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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: gaby de wilde on February 02, 2008, 02:00:33 PM
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hi,
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4039.0;attach=17128;image)
Imagine the magnet in the center being pulsed and the other 26 work as pick up coils.The pulse should be just strong enough to self sustain after hand cranking everything up to speed.
But
Perhaps each coil needs pulsing for it to work best.
Or perhaps one per axle works best.
Or perhaps just the center pilar.
Can put them all in parallel on one alternator.
Or perhaps they really need their own communicator each.
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here is a vertical savings.
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The flux beyond the coils is normally lost.
We take the field from 2 newman machines and we make it overlap.
by saving the coil we can overlap the fields even further.
Like having 2 Newman machines on one and the same spot. ^_^
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Here is an idea for the axle angles.
I don't know which is more efficient but I assume placement under 90 degrees could work out.
Perhaps they should spin in reverse logical direction. :-)
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Imagine the magnet in the center being pulsed
You mean to say we feed pulsed DC to the coil in the location of the central dot in that green grid?
and the other 26 work as pick up coils.
Alright... why are there permanent magnets inside the coils, and do they need to be askew (scheef) for this to work? Why exactly are they askew anyway? Or is that just for the purposes of this drawing?
The pulse should be just strong enough to self sustain after hand cranking everything up to speed.
Hand cranking what to speed? You were talking about pulsing the central electromagnet coil, not about cranking anything up to any speed...
But
Perhaps each coil needs pulsing for it to work best.
If you're going to pulse every electromagnet, then what effect would that have?
What exactly do you mean by "it", and how is that different when it "works best"? you're being very unclear. ;)
I thought you suggested pulsing the central coil and using the surroundig coils to collect whatever there is to collect...
But now you're talking about pulsing every coil and using them to collect what? The same energy you just put in? I don't get it...
Or perhaps one per axle works best.
One per axle? Do you mean to simply do away with the entire matrix grid then,
and simply stack a couple of these coils on top of eachother? How would that be different, exactly? I mean, doing that, and then
putting a few of those next to eachother seems to give a very similar effect to using the matrix grid version...
Or perhaps just the center pilar.
And now you're definately talking about simply stacking a few of those magnet coils on top of
eachother, doign away with the rest of the grid...
What makes you think that could produce OU?
I mean, you're talking about a simple stack of a couple of coils... Possibly with permanent magnets in them...
Unless of course you are in fact talking about something quite a bit more intricate, but you omitted to mention the rest of the story...?
Is there some principle that you don't mention here? If so, your story may make a lot more sense than it seems to, but I can't tell...
Can put them all in parallel on one alternator.
Doesn't that depend a whole lot on the actual output pattern?
Or perhaps they really need their own communicator each.
Ok now you've lost me. Coils using communicators?
"this is coil alpha calling coil beta, come in coil beta" "coil beta receiving you loud and clear, over" ;)
You must be talking about something else...?
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Gaby
Your Work is very impressive.
helmut
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Imagine the magnet in the center being pulsed
You mean to say we feed pulsed DC to the coil in the location of the central dot in that green grid?
The point is to use use back emf generated by the newman machine, a small seed pulse generates a lot of back emf.
The best builds have a lot of wire on the coil but you can never build a coil the full size of the magnetic field, it would become to big.
So there is always some flux change lost in all directions.
If we use 3 coils to build 2 Newman machines then they end up overlapping by a whole lot.
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4039.0;attach=17129;image)
This is what the eggs are trying to illustrate here:
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4039.0;attach=17130;image)
and the other 26 work as pick up coils.
Alright... why are there permanent magnets inside the coils, and do they need to be askew (scheef) for this to work? Why exactly are they askew anyway? Or is that just for the purposes of this drawing?
Like I said, a Newman machine is basically made of a magnet rotating inside a coil. If you fix another magnet on an axle and hold it close to it then the other magnet will spin along with the first magnet.
Just like gearing only without the chains.
Like I described here
http://gabydewilde.googlepages.com/magnetmotor-theory
gabydewilde - magnetmotor
You can see the newman machine drive external load here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBygG9oN9gY
You can place another Newman machine at any sides of it.
Like that the total back emf will be more then from pulsing 2 seperate Newman machines because their field overlaps and we only used 3 coils in stead of 4.
We then build a big grid like that where we may capture 27 times the scrap flux from 3*9 machines.
I suspect the flux extending beyond the coil will be very useful at 27 times it's strength.
Don't you think? :)
The pulse should be just strong enough to self sustain after hand cranking everything up to speed.
Hand cranking what to speed? You were talking about pulsing the central electromagnet coil, not about cranking anything up to any speed...
The feed pulse(s) should be just strong enough to keep the whole thing spinning, it doesn't have to self start. That would be to much feed power.
But
Perhaps each coil needs pulsing for it to work best.
If you're going to pulse every electromagnet, then what effect would that have?
What exactly do you mean by "it", and how is that different when it "works best"? you're being very unclear. ;)
I thought you suggested pulsing the central coil and using the surroundig coils to collect whatever there is to collect...
But now you're talking about pulsing every coil and using them to collect what? The same energy you just put in? I don't get it...
I'm listing the ways one could tune a setup like this.
If each motor is just wired on it's own with it's own charge battery and it's own feed battery then we get 37 times an extra layer of flux that would otherwise be lost.
But it might not be necessary to feed power into all the rotors.
It would be cool if the whole thing would run on one 50 ma motor in the center generating enough current to power a car. ghehehe ehh I mean to charge up a battery slowly.... lol...
Or perhaps one per axle works best.
One per axle? Do you mean to simply do away with the entire matrix grid then,
and simply stack a couple of these coils on top of eachother? How would that be different, exactly?
not at all, this is just a part of the whole. I was giving examples of how much coils can be pulsed at a time. You can start with just one coild having a power imput, then 2, 3 etc up to all 27.
Or perhaps just the center pilar.
And now you're definately talking about simply stacking a few of those magnet coils on top ofeachother, doign away with the rest of the grid...
no
What makes you think that could produce OU?
It's called a Newman machine.
http://magnetmotor.go-here.nl/joseph-newman
I mean, you're talking about a simple stack of a couple of coils... Possibly with permanent magnets in them...
Unless of course you are in fact talking about something quite a bit more intricate, but you omitted to mention the rest of the story...?
Is there some principle that you don't mention here? If so, your story may make a lot more sense than it seems to, but I can't tell...
It took science 50 years to ignore Newman. If the motor is indeed as simple as you say it is it is all the more embarrassing. ;D It sure looks like you are right to me. hehe
Can put them all in parallel on one alternator.
Doesn't that depend a whole lot on the actual output pattern?
having the magnet 90 degrees out of phase with the coil is the ideal moment for the pulse so all coils would need to be pulsed at about the same moment.Or perhaps they really need their own communicator each.
Ok now you've lost me. Coils using communicators?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commutator_%28electric%29
There needs to be a source for the pulse in any motor.
Can be electronics, can be a commutator.
I understand the Newman type of engine works best with a sparking wire on the axle separated by some tape.
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Thanks Gaby, that helps a lot. Now at least I understand what you're talking about :)
As for the "communicator", I suspected you meant a comutator but I just had to ask.
So you are actually suggesting a Newman type motor setup that uses a 'matrix' of multiple oppositely oriented coil+magnet rotor assemblies?
...interesting idea.... let me get this straight:
and what you suggest is that you can intercept a significant part of the back emf that is lost in a 'normal' single coil+magnet setup,
because all angles are 'covered' by the surrounding coils+magnets?
Which would then use that back emf as input, is that what you're saying?
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here is an animation of 2 spinning magnets without coils.
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So you are actually suggesting a Newman type motor setup that uses a 'matrix' of multiple oppositely oriented coil+magnet rotor assemblies?
yes...interesting idea.... let me get this straight:
and what you suggest is that you can intercept a significant part of the back emf that is lost in a 'normal' single coil+magnet setup,
because all angles are 'covered' by the surrounding coils+magnets?
yes, but should call that flux change I think. Capture flux change. :)
Back emf is the current in the motor when it is working as a generator.
This is caused by the magnetic field changes which are caused by the magnet.:)
Which would then use that back emf as input, is that what you're saying?
The (returning) current from all motors may be captured and put into batteries.
We all know that Newman machines work but to make one self sustaining is a different story.
Charging a battery with the back emf also creates shall we say artifacts. Radiant charging may occur. Perhaps it's a chemical effect I have no idea how that works.
I want cheap and simple free energy machines.
The Newman machine is most elegant in it's simplicity. :-)
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well, it is quite nice, yes. :)
I like this design: http://www.magneticpowerinc.com/pdf/MPI-patentapplication.pdf
but I'm unclear on whether or not this does indeed produce OU...
I think it might, because this seems to be the "Genie technology" they refer to
all over their website, and they very clearly claim that it is OU/FE.
Have you seen this before, or do you know more about it?
(I know the company itself does not give any additional info unless you
sign a non-disclosure agreement, so it might be hard to get fresh data on it...)
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I don't know anything about magnetic power inc. The patent application is interesting but not much related (I think?)
There can't be just one working device. Surely there are hundreds of ways to pull it off. perendev makes them in the hundreds of kW. That almost makes it impossible to find a good place for it but I bet they have good reasons for it. :-)
I put some links here.
http://magnetmotor.go-here.nl
I've made this illustration of the 27 (3 X 9) fields interacting.
Gives a good picture of how intense 27 fields really is. :-)
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try look deep into the image. :D
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I was thinking of a Newman matrix powered wind tunnel.
Try think really small or really big.
The idea is to have a lot of magnets move in sink with a lot of coils.
One can pulse the rotors if there is not enough wind to push them around.
wind + pulse is more then just a pulse just like wind + pulse is more then just wind wind
The axle friction however only applies one time.
We have the 2 whole machines but we only have half the friction left.
In the previous post I used (only) 3 coils to build 2 Newman machines in stead of 4.
Then there was mention of a 3X3X3 block of axles, there 4 coils is enough per row in stead of the usual 3X2=6 (normally the Newman machine has 2 coils)
We saved 2 coils per row, over the other angle we had more as one Newman machine on the same axle.
Using (only) 3 machines per axle we may (already) scrap 4 bearings.
The normally lost flux changes from the 27 overlapping fields generates extra flux 26:1 that means looking at one coil the other 26 coils combined have more influence as the coil it self.
If you pack the coil in even more external fields then it's own power will merely be a seed to the sum.
I thus so on further more as a result there of now suggest to also use those "virtual" axles to attach wind power harvesting means in order to accomplish more massive part savings and to seed that huge energy gain we was suppose to find in some configuration for that was the task of this forums!
;D
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This is suppose to look like a grid of wind tubes.
It should go on a rotatable platform offset from the center so that it aims it self at the wind.
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I was thinking of the exact same idea after I saw one of ray0energy's youtube videos on how to make a newman motor. After he made a second motor he placed it next to another motor that was already running and it spun the new motor. I was going to make a tube like in your drawings to see if it would expand the life of my electric scooter. I just thought it would look funny having this tube mounted on the bike. When I saw this post it was almost like a drawing right out of my imagination. ;D
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hi,
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4039.0;attach=17128;image)
Imagine the magnet in the center being pulsed and the other 26 work as pick up coils.The pulse should be just strong enough to self sustain after hand cranking everything up to speed.
But
Perhaps each coil needs pulsing for it to work best.
Or perhaps one per axle works best.
Or perhaps just the center pilar.
Can put them all in parallel on one alternator.
Or perhaps they really need their own communicator each.
nice ideas i was oredy trying same thins that look like this ;)
i will soon post same videos ;)
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I've seen a lot of nice Newman based setups on youtube. Got a bit lost actually. There is so much I cant remember what I've seen exactly. =)
here is another fun idea partially based on the Newman motor.
http://forum.go-here.nl/viewtopic.php?t=11
combination of the milkovic, newman and finsrud devices
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The Newman motor has a problem with sparking at the comutator. The effect is caused by trying to back charge the battery by mechanically comutating the spike back into the battery. This is difficult to do with one battery . If both circuits are completed at the same time , a direct short is the result . A small time delay is required between the comutator segments to prevent shorting . At high voltages , the problem gets worse . As the gap is widened to reduce the sparking , a lot of the coil's energy is lost . The collapsing field disapates it's energy very quickly and any off time during this event results in wasted energy .
A better way was found . The comutator was replaced by a points set from an automotive distributor . A full wave bridge was attached across the coil leads . The output from the bridge was dumped into a second battery . Any voltage or current generated by the coil is immediately captured and delivered to the waiting battery . The spike never appears .
The motor timing is accomplished by using a cam just like the auto distributor with the lobes ground to the correct dwell .
The motor can be rigged to operate in the attract and repell mode by using two sets of points . The tricky part here again is that if the points ever close at the same time , a direct short occurs .
To solve this problem , the motor was found to operate just fine using only attract or repell with one set of points .
The lack of spark at the points is uncanny . You can't even see a points spark in the dark .
The motor was further symplified by using a car speaker magnet sandwiched between two steel side bars and mounted on a shaft with ball bearings . A pancake coil with a small cast iron core pin was used to concentrate the flux to attract the rotor bars .
The motor operates at different speeds depending on the weather . When high pressure comes the motor slows to about half speed . When a storm arrives , the rpm picks up to about double . The motor appears to be running on something besides the battery .
Ben Franklin got electricity out of a storm with his kite . Possibly this circuit does the same thing . It is possible the machine actually goes overunity during a severe storm . My scope burned out before I thought about checking for overunity .
With the double battery system , checking the ins and outs of power became a lot easier . The scope was set to generate a sine wave . The uppper half of the wave was the power going into the motor and the lower half of the wave was the power going to the second battery . The upper curve was larger than the lower curve so it was obvoius that the motor was not over unity . The rpm could be increased by rolling the shaft with the hand . When the rpm was slightly increased , the curves were equal and it was assumed that this would be the unity speed of the motor . Further increase in speed would generate power just like any ordinary generator .
These tests were run before the speed up during storms was noted .
It is not known at this time if the motor generates more power than it uses during a storm . What is known is that more power is used than captured when there is no storm .
If it does indeed gain during a storm , this puts the device in the same problem as a wind mill . No wind , no power . No storm , no power .
John Bedini's 2 battery systems are quite like this system . Could his devices be picking up power during storms ?
It was found that polaritys were involved and it made a difference which side of the coil you put the points . David Wells