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Author Topic: My s1r9a9m9 replication!  (Read 515011 times)

Super God

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Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #345 on: July 06, 2008, 04:42:21 PM »
Also gapping the plug will make it harder for water to short it out.

capacitor70

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Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #346 on: July 06, 2008, 05:05:38 PM »
Also gapping the plug will make it harder for water to short it out.

More gap more HV blocking diodes....

DESIGN IS PAYING ATTENTION TO DETAILS
« Last Edit: July 06, 2008, 05:44:14 PM by capacitor70 »

retrod

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Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #347 on: July 06, 2008, 06:08:55 PM »
Bulbs are for just experiment purpose, Previously I am using 700Hz 230V 100Watt Inverter, wattage is problem.

Inverter is in my mind, I am having 200Amps 1200V IGBT pairs for inverter, but right now more focus on starting engine in ideal to get all needed conditions.

major problem is right now is spark plug gets shorted with water and engine oil on its tip, many times it requires opening and cleaning again and again. On my table setup I checked different size spark plugs, 0.5", 0.75" and
1" diameter, I got best results with bigger spark plug. It gives both advantages prevent shorting and more area for
water burning. flame size is without water 0.5" and with water 1.5 to 2 inch in diameter. you can see these photos on previous posts it is with only 175V DC

@Capacitor70, if your HV is shorting out with water try increasing the voltage on the coil, your schematic shows 12v on the primary. Some CDI systems operate the coil at 300v. Once the HV bridges the water you should be good to go and the LV should do it's thing..

Regards

RD

whopper1967

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Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #348 on: July 06, 2008, 11:37:20 PM »
If you are getting oil fouling your plug,it sounds like bad oil rings.Do you have the hottest possible plug you can get for that application?

Shanti

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Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #349 on: July 07, 2008, 06:23:19 PM »
For those who wondered, how using a Trigatron would make the diodes not needed anymore...

Well a Trigatron is actually just a switched spark gap.

Well if you would like to see the principle of a Trigatron, look here:

http://www.angelfire.com/80s/sixmhz/trigatron.html

As I mentioned before, Britts AEROPS Engine uses the same principle, but with inert gases instead of water. He also uses a Trigatron for firing.

Just go here www.pat2pdf.org and download Patent Nr 3977191
And see for yourself how he did it. He used also the standard ignition coil circuit for triggering, and a capacitor charged to 500VDC for the working current...

The disadvantage is certainly the much more complex spark plug needed, now with 3 electrodes.

But actually I think, due to the fact, that an ignition coil doesn't have much energy per firing (about 50-100mJ), it would be the simplest just to use a good varistor in front of the LV Cap (maybe with an additional inductance in the lv discharge path), which protects the cap from the HV-Surge.
Then you also do not need any diodes in your circuit!
It would certainly need some fiddling until everything works as expected and not too much coil energy gets wasted in the Varistor instead of the spark plug.

BTW: I just bought an old 2kw generator and ordered 4 100uF 600V WIMA GTO caps...Let's see how big the bang goes...
(LOL, one of these caps is 90x97mm and capable of a 3500Amp discharge (that are 14'000Amps total ;D), Sadly they have 3 weeks delivery time...)
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 06:49:50 PM by Shanti »

gettinwet

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Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #350 on: July 07, 2008, 07:17:55 PM »

The disadvantage is certainly the much more complex spark plug needed, now with 3 electrodes.


I just saw these this weekend   http://e3sparkplugs.com/

I also want to ask if anyone has tried an aircraft type sparkplug.

I work in the marine repair business and Mercury sells sparkplugs that do not have traditional electrodes. instead of an "L" shaped electrode it is more like a disk.

Any idea how this might change the way the circuit functions?

Kineticon

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Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #351 on: July 07, 2008, 08:53:47 PM »
I am not shure, but the differrent shape of the spark's electrodes may require higher voltage. Anyway, a bigger spark gap does it.

hydrocontrol

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Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #352 on: July 07, 2008, 10:20:06 PM »
I posted this in another thread but it may make more sense posting here where people are actually trying to get engines to run. This is a simple suggestion for those trying to get a motor to run. What if you remove the spark plug ground tab and just use the piston as the 'ground tab'. I would think that this would create an increasing electric arc size as the piston goes down from TDC and would help the water 'ignite, burn, turn to steam, whatever'  to push the piston down. Why confine the electrical arc to a small predetermined gap. I know when I arc weld I have to get the arc started by being very close to the item to be welded but once I get an arc started I can draw the arc back a fair amount. Seems the same idea would hold for a piston engine electrical arc. If the piston can withstand a gas explosion then a electrical arc should not effect it. Now you may have to use a slightly longer plug just as long as it does not touch the piston top but I think that this may be very effective in always getting a great electrical arc.

resonanceman

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Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #353 on: July 07, 2008, 11:03:16 PM »
Bulbs are for just experiment purpose, Previously I am using 700Hz 230V 100Watt Inverter, wattage is problem.

Inverter is in my mind, I am having 200Amps 1200V IGBT pairs for inverter, but right now more focus on starting engine in ideal to get all needed conditions.

major problem is right now is spark plug gets shorted with water and engine oil on its tip, many times it requires opening and cleaning again and again. On my table setup I checked different size spark plugs, 0.5", 0.75" and
1" diameter, I got best results with bigger spark plug. It gives both advantages prevent shorting and more area for
water burning. flame size is without water 0.5" and with water 1.5 to 2 inch in diameter. you can see these photos on previous posts it is with only 175V DC

Capacitor

have  you  changed  your timing?

The  compression pulse would be  very fast   at ignition ...........then condensation  would  happen very  quickly ..especally with a cold engine

Your  oil  fouling  might   be  from   the water condenciing out and forming a vacume .......or  imploding  as some  call it .
This would tend to suck  the oil from the rings into the cylinder  .

gary

ggx9

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Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #354 on: July 08, 2008, 06:10:41 AM »
Hydrocontro,

The arc will find a return path through the wrist pin, journal bearings and main bearings and also through the piston rings to the cylinder wall and make weld pits at those points.  I have worked with rotating welding tables with and without brushes. The tables without brushes burned the bearings. A complex system of brushes could be used to carry the arc ground from the top of the piston to ground, thereby bypassing the weld pitting damage. I heard of this idea many years ago for a gasoline engine, but never heard of anyone trying to implement it.

For a similar effect perhaps two spark plugs in the same cylinder could be made to arc from the center electrode of plug A to the center electrode of plug B with a Tesla coil (large Tesla coils can throw sparks 30 feet in free air) if the entire circuit is made to float and not be grounded at either polarity.

Richard

whopper1967

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Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #355 on: July 08, 2008, 08:10:45 AM »
Capacitor,have you thought about maybe running a hydrogen booster just long enough to get the motor warmed up,then switch to the pure water.I would think something like the smack booster I run would give you enough hho output to easily start your motor.I know that isnt the long term solution,but  if you could get it running and warm,who knows,she might surprise you.It is bound to be much easier on your poor leg...ouch..

capacitor70

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Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #356 on: July 08, 2008, 08:23:37 AM »
Capacitor,have you thought about maybe running a hydrogen booster just long enough to get the motor warmed up,then switch to the pure water.I would think something like the smack booster I run would give you enough hho output to easily start your motor.I know that isnt the long term solution,but  if you could get it running and warm,who knows,she might surprise you.It is bound to be much easier on your poor leg...ouch..

Yes it is in mind but not tried it yet....

nightlife

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Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #357 on: July 08, 2008, 09:19:03 AM »
Quote
The  compression pulse would be  very fast   at ignition ...........then condensation  would  happen very  quickly ..especally with a cold engine

Your  oil  fouling  might   be  from   the water condenciing out and forming a vacume .......or  imploding  as some  call it .
This would tend to suck  the oil from the rings into the cylinder  .

 Gary is very correct and I don?t think many if any are considering that effect that Gary is talking about. Everyone keeps thinking the water will burn. It does not BURN, it explodes from the intense heat of the spark into a vapor and that vapor immediately cools which then causes it to combine back in to water. That recombining process creates a suction and is considered a implosion.
 Therefore the timing must be altered to accommodate the implosion that occurs. The common motor is not built to use water and some major changes will have to be made to the common motor design before we could ever think about using water as a fuel to fuel them.

 One positive note.  To use water, we would need a short two stroke design and it would have to be timed to ignite just before the bottom, or close to it, of the stroke so that the implosion occurs on the up stroke. Another good thing about using water is that it can be reused and water would only have to be injected every so often to replace what is lost thru the rings. No valves would be needed and only a injector would be needed. I figured this concept out after watching a video where a guy used a mixture of gases to create the same effect I am talking about. His motor had no valves and he only had to inject the gas mixture every so often to replace what was lost thru the rings. Water explodes at the ratio of 18to1 and it implodes at the ratio of 1to18. It explodes in to a vapor and it implodes back in to water. It is a bit more complicated then I made it look. There are some other factors that need to be included but it would take more research to find out what they are.

 Now HHO on the other hand, can be used in the common motor because the hydrogen is separated from the oxygen before it goes in to the cylinder. We cant have all the oxygen separated because we need the oxygen to help keep the explosion as cool as possible because hydrogen creates to much heat when ignited and it will burn a whole in the piston.
 Anyone who has seen what nitrogen does to a common piston knows what I am talking about and hydrogen burns even hotter.

 There you go guys, sorry to bust your bubbles but that is what I come up with after doing my research. I did not want to post this on Luc's thread because I did not want to disrespect his wishes of what his thread was focused on.


 

whopper1967

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Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #358 on: July 08, 2008, 09:31:33 AM »
Nightlife,Can you possibly post a link to the engine video you were speaking of,sounds very interesting?...thanks.

nightlife

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Re: My s1r9a9m9 replication!
« Reply #359 on: July 08, 2008, 09:35:50 AM »
whopper1967, I have been searching for the last hour trying to find it for another member but i have yet to find it. I will send you the link as soon as I do find it. It was either a google video or a Youtube video. He was about 50 with glasses.