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Author Topic: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?  (Read 199560 times)

Offline SeaMonkey

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #120 on: June 16, 2014, 09:58:12 PM »
Hello Seamonkey,

Thanks for the info. But i will like to ask why you added magnesium sulphate solution.  will only distill water not do?

Yes, distilled water is all that is needed.

I've been evaluating the use of Magnesium Sulfate as a
battery additive for a couple of years now.  I add it to all
of my automobile batteries when topping off the water
level in the cells and now add it to my sealed batteries
when they're in need of rejuvenation and water.

The Magnesium Sulfate raises the level of sulfate ion
in solution in the electrolyte which helps to keep the
lead sulfate which forms on the plates insoluble and
therefore it stays on the plates instead of going into
solution.  It also increases slightly the conductivity of
the electrolyte to assist charging and rejuvenation.

I prepare a saturated solution of Magnesium Sulfate
with distilled water and add it to the batteries as
necessary.

The two 12 Volt 8 Ampere Hour batteries that I've been
most recently rejuvenating were removed from a scooter
where they'd been sitting unused for at least two years.
So far they're now showing near normal charging voltage
and are able to power a load for several hours at a low
rate of discharge.  Their internal resistance is still too
great for powering any loads at a high current level
so this probably means that there is still considerable
sulfation in the plates.  When I first began battery
rejuvenation about 12 years ago certain heavily sulfated
batteries took more than two months of continuous
pulsing to restore maximum capacity.  The circuit I used
back then was very low power.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #120 on: June 16, 2014, 09:58:12 PM »

Offline SeaMonkey

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #121 on: June 16, 2014, 10:05:16 PM »
The one thing to watch out for is if too much lead has fallen from the plates and built-up at the bottom of any of the cells, then it can short out that cell.  At a convenient point between cycles you might tip the battery up at a low angle: say 5 to 10 degrees and let it set and check the terminal voltage from time to time.  If it drops by about one cell's worth, then the desulfation will only help for a short time as you are on the verge of permanent battery death.

Yes, I've experienced those unexpectedly occurring "shorts" in
the cells when working with several old automotive batteries.
Just as it looks like its about to begin recovery one or more of
the cells suddenly develop "shorts."  Once they've reached that
degree of deterioration all they're good for is "cores'" when
exchanging them for batteries in better health.

Offline SeaMonkey

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #122 on: June 22, 2014, 08:40:25 AM »
One of the sealed 12 Volt 8 Ampere Hour batteries
seems to have developed a problem in one cell.

The battery can be charged to 14.4 Volts but when
left to sit for several days the battery voltage drops
to 10.8 Volts.  One cell apparently has some resistance
between the plates which is self-discharging the cell
rather rapidly.

These problems never seem to clear with sealed batteries.

I'll continue pulsing it for several more days to see what
happens.  Perhaps I'll perform surgery on it to examine the
bad cell and discover precisely what has happened.

Then, maybe not.

The other battery is responding normally thus far.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #122 on: June 22, 2014, 08:40:25 AM »
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Offline Paul-R

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #123 on: June 24, 2014, 04:26:42 PM »
I had hoped that this thread was about replacing lead acid batteries with capacitors.

Is anyone working on creating a capacitor of capacity comparable to a 12V 60a BATTY?

Offline free4every1

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #124 on: September 01, 2014, 10:17:12 PM »
@groundloop
i noticed rodelu made a coil with twisted wire .
i don't see you mention twisting the wire in your first posting of the battery charger.
Is it really necessary to do this ?

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #124 on: September 01, 2014, 10:17:12 PM »
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Offline mscoffman

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #125 on: September 03, 2014, 04:52:58 AM »
I had hoped that this thread was about replacing lead acid batteries with capacitors.

Is anyone working on creating a capacitor of capacity comparable to a 12V 60a BATTY?


User lasersaber at laserhacker.com did it with supercapacitors. See his vids at youtube.com as well.
Starting power is excellent but Ah capacity of supercapacitors rating is well below that of the
acid/lead battery. Might be workable with one of those primary/secondary battery dual diodes.


---


Twisting wire would make difference only at rf frequencies. Twisting wire at low frequencies on this device
would be a waste of wire.


:S:MarkSCoffman


Offline Groundloop

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #126 on: September 03, 2014, 02:54:05 PM »
@groundloop
i noticed rodelu made a coil with twisted wire .
i don't see you mention twisting the wire in your first posting of the battery charger.
Is it really necessary to do this ?

If you look at the first post and drawing, then you will see that I recommended a bifilar air core coil.
My understanding at that time was that a bifilar coil was twisted together. A perfect square pulse
is composed of many frequencies, even ones in high MHz range. Since the wires is close together,
when twisted, then you get a lot of capacitive coupling between the three coils. This makes, for some
unknown reason to me, a better running oscillator and better performance of the circuit.

GL.

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #126 on: September 03, 2014, 02:54:05 PM »
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Offline Paul-R

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #127 on: September 03, 2014, 03:14:39 PM »

User lasersaber at laserhacker.com did it with supercapacitors. See his vids at youtube.com as well.

acid/lead battery. Might be workable with one of those primary/secondary battery dual diodes.

Thanks. ... and, as a bonus, it looks as if we get to convert the fans from office fans into helicopters!
(I have a stack of these sky blue fellas since I find the motors useful).

Offline Richdes

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #128 on: September 03, 2014, 05:40:22 PM »
Hey GL I have playing with this circuit for long time with some god and bad results. I have burn many transistors now I m waiting for superpower transistor 2SC5570 winch is 1700v 56A peak current and 100ns fast switching but now I have some ideas to get fast desulphation process like to make a step up air coil transformer with 9 turns #4 magnet wire in primary and 200 turns for secondary windings as you teach us in your circuit my goal is tuning exactly 3.26mhz on primary and induct that freq in secondary with high volt spikes what do you think about it Groundloop.. 

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #128 on: September 03, 2014, 05:40:22 PM »
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Offline Groundloop

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #129 on: September 03, 2014, 11:04:38 PM »
Hey GL I have playing with this circuit for long time with some god and bad results. I have burn many transistors now I m waiting for superpower transistor 2SC5570 winch is 1700v 56A peak current and 100ns fast switching but now I have some ideas to get fast desulphation process like to make a step up air coil transformer with 9 turns #4 magnet wire in primary and 200 turns for secondary windings as you teach us in your circuit my goal is tuning exactly 3.26mhz on primary and induct that freq in secondary with high volt spikes what do you think about it Groundloop..

Richdes,

The power transistor will burn if you run the circuit with no output load. One way to protect the transistor
against over voltage is to put a Transient Suppressor over the collector to the emitter. EPCOS has many
good Transient Suppressors. Select one that has a voltage rating below the maximum SOA of the transistor,
but still high enough to get high voltage "spikes" on the output. So for your 1700 volt transistor
the Transient Suppressor should kick in at around 1000 volt or so. Also use a good heat sink on the transistor. The 2SC5570 transistor will probably do a good job in the circuit. Why 3,6MHz? Do you plan to "hit" the
battery resonance point?

GL.

Offline Richdes

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #130 on: September 04, 2014, 03:09:44 PM »
Yes I m trying to hit the battery with the high voltage spikes at the resonance frequency of the sulfate the transistors what I burned was just 600v rated and yes sometimes my circuit run without load and burned it for that reason I will get 1700v transistor the spikes will never burn it. by the way you say that this circuit runs on several mhz?. I read the frequency with a multimeter that read till 30mhz and just I can read with your large coil just several khz. so I  guess that you must read several mhz in the crest of the spikes? But I cant read the frequency there, cause I don't have scope. In  my tests with a few tuns is the only way to get in the range of mhz for that reason now I m thinking 9 turns for primary 200 turns for secondary (step up transformer) to get the rigth frequ
 

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #130 on: September 04, 2014, 03:09:44 PM »
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Offline Groundloop

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #131 on: September 04, 2014, 04:30:35 PM »
Yes I m trying to hit the battery with the high voltage spikes at the resonance frequency of the sulfate the transistors what I burned was just 600v rated and yes sometimes my circuit run without load and burned it for that reason I will get 1700v transistor the spikes will never burn it. by the way you say that this circuit runs on several mhz?. I read the frequency with a multimeter that read till 30mhz and just I can read with your large coil just several khz. so I  guess that you must read several mhz in the crest of the spikes? But I cant read the frequency there, cause I don't have scope. In  my tests with a few tuns is the only way to get in the range of mhz for that reason now I m thinking 9 turns for primary 200 turns for secondary (step up transformer) to get the rigth frequ

Richdes,

The actual fundamental frequency of the circuit is low, in the KHz area, but as you say, the leading edge
of the pulse is sharp and that creates many over harmonics frequencies. You are also correct when you say
you need fewer turns on the primary coil to get higher frequencies. Good luck in you research.

GL.

Offline Jes114

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Circuit Running properly?
« Reply #132 on: December 12, 2014, 09:08:25 AM »
Hi Groundloop,

Firstly thank you for posting this circuit, I was waiting to build one for a long time and when I saw this one I went for it.
I have a few questions though please because I am not sure it is working correctly:

1- I did not twist the 1mm wires together before winding them on a 100mm former, I didn't read that I needed that so I wound them just together; will this be enough do you think?
2- the first battery I tried is a 12V 9AH sealed Lead acid which has been dry for a long time: I opened the caps and added distilled water twice before connecting it to the charger. Voltage was at 2.77 and remained static after it was connected for an hour or so; is this right behaviour?
3- The charger is being fed by a bench power supply, currently at 9V, drawing 0.74A and the BUX80 is only slightly warm; is there a way to find out for sure if it is oscillating without an oscilloscope? The closest I have is a frequency measuring multimeter

I checked the circuit carefully and it looks ok, I even labelled the coil ends to make sure the 3 ends at top of circuit are all from the same side of it, ie they're not swapped.

Thank you for your help.

Offline Groundloop

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Re: Circuit Running properly?
« Reply #133 on: December 17, 2014, 02:59:35 PM »
Hi Groundloop,

Firstly thank you for posting this circuit, I was waiting to build one for a long time and when I saw this one I went for it.
I have a few questions though please because I am not sure it is working correctly:

1- I did not twist the 1mm wires together before winding them on a 100mm former, I didn't read that I needed that so I wound them just together; will this be enough do you think?
2- the first battery I tried is a 12V 9AH sealed Lead acid which has been dry for a long time: I opened the caps and added distilled water twice before connecting it to the charger. Voltage was at 2.77 and remained static after it was connected for an hour or so; is this right behaviour?
3- The charger is being fed by a bench power supply, currently at 9V, drawing 0.74A and the BUX80 is only slightly warm; is there a way to find out for sure if it is oscillating without an oscilloscope? The closest I have is a frequency measuring multimeter

I checked the circuit carefully and it looks ok, I even labelled the coil ends to make sure the 3 ends at top of circuit are all from the same side of it, ie they're not swapped.

Thank you for your help.

Hi Jes114,

Sorry, I did not see this post before now. Your coil will probably do fine without the twisting.

Connect a 12 Volt 10 Watt car lamp to the output to check if the circuit is oscillating. If you get
light in the bulb, then the circuit is oscillating. If, not swap the base trigger coil ends and try again.

Now you battery, if one or more cells in the battery is shorted, then trow battery into the recycle bin!

If the battery voltage really jumps up to a high voltage when you switch on the circuit, then the battery
is probably OK. Just charge the battery and watch the voltage go down when the sulphate is being
reduced in the battery. After a while (depending on the size of the battery) the voltage will reach its lower
point (normally around 11 Volt or so) and will start climbing. Continue charging until the battery is at
approx. 13,5 Volt. Then use a 12 Volt 10 Watt (or so) light bulb and drain the battery down to 12 Volt.
After that you just charge the battery up again. Repeat process at least 3 to 5 time. After that you can
use a regular (factory made) lead acid battery charger and fully charge the battery.

If you connect a lead acid battery to the circuit and the voltage does not climb, or the battery gets warm
or the battery smell funny, then the battery is defect and must be recycled.

Hope this help.

GL.

Offline Mars67

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Re: 12V 60A car battery , maybe dead?
« Reply #134 on: January 15, 2015, 09:58:48 AM »
Hi Groundloop

Thank you for the circuit and all the information you have been providing. I am in the process of getting the necessary parts to build this charger with the air-core coils. I have some larger batteries that I want to try and condition. As I am quite a newbie I have a few silly questions to ask if you will pardon my ignorance.

1. On the first circuit you posted I assume that the 220nF Cap must be 1000v too?
2. I do not have access to an oscilloscope so was wondering if there is a way to ensure that one connects the coils the correct way around from the onset.
3. What is the resistance of the 50R 5W resistor. 5 Ohms or 50 Ohms?
4. What would be the easiest way to twist the three 18 gauge wires together?
5. How do I know to what value to set the pot initially?
6. Will a 9v 1A DC power supply be sufficient for the circuit?
7. Out of curiosity. What causes the circuit to self oscillate?

Thank you

« Last Edit: January 15, 2015, 01:25:28 PM by Mars67 »

 

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