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Author Topic: Helmust Goebkes magnet motor  (Read 49477 times)

Joh70

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Re: Helmust Goebkes magnet motor
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2008, 03:01:41 AM »
Thank you, Nerz, for your effort to put in that drawing. The secret behind seperate iron or ferrite-magnets  / iron-containing-soft-magnets could be there property, to interact with inertial iron-particles. These particles are adapting to flux-changes with a delay. during these process they either absorb or add additional magnetic force thru there according electrons-spin which is overunity (a sort of quantum mechanics). Neos are not soft.

R_weng777

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Just an observation
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2008, 05:34:52 PM »
 I worked on a magnetic perpetual motor for about five years,and learned alot in the process, mine was based on Ezekiel wheels where both rotor and stator were moving,it  the only way to go for infinity.But i gave it up,Here's why? All energy comes from light(electro-magnetism) C= M/E; light when it strikes matter(protons, earth) produce eletron-positron pairs.Electron positron collisions produce a pair a quarks, it takes 3 quarks to make matter, combining to form planets and stars, thus creating light. The circle is complete, not closed but open infinte,Thats all well and good for PM inventors exept one thing; the higher the over-unity the more light is needed, a mini-black hole.Stealing fire from the sun, might be bad for the liver,Of course fire from heaven might be bad for the soul. It's provable, the science is out there.Solution create your own light source, to go with  your machine.Yours probably won't use to much light. Good luck.

wizkycho

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Re: Helmust Goebkes magnet motor
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2008, 11:59:39 AM »
Hi all !

I've seen somewhere web page with simmilar drawing
describing work of permanent magnet lifters...
can someone find original the link ?
...

priniciple of work is in picture
if build properly COP is easily 100 - 1000 !!!

Wiz



RunningBare

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Re: Helmust Goebkes magnet motor
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2008, 12:54:29 PM »
Hi all !

I've seen somewhere web page with simmilar drawing
describing work of permanent magnet lifters...
can someone find original the link ?
...

priniciple of work is in picture
if build properly COP is easily 100 - 1000 !!!

Wiz




The diagram in essence is one of these...
(http://www.walkermagnet.com/UK/lifting_handling/images/neo-family-anim.gif)
It trades distance moved for force, unfortunately since magnetic flux degrades rapidly with distance it will never match the distance the lever has to be moved.

wizkycho

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Re: Helmust Goebkes magnet motor
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2008, 02:01:49 PM »
!
this is not a per. mag. lifter of type described in picture
this one doesn't shuts off mag. flux completely.
the one I'm talking about (principle described in picture)
completely rerouts flux so it is not existant for load and
in other moment there is full mag flux. wanting to grab something

energy to invest in rotation of magnet is thiny bit
in comparison what magnet will produce attracting heavy weight (load on rotor
) if air gap made sufficiently small.

wiz

wizkycho

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Re: Helmust Goebkes magnet motor
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2008, 02:07:44 PM »

The diagram in essence is one of these...
(http://www.walkermagnet.com/UK/lifting_handling/images/neo-family-anim.gif)
It trades distance moved for force, unfortunately since magnetic flux degrades rapidly with distance it will never match the distance the lever has to be moved.

even this type of Perm. Mag. Lifter doesn't trades distance moved for force
(please be more carefull and find principle of work - I did)
 it also reroutes mag field away from load (weight) but unfortunatelly not completely.

wiz

gyulasun

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Re: Helmust Goebkes magnet motor
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2008, 07:53:12 PM »
Hi all !

I've seen somewhere web page with simmilar drawing
describing work of permanent magnet lifters...
can someone find original the link ?
...

priniciple of work is in picture
if build properly COP is easily 100 - 1000 !!!

Wiz




Hi Igor,

Seeing your drawing I remember an old US patent on magnetic lifters and it is 2,243,616  you can copy and paste this number into this link for a free download :  http://www.pat2pdf.org/
Certainly there are other ideas of such magnetic lifters in other patents if you search them. 

But the question again is whether you can make a simple mechanical solution that needs low input energy to keep up either the rotation or at least a pendulum-like movement of the arm(s) that are attached to the cylinder (or sphere) magnets??  And assuming of course that the output power you gain from the changing flux by an appropiate way will be sufficient for feeding back to cover for the input power needs...

Again,  only practical testing can surely answer this.  By the way, your idea could be combined with the parallel path setup to get an even higher flux change...   ;) :)    http://www.flynnresearch.net/technology/PPMT%20Technology.htm  http://www.flynnresearch.net/young%20scientist/Josh%20Jones/PPMT%20Research%20Paper.pdf

rgds, Gyula

wizkycho

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Re: Helmust Goebkes magnet motor
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2008, 01:55:36 PM »
Hi all !!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_base
http://www.magnetics.com/product.asp?ProductID=52
http://realpower.hisupplier.com/product-130854-magnetic-holder.html

seems like there is only a need od 90 degrees to change states from on to off
(could it be done efficiently with el. relay ?)

can someone confirm that turning this device on or off doesn't reqiure much force, with or without attached weight
(clamped or no clamped) ?

anybody has experinece 'bout this ?

some of this devices can lift 5t !!!! still operating on/off with hands ???

wiz

Gearhead

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Re: Helmust Goebkes magnet motor
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2008, 03:22:53 PM »


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_base

can someone confirm that turning this device on or off doesn't reqiure much force, with or without attached weight
(clamped or no clamped) ?

anybody has experinece 'bout this ?

some of this devices can lift 5t !!!! still operating on/off with hands ???

wiz


A magnetic base can often lift large weights like 5 tons, but the distance of effective force to contact is very short.  With the base in contact with the steel part the lever is fairly easy to operate.  Without being in contact with the steel part the lever is much more difficult to use.  This is such a common device that it seems improbable that energy can be harnessed from it unless this has been overlooked.

wizkycho

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Re: Helmust Goebkes magnet motor
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2008, 03:56:27 PM »
GearHead !

can you please answer aproximately
 
Let's say we have lifter PM device which is capable of lifting 200kg at a contact, what weight is capable of
lifting if device is spaced from weight with Aluminium sheet of 0.5mm thickness (this would be air gap in future rotor)
, and what weight (in Kg or pounds) needs to be applied to lever to turn on , and to turn off.

Many "impossible" things hasn't been given a little tought, cause they are "impossible".
This and simmilar stuf is not overlooked, cause nobody was looking at all.

Thanks
all the best Wiz




pese

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    • Freie Energie und mehr ... Free energy and more ...
Re: Helmust Goebkes magnet motor
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2008, 04:53:46 PM »
Hi all !

I've seen somewhere web page with simmilar drawing
describing work of permanent magnet lifters...
can someone find original the link ?
...

priniciple of work is in picture
if build properly COP is easily 100 - 1000 !!!

Wiz




That was you designed here is principally not others than an DYNAMO.
If you conect coil instead the "weight".

Pese

wizkycho

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Re: Helmust Goebkes magnet motor
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2008, 10:09:37 AM »

That was you designed here is principally not others than an DYNAMO.
If you conect coil instead the "weight".

Pese

There is the catch that it is knowhere simmilar, cause "only" one thing wan't happen if made mechanicall
That thing is so crucial for this type of devices.
 That "thing" is LENTZ counter mag. field 

Unlike Coil, Weight or mechanicall load wan't allow Mr. Lentz to "spell" counter mag. field therefore wan't annihilate cause of action. There lies many many and all the free watts we need today.

If weight is replaced with coil Lentz will make his "spell" and annihilate the cause. This is the huge difference.
After Mechanicall "Lent'z decoupler" it is possible to connect common el.generator on rotating (not mag. permeable) shaft...

Wiz

wizkycho

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Re: Helmust Goebkes magnet motor
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2008, 11:22:48 AM »
Hi All !

Here is another advancement proposed by Gyulasun of design and has some advantages when Flynn or Hildebrand concerned.
Both Hildebrand and Flynn type devices needs active coils all the time. In this type
Coils needs to be activated only period of time while magnet rotates to ON position, then coil can be switched off and let magnet
do rest of the work. This will mostly benefit the eventual motor to start easily (without inputing much of an energy). Disadvantage of this mechanically rotated magnet (and flux) might be observed in motor with when higher rpms develop.

Coil here, when ON, allso aligns magnet into ON position.

If you wonder How this synergetic(Wiz,Gyula,Flynn,Hildebrand) magnet on/off switch can be applied.
The answer is easy look at the Peter Lindemann motor and replace his coil with this mag switch.

In this type of motor you can see dissaproval that distance change is cause of rotation here. Reason for rotor turning is that mag. field Wan'ts to push All it's "vectors" through permeable rotor and Want's them to be spaced as much as possible through whole width of rotor.

Of course distance change has much bigger energy gradient but it is not utilised not even in todays motors-generators, cause of inability to
precisley control it.

Does anyone here in forum can or know someone who can make Silicon Iron sheets of custom dimensions cheap enough for prototyping ?

Wiz



gyulasun

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Re: Helmust Goebkes magnet motor
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2008, 05:03:46 PM »

....Both Hildebrand and Flynn type devices needs active coils all the time.


Hello Wiz,

Thanks for thinking on my earlier hint and you show a good and interesting drawing, I like it!  This seems to be  another good way of joining the flux of an electromagnet to that of a permanent magnet, to sum them up.

However your above statement I quoted is not totally correct.  If you study Hildebrand's magnetic valve it is ALSO pulsed when needed (just like yours) and this is true many times for the Flynn motors too.  See Jack's valve here:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Image:Hilden-Brand_electromagnetic_valve.gif  from Jack's peswiki page here: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Director:Hilden-Brand_Electromagnet_Motor

My hint on joining parallel path principle for your device has come from an idea shown by Paul Noel, see this link:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Image:PpathMagControl.gif  from this Paul page: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:FPPMT:Paul_Noel

The idea is that the control principle shown can be repeated several times, so you can really end up with a system (limited by core flux saturation only) where a very small rotary energy input for moving small masses of magnets will be able to steer huge forces from the summed up fluxes of the bigger magnets, as Paul described in the Invention section under his PpathMagControl.gif drawing.

Does anyone here in forum can or know someone who can make Silicon Iron sheets of custom dimensions cheap enough for prototyping ? 

Though I do not know such yet,  Hildebrand found a problem with those laminations when used them for his valve. I quote his text from this link http://www.keelynet.com/energy/hildenbrand.htm :
Now I have talked to several motor engineers about the type of materials I have been using as the magnetic medium. Now, of course, money has always been an issue when it comes to buying materials. The magnetic medium I have been using has been confiscated from old electric transformers.
Well I have since found out that the silicon steel from transformers is oriented strand silicon steel laminate...and that motors constantly change north/south polarity and will not run if built with oriented strand silicon steel. Well my motors are running on this steel but I have pretty good proof that efficiency would greatly improve if I could get hold of some of the non-oriented silicon steel.

I think it means when you wish to pass flux in transformer laminations perpendicular to the normal flux direction it was manufactured for, you may end up with further losses you are not aware of. Of course if you use them for the normal rolled flux direction as manufactured, i.e. you excite the laminations like in normal mains transformers this is not a problem.

rgds, Gyula

wizkycho

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Re: Helmust Goebkes magnet motor
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2008, 09:47:44 AM »
Hi Gyula and others !

In Flynn or Hildnebrand type devices coil must be energized all the time we want stator to attract mag. permeable rotor.
In this mechanicaly rotated magnet ON/OFF type coil is only energized while magnet rotates to ON position. in that time coil can be switched off and let magnet do all the rest attraction of rotor. After rotor does all the attraction to stator, there should be another
solenoid that moves magnet to off position.

This means that this setup needs two short impulses (one for ON, other for OFF),  so in situation of low RPM (or starting from 0)
this two impulses would be much shorter in comparison to Flynn,Hildenbrand device types.
As the RPM is rising there would be a certain RPM when period of two short impulses (this device) allmost equals period of one pulse (Flynn,Hildenbrand...)...so this type of mechanicall magnet ON/OFF is for low RPM motors (that has lower energy reqiurements to start).
Not saying that starting is a problem of Flynn and /or Hildenbrand (they are far more efficient than todays motors
and going three times OU)

Now there is only a problem how to build them, and material to use. Scince custom shaped laminates are expensive (and may have some other unwanted properties) to build magnetic paths I would use Fe dust mixed with epoxy (might allso add some Co dust).

Now there I must again ask this forum can anybody supply me (or knows someone who can) with reasnobly cheap two component epoxy 
and sufficient ammount of it, so I can start making custom "cookies"...?

Wiz