictures showing boiling water and 8A current on the meter? Can you boil water INSTANTLY with 8A/220V? I can't.
The Davey heater works by induction, it's as simple as that!
However if one wants to pursue whether an overunity effect can be realized by using his model of dome shaped objects then the following has to be undertaken.
Alter the mains frequency so that it is a harmonic of the 1st bell unit, not the other way around. The second bell will of course have to be a harmonic of the 1st and the distance between the two will have to be adjusted in case there is a dipole effect. This is the next logical step forward, not Himalayan singing bowls.
How then you explain the pictures showing boiling water and 8A current on the meter? Can you boil water INSTANTLY with 8A/220V? I can't.Yes, NewAge. You're right.
Yes, NewAge. You're right.
What DOCV has forgotten, if he ever knew, is that the Davey heater originated from a
fighter pilot diving his aircraft, and getting a strange heating effect in the cokpit
if he could achieve certain frequencies with engine speed and various other rattling
components (cockpit canopy, probably).
The work has been replicated on many occasions, and if the tuning is good, then the
results are remarkable. Manufacturers have backed off because they do not believe that
it will be possible to pass safety regulations when putting mains electricity into water.
Paul.
look for 2 x grid current frequency !Any octave of the grid frequency will do:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGT5PB733a0At the moment, I can't view videos, but I suspect that there are
I just realized what they are saying in video."high frequency sonic vibration" Huh!?
100hz is not high frequency. Do they know something or just guessing ? Listen carefully.
This FeMRaDD technology seems very interesting, but I doubt that
it is Peter daysh Davey, which is, in its essence, very simple.
At $18,000, their gear is not that expensive. It should be possible
to find a hospital or similar to buy one on the grounds that, if it
doesn't work as described, they should be able to get their money
back under the "Sale of Goods Act" (UK law).
there are several technologies femradd , stnda , clai , het , pecThe links you gave in message 439 take us to Femradd. Do you have
I speak of the heater H E T
YES! Definitely Davey found an effect called magnetostriction : http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/solids/magstrict.html
That joined with cavitation explain his device very well. The external shell is resonant cavity and probably contains very small holes. The internal bell is made from highly magnetostriction material. Both are probably somehow insulated to limit current but still allow magnetostriction.The effect is and contraction/expansion process of inner bell walls at 100 or 120 hz frequency which in correct shape should produce circulation of water between bells at around 3600 rpm, very similar to commerial cavitation heaters driven by electric motor.
The links you gave in message 439 take us to Femradd. Do you have
a link to the H E T device that you mention?
Tagor
Any specs?
who sells this?
Thanks
Chet
Their web site says it is patented. Does anyone know the number?
Tagor
Its not that I'm lazy {I don't read french}
But,
Are there specific efficiency claims ?
Comparisons to conventional elec heat??
Thanks
Chet
Maybe it was patented in GB also ? Seems logical.I do not know French >:(
This is not true.
The size of the bells will have no relationship to their bell-resonant frequency.