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Author Topic: Thane Heins Perepiteia.  (Read 1821359 times)

Offline hydrocontrol

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia.
« Reply #4740 on: May 23, 2009, 02:42:21 PM »
Quote from: mackensteff on May 23, 2009, 09:24:58 AM
I wanted Thane to write the rules.  No disrespect intended as I realize Thane has made sacrifices, just looking for that someone to set the world on a new path.

We all wanted Thane to write the rule. The problem is the "game" has gotten too big for just "someone" to write the rules. It will have to be "some group" and that group will have to be appear to be outside the "game" to re-write the rules. Something like an active independent group of replication builders.
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Offline hoptoad

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia.
« Reply #4741 on: May 23, 2009, 03:59:23 PM »
Quote from: i_ron on May 23, 2009, 05:41:52 AM

But as for the tech, it is nothing mysterious. See Hop toads work and even my post of 2541 page 255 pre dates Mr T's last coil setup... 27 watts out for a cost of 19 watts. This on a very non optimized set up.


Hey I_ron is there any chance of you posting a link to 2541 page 255 ? Curiosity always gets the toad. ?

27 Watts for 19 Watts (70.3 % cop) is actually a pretty good electrical transfer (transmission) from an electrical motor (with its inherent loss) coupled to a generator (with its inherent loss). Using a conventional motor and generator to transfer electrical energy is notoriously inefficient, and off the shelf systems rarely achieve greater than 60 % total system cop.

Any increase, and / or broadening of the cop over a wider output load range is a good thing.

My observation of this "acceleration" phenomena with different core materials shows that high voltages (high impedance coils) are not essential to optimise the output, though they may be appropriate for particular and possibly even general applications.

I found it is better if the minimum amount of ferro-core material is used. The opposite direction to that which Thane's research has taken.

Just enough core material to significantly raise the Q factor of the inductor, but without significantly raising the inherent magnetic drag of the core. This means using a GREATER RATIO OF COPPER MASS TO IRON MASS to achieve the best inductive characteristics of the coils.

A higher voltage output (high impedance coil) will cause acceleration at lower RPM, but it will not necessarily deliver greater electrical energy "out" of the system (power output:VxI) into a resistive load (at any given RPM) compared to low impedance coils with high Q to reluctance ratio cores.

The ratio of coil inductance to coil resistance plays a more important role than the actual coil impedance or inductance.

The higher the ratio the better. However, air cored coils do not exhibit the same peculiar
phenomenon

Cheers all. keep on keepin on..
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Offline i_ron

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia.
« Reply #4742 on: May 23, 2009, 05:36:54 PM »
Quote from: hoptoad on May 23, 2009, 03:59:23 PM
Hey I_ron is there any chance of you posting a link to 2541 page 255 ? Curiosity always gets the toad. ?

27 Watts for 19 Watts (70.3 % cop) is actually a pretty good electrical transfer (transmission) from an electrical motor (with its inherent loss) coupled to a generator (with its inherent loss). Using a conventional motor and generator to transfer electrical energy is notoriously inefficient, and off the shelf systems rarely achieve greater than 60 % total system cop.

snip
Cheers all. keep on keepin on..

Yes hop, you see I have studied your work, lol

Now the coil test does not take into account the 200 plus watts of the driver, just the additional cost of generating that 27 watts. This is a cop of 1.42, incidentally and compares, as you say, very favorably with some of my usual coil test where the efficiency did/does range from 20% to 80%. I don't think Mr T took any notice of this post and came on his result by himself... I just was pointing it out as an 'irony'  :P

Still the rest of what you say is most correct and is the way forward for those continuing this quest.

Always a pleasure talking with you HT

Ron

Oh, sorry about the lack of a link, it took me 10 minutes to get to page 255 and I never thought to make a link... the new setup is really a pain to navigate


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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia.
« Reply #4743 on: May 23, 2009, 06:45:09 PM »
Quote from: hoptoad on May 23, 2009, 03:59:23 PM

Hey I_ron is there any chance of you posting a link to 2541 page 255 ? Curiosity always gets the toad. ?



hi,  here it is
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4047.msg101906#msg101906
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Offline hoptoad

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia.
« Reply #4744 on: May 24, 2009, 01:58:40 PM »
Quote from: gyulasun on May 23, 2009, 06:45:09 PM
hi,  here it is
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4047.msg101906#msg101906
@gyulasun
thanks for the link.

@I_ron
oops, I made the mistake of reading your previous post too quickly and I transposed the order and significance of 27 and 19 respectively.

Cheers and kneedeep
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Offline Pageygeeza

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia.
« Reply #4745 on: May 24, 2009, 10:13:36 PM »
Public Domain always seemed a strange way to document this kind of project.  Because ultimately you really want the working model to be yours and no ones elses.  How would you feel if you spent years theorising/making your generator, only to find that while you were being nice and sharing your ideas, someone was taking you ideas to propel themselves to the goal quicker?  I know my design will create OU easily and is more compact and less complicated than Thanes, but i'm very wary about putting my findings and ideas up here.  I'm glad Thanes wised up a bit and gone private, but it would be nice for the guy to come back and say hello.  WORD
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Offline hoptoad

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia.
« Reply #4746 on: May 25, 2009, 02:29:29 AM »
Quote from: Pageygeeza on May 24, 2009, 10:13:36 PM
Public Domain always seemed a strange way to document this kind of project.  Because ultimately you really want the working model to be yours and no ones elses.

If everyone were only self interested and self serving, then you would be paying not only for your internet provider connection, but also for a license royalty to actually use the internet.

The concept and programming code that gave birth to the internet was "gifted" to the world by it's inventor. Same applies to Linux.

Thankfully, not everyone is concerned only with their own personal advancement.

Cheers
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Offline LarryC

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia.
« Reply #4747 on: May 25, 2009, 02:45:16 AM »
Quote from: hoptoad on May 25, 2009, 02:29:29 AM
If everyone were only self interested and self serving, then you would be paying not only for your internet provider connection, but also for a license royalty to actually use the internet.

The concept and programming code that gave birth to the internet was "gifted" to the world by it's inventor. Same applies to Linux.

Thankfully, not everyone is concerned only with their own personal advancement.

Cheers

My compliments, well stated, Toad who hops.

Regards, Larry
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia.
« Reply #4748 on: May 25, 2009, 03:36:49 AM »
Quote from: hoptoad on May 25, 2009, 02:29:29 AM
If everyone were only self interested and self serving, then you would be paying not only for your internet provider connection, but also for a license royalty to actually use the internet.

The concept and programming code that gave birth to the internet was "gifted" to the world by it's inventor. Same applies to Linux.

Thankfully, not everyone is concerned only with their own personal advancement.

Cheers

I 2nd that ;)

Luc
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Offline minde4000

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia.
« Reply #4749 on: May 25, 2009, 04:15:31 AM »
Hats off to Thane for his efforts and all the gift he gave us. Great guy deserves all repect.

Cheers Minde
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Offline Harmonic33

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia.
« Reply #4750 on: May 25, 2009, 10:13:08 AM »
I concur Hoptoad.  :)

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Offline Pageygeeza

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia.
« Reply #4751 on: May 25, 2009, 12:07:51 PM »
Ok, I do agree with that.  But, what are everyone's goals with OU?  Are you doing it for a hobby, or to create usable OU?  I'll give my reasons now and you can think what you will:  About 5 years ago I was thinking of the idea of making an ultra efficient motor, high torque and speed, but over the years it's mutated into my current idea/project.  But essentially it's been OU, but at the time I didn't realise that.  I've lead a pretty shitty life, did crappy at school, all my mates have done something better.  And i've just thought to myself, when I die, I want to remembered for contributing something to the world that really helped.  I'd personally like to make a bit of profit from this so I can at least live a nicer life than I have, but that's just my personal reasons.
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia.
« Reply #4752 on: May 25, 2009, 12:39:48 PM »
Quote from: Pageygeeza on May 25, 2009, 12:07:51 PM
Ok, I do agree with that.  But, what are everyone's goals with OU?  Are you doing it for a hobby, or to create usable OU?  I'll give my reasons now and you can think what you will:  About 5 years ago I was thinking of the idea of making an ultra efficient motor, high torque and speed, but over the years it's mutated into my current idea/project.  But essentially it's been OU, but at the time I didn't realise that.  I've lead a pretty shitty life, did crappy at school, all my mates have done something better.  And i've just thought to myself, when I die, I want to remembered for contributing something to the world that really helped.  I'd personally like to make a bit of profit from this so I can at least live a nicer life than I have, but that's just my personal reasons.

Hi,

It is ok but how you wish to make a bit of profit from your OU device? 

One problem is the moment you come out with a really working device it will be immediately copied and manufactured by much powerful individuals or companies, even if you may have already an issued patent on your principle. You do not wish to spend your life on defending your patent or your interests.

My opinion is that I would organize a manufacturing team from my family and friends circle and invest in components and produce as many devices as my team agrees on the possible profit from the sellings, considering a market price for what the device is capable of, etc etc.   This process is also risky of course but maybe still managable due to the small number of people involved.  But you need money for a start.

Here is a link how Stefan Hartmann thinks: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=2157.msg31408;topicseen#msg31408

So how you think?

rgds,  Gyula

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Offline Pageygeeza

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia.
« Reply #4753 on: May 25, 2009, 01:00:08 PM »
Being hired out by a big company sounds like the best route to me.  I tried getting in touch with Honda as I have a few contacts there, but it's not going too well. :S
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Offline Harmonic33

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Re: Thane Heins Perepiteia.
« Reply #4754 on: May 25, 2009, 02:25:56 PM »
@ Pagey.
Man, i FULLY relate to your situation about yourself/everyone-else/shitty upbringing deal. as i'm coming from a similar place.
But.
I reckon one of the Biggest divisions, not only in our own towns etc but World wide that can tip the balance for a person is fair access to resources namely Coal and Oil. (Light Bulbs are cheap)
If you have the guts to GIVE this to the world you WILL be remembered as great.
If you get on board with a huge company the SELL'S this to the world. Why make it any cheaper per Watt than Oil or Coal? It's Green that will mean you can charge MORE for power. There is no motivation to make it cheaper or FREE! :'(
      Unless..... Said company was competing against numerous home based / micro company's who can make the same thing for much much less. ;D
It's all about profit.
If i were you I'd be struggling with the same problem.
Good Luck,
Dan.
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