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Author Topic: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?  (Read 194180 times)

Offline Mars67

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #135 on: January 16, 2015, 07:06:14 AM »
Hi.

I've realised that it is a 50 Ohm 5W resistor. I have a 56 Ohm 5W resistor. What will the impact be on the output of the circuit?

Thanks

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #135 on: January 16, 2015, 07:06:14 AM »

Offline Groundloop

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #136 on: January 17, 2015, 11:29:44 AM »
Hi Groundloop

Thank you for the circuit and all the information you have been providing. I am in the process of getting the necessary parts to build this charger with the air-core coils. I have some larger batteries that I want to try and condition. As I am quite a newbie I have a few silly questions to ask if you will pardon my ignorance.

1. On the first circuit you posted I assume that the 220nF Cap must be 1000v too?
2. I do not have access to an oscilloscope so was wondering if there is a way to ensure that one connects the coils the correct way around from the onset.
3. What is the resistance of the 50R 5W resistor. 5 Ohms or 50 Ohms?
4. What would be the easiest way to twist the three 18 gauge wires together?
5. How do I know to what value to set the pot initially?
6. Will a 9v 1A DC power supply be sufficient for the circuit?
7. Out of curiosity. What causes the circuit to self oscillate?

Thank you

Mars67,

1. The voltage rating on the 220nF capacitor must be large enough to tolerate the bias input plus the trigger coil pulses.
    You can use almost any type of non-polarized capacitor here. A 100 Volt capacitor will do fine.

2. You can build the circuit, and then connect a 12 Volt 10 Watt car lamp to the output. If the circuit is oscillating then
    the car lamp will light. If not, then swap the ends of the trigger coil (L1).

3. The 50R resistor is 50  Ohm. You can also use a 47  Ohm 5 Watt resistor here.

4. There is one easy way to twist the wires together. You can make a disk out of laminated wood and drill three holes in the disk.
    In the center of the disk you drill one hole for a 6mm bolt. You then cut your three enameled copper wire to length, thread the
    wires through the disk and fasten the wires to a three or door knob or something. You then spin the disk with a drill and walk
    backwards away from the door knob etc. Now the three wires will gradually be twisted together.

5. Set the pot to its highest resistance at first start up.

6. 9 Volt 1 Ampere will run the circuit. But if you turn the pot-meter resistance too much down, then the power supply may get warm.

7. The circuit will oscillate because you use a active element with amplification, a transistor, and coils.
    Read more about oscillators here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_oscillator

GL.

Offline Groundloop

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #137 on: January 17, 2015, 11:35:21 AM »
Hi.

I've realised that it is a 50 Ohm 5W resistor. I have a 56 Ohm 5W resistor. What will the impact be on the output of the circuit?

Thanks

Mars67,

You can use your 56  Ohm resistor. The impact on the circuit will be almost none.
(Actually a little lower bias current to the transistor on low pot-meter setting, but not important.)

GL.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #137 on: January 17, 2015, 11:35:21 AM »
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Offline Mars67

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #138 on: January 19, 2015, 06:33:04 AM »
Hey Groundloop
Thank you for your prompt response and the good information as usual. I have ordered 18 Gauge wire and am waiting for the supplier to get stock. As soon as I have that I will start the build.

It is funny how one can know something about electronics and yet not know anything about something as fundamental as ocscillators. Thanks for the link. Another puzzle piece fell into place for me.

I am very curious to see the outcome.

Offline Groundloop

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #139 on: January 19, 2015, 08:00:37 PM »
Hey Groundloop
Thank you for your prompt response and the good information as usual. I have ordered 18 Gauge wire and am waiting for the supplier to get stock. As soon as I have that I will start the build.

It is funny how one can know something about electronics and yet not know anything about something as fundamental as ocscillators. Thanks for the link. Another puzzle piece fell into place for me.

I am very curious to see the outcome.

Mars67,

Regarding point 4 in my above post. You also need to have three wood pegs on the plate that
holds three bobbins for the three copper wires, so that the copper wire can be feed from the
bobbins as the plate is rotated. Attached is a simple drawing that may show my idea. So while
you are waiting for parts then maybe you can build the coil winder disk?

GL.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #139 on: January 19, 2015, 08:00:37 PM »
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Offline Mars67

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #140 on: January 20, 2015, 08:38:48 AM »
Thanks Groundloop

That is a great idea! I was thinking along the same lines but was worried if the insulation on the wires might not be damaged. I'm not sure how easily that could happen. I was thinking of mounting the bobbins with the shaft around which the bobbing spins horizontally to the plane of the disk with the feed end directly over the hole to minimise the risk of chafing. I just don't know how I am going to ensure enough tension on the bobbins for controlled feed. Perhaps use small machine screws as shafts and just tighten them. I will experiment with some ideas and post here. I also need to find something to use as bobbins.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 02:06:55 PM by Mars67 »

Offline Mars67

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #141 on: January 26, 2015, 11:24:11 AM »
I made a wire winder out of Plexiglas that I had lying around. I mounted the bobbins with the axis vertically to the plane of the disk as suggested by Groundloop because the disc is a little too small to make it practical and I was in a hurry to get going. As I suspected I was going to have some issues with feeding the wire off the bobbins and it was the case so I ended up feeding a meter or two and then winding it up with my battery drill/screwdriver as I was going along. I had the drill set to screwdriver setting. You need to do this whilst concentrating on the tightness of the winds and trying to keep you fingers out the way of the spinning bobbins. The end product, whilst not professional, should work ok.

I did not know what to use and decided to try using the spools solder wire is supplied on. It turns out that 78 meters of 1mm Magnetic wire fills up the spool almost completely. I simply measured off 78 meters of wire and then ran it onto the spool with my drill. I found that the spool I took the most trouble to roll on the wire slowly and neatly also fed the best in my spinning tool.

I then rolled the twisted wire onto a 2lt soda bottle with an od of 100mm by hand. This was quick but did not come out as neatly as I would have liked. It would be better to make some spooling tool like another post in this thread. I think it should be ok though. I made off the ends of the coils and tested them for continuity. The coils are fine with no short. Unfortunately I do not have a means to measure the inductance of the coils.

I decided on 75 meters as per another post on this thread but used 78 meters to account for the wire shrinking due to winding it up. It ended up a little over 75 meters. The twisted wire only made 184 turns and not 200 as specified. Perhaps because I rolled it a little too thick as the od is slightly over 120mm. I wonder what impact this will have on the circuit?

The only thing I still need is a heat sink for the TO3 transistor and then I can test the circuit. My supplier was out of stock. I am going to build the circuit this week and will hopefully be able to test it soon.

Here are some pics of the tool as well as the completed coil.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #141 on: January 26, 2015, 11:24:11 AM »
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Offline Groundloop

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #142 on: January 26, 2015, 08:16:15 PM »
I made a wire winder out of Plexiglas that I had lying around. I mounted the bobbins with the axis vertically to the plane of the disk as suggested by Groundloop because the disc is a little too small to make it practical and I was in a hurry to get going. As I suspected I was going to have some issues with feeding the wire off the bobbins and it was the case so I ended up feeding a meter or two and then winding it up with my battery drill/screwdriver as I was going along. I had the drill set to screwdriver setting. You need to do this whilst concentrating on the tightness of the winds and trying to keep you fingers out the way of the spinning bobbins. The end product, whilst not professional, should work ok.

I did not know what to use and decided to try using the spools solder wire is supplied on. It turns out that 78 meters of 1mm Magnetic wire fills up the spool almost completely. I simply measured off 78 meters of wire and then ran it onto the spool with my drill. I found that the spool I took the most trouble to roll on the wire slowly and neatly also fed the best in my spinning tool.

I then rolled the twisted wire onto a 2lt soda bottle with an od of 100mm by hand. This was quick but did not come out as neatly as I would have liked. It would be better to make some spooling tool like another post in this thread. I think it should be ok though. I made off the ends of the coils and tested them for continuity. The coils are fine with no short. Unfortunately I do not have a means to measure the inductance of the coils.

I decided on 75 meters as per another post on this thread but used 78 meters to account for the wire shrinking due to winding it up. It ended up a little over 75 meters. The twisted wire only made 184 turns and not 200 as specified. Perhaps because I rolled it a little too thick as the od is slightly over 120mm. I wonder what impact this will have on the circuit?

The only thing I still need is a heat sink for the TO3 transistor and then I can test the circuit. My supplier was out of stock. I am going to build the circuit this week and will hopefully be able to test it soon.

Here are some pics of the tool as well as the completed coil.

Mars67,

A very nice build to solve the coil twisting problem. :-)

The circuit is not critical in any way and your 184 turns will do just fine in the circuit.

Looking forward to see you completed circuit.

Regards,
GL.

Offline Mars67

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #143 on: January 29, 2015, 09:39:38 AM »
I finished building the circuit on Tuesday and eventually had time to test it last night. Success!!! Here are some pictures of my progress to date.

I then tested it the charger on a 6V battery that just to see if it charges. It is an old battery that will not hold a charge above 5.7 V and will be the first one I am going to test the desulphating process on.

I am using a 15v/3A Lab supply and was surpised to feel that it was getting quite hot after about 15 minutes (the large heatsink at the back was quite hot to the touch even if not hot enough to burn) although I have never actually kept it on for more than a few minutes at a time. The diodes were cold and the transistor barely perceptibly hotter than ambient temperature. The pot was feeling warmer to the touch. Is this normal? I set the voltage to 9V and then adjusted the pot until it was indicating 0.6 Amps and then left it there. I noticed that the voltage gradually increased ever so slightly.

Some other observations that may be useful to someone. I could only buy the magnetic wire by weight so had absolutely no idea how much wire to buy. Three lengths of 1mm/18# wire (77 to 78 * 3 = 234 meters) weighs 1.62 Kilograms (3.56 pounds). At least this can provide a guideline to someone who can only buy the wire by weight.

Another was that when I tied off the ends of the coils I left one side longer than the other for easy identification. I found that the trigger coil had to be connected to the opposite of the other two coils. Is this a rule of thumb?

I did not have a 10W 12 lamp so used two 5 Watt lamps in series.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #143 on: January 29, 2015, 09:39:38 AM »
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Offline Groundloop

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #144 on: January 30, 2015, 03:28:26 AM »
I finished building the circuit on Tuesday and eventually had time to test it last night. Success!!! Here are some pictures of my progress to date.

I then tested it the charger on a 6V battery that just to see if it charges. It is an old battery that will not hold a charge above 5.7 V and will be the first one I am going to test the desulphating process on.

I am using a 15v/3A Lab supply and was surpised to feel that it was getting quite hot after about 15 minutes (the large heatsink at the back was quite hot to the touch even if not hot enough to burn) although I have never actually kept it on for more than a few minutes at a time. The diodes were cold and the transistor barely perceptibly hotter than ambient temperature. The pot was feeling warmer to the touch. Is this normal? I set the voltage to 9V and then adjusted the pot until it was indicating 0.6 Amps and then left it there. I noticed that the voltage gradually increased ever so slightly.

Some other observations that may be useful to someone. I could only buy the magnetic wire by weight so had absolutely no idea how much wire to buy. Three lengths of 1mm/18# wire (77 to 78 * 3 = 234 meters) weighs 1.62 Kilograms (3.56 pounds). At least this can provide a guideline to someone who can only buy the wire by weight.

Another was that when I tied off the ends of the coils I left one side longer than the other for easy identification. I found that the trigger coil had to be connected to the opposite of the other two coils. Is this a rule of thumb?

I did not have a 10W 12 lamp so used two 5 Watt lamps in series.

Mars67,

Glad you got the circuit running. :-)

The circuit does make "a lot of noise" on the plus input line. Use a large electrolytic capacitor
over the plus and minus of your lab power supply. This will probably reduce the heating in
the power supply. 1000uF 25 Volt or thereabout.

The pot-meter should not be very warm.
What is the wattage rating on your pot-meter?

0,6 Amp at 9 Volt input is OK. Lots of copper wire in an air-core, yes.
Trigger coil ends is opposite to the power coil ends, is correct.

The 12 Volt lamp is only used to test if there is a output for those that do not have a o-scope.
So two 12 Volt 5 Watt lamps in series or in parallel is OK for testing.

GL.

Offline Mars67

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #145 on: January 30, 2015, 05:57:52 AM »
Thanks for the feedback Groundloop. I asked for a 3.5W pot but I am not sure that it actually is. I picked up a 5W wirewound pot yesterday but did not get time to test it or the large cap over the output of the power supply last night.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #145 on: January 30, 2015, 05:57:52 AM »
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Offline Groundloop

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #146 on: January 30, 2015, 06:21:59 AM »
Thanks for the feedback Groundloop. I asked for a 3.5W pot but I am not sure that it actually is. I picked up a 5W wirewound pot yesterday but did not get time to test it or the large cap over the output of the power supply last night.

Mars67,

A 5 Watt wire wound pot-meter is a good choice to use. I did look at the picture you posted
and your first pot-meter looks like a 1/4 Watt type. So use your new 5 Watt pot-meter.

I also did download the manual for your power supply. The manual clearly state that the power supply
will get hot on higher power settings. So I guess that 15 Volt 1 Ampere is a high power setting for this
type of supply. Manual attached.

GL.

Offline Mars67

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #147 on: February 03, 2015, 08:29:30 AM »
I built the circuit on Veroboard and incorporated a 9V regulator. I also placed a 1000uF 25V cap over the output of the Voltage Regulator. I cannot really tell if it made a difference to the temperature of the power supply. The heat sink on the LM 7809 goes up to about 63 Celsius and I also had to place a small heat sink on D5 which goes up to about 55C. I'm not sure if that is too hot but I included a 12v fan which keeps everything nice and cool. The 5W wire wound pot also gets a little warm on the side but stays at that temperature. T1 does not get hot at all.

I am using a 12V 2A Laptop power supply. It seems to work really well.

Another question I have is that there is a high pitched whine coming from T1. It is not always there and is not very loud. The pitch seems to go up as one reduces the current drawn by the circuit i.e. as one increases the resistance on the pot. Is this normal?

Offline Groundloop

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #148 on: February 03, 2015, 09:04:16 AM »
I built the circuit on Veroboard and incorporated a 9V regulator. I also placed a 1000uF 25V cap over the output of the Voltage Regulator. I cannot really tell if it made a difference to the temperature of the power supply. The heat sink on the LM 7809 goes up to about 63 Celsius and I also had to place a small heat sink on D5 which goes up to about 55C. I'm not sure if that is too hot but I included a 12v fan which keeps everything nice and cool. The 5W wire wound pot also gets a little warm on the side but stays at that temperature. T1 does not get hot at all.

I am using a 12V 2A Laptop power supply. It seems to work really well.

Another question I have is that there is a high pitched whine coming from T1. It is not always there and is not very loud. The pitch seems to go up as one reduces the current drawn by the circuit i.e. as one increases the resistance on the pot. Is this normal?

Mars67,

First, measure the voltage out of your Laptop power supply. Most laptop power supplies (than I'm aware of) is closer
to 19 Volt output. So if you is drawing close to 1 Ampere through your linear voltage regulator (LM7809) at 19 Volt
input, then you are at the maximum of what that regulator can handle. What is the exact type marking of that regulator
you are using?

It seems to me that too much base bias current is going to your transistor since the pot meter gets hot.
You large 5 Watt wire wound variable resistor should not be hot at all. Please use you Ohm meter and verify what
resistance the pot meter have. Also measure your two resistor values. Are the resistors in parallel or series? Switch
off the power to the circuit before measuring.

D5 should not get hot. I think you are having too much bias current running through the base of your transistor,
thus too much current going through the power coil.

The high pitched whine from the coil is normal.

GL.

Offline Mars67

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #149 on: February 03, 2015, 02:29:37 PM »
Hi Groundloop

Thanks yet again for your input. I am not sure about the connection of the pot as indicated on your circuit diagram. Again please excuse my ignorance. The pot has three connectors. The sweeper is in the middle. At the moment the 50 Ohm Resistor (2 x 100 Ohm 5W resistors connected in parallel) is connected in serial from the one connector on the side of the pot to the sweeper. The sweeper is then connected to L2. Should the two outside connectors i.e. the full 500 Ohms be in serial with the 50 Ohm with the sweeper going to L2? I will measure all the values and get back to you this evening.

 

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