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Author Topic: The Tesla Project  (Read 253841 times)

Grumpy

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #255 on: March 24, 2008, 04:43:49 AM »
Two currents - opposite directions of flow.

When they pass each other in opposite directions a magnetic field is created.

When Thomson discovered the electron, his arrangement was biased and the electron detected was negative, he missed the other one.

Grumpy

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #256 on: March 24, 2008, 03:09:01 PM »
I already agreed that the two currents are different aspects fo the same one and that there is only the one which creats the illusion of two.

I connect at 28k and that is all that is available to me.  So, email may be slow, but it works.

This may seem to shoot over many heads here, but it may also open a few minds along the way.  They can look up these things for themselves and reproduce the experiments of old.  When I first read of the experiments conducted to determine if there is one current or two, I was fascinated by the approach that many took to determine the nature of electricity.  Nipher, Wheatstone, Roentgen, and Rowland all proved that the two currents are "one" and that they appear to move in opposite directions.  Nipher cought both compression and expansion on film.  Roentgen showed that the relationship bewteen the conductors and the dielectric could be manipulated to produce the same magnetic field that Rowland produced with two currents (moving charges) in opposite directions - except Roentgen moved his dielectric between fixed charged conductors.

Nipher used the same term as you do - illusion.  These gentlemen are not Tesla, but they helped me better understand Tesla and Tesla was familiar with their work.

RE has no charge, is it a current in the dielectric? 

After all we are in a sea of dielectric and you can not get away from it.


Grumpy

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #257 on: March 24, 2008, 06:42:16 PM »
So, we can conclude that when looking at electricity, we must look at the conductor, compression, expansion (both flows or currents) and the dielectric all at the same time.

A magnetic field (and hence a current is generated) is created whenever two charges move in opposite directions in relation to a fixed dielectric or when the dielectric between two opposite charges moves (or changes?) in relation to these charges.

Hmm.  A moving (changing) dielectric generator might be an interesting device.  I wonder if RE qualifies as "moving dielectric" - synonymous with "changing dielectric"? 

We might ponder what happens when all three move in different directions.

I ought to shut up now, before I attract too much attention.

(I might be back to delete this in a few minutes, but right now - I'm HOT!)

Ren

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #258 on: March 24, 2008, 09:53:49 PM »
amazing stuff to ponder, the wonders of the universe! I hate to interrupt the train of thought, but Im sure it will continue for all that are truely involved ;)

I have a simple question for Erfinder or AC, or anyone who has built the device this thread is based on. Is it possible to build using Erfinders parts list ONLY? I was thinking last night that the circuit controller could be homemade, and  its function to fire the relay. If  it can be done just with the relay then I will continue as such.

Please continue Gentlemen!

wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #259 on: March 25, 2008, 12:25:36 AM »
@Ren

It works with a relay like I and others are doing. Granted the advent of having a rotary setup is so appealing and hard to resist but at this stage I already have enough on my plate.

@Grumpy

Don't remove your post and please take Erfinder up on his offer. Geez, that's a no brainer.

@all

Still on the EC but having troubles getting the second relay to produce. I have a few other ideas and then I will post a diagram if I need help on it. I know I'm close.

Since I rarely do only one thing, and based on Jack Durban's hint about a reed switch, I have been doing some tests with a reed switch, coil and magnet to see the effects. By placing the reed next to the coil core and starting it with the magnet and by positioning the magnet farther and father from the reed, you get to a point where you have clear oscillations. Pretty neet and simple.

Now, I have ordered some three way reed switches and plan to do the following test as per the other diagram below, and variations thereof.

The basic idea is working with flyback. (NO - not BEMF). If you hit the + and - points with a dc voltage, meaning fast on/off, at the on/off the left coil will draw in the reed to the N/O connecting the flyback of left coil to discharge into the right coil, thus pulling the the right reed connecting the right flyback to the left coil and so on. I expect the current will reverse polarities on each flyback discharge. I just wonder if with one DC hit, this can switch over several times before it stops.

The idea is you can probably connect more then two coils, as many as you want and have the whole system cascade from one to the other and then back to the first coil. I am not 100% sure this will work but will try it soon.

The reed switch has the truest reaction to the magnetic impulse and by adjusting the distance of the reed you can adjust the magnetic force you want to develop inside the coils. This type of easy switching would enable flyback to move around without dying in any electronics. Also this could be an easy switching method for multiple coil systems like a few of Tesla's patents without creating any adverse effects on the flyback.

I am wondering if there would be caps or diodes, needed, etc.

Any ideas.

Grumpy

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #260 on: March 25, 2008, 02:32:00 PM »
@Erfinder

R-I-am

allcanadian

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #261 on: March 27, 2008, 07:41:26 PM »
@all
I got a little off track for a moment and have refocused on the basics, I have found an interesting analogy in regards to teslas circuit.
If I had a perfect hard steel ball in my hand and dropped it on a large perfectly hard surface I could drop the ball and it would bounce back to it's original height. We could say this is a perfectly conservative action but when we analyse the forces involved something seems out of place. For one, upon hitting the floor the ball transforms all its momentum into a force acting downward on the floor until it comes to rest in an instant, but in order for the ball to bounce back upward the floor must be pushed downward "again" as action/reaction dictates.However this dual force cannot happen if the floor was made of let's say rubber because all the energy is slowly absorbed and released as in the lower picture, but above the actions are very abrupt and near instant reactions like when the switch is opened in teslas circuit.
In Teslas circuit we have a large self-inductance, a small self-inductance(primary), a capacitor and a circuit controller(switch). I would like you to consider how this ball analogy applies to Teslas circuit and I wil post what I see happening later, I was surprised at my conclusion and I think you will be too. ;D

wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #262 on: March 28, 2008, 06:00:43 AM »
@AC

Good observation, interesting analogy, nice question, but please confirm which Tesla circuit, yours, the EC, the ozone patent, geez I'm getting kinda mixed up and do not want to give the wrong answer.

am1ll3r

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #263 on: March 29, 2008, 03:25:25 PM »
@allcanadian

I need an analogy for your analogy... Does is the ball represent the impulse discharge from the large self-inductance?
Been thinking about it for a few days now and I just not seeing it... ???

Lets not let this thread die. ;)

allcanadian

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #264 on: March 29, 2008, 06:20:40 PM »
@wattsup
The circuit in question is teslas patent 568177 as shown below, it's interesting that I have made countless variations to this circuit but cannot in any way improve it  ;D that should tell us something about the genius of simplicity.

@am1ll3r
The analogy of the bouncing ball and Teslas circuit is not readily apparent until you build the circuit as Tesla states. First we should define the circuit components, we can call the large self-inductance(AC motor) L1, the small self-inductance(primary) L2, capacitor C and circuit controller(switch) CC. When CC closes we can see this as something set in motion as in the ball analogy position 1, but what has been set in motion? In both cases we could say energy as an applied force has produced motion, force leads to motion and both can be considered as a form of energy.So the charging of L1 can be represented as the motion of the ball from position 1 to position 2, the ball is energy--- a disturbance in the medium--matter. The impact of the ball at position 2 can be represented by the opening of CC, in this case we are concerned with the duration of the disturbance. In position 2 the ball has momentum and this momentum is the same energy that was imparted to the ball through the accelerating force of gravity. In L1 the accelerating force is a potential difference in the source battery, this potential difference produces motion as an electric current which stores energy in L1 as a magnetic field, the magnetic field is in motion as it is expanding. When CC opens the magnetic field in L1 collapses producing an electric current(inductive discharge current) in the same direction as the the original current flow. We can see this in the ball at position 2, the arrow A is pointing in the same direction as the arrow on the ball. In ball position 3 we can see a division of forces, this division of forces could be considered as happening in almost the same instant as ball position 2, in the upper picture to a greater extent in the lower picture to a lesser extent. In teslas circuit ball position 3 could represent the discharging of L1 and the charging of capacitor C. What is not well know is that the resistance of capacitor C to motion determines the voltage rise on C. If a large capacitor is used there is no voltage rise on C above the source voltage if a small capacitor is used the voltage rise will be very large. My replication of this circuit produces a voltage rise from 12v to 250v on capacitor C. In this case we could say the floor or dividing line of the ball analogy represents the capacitance C, the resilience of this line will determine the quality of the reaction. If the capacitor C is charged to only 12v--source voltage-- it has nowhere to go, it cannot return to the source battery as they are equal. If the capacitor C is charged to 250v then it could easily discharge its energy back into the 12v source battery----- or we could raise its electrical pressure(voltage) again by discharging the capacitor through L2 back into itself during the next switch closure CC producing a contiuous series of high potential oscillations in the circuit as a whole. The question is why? In the thread next door "tesla switch" they seem to be having great difficulty in retaining the energy in there circuits, they are always losing something ;D they have heat losses, massive switching losses due to electronics and seem to be losing half there energy when discharging one capacitor into another LOL ;D and somewhere along the line they expect to come out ahead-- I mean no offence trust me I have been there. In the ball analogy we need only concern ourselves with ball position 4 in the end, how much energy have we retained in the end?. To put it simply-- in  teslas circuit the motion of energy will always produce a voltage "rise", we never incure a voltage drop persay nor the losses associated with large current flows. We retain a greater majority of the energy we put into the system, the motion of energy through an electric motor performs work I think we can all agree on that, but what if this motion producing work only happens when a high potential is returning to its low potential source? What would happen if this high potential energy were discharged into an resonant LC circuit where L was in the form of an electric motor?.

Here is an interesting quote I found which explains why I believe I know less today than I did last year, I am quite confident I know nothing ;D
Quote
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge: it is those who know little, not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science. (Charles Darwin, Introduction to The Descent of Man, 1871)

Localjoe

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #265 on: March 29, 2008, 09:28:43 PM »
@AC

Ive been building for bit here and have noticed one interesting thing.  My setup is jsut like your circuit diagram except whre you have the switch in the middle i put a homade relay/coil on bolt with springy arm above it .
 
What happened is this - as the relay spead up the motor initally slowed down and seemd to "SYNC" itself with the relays on off motion.  So I could say it adopted a different timing  ;D 

Anywhoo i was mechanically limited at this point but did see ac on the very small secondary i had wound on a wooden dowel.  Current and voltage.  I think for the best speed/switching time the motor should be used because of the ease of timing. I wanted to build one exactly like his but i cant seem to find laminate plates or anything to suffice for a core that looks similar to wind feild coils on.  I was continplating using this steel cable i have as thick as a bic pen,  making a circular form with it, couple of wraps say 6 inch diameter, Taping it and winding 2 feild coils on it.  From what i gather it would be similar to his device for conversion and should still work like a motor to spin the armature i put in there / axel with magnets.  Has anyone else noticed the syncing effect with any other timing mechanism? And or have advice on building the motor for timing purposes and later projects?

                                                                           Joe
                                                                                     

wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #266 on: March 31, 2008, 02:00:51 AM »
@AC

I am putting up a diagram of your circuit as per my trials using a relay.

The relay switches but extremely fast and production on the working side is very low, about 3-4 volts. Granted the draw on the battery is low also.

My capacitor is a bank using many combinations of values but still no great production. My scope shows almost nothing, just a flat line with some minor peaks.

I tried putting a capacitor over the relay coil to slow it down but this heats up the wires very quickly. I think I will have to add another choke inline with the relay coil.

As of now, my Trial #3 is performing better than this set-up so I am kind of perplexed as to how I can improve this one. I will still use my Trial #3 to continue the EC.

With the Trial #3 setup I have done many many tests with a wide variety of chokes, transformers and capacitors,  noticing all the fine changes, etc., and with the scope I can see the current switching around (flyback), plus the first cap was getting up to 500 volts spikes that you cannot see on the digital meter but you can on the scope. Just great.

Anyways, if there are any changes you or anyone can recommend on your circuit as shown below, please let me know.


scotty1

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #267 on: March 31, 2008, 11:06:53 AM »
One time I made a circuit like Tesla's......I connected one of the secondary terminals to a flouro tube...and when I held the glass of the tube, my whole forearm felt like it was being hit my tiny bullets....just like Tesla described  ;D
Experimenting is mostly fun...except for making commutators and mechanical switches  ;)
-----------------------------------------------------
Hey Grumpy you said "Two currents - opposite directions of flow.

When they pass each other in opposite directions a magnetic field is created.

When Thomson discovered the electron, his arrangement was biased and the electron detected was negative, he missed the other one.".......
I like that one!!!......i'll send you the word doc I made with the diagram from a text book....
Don't let anyone change your mind......if you think it...it must be right  ;D
Cheers
Scotty

allcanadian

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #268 on: March 31, 2008, 05:47:21 PM »
@wattsup
I think your circuit should look more like the picture below, the relay coils are in series with the choke.I also reversed the primary/secondary as the purpose is to raise voltage on the cap. When the push button is closed the relay contacts short the larger series circuit, this opens the relay contacts and the relay becomes self-acting.

am1ll3r

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #269 on: March 31, 2008, 06:40:26 PM »
@anyone
Can you tell me what way initial current from the battery flows? positive to negative or negative to positive. I know there are (mainstream theories) but as Tesla built this circuit what was his way of viewing current flow?

Thanks,