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Author Topic: Peter Davey Heater  (Read 490688 times)

storre

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #165 on: June 05, 2008, 08:16:12 PM »
Yes I've been mentioning the water hammer over in the other thread about stubblefield batteries. Seems to me something similar is happening in the electron level when flow is abruptly stopped. It seems for an instant there is some type of infinite energy there.

It seems that with two bells vibrating against something close or against each other at a rhythmic frequency might cause micro cavitation.

nul-points

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #166 on: June 06, 2008, 03:11:56 PM »
hi Storre

i think this area (eg microcavitation) is much more likely to be involved in any anomalous activity going on in Davey's heater - see my reply #149 relating to sonoluminescence on the previous page in this thread

here's a quote from a relevant patent :
"Acoustic Coaxing Induced Microcavitation (ACIM)

ACIM ...induced using a low frequency, high intensity primary acoustic field and a higher frequency, low intensity coaxing acoustic field. To effect ACIM, the two fields were substantially simultaneously directed at a site of a workpiece or object.

ACIM methods and apparatuses of the present invention may be used to erode metallic surfaces, help shatter kidney stones, accelerate chemical reactions and even lead to light production, i. e., sonoluminescence."

so - possibly, in Davey's heater, low freq = 50Hz mains vibration? & high frequency = resonant freq of electrode?


also, on the subject of the heater's construction, i noticed in a photo of one of Davey's variations on his sphere design, this one where the bottom 'plate' had a wider gap from the sphere

you can see something extending out from within the bottom of the sphere a little - could it possibly be a cylinder?!

interesting, too, to see a little more of the area between the handle & the upper small 'bell' - signs of silver soldering around the area where the copper end of the handle goes into the upper bell - looks like a good electrical connection to me - on the end of the handle!   got to hope it's earth, not neutral or live!  ;)

take care all, have fun
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site  http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc

NewAge

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #167 on: June 06, 2008, 10:25:32 PM »
Now, if you haven't yet, watch and LISTEN carefully http://multimedia.stuff.co.nz/thepress/sonic/
You will hear the 50Hz hum of the main when he immerses the boiler.

devrimogun

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #168 on: June 07, 2008, 01:26:21 AM »
I read the whole last weeks material just now and see that all contributions were very useful.
Congratulations all. Especially nul-point there. What a careful detective work over the material
thats out there! You must be Lady Sherlock. Not to mention the amount of valuable knowledge
that got shared.

My attention was drawn most by the discussion of sonoluminescence and micro cavities.
My deduction from the last weeks material is that what heats the water is the very many
micro bubbles get created mostly by the vibration of the bell(s) and then they IMplode
which would be one explanation of the extra energy that seems to be there.

Then I come back to one of my very early posts in this topic. Why do we need to power
this thing with electricity at all? When all it does is to ring the bell(s)  very gently 50 times/sec.
Then, can we get another gentle and fast "ringer" that has less energetic cost then electricity?
Or do we just increase the frequency of the AC that we put in for better results?
Is as all we need is a lot of frequency, and a little voltage and a little current?
(frequency still in respect with the harmonic resonance needed by the bell(s) to be efficient.)

If those assumptions are correct then the devices tried by two of our friends just drew a lot
of current because of the simple fact that it is in this setups nature to draw a lot of current (electrolysis)

Again, I may be way off but please be gentle. :)

PS : Thank you very much ND.
 

forest

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #169 on: June 07, 2008, 01:41:05 AM »
I think it has something to do with steam creation. Apparently when steam is created conductivity rises and current draw drops to minimal level.

I think that according to video and article that outside spherical metalic cover must be connected to Earth ground for safety. I'm not electrical engineer and I would like to know how then it's possible it to work if inside are two Ac electrodes. Doesn't it generates a shortcircuit with Earth ground ?

Also patent mantions interesting approach : 3 electrodes : one is central rod, second two are tubes. Connection is similar as in Joe cell. One AC phase is between two electrodes of second AC phase.

Why I din't see the same in schematic of device based on bells ?

retrod

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #170 on: June 07, 2008, 02:35:00 AM »

I think that according to video and article that outside spherical metalic cover must be connected to Earth ground for safety. I'm not electrical engineer and I would like to know how then it's possible it to work if inside are two Ac electrodes. Doesn't it generates a shortcircuit with Earth ground ?



Is it possible the device will only work properly with distilled water? This may be the only way (in my opinion) to have a 'constant' in the conductivity of the water.
RD

nul-points

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #171 on: June 09, 2008, 02:26:52 AM »
Congratulations all. Especially nul-point there. What a careful detective work over the material
thats out there! You must be Lady Sherlock.

LOL@ Lady Sherlock
dayum, does that mean i need to start shaving my legs?!?

(nul-points = ugly, 6'2", 205lbs / 1.88m 93kilo, ex-rugby player!)  ;D

but thank you for the kind words - appreciated!

good ideas also for trying variations with other freqs & acoustic-only input


now - check this dude out - this is what i'm talking about - this man has sacrificed his (spare!) kitchen (see photo below) for the good of humanity and a better future:

Mr Dishual (aka 'Nerzh' to his old friends) has just got on with the experiments - 2 bells / 3 bells / hanging / standing / pointing down / pointing up /

his experiment variations and results, so far, posted at at the lower part of the following page
   http://freenrg.info/Exp_With_DallasGB_Elect/Davey_Versus_DallasGoldBug.html

kudos, man!!!

all the best
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site  http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc

forest

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #172 on: June 09, 2008, 09:02:32 AM »
Hi,

I think all experimenters forgot about one important element - a spherical casing. Without that sonic waves cannot bounce and all action is lost. See all Davey videos if he's using other heaters casing .. NO, he's not!  even in patent he is using ceramic tubular container. All element must be able to responce SONICALLY - if you hit them the sound must be rich of harmonics .

nul-points

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #173 on: June 09, 2008, 12:07:42 PM »
hi forest

his earlier designs didn't have any casing at all


i think we'll find that if resonance tuning is important to some OU activity in this kind of heater, then it won't be acoustic standing waves

acoustic standing waves would need an absolutely calm environment to sustain - and the bubbling of steam & how water here is definitely not a calm environment!

electrical standing waves might possibly sustain without the water being calm - but, as i mentioned in an earlier post, the wavelengths for electrical standing waves are LARGE compared to what we're seeing here - even a 144MHz standing wave would have to be around 2metres long! 

so - this is why i think microcavitation is the best fit for some anomalous OU-type activity here - if there is anything anomalous at all (so, more testing needed)

microcavitation could be caused by vibration of one or more of the electrodes - and the electrodes can vibrate due to the mains freq (50 or 60Hz) and also by the natural resonance of the electrodes - which could be bells, cyclinders, cones, etc

if we're not looking at standing-wave resonance then it is more likely that ANY type of outer sphere is just providing:-
  1) earth protection
  2) longer water containment between electrodes before it bubbles out, giving more efficient heating

all the best
sandy

forest

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #174 on: June 09, 2008, 01:02:52 PM »
Hi nul-points,

First : where did you got any pictures of Davey  heater without spherical casing ? I cannot find any , except some very suspicious article on kellyNet based on work of even more suspicious Polish (unfortunately) proffesor (?) (I have nothing against him but all his articles even if very interesting are in fact used to promote his extravagant theory.I would not trust them in details)

I agree with you about the role of container and its shape is important too. Did you saw Thrapp device test ? http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxnEQssJ4FQ

However I hardly can imagine how container could be connected to earth  without causing a short-circuit ?

I agree about microcavitation, but again can't imagine how it would happen without any rotation in water and a holes like in that device : http://www.globalmicroturbine.com/Site/Applications/Entries/2006/12/12_Cavitational_Fluid_Heat.html

But what if Davey heater is really a rotary engine ? That concept may look crazy but  explain all. 60hz is the same as 3600 rpm and if water is directly turn into rotating state I would expect such rotation speed. Then only a small holes maybe are needed ? I don't know much about microcavitation. Do you have any links ?


Regards
Boguslaw

forest

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #175 on: June 09, 2008, 01:22:32 PM »
Imagine : no motor, no bearings yet still fast cavitation. it's wonderful, it's music .I'm totally after that! Put those heaters on the market and release plans everywhere!

Sorry,I can't resist..

forest

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #176 on: June 09, 2008, 01:33:14 PM »
OK. I FOUND SOMETHING WHICH LOOKS LIKEWISE !  :o

http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=ioe_Y56pHng&feature=related


nul-points

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #177 on: June 09, 2008, 01:48:35 PM »
hi Boguslaw

picture of one of Davey's heaters without casing below
 

i haven't looked at the Thrapp device yet - i must do that


the device can operate without shorting because the water between the live & neutral electrodes acts as a relatively low impedance (resistance) between them and current flows from the live to the neutral & heats the water in its path

by arranging the electrodes concentrically, the inner electrode is live, the next electrode is neutral and the outer casing is earthed

the shortest, easiest path for the electricity to flow is from the central live electrode to the middle neutral electrode - the gap between electrodes is adjusted to give the required resistance of water path (& therefore current flow) which provides suitably fast heating without blowing a fuse (checkout NerzhDishual's experiments!)

so, little or no current should flow from the live to the earth - but even if it did (and i guess a small amount will, due to the bubbling mixing the water up) then the longer electric path thro' the water from the live electrode to the earth casing will have a higher resistance than to the neutral, so most current will flow, as on conventional element heaters, between live & neutral

does that make sense? i'm not sure i explained it that well !  :)


microcavitation in water can be caused by processes which put large amounts of physical (acoustic) pressure into small volumes of water (even if those small, localised, volumes are within a larger volume of water generally - eg, vibration together of solid parts, compression due to rotating or linear pistons, explosions etc)

i believe that possibly one of the first discoveries of this type of activity was noticed in the bow-waves of ships travelling at speed - sonoluminescence was noticed & was eventually linked with the acoustic turbulence caused in the water by the action of the bow hitting the water

it CAN be done by the power in acoustic standing waves - but, as i mentioned, this really needs a calm stable environment in the water - which we don't have here


i see what you're saying about a rotation in the water - but i think this would be closer to vortex behavior investigated by Victor Schauberger, which is a different, but still possibly OU-type effect


i'll try to look out some relevant microcavitation links - but they shouldn't be hard to find using Google


...just seen that you've added some more posts whilst i was replying - i'll have to check those out later tonight, thanks

all the best
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site  http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc

devrimogun

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #178 on: June 09, 2008, 01:51:26 PM »
LOL@ Lady Sherlock
dayum, does that mean i need to start shaving my legs?!?

(nul-points = ugly, 6'2", 205lbs / 1.88m 93kilo, ex-rugby player!)  ;D


Sorry Nul. I thought Sandy would be a woman's name. You know - Grease for example.
"Saandy can't you see, I'm in misery. We made a start now we're apart there's nothing left for me......."
Anyway, next generation Sherlock then. Hows that?

ND has a major error in his assembly. Davey's has a curved handle and he boils his water using
his hand to put the device inside. The reason is probably to let the cups vibrate more efficiently.

His cups is nothing like Davey's cups and still 1.1COP? (Although fuse blows very soon).
ND will get there as soon as someone sends him bells of the size that is mentioned in the detailed
construction document :) and a handle :)



devrimogun

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #179 on: June 09, 2008, 01:52:34 PM »
Hi nul-points,

First : where did you got any pictures of Davey  heater without spherical casing ? I cannot find any , except some very suspicious article on kellyNet based on work of even more suspicious Polish (unfortunately) proffesor (?) (I have nothing against him but all his articles even if very interesting are in fact used to promote his extravagant theory.I would not trust them in details)

Regards
Boguslaw


I do not think that the spherical casing is anything but an attempt to hide what's inside
from curious eyes like ours. The device is simple! Look at ND there getting 1.1COP with
a setup that hardly resembles Davey's thing.

I mentioned before : If something works it works in many different shapes and ways.
For the moment I propose to assemble something that looks exactly like the device
in the document chapter14.pdf.

Storre you were going to assemble one. What happened to you?
Grinding tooooo easy remember?