Author Topic: Thane Heins Perepiteia. (Read 1890550 times)

i_ron · « **Reply #4710 on:** May 13, 2009, 05:10:03 PM »

Quote from: Covey on May 13, 2009, 06:57:17 AM

Very Very happy to hear Thanes work is to continue..

Yes Covey, we all like to think that we are masters of the situation but often it is that when we play a tune the 'man'
who is paying for it gets to say when it shall be played and
sometimes even if it will be played...

That could be the situation here... so we have to be patient
and see how this plays out....

Ron

hydrocontrol · « **Reply #4711 on:** May 13, 2009, 10:35:40 PM »

Quote from: i_ron on May 13, 2009, 05:10:03 PM

Yes Covey, we all like to think that we are masters of the situation but often it is that when we play a tune the 'man'
who is paying for it gets to say when it shall be played and
sometimes even if it will be played...

That could be the situation here... so we have to be patient
and see how this plays out....

Ron

Yes I_Ron you are so correct. Obviously Thane is not doing this out his garage so there are other supporting factors in play here. Considering his progress, the amount of materials involved, and the location involved there appears to be a fair amount of "outside" support so I am sure that support has some "say" in the matter.

derricka · « **Reply #4712 on:** May 14, 2009, 10:29:16 AM »

The good news in all this, is that there really are no secrets being kept here. All the information needed to replicate Thanes work is posted here in this forum or in his YouTube videos.
http://www.youtube.com/user/ThaneCHeins
If you are observant while watching Thane's YouTube video's (especially the earlier ones) you will notice he has things like schematics and magnet configurations on a white board behind him. All you have to do is freeze the video and do a screen capture, as many (if not most) of these drawings are quite legible at times.

i_ron · « **Reply #4713 on:** May 14, 2009, 04:56:07 PM »

Quote from: derricka on May 14, 2009, 10:29:16 AM

The good news in all this, is that there really are no secrets being kept here. All the information needed to replicate Thanes work is posted here in this forum or in his YouTube videos.
http://www.youtube.com/user/ThaneCHeins
If you are observant while watching Thane's YouTube video's (especially the earlier ones) you will notice he has things like schematics and magnet configurations on a white board behind him. All you have to do is freeze the video and do a screen capture, as many (if not most) of these drawings are quite legible at times.

Yes, this is true but if you have watched this unfold you see
Mr T has steadily grown his knowledge of this concept.
Starting from the flux through the motor shaft up to the
more refined combination HC/HV coil. So the early work will
give you an understanding but the latest concepts are the meat.

The 18 magnet rotor has gone through several incarnations
the latest being an acknowledgment that 18 magnets at 3300 RPM generates a very high frequency output, over 900 Hz.
Doubling up the magnets in a NNSS manner brings this back in alignment with 400 Hz iron cored transformers.

But this leaves a 'not the most efficient rotor', so room for improvement yet, either through different magnet shapes or a
lower RPM motor, ie: 1740 RPM RV.

So pay attention to the latest experiments and think how
you can achieve a similar build, knowing what we know now.

All the best,

Ron

minde4000 · « **Reply #4714 on:** May 14, 2009, 07:23:03 PM »

Magnet poles ... First thing - 18 magnets cannot go NNSS because you will end up with NNNN at the end. T made it clear that he wants to increase amount of the magnets in order to increase pulse frequency and reduce min working rpm. His las video demonstrates some 50khz per coil if magnets are NSNS @ 3000rpm. His 18 magnet rotor is most likely NSNS or possibly NNNSSS but this is unlikly considering the fact that he was looking for frequency increase. I wish T could put his word on this particular matter.

Regards Minde

baroutologos · « **Reply #4715 on:** May 14, 2009, 09:12:48 PM »

@ I_ron

I have been following this thread for some time now. I think you have been involved in peripeteia with mr Heins, even though you have your differences.

I am asking. Do you think magnet frequence is one of the factors for acceleration or magnet speed?

Today, i re-viewed the youtube video of thanes "Regenerative accelaration part 1"
There a 6 magnet rotor is employed and yet accelaration is being acheived from some 1200 rmp. I assume coil configuration to be more or less the same with the 18 magnet rotor.

For me if it was frequency, the 6 magnet accelaration would required some x 3 rpm in contrast to the 18 one. So? What do you think about that?

Regards,
Baroutologos

petersone · « **Reply #4716 on:** May 14, 2009, 09:23:04 PM »

Hi Baroutologos
The only thing I can say is maybe there is even more acceleration with a higher frequency.
peter

i_ron · « **Reply #4717 on:** May 15, 2009, 01:44:11 AM »

Quote from: minde4000 on May 14, 2009, 07:23:03 PM

Magnet poles ... First thing - 18 magnets cannot go NNSS because you will end up with NNNN at the end. T made it clear that he wants to increase amount of the magnets in order to increase pulse frequency and reduce min working rpm. His las video demonstrates some 50khz per coil if magnets are NSNS @ 3000rpm. His 18 magnet rotor is most likely NSNS or possibly NNNSSS but this is unlikly considering the fact that he was looking for frequency increase. I wish T could put his word on this particular matter.

Regards Minde

Oops, sorry, I missed that, but yes you are right. I usually
work with 16 or 24 magnet rotors and didn't do my homework.

18 magnets times 3000 RPM... first divide the rev per minute
by 60 to revs per second and you get 50. Multiplie 50 by 18
and you get 900 Hz.

MOT transformers and all in north america are usually 60 Hz.
So the 900Hz output will not work too efficiently into these.

Ron

PS: mis-spelling is to defeat the adds!

i_ron · « **Reply #4718 on:** May 15, 2009, 01:50:13 AM »

Quote from: baroutologos on May 14, 2009, 09:12:48 PM

@ I_ron

I am asking. Do you think magnet frequence is one of the factors for acceleration or magnet speed?

What do you think about that?

Regards,
Baroutologos

It would just be my personal opinion as I haven't done the
experiments... but I think there is a minimum window only.

Ron

minde4000 · « **Reply #4719 on:** May 15, 2009, 05:12:46 AM »

@i_ron

Wow my math was 60x off rofl. 900hz it is with 18 magnets @ 3000rpm. Damn rpm/min...

Thanks

baroutologos · « **Reply #4720 on:** May 15, 2009, 09:37:24 AM »

Quote from: petersone on May 14, 2009, 09:23:04 PM

Hi Baroutologos
The only thing I can say is maybe there is even more acceleration with a higher frequency.
peter

I think that also. IMO, magnet speed initiates the event alone. Magnet frequency as i perceive it has to do with output. (more magnets per pass, less coil idle time = more output = better accelaration)

But, that is theorizing to the moment. No hard evidence yet.

............................
Regarding transformer inefficiency i can verify that. I am a builder and owner of a simple bedini SSG. It runs at 300 to 400 rpm with 18 ferrite magnets on the circuference and comsumes some 3 watt.

When i add an high voltage coil, (29awg @ 340ohms) , it outputs 100vAC and 20mA when shorted. The notable effect is that when shorted it does not slow the rotor down, whereas it doen not accelarate it also.
When an 10Kohm resistor is connected there is a current of 7mA through it. Note 20 mA shorted (340ohms coil resistance) and 7mA through a 10Kohm resistor.

So, by doing the math it outputs some 0.6 watt. The little resistor becomes very hot also.

When i used a step-down transformer it hardly could light an 6volt 50mA bulb. So much of energy is wasted on the rather small trasformer.

BUT.. when i use a capacitor, 2200uf could be charged at 60volt in 12 secs. So... with proper arrangement that small lightbulb could be sustained to be lit.

Bottom line, for small setups, transformers are lossy. Caps are better.

Regards,
Baroutologos

i_ron · « **Reply #4721 on:** May 16, 2009, 05:10:00 AM »

Quote from: minde4000 on May 15, 2009, 05:12:46 AM

@i_ron

Wow my math was 60x off rofl. 900hz it is with 18 magnets @ 3000rpm. Damn rpm/min...
Thanks

No prob, bin dehr dun dat

R

petersone · « **Reply #4722 on:** May 16, 2009, 11:01:01 AM »

Hi Baroutologos
The set up you described is running at about 7khz where as heins is running at about 25kz which is perhaps why you are not seeing any acceleration.
peter

baroutologos · « **Reply #4723 on:** May 16, 2009, 02:40:29 PM »

@ Peter

Excuse me Peter, but am I not measure it correctly? 7 Kilo-herz? Per what? Per minute?

I said 18 magnets pass over coil at a rate of 5-7 rotations per sec (depends the input). That's a frequency of 90-125 Hz. Not 7 Khz.

Hertz frequency is measure on second basis.

Regards,
Baroutologos

petersone · « **Reply #4724 on:** May 16, 2009, 03:27:50 PM »

Hi Baroutologos
Sorry,you are right,Heins is about 400hz,as you said your's is about 100hz,have I got it right now? if so there is a big differance.
peter

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