@Group,

Circuit is running from a lead acid battery, 12,23 V.  Without feedback the circuit uses 0,15 A.
When I connect the feedback the input usgae drops to 0,08 Amp. Measurements is done
with a moving Iron analog meter and is approximately only. More measurements must
be done before any certain conclutions. But it seems to me that the system is capable of
coupling magnetic flux from the input core to the output core by using a short circuit coil.

BTW: The R1 is only needed to start the circuit so I used 580K.

Groundloop.

[EDIT-1] The moving Iron amp meter affects the circuit. When I remove the amp meter the input current increase a lot.
            To get the amp down again I just connected an air core coil in series with the plus on the battery.
            Now the circuit runs a very low input amp.

Groundloop.

Hi Groundloop,
Impressive work! I wish I had even half your knowledge.

When you say "connect the feedback" above, do you mean closing L3?

Are you going to disconnect L2 from the circuit later to measure output or are you checking by looking at the effect of closing L3 on the input current?

Lastly, do you have any specific questions you'd like us to ask Thane that would help you?
-Steve
http://rimstar.org

Steven,

No, I connected and disconnected the L3 coil. Seems to me that I can loop back
approx. 50% of the total power back to the battery. When I open and close the L2 coil I can also see the input going up and down.

I am going to remove the feedback and do a measurement on the output to see how much I can get. I will also play with the L2 coil and see if I can get some power from that coil also.

I have one question you can ask: What type of cores and size of cores to use in this setup.

@hartiberlin,

No, it is +80mA FROM the battery because the battery is slowely going down in voltage.

Groundloop.

Groundloop,

Very nicely done! If the toroids in this only picture I could find are truly representative of what is required, then maybe it really is the cores that make the difference. Anyways, an awesome piece of creativity in a short time on your part, and if we get some clues from Thane it may be the perfect testing platform!

tak

@Groundloop

If I've understood the principle by which the overunity transformer is supposed to work, then you're supposed to drive the coil on the low permeability core, and take power off the center coil.  The idea is that the current induced in the center coil magnetizes the high permeability core instead of sending back EMF through the primary.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy

@tak22,

I really hope there will be more information on this. As far as I see it right now is that the magnet coupling effect IS something in itself!  Think on that for a second. Just a little switch and you can turn on and off a much bigger effect. Just like a transistor but for magnetic fields. I bet that if i put a transistor on the middle coil then I can turn on and off the output in a linear fashion.

Groundloop.

yep,
its called a Mag amp,
magnetic amplifier or
saturable-core reactor.

interesting device.


http://www.answers.com/topic/saturable-reactor?cat=technology
http://www.tpub.com/content/neets/14180/css/14180_140.htm
http://www.geocities.com/aaawelder/reactor.html

@argona369 and @abassign,

An saturable reactor uses a DC current to switch a larger AC current.
My replica device uses no DC current to switch the output on or off.

The difference is that my circuit use NO power to do the switching.
So I do NOT agree that my replica circuit is an saturable reactor.

Groundloop.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Talk:Directory:Perepiteia_Generator_by_Potential_Difference_Inc

On Feb. 11, 2008, DMBoss added:

There is one thing I neglected to mention in the above commentary. That is this Heins fellow may also get this apparent anomalous rotor speed up entirely due to the improper use of an AC induction motor.

His related demonstration of putting a strong NIB magnet near the steel shaft of this induction motor, with said motor's front "C" plate removed and having it's speed increase is telling.

That is removing the C plate leaves the AC motor's fields rather open to external influence. And it's steel shaft is magnetically connected to the AC rotor, comprising steel laminations and several heavy turns of short circuited windings.

The AC induction motor [in this case a split phase motor] works by making the stator fields produce a rotating field, which induces currents and then fields in the rotor windings/core. These rotor fields try to couple to the 60Hz stator field rotation, and tries to synchronize with them. An AC motor never completely syncs though, and some rotor "slip" occurs. The more the slip the more current the stator coils draw, and this tries to lessen the slip this it automatically "throttles" the current to meet the drag torque causing the increased slip.

Anyway these things should never use an AC motor as they are inherently unreliable and non linear regards their power signature vs the output torque. But this chap is going wildly out of the normal operating envelope for an AC induction motor on top of that.

That is a 2 pole AC motor tries to run at 3600 rpm, and a 4 pole at 1800 rpm. And he is running at 50-200 rpm. So he has massive slip between rotor field and stator field. (you can allow a split phase motor to run at low speed by simply plugging it into a Variac and turning down the voltage after the rotor's turning, or give it a shove by hand as he does)

Now the force/torque on the rotor is proportional to the B^2 in the air gap. Yes it's alternating, but it is still proportional to the square of the flux density. Adding an external magnetic field from permanent magnets could very well provide a DC offset in this magnetic field - as a path is formed from the motor case to return to the magnet, and from the magnet's other pole to the shaft, through rotor, across air gap to stators, and into the motor case. (C plate is removed so you can make a complete flux path out to the magnet)

This small change in flux levels would make no difference if force was proportional to flux density. But it is proportional to flux density squared. So it is plausible that this small offset, applied to the motor in this very unusual running mode of extreme amounts of slip - has caused an imbalance in the amount of rotor torque.

In a sense this addition of external flux has made the coupling coefficient of the rotor to stator higher due to the DC offset and squared condition. No absolute power gain has occurred, but you have gotten more of the power applied to make rotor boost torque.

His own numbers belie this - his AC motor if the two stacked power meters are to be trusted, is drawing some 250 watts to run at this low speed. While the shaft friction of such a sized device is reasonably estimated to be below 20 watts, probably below 5 watts of shaft power to meet friction etc. So his coupling is below 10%. Adding the magnetic path from external magnets to the AC motor system, could cause say a 15 or 20% coupling to occur. Making the shaft speed up, but this is NOT a gain in energy!

My initial comments are correct - you can engineer a system which produces a shaft speed up when you have massive core loss and you short the generator coils - as this negates much of this core loss - so if the coil heating upon shorting is low, then the rotor can speed up.

Also his messing with AC motor can be responsible for the speed up alone or in combo with this generator core loss artifact. But neither is anything but mundane and neither cause of shaft speed up necessarily indicates a gain over unity!

Notes by Steven Dufresne from February 11, 2008 demonstration given by Thane Heins at the University of Ottawa. The photos I took are in another post. Luc, please correct me if I you remember anything differently.

Regarding the bi-toroid transformer mentioned on this webpage:
http://science.blogdig.net/archives/articles/July2007/04/Free_energy_with_magnetic_reluctance.html
- Thane did not want to answer my questions about specific construction details due to his contractual agreements with organizations he is involved with regarding the bi-toroid transformer. He did confirm that he was using round cores, and that they would be better than rectangular ones and that the input core should be of lower permeability than the output core. I showed him a color photo furnished by Luc of Groundloop's replication attempt and he seemed to indicate that they were the types of cores he used, but again, he would not give specifics. He also confirmed that they did manage to get the flux to  go one way, i.e. no back EMF into the primary, but were having
problems with the voltage balancing.
- Regarding the claim on the webpage of of 7000% efficiency, this was incorrect. The author of this blog was jumping the gun on releasing this information and shouldn't have. The 7000% efficiency is based on a measurement made by an undisclosed person in Russia who did not make power factor into account. Once power factor is taken into account, it is less than 100% efficient. However, Thane is working with other organizations to improve it and "I GOT THE IMPRESSION" (i.e. he did not say it outright) that he thought that it should be possible to make it over 100%.
- Looking back at the above blog, I should have asked him about the claim of 0.2 watts in and 14 watts out also made on the webpage.

Regarding the demonstration...
- Nothing new came up in the demonstration. Given the time, and that we'd already seen the videos, less time was spent on the set demonstraton than in the videos. See the videos for details on the demonstration.
- In case it's hard to read from the videos, the units he uses to display power are Lutron DW-6090 Power Analyzers.
- The output of any single coil is in the milliwatt range. Remember, the cores are just steel pieces purchased from Home Depot, nothing special.
- He did try combining the output of a bunch of coils but found that too difficult since it's like combining 8 phases, with a different voltage from each coil. Remember, each one is different since he
was trying many variables. Thane made no claims to have measured more power out than in.
- Thane will be emailing Luc documents showing test results with open circuit coils, coils with resistive loads, and short-circuit coils. Luc will upload these to the group.

Regarding construction of the devices in the videos...
- The steel wheel is just a spoked wheel available at Lee Valley Hardware, a store in Ottawa and is a wagon wheel. He then welded on the rings that hold the magnets and the magnets were glued in place. The magnets were also from Lee Valley, which sells Neodymium magnets. The wheel/magnet
he used in the demonstration was a different one than in the videos in that it had only one magnet (though there may have been more than one magnet back-to-back within each ring) per spoke and so there were less and they were more uniformly distributed around the wheel.
- The motor is the induction motor and base taken from a RYOBI 6" grinder purchased at Home Depot. Thane did suggest that DC and AC motors should work too, as long as when the flux from redirected back EMF would make a contribution once it made its way back into the motor.
- The steel used as coil cores and to furnish a flux path to the shaft and to other corse was purchased at Home Depot. As needed, some were just straight pieces or as in the 4th video with the toroid, 90 degree pieces. In some places, tranformer tape was used to separate pieces of steel to make laminated cores, in other places the steel pieces were bolted togther with nothing in between to simply make a large mass flux path.
- Various gauges of wire were used in the coils as were different amounts of steel pieces and laminations in an effort to test many variables. From observation some of the wire was around 22 AWG enamel coated wire.

Regarding the patent 2437745...
- Thane said that this patent was an old idea that lead up to what he had now and was outdated. Incidentally, he gave the patent office diagrams in color which they scanned. This may be the reason
that they don't appear in the online version - i.e. problem with the resulting scan.

-Steve
http://rimstar.org