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Author Topic: Peter Davey Heater  (Read 448951 times)

Offline NewAge

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Bell tuning software
« Reply #135 on: June 04, 2008, 01:00:25 AM »
Look what I found today:
http://www.hibberts.co.uk/wavanal.htm

"Four programs are available from this website. The most commonly used, Wavanal, is a program for anylsing the tuning of bells, using pre-recorded sounds or from a PC microphone. If you are new to bell analysis, this is the program you need. Rounds is a program for turning recordings of real bells rung singly into change ringing. I use this a lot in tuning experiments. Tuner is a spectrum analyser specifically designed to help with the tuning of bells. Finally, Pitcher is a simple utility for checking the pitch of bell sounds."

Offline nul-points

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #136 on: June 04, 2008, 01:16:43 AM »
@all

...thought i'd better shuffle across to this thread (where's it been hiding?!) and see what's so intriguing that it's stopping my good friend NerzhDishual from helping me with a replication of a different electrical anomaly!  :P

actually, i think the single most amazing fact about this whole device here, is that it's inventor has not electrocuted himself before now!   

look at that water all over his work surfaces where he rests his three closely-joined metal electrodes, themselves covered in water, which are connected directly to the mains

you see, if you survive flying a Spitfire in wartime, the Universe has basically run out of threats to you!!

if you think Peter Davey's 'kettle' is cool - wait 'till you see his electric toothbrush  - ouch!  ;D


seriously, now...

i'm sure you're all going to do excellently well in getting something going here - whether or not i've got anything useful to contribute - so i'll just throw out a few observations from reading thro' the thread

as someone said - it's not rocket science (meaning, i think, there are few components) - something can be elegant & uncomplicated but still profound

so, not many parts - and therefore, everything which is there is probably there for a reason just of it's own


- why the outer sphere?

  the outer sphere is certainly an earth shield (this agrees with the patent) - but it could also act as a containment vessel for the water which is being heated to keep it within the heating area longer - the water will expand & bubble as heating occurs - this will tend to force the water out from between the electrodes. the sphere will help to circulate the heating water around the electrodes before steam pressure finally forces it out of the sphere

  the patent has an outer shell with either slits or holes at each end for the liquid to enter & leave


- why is there an extra, slightly-raised, circular 'plate' at the bottom of the sphere?

  it could just be a small heatsink/stand to avoid ruining his designer-kitchen worktop when he parks the device - but i believe it covers a vent which allows water to enter the sphere - do we have any proof?  well, if you look at the Photo below, you can see a dark 'Twister' in the water below the sphere

  boiling water & steam gets expelled at the top vent & colder water gets sucked in at the bottom vent


- is the sphere aluminium?

  a) i suspect not - i understand it is difficult, to say the least, to weld aluminium!
   as the Polish Prof(?) mentioned, the welding would appear to be too high a standard for Peter to have achieved without some hi-tech equipment
  b) in one of the photos you can see the sphere has been created by welding two half-spheres - again, difficult to do with aluminium - if there are some 'bells' inside he must have welded the sphere around them - could they just be a rod & tube inside the sphere perhaps?
  c) in one of the photos, the silver appearance of the bottom plate on the sphere appears to have worn away leaving a 'copper'-coloured patch


- what dictates the acoustic 'tuning' of a 'bell'?

  i just did my own kitchen experiment with an SS draining bowl - it seems to me that a 'bell' doesn't vibrate just on, say, the outside or just the inside - i believe it vibrates most strongly around the rim - if this is true it would be the length of circumference of the rim which is a major factor in the acoustic pitch of the 'bell'

  when vibrating, a standing wave would be setup along the rim - similar to that trick of running a wetted finger around the rim of a wine-glass - you don't rub your finger round the outside or the inside to get the strongest vibration

  i wouldn't claim to be a musician - but i do play the bass guitar (low E string ~ 41Hz) and i can verify that the acoustic tuning is determined by the length of the string(= rim circumference length of bell); and the thickness of the string (= mass of the bell); and the tension of the string (= bell material)

  you can make two strings which are the same length, but different thickness, play the same frequency note - but you have to change the tension


- is the acoustic tuning of the bell important?

  i'm going to 'go out on a limb' here and say no!

  HOWEVER...

  if you read the patent it is made pretty clear that the electrodes are left loose 'TO VIBRATE' (as has already been pointed out) - special grooves are left in the end-mountings to allow this

  the patent shows many concentric tubes - all different in diameter -  so i believe, although they are all shown as the same length, they will have different resonant frequencies because they all have different masses & circumference lengths

  yes, it may well be that the frequency of the mains causes vibration - but in the patent the central electrode is a rod, not a cylinder and no mention of it being free to vibrate - so that should mean it is the outer 'bell' not the inner one that has to be free to vibrate with the current

 the freedom to vibrate, however, was already a required element (oops, nearly a pun) of the heater design, before he changed over to bells - maybe there is some OU activity in this requirement?


- is the spacing critical? (ie. tuning the gap)

  not according to the patent - just vary the gap to suit the amount of heating required - especially if this is an inline water-flow heater (so we could expect: closer gap = lower water-path resistance = higher current)

  it's been mentioned in some reports that the spacing between the 'bells' has to be tuned for standing waves - for that to be true the frequencies involved would be approaching several-GigaHertz RF wavelengths (144MHz wavelength is around 2metres long!)


- is the device a capacitor?

  water has a high dielectric constant and can polarise strongly, which SHOULD make for a good capacitor - but because it has mobile ions present it is also a good conductor - so, it would be a very 'leaky' capacitor (got to be a pun in there somewhere!)

  H Aspden has a few interesting things to say about concentric capacitors gaining energy from the aether, so i wouldn't rule out some kind of aether resonance - but i doubt that we have to worry about grinding down bells to 'tune' it - the patent just says that the electrodes should be 'free to move from side to side as electric current passes from liquid'

  Davey's patent shows one central rod, 4 alternate live/neutral electrodes, and 1 outer earth cylinder but he says that any number of electrodes can be used (brass or plated brass in the patent's examples)


so, my take on this is that you guys can go straight-ahead & make some concentric bells / cyclinders / cones - just allow some of them to be loosely connected (physically); but they still need to make good electrical connection

interestingly, there's no mention anywhere in the Patent of power-in, current draw, or efficiency levels - the claim is that it heats rapidly and that the whole volume of liquid circulates by convection (ie. it's not a 'radiant' process)


Peter has obviously adapted the original patent design from cylinders to 'bells' - i suspect that it has nothing to do with the shape of his Spitfire's cockpit and heating up with vibration (did he fly it under water?!?)

i think it has everything to do with him playing the saxophone & noticing the resonant vibrations in objects around him when he played - and probably also to the greater availability of bicyle & alarm-clock bells than concentric brass cylinders after the war

...would be interesting to see if there's ever been an outbreak of bells disappearing from bicyles in Christchurch, New Zealand over the last 60 years ;)


good luck all - i look forward to hearing about the COP results
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site  http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
« Last Edit: June 04, 2008, 01:41:50 AM by nul-points »

Offline b0rg13

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #137 on: June 04, 2008, 03:42:13 AM »
i spent 2 years in CHCH , and my bell was never stolen, interesting pic in the above post, hes got three hands!. :o

Offline nul-points

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #138 on: June 04, 2008, 08:52:34 AM »
@ b0rg
> ...interesting pic in the above post, hes got three hands!

that's what Evolution does to you after 75 years playing the saxophone ;)

Offline nul-points

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #139 on: June 04, 2008, 09:45:44 AM »
]...being serious here - just for a minute...

NerzhDishual uses 'bells'  and blows a 15(?)A fuse - Davey (supposedly) uses 'bells' and shows 2.5A

this causes me to think that vibration plays a different part altogether...

what if the vibration is actually disconnecting the loose electrode for part of the mains cycle?

it would then be acting like a random mechanical SCR - probably reduce the average current ... and maybe do some interesting things with the effect of the rise & fall edges of the switched voltage

in the news video, Davey admits he's holding something back

what? he using radioactive bicycle bells?!  ;)

no, i don't think it matters if he uses bells or his dog's food tins - the important feature is that they're LOOSE (see how many times its mentioned in the Patent)

that would also re-inforce the thinking that the resonant frequency of the bell itself is unimportant - not easy to transfer acoustic energy into something loose - a spring needs to be anchored somewhere if you want it to oscillate/resonate (unless it has sufficient fexibility to its own mass ratio)

...just an idea, i'll shut up now :)
sandy
« Last Edit: June 04, 2008, 10:18:06 AM by nul-points »

Offline storre

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #140 on: June 04, 2008, 01:35:26 PM »
Sandy, did you see the picture where he is shown holding a bell and playing a G on a piano. A G would also correspond to an octave harmonic of 50Hz. I think there is a connection between mains frequency and audio frequency. Is it possible, especially if the bell naturally vibrates at at a doubling of the frequency? 100Hz, 200Hz, 400Hz etc.?

Offline NewAge

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #141 on: June 04, 2008, 01:59:05 PM »
]in the news video, Davey admits he's holding something back

what? he using radioactive bicycle bells?!  ;)

no, i don't think it matters if he uses bells or his dog's food tins - the important feature is that they're LOOSE (see how many times its mentioned in the Patent)
There is a strong possibility that this simple heating toy is a key to Stan Mayer super-efficient electrolizer.
See http://merlib.org/files/pgfed/D14.pdf page 11:
"

Offline nul-points

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #142 on: June 04, 2008, 03:02:35 PM »
hi Storre

yes, i did see that pic - i believe that Davey, as a sax player, knows well that a 'bell' tuned to the pitch of 'G' is a close harmonic of 50Hz (in the same way that i, as a bass player know that the frequency of my low-E string is around 41 or 42 Hz)

however, having seen all the evidence (the patent, the various accounts Davey has given to different people, his claim to have purposefully witheld some info in his accounts, etc) i think Davey either believes in his own mind - or wants the public to believe (because, at 92, he's still hoping someone will buy into his invention) - that by acoustically tuning one of the 'bells' (and it's made clear in accounts that it's only one) to the mains freq. then this is an important part of the device's operation

i think it's either an intentional (for 'commercial' reasons, not with malice), or an unintentional, half-truth - somehow the vibration IS important - just not in the way he's describing it

the only piece of information he hasn't disclosed in any public interviews is clearly shown in the Patent to be a physical looseness of all electrodes apart from the central rod & the outer earthing tube

the Patent is clear that any number of electrodes are suitable - no mention whatsoever about important dimension relationships - other than varying the gap to change the heating produced - and in any case, using a number of concentric tubes all the same length will produce an arbitrary range of natural frequencies - they're loose - yes, they could possibly be vibrated by the mains - but it's not likely they're all tuned to it

it's just as possible that any vibration, which may or may not be important to the whole operation, is caused by the vigourous activity of the steam/water boiling

in addition, i believe that the outer earthing-sphere shown on his later hand-held boilers, which we see in action in the video & photos, are formed by two half-spheres welded (or soft-soldered, perhaps) together

i believe this would be a difficult (but not impossible) job to do around two inner concentric 'bells' and therefore i suspect that on these later models he may have reverted to a central rod for the 'live' electrode, a LOOSELY attached tube for the middle 'Neutral' electrode, all enclosed by the protective earthed-sphere which doubles as a 'jacket' to contain the heating water temporarily to improve efficiency until it's expelled by expansion & steam pressure


i was interested to find, just now on Google, a link to a company, called Davey, in Australia that makes industrial & consumer water-related products - including a Spa/Pool heater. coincidence? i don't know

http://www.davey.com.au/products/product_image_check.aspx?id=223&catid=241&app=Pool+and+Spa

they say they've been in business for 70 years (from about the time, or just before, that Peter Davey would have gone off to the UK to be a Spitfire pilot) - interesting!

aha! they have a Spa/Pool water heater ... does that ring any 'bells'?  :)

unfortunately not - its gas powered!

so, if, possibly, Davey is related to that business - and he's known about a working electric water heater since the 40's (and an undeniably efficient one at that) - why use gas?!


i say:
 - build one
 - use 'bells'/cones/tubes, whatever
 - leave one or more internal electrodes loose
 - don't bother about acoustic tuning
 - adjust the electrode gap for suitable heat/current ratio
 - get some results
 - vary the gap
 - check if it appears to be tunable towards OU
 - tighten the loose electrode(s)
 - retest
 - compare
 - report back

throw me another tinny & fire up the Barbi - i'm done  ;D

g'day mates
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site    http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
« Last Edit: June 04, 2008, 03:57:25 PM by nul-points »

Offline Sprocket

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #143 on: June 04, 2008, 07:26:12 PM »
.....
however, having seen all the evidence (the patent, the various accounts Davey has given to different people, his claim to have purposefully witheld some info in his accounts, etc) i think Davey either believes in his own mind - or wants the public to believe (because, at 92, he's still hoping someone will buy into his invention) - that by acoustically tuning one of the 'bells' (and it's made clear in accounts that it's only one) to the mains freq. then this is an important part of the device's operation.....

This would seem at odds with what Dr. Jan Pajak says on his site - it would appear that things didn't end well for Mr. Davey, enless someone has information to the contrary...

Quote
..... In 1998 I returned to New Zealand from my bread-seeking globetrotting. Of course, each time I managed to visit Christchurch I attempted to also contact Mr Davey. But in the place where his home stood previously, I found only a large pile of broken wooden planks mixed with broken bricks. It looked as if several heavy tanks rolled through his home. In turn no even a trace of him. I also was unable to locate anyone, who would know what actually happened to him. In turn after 1999, as I explained this in subsection A4 of monograph [1/4], it has not been in my fate to let me go to Christchurch again. By now the Davey's telekinetic heater is completely forgotten in New Zealand. It was no any help to it, that the energy efficiency of this heater was proven at the miraculous level of many times above 100%. In turn the fate of the inventor himself remains unknown to me – if anyone out there is aware what happened to him, please let me know. When I talked to Mr Davey the last time, I promised him to publish the description of his heater and the story of his lifetime battles, so that perhaps someone else picks up his fight and puts this miraculous heater into mass production. In this way his almost 50 years of suffering and his brilliant invention would not be wasted, and would start to work for the good of our civilisation. This web page is my fulfilment of that old promise.

Offline nul-points

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #144 on: June 04, 2008, 08:06:28 PM »
hi Sprocket

so i guess you haven't watched the more recent NZ news video where they visited him in his home and he demonstrated his handheld 'boiler'? or read the web copy of the NZ paper article with recent photos of him, aged 92?

i seem to remember reading he was born 1916 - if so, that would place the NZ paper article this year

i also seem to remember reading a 'follow-up' to those accounts you've just quoted where the Polish gentleman explained that 'Powers of Evil' had since then travelled back in time and rebuilt Davey's house

i don't know what they drink in Poland but i'm going to get myself a couple of bottles for New Year!

be well, friends
sandy

Offline Sprocket

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #145 on: June 04, 2008, 10:07:09 PM »
hi Sprocket

so i guess you haven't watched the more recent NZ news video where they visited him in his home and he demonstrated his handheld 'boiler'? or read the web copy of the NZ paper article with recent photos of him, aged 92?

i seem to remember reading he was born 1916 - if so, that would place the NZ paper article this year

i also seem to remember reading a 'follow-up' to those accounts you've just quoted where the Polish gentleman explained that 'Powers of Evil' had since then travelled back in time and rebuilt Davey's house

i don't know what they drink in Poland but i'm going to get myself a couple of bottles for New Year!

be well, friends
sandy
- well, I seem to have got things badly mixed up, chronologically speaking - I presumed this was the most up-to-date info! :D

I'm not sure if your time-travel remark was in jest, but if not, then, ahem.. we need go no further with this (with all due respect to the Polish gent.)...

Great to hear Mr. Davey is ok though!

Offline nul-points

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #146 on: June 04, 2008, 11:39:26 PM »
hi Sprocket - yes, great news that Mr Davey is still with us, still boiling water in his own very individual way, and can still play a saxophone at 92 - i'm very envious as i'm only about 60% of his age and already i can sense that arthritis will be stopping my bass playing within a few years  :(

as for the other rather  unusual  info i referenced - i think if you were to follow up other links relating to the gentleman you quoted you'ld find that account i mentioned - no joke

all the best
sandy

Offline NerzhDishual

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #147 on: June 05, 2008, 12:13:33 AM »

Hello Dr Ringwood,

Yes, IMO, you are a musician, with a very good sense of humor (that is not
indispensable, however, for playing bass guitar).
Your piece about Spitfire and surviving: LOL.

You also post 'faster than your shadow' (should this french expression be of any
meaning translated into English).

Yes, I have been busy. :P
I made some more experiments with some electrolysis devices.
I also made a web page about the way to 'tune' the Davey's bells (should
this be of any use, of course). BTW: my fuse was a 10 amps one.

http://freenrg.info/Sonettes_Davey/Davey_Tuning.html  <--- this page needs updates

@NewAge
I will download the wavanal software thanks for the link.

Best

Offline forest

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #148 on: June 05, 2008, 01:32:39 AM »
Hello from Poland,

Let me say about my theory which looks crazy but may be very accurate if you compare some facts.
I call it "magnetosonic motor-heater" . At this video : http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=yh_-DUKQ4Uw you see a method of converting cavitation inside water into heat. Very efficient unfortunately very tedious.
Why ? Because it's mechanical , loud and uses too much electric energy and bearings would not hold out too long.

The same problem had Nikola Tesla with AC generator - how to avoid brushes ?

Solution is obvious (for us today) - rotating magnetic fields!

Now , it's the same technic, using cavitation to heat water, but water is spinned by sound waves rotating around bells or tubes ,because of applied 2 phase current.

Here is the proof that water could be moved by rotating sound wave : http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=9JJnklJTSjw

(similar was about Tiberian bowl but I can't find it right now)

Do you see bubbles ? the same bubbles which are in motor driven cavitation heater ! now we use a finest method to speed water rotation and then bubbles blow passing through holes heating water rapidly.

Here is electrical engineer needed to analyze how it is possible to use AC current with proper cavity to accelerate water so fast


Regards
Forest

Offline nul-points

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #149 on: June 05, 2008, 09:46:09 AM »
hi NerzhDishual and forest
(nice work on the bell tuning, ND, & vids showing acoustic effects on water, forest)


now we're cooking!!  :)


have you heard of sonoluminescence?

there was some discussion a few years back, i believe, that sonoluminescence may be an indicator of zero-point energy activity - an anomalous release of energy, caused by acoustic pressure

sonoluminescence (SL) is the generation of light from sound - it can be generated in water - difficult to re-create under lab conditions but can be observed apparently in some naturally ocurring situations like the bow-wake on a fast & powerful boat (so, no use using the seagull 1/4 HP here, ND!)

i found a site which shows how to recreate SL in the lab - quite involved - but check out this statement:

 "...the actual mechanism by which sound is converted to light remains elusive, not least because of the difficulty in measuring the conditions inside a pulsating bubble whose diameter is measured in micro-meters. It is generally agreed that the adiabatic compression of the bubble leads to very high interior temperatures..."


the experiment i found was generating SL in single bubbles using a frequency of 25kHz - BUT - this frequency is only decided by the dimensions of the glass jar containing the water and the speed of sound in water (around 1500m/s apparently)

a standing wave is created in the water using sound; a bubble is introduced into the water artificially; the standing wave forces the bubble to the centre of the container; with the necessary level of sound input (about 1W into a couple of piezo transducers) SL could be caused inside the bubble

the SL effect worked best when the water was de-gassed - and one way of de-gassing water is to boil it!


soooo - did Peter Davey (or someone in his family, if it was them who were already involved in water-related technology, back around 1940s) stumble upon an effect when working with known concentric electrode heating of water - whereby if they had some looseness in the electrodes they found an anomalous effect (eg. greater efficiency in the heating of the water?)

would be interesting to know if the water in Davey's heater produces any light when operated in the dark

the original Patent just captured the necessity for looseness to allow vibration to occur during operation (but was it vibration at mains freq.? or was it general vibration due to motion of boiling water/steam bubbles?)

then later, Peter, whilst playing his sax & noting the resonant effect of different things vibrating with different sax notes, remembers the vibration effect in the water heater & thinks to himself "maybe the loose electrodes should be tuned to the mains frequency to increase the vibration - i'll try something tuned to a harmonic of the mains freq. 50Hz - what can i use? something metal which has a very pure resonant frequency, not too big - i know, a bicycle bell"

bicycle bells start disappearing all over Christchurch, New Zealand

he knows that the heater works best when the surfaces of the concentric heater run parallel to each other, and that wouldn't work with a central rod & 1 bell, so he comes up with a design which has two bells, one 'inside' the other

he leaves at least one of the bells slightly loose, perhaps, and tries it out - it works very well

the only trouble is that he keeps putting the 'live' heater down on the wet work surface in his kitchen after boiling water and all his family & friends refuse to come & have a cup of tea with him until he makes the thing safe - so he re-designs it inside an earthed outer-sphere

BUT...
 - does he know why vibration of the electrodes is important?
 - does he know that more heat energy is output than electrical energy is input?
 - does he know whether the bells work better than tubes?
 - does he know that a bell tuned to harmonic of 50Hz (his mains freq.) works better than one which isn't?

maybe, maybe not - he doesn't discuss results

that's where overunity.com comes in - it's up to people in the forum to investigate Peter Davey's device and answer these questions


BTW  ND, 'CoolEdit' looks good - but you might like to check out a PC App called Audacity - open source freeware - very professional - no registration - no limitations (i use it to produce MP3s from my live band recordings, i'm very impressed with it)