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Author Topic: Peter Davey Heater  (Read 366465 times)

Offline ggx9

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #390 on: August 16, 2008, 09:42:42 PM »
storre posted the first of this subject on February 9, 2008. If you download the attachment of 48 pages you will find the Davey article on pages 20 and 21 of the 48 pages. At the end of the article it says only the inner bell needs to be tuned to the mains frequency of 50 HZ. The drawing in the article shows the two bells of different diameters so as to create equal separation across their radii and text stating the same requirement. The spacing is stated as 3mm (about 1/8"), though a fine adjustment is needed for "tuning". There is also reference to "resonating of the cavity between the two hemispheres". Near the end of the article there is a photo showing the device next to a coin. Unfortunately there is a third bell showing so as to confuse the issue. I don't know what this third bell is for, but I would guess that it is part of the mounting hardware. I printed out these two pages as I consider it essential reference for this project.

Richard

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #390 on: August 16, 2008, 09:42:42 PM »

Offline forest

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #391 on: August 16, 2008, 11:23:07 PM »
May I ask what would happen at resonance with inner bell ? I assume that this bell will start to oscillate mechanically (?) electrically (?), not sure how but IMHO with much higher frequency. Do you have such feeling too ? If so it may be related to Stanley Meyer device except here is AC used and no electrolysis , just heating by water molecules vibration and collisions forced by high frequency current or oscillation.

Online Paul-R

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #392 on: August 17, 2008, 03:45:35 PM »
storre posted the first of this subject on February 9, 2008. If you download the attachment of 48 pages you will find the Davey article on pages 20 and 21 of the 48 pages. At the end of the article it says only the inner bell needs to be tuned to the mains frequency of 50 HZ.
On page 20/48 of this document, it says:
"The device comprises a hemispherical resonant cavity, formed from two metallic dome shapes, both of
which resonate at 50Hz...."

As for the gap being parallel, this is all very fine, but very difficult to achieve. I suspect tha, int any first device,
it would be best to use two identical bells - if only to get up and running.

In theory, if the gap is x mm, then the outer bell should have a radius x mm larger. But how are we to
obtain a range of bells with such tolerances?

It has been suggested that we work with software sine generators because attempting to tune a bell
to a signal from the mains four octaves different is extremely hard. I had a go with one, and it's error
at 50hz (compared to mains) was 1hz; the error at 440hz (compared to a quality tuning fork) was 3hz.
This idea may well work. Aiming to tune the bell to 800, this means tuning to the software corrected
by about 5hz.
Paul.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #392 on: August 17, 2008, 03:45:35 PM »
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Offline DOCV

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Re: All My test results - myth busted
« Reply #393 on: September 24, 2008, 11:23:41 AM »
I have a full report of my test results over the past 4 months. I personally think that this heater is nothing special. perhaps this will help others to prove me wrong.
Unfortunately this forum does not allow attachments over 100kb, so go to the Davey section on the energeticforum at http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/1414-daveys-water-heater-3.html Post no. 76
 

Offline greendoor

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #394 on: September 26, 2008, 12:05:47 PM »
I've been sitting on some ideas, but I may as well donate them to the party ... it will be interesting to see the spooks rip them apart ...

There is a simple way to avoid the whole tuning issue: feedback assisted sustain.  Think Jimi Hendrix (if you're old enough to remember).  Peter Davies is a violin player, and tuning comes naturally to musicians, but it can be a bit of a foreign concept to non-musicians.  But if we modify the design and use feedback, tuning becomes unnecessary.  It's the same principle as those feedback squeals you get when a microphone is pointed at PA speakers - any sound from the speakers gets picked up by the microphone and amplified.  The resonant nodes of the room will get more of a boost than other frequencies, therefore particular frequencies grow into feedback squeals first.  Guitar players can induce feedback by point their pickups at their amp speakers.

You could have a bell of any resonant frequency, and if you fitted transducers (e.g. coils) and a power amp you could get this into resonance very easily with no tuning required. 

I've been studying Kanarev (http://guns.connect.fi/innoplaza/energy/story/Kanarev/index.html), and I believe he might have the explanation for the overunity in this device.  He states that if molecule bonds are mechanically broken, rather than thermally broken, they liberate twice as much energy - and that the extra energy comes from the vacuum.  (That's an extremely crude paraphrase by me, so don't judge him by that comment - this guy deserves serious study).  He also explains why pulsing electricity is important to free energy - and has some good experiments on heating water and liberating hydrogen with low amps - all good stuff related to this subject.

I suspect the Peter Davies device accidentally stumbled on one or more principles of heating water - and identifying the actual overunity aspect might not be so obvious - especially with the high current draw.  But i'm thinking that the mechanical breaking of water bonds from acoustic pressure waves might be the key - think sonoluminesence and cavitation effects.  Having one tuned, vibrating bell cupped inside a larger static bell would give a could compression/cavitation surface area to rip the water apart.  The 240V is probably just a brute force diversion that may not be that necessary to the process, other than it is was an easy way in the 1940's to make this happen.

It would be very interesting to get a feedback-assisted bell, with a low-wattage amp (as a guitar player, I have a little Fender 9V plastic toy amp that gives great feedback sustain with an ordinary electric guitar - and that's with just air coupling between a tiny speaker and a thin string ... with a direct mechanical link, it could really make a tuned piece of steel howl). 

The beauty of feedback is that it naturally boosts whatever resonance already exists, and compounds it.  Things could get scary out of control, like Tesla.  Even those Mythbuster clowns got some interesting resonance effects with a steel beam, and they weren't even trying to tune anything.  (In fact, I suspect they had an agenda to divert attention away from this subject). 

If you play a bass guitar in a house, you can find some notes that could do damage to your house if you allowed feedback to sustain those notes ... there is awesome energy in resonance.  So if we could use this to tear water molecule bonds apart, and if zero-point energy is involved, as Kanarev suggests, there could be some very interesting energy results.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #394 on: September 26, 2008, 12:05:47 PM »
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Offline devrimogun

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #395 on: September 26, 2008, 01:25:40 PM »
I've been sitting on some ideas, but I may as well donate them to the party ... it will be interesting to see the spooks rip them apart ...
.. there is awesome energy in resonance.  So if we could use this to tear water molecule bonds apart, and if zero-point energy is involved, as Kanarev suggests, there could be some very interesting energy results.

Congratulations. You did not get discouraged by the negative posts on this topic and continued on working.
Very interesting link that Kanarev's place. One would need to spend many weeks to study his ideas.

Interesting statement about mechanically broken molecular bonds liberating more energy. I believe it could be the physics behind the mechanical (friction) liquid heaters. We are currently trying to build a mechanical heater to heat water in a closed circuit to heat up our homes. I chose the system in the patent that I will try to attach here because of simplicity and adaptability to current heaters that heat water by burning gas and circulate inside radiators in a closed loop system by the use of a pump.

The patent pdf is 300K so I am unable to attach it here.
Holder : Wilfred J Grenier
US Patent No : 4,454,861
Title : Fluid Friction Heater
You can get it from freepatentsonline as it is expired.


Online Paul-R

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #396 on: September 26, 2008, 04:03:56 PM »
I've been sitting on some ideas, but I may as well donate them to the party ... it will be interesting to see the spooks rip them apart ...

There is a simple way to avoid the whole tuning issue: feedback assisted sustain.... 
This was proposed by me at the UK Free-Energy Conference a few weeks ago. The advantage is
that you have only to find two bells precisely in tune with each other. The disadvantage is that you
have all the amplification to deal with. Don't forget that a Hi-Fi amp, a musician's amp or PA amp
will not give you very high voltages. Pretty paltry voltages, in fact. but the idea should be good.
Since the quality of the waveform should not be critical, it would be possible to design a multi
stage crude amp for the project.
Paul.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #396 on: September 26, 2008, 04:03:56 PM »
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Online Paul-R

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #397 on: September 26, 2008, 04:06:30 PM »
duplicate

Offline DOCV

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #398 on: September 26, 2008, 10:24:55 PM »
It's not about being discouraged it's about science plain and simple. One can speculate and throw ideas around as much as you want but at the end of the day one must test these ideas out. The davey heater does not heat water any better than an element. The news item of him showing rapid boiling is only an effect. This has been recreated and efficiency is not overunity. The only person who has made claims to this is Dr Jan Pajak, but he himself has never recreated the effect. Does the Davey heat water quickly...yes by induction. Can one heat water using sound energy...maybe but is davey heating using this effect...highly unlikely.

How to test this out. Instead of tuning the bells to the mains frequency...tune the frequency to a harmonic of the bells. The science is the same only backwards. From this test (if it works) one will determine if the "audio" frequency is responsible for COP over 1 or if there is a dipole effect.

In my opinion the Davey heater has been verified and reproduced exactly as the news insert and their is NO COP of 20 infact their is no COP over 1.

If you are interested in water heaters that have potential to be highly efficient try the Eugene Frenette Patent 4143639 or the one which actually makes claims of overunity that had to be proven in order for the patent to be granted which does use a dipole effect (sorry can't find the reference right now) but it basically acts like a miniature aerial within a cavity the supposedly has a COP over 2. Once again these things need to be built in order to verify the results.   


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #398 on: September 26, 2008, 10:24:55 PM »
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Offline forest

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #399 on: September 26, 2008, 10:46:27 PM »
Interesting...What about of induction of eddy currents directly INSIDE water ? Breaking hydrogen bonds... ??

Offline DOCV

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #400 on: September 27, 2008, 12:02:13 AM »
Interesting...What about of induction of eddy currents directly INSIDE water ? Breaking hydrogen bonds... ??

I never checked for magnetic fields, but to set up an experiement to recreate eddie currents within the frame work of this heater is going to require some serious equipment. Eddie currents today is readily seen on rail/trains breaking systems.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #400 on: September 27, 2008, 12:02:13 AM »
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Offline devrimogun

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #401 on: September 27, 2008, 12:21:43 PM »

If you are interested in water heaters that have potential to be highly efficient try the Eugene Frenette Patent 4143639 or the one which actually makes claims of overunity that had to be proven in order for the patent to be granted which does use a dipole effect (sorry can't find the reference right now) but it basically acts like a miniature aerial within a cavity the supposedly has a COP over 2. Once again these things need to be built in order to verify the results.   

Thanks but Frenette is more an air (space) heater. I needed an adaptable water heater.
Grenier is perfect.
But I got curious about the other one you mentioned. More information, could you?

Offline Cap-Z-ro

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #402 on: September 27, 2008, 04:03:22 PM »
"it basically acts like a miniature aerial within a cavity the supposedly has a COP over 2."

Any clues as to where to find info on this device would be welcomed by all.
...


From my research into the Frenette or Friction heater, it can produce hot water by 3 methods.

1. Run water though the unit...replacing the captured oil.

2. Add another metal enclosure around the unit...thus creating a holding tank where the water is heated.

3. Enwrap the unit with app. 70 feet of snugly fit copper coil...with the cold entering at the bottom, and hot water exiting from the top part.

Regards...

Online Paul-R

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #403 on: September 27, 2008, 04:05:03 PM »
It's not about being discouraged it's about science plain and simple. One can speculate and throw ideas around as much as you want but at the end of the day one must test these ideas out. The davey heater does not heat water any better than an element....
Build one and prove yourself wrong.
Paul.

Offline Sprocket

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Re: Peter Davey Heater
« Reply #404 on: September 27, 2008, 05:06:02 PM »
Quote
It's not about being discouraged it's about science plain and simple. One can speculate and throw ideas around as much as you want but at the end of the day one must test these ideas out. The davey heater does not heat water any better than an element....

This statement is untrue, as at worst, the Davey heater will act as an "Electrode Boiler", which are known to be up to 99.9% efficient - ie. more effecient than "element heaters".

I have experimented with a few builds and can state definitively that Davey heaters do boils water much faster than at least one element heater - ie. my kettle!  The problem with this kind of experimentation is that it can get expensive, electricity-wise!  I was recently thinking though, if 'resonance' is the 'secret', then experimenting with pure distilled water would be the way to go - a Davey/Electrode heater would use no electricity 'normally', though neither will it boil the distilled water!  However this lack of activity could be looked on as a benefit, 'cos if resonance is the answer, current would only start flowing in appreciable amounts as the heater was 'tuned' to the 'sweet-spot' - LC-circuit-wise!

 

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