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Author Topic: The Tesla Project  (Read 253819 times)

quantum1024

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #195 on: March 16, 2008, 07:02:02 PM »

@ armagdn03
 Ahhh, THANK YOU! I think i get it. the charge discharge cycling time.

P.S. Sorry about the other recent posts, I apologize. I did not read deep enough into what you where saying till later. your very knowledgeable and i thank you for sharing it.

armagdn03

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #196 on: March 16, 2008, 08:56:37 PM »
no problem! no need to apologize either! if you didn't question the "rules" you probably wouldn't be here, no need to follow like sheep, lol  ;D

Maximumgravity1

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #197 on: March 16, 2008, 09:13:45 PM »
So, I am going to veer off topic a bit, and get back to the Ozone patent and Erfinders list of parts.  Sorry to disrupt, as I think some of the info being exchanged is interesting.

In looking at 568,177 there are three basic elements - a source of high self inductance (the motor windings - 568,177 Lines 90-98), a capacitor that must be discharged to create oscillation (568,177 Lines 32-40), and an inductive coil to step up potential and provide the "working" circuit its source (568,177 pg2 Lines3-6).

I do not have all the same parts as Erfinder recommended, but I think I have the basic idea.  I have a SPDT relay, a 47uf cap, and two 4700uf caps wired in parallel.  For my choke coil, I am using my Cook Battery coils primaries (the small wires) wired in series with each other.  My Cook coils are over 3 feet long, with over 1700-2200 turns of #28 magnet wire.  So 3400-4800 turns of wire.

In short, what I see is that we went to all the trouble to build some high self-inductance with the relay coil, and the choke coil.  Somehow we need to use that.  The way I did this was to run my positive battery lead through my Cook battery Primaries, then jump into the power side of the relay coil (sorry I don't know the terminology of relays).  A short jumper lead from the relay power coil "out"side to the "switched" side common post.  From the common I jumped off to one side of the 47uf cap.  I ran the other side of the cap through a #10 wire that I stripped the insulation off of, and ran it through the center of a #18 or so solid copper wire coil that I wrapped around a screw driver for 2 dozen or so turns.  Then connected to the "Normally Open" side of my relay.

Off of my secondary (N in the patent) I connected my parallel 4700uf caps.  I haven't installed my push button yet, as I have just been jumping my batteries directly to the relay terminals.  BTW, my batteries are two series connected 6V "lantern" batteries.

Two points of interest, when I touch my battery lead to my "NC" post on my relay, I get a high pitched hum/buzz.  Not what I expected.  Almost sounds like a little speaker or horn.  What is interesting, if I connect the second half of my 47uf cap/coil to the "NC" side(instead of the "NO" side, I get very distinct hammering of the switch - more of what I expected.  It is much slower - several RPM per second, and much more pronounced, but this is the equivalent of moving the entire 568177 patent to one side of the circuit controller and having everything in series.  The interesting note, is you can see that the higher resistance makes a difference in relay operation.

The really interesting point, in connecting my multimeter to the outputs of my 24 turn coil "N" - across my 4700uf caps - I have gotten some AMAZING voltage readings.  I have seen a steady 9.0V AC (yes AC - Tesla said "oscillations" so I switched to the AC side when I was getting minimal DC readings), and had a hard time duplicating it when I tried to add another cap to run an accidentally purchased AC Relay.  Later, I got over 450V AC, and watched it slowly bleed down by fluctuation over a 30 second period to around 30V AC.  In trying to duplicate these sporadic attempts, I am finding I get pretty consistent big spikes if I short my battery lead to one of the other leads on the relay.  If I put my battery lead down between the "NO" and "NC" posts, I see the most consistent fluctuations, but can't keep it steady )I am thinking the discharges are out of time/sporadic).

What I am guessing is one of two things:
1.)  I am not getting a full/consistent discharge from my 47uf cap.  Even in looking at the 568,177 patent, I see the cap can only discharge when the control circuit is "closed"
2.)  When the relay switches to "NO" I am running the full inductive load plus the battery charge to one side of the 47uf cap - which I feel is correct in looking at the patent.  Again tied to the same problem above, I wonder if the relay is not making a full "open" contact, since i am getting this weird high-pitch hum.  Maybe if I increased my resistance/self inductance on the "NO" leg going to the cap, it would help open that switch fully..I just don't know.  I don't know enough about these things to understand what that relay noise is signifying.

I am thinking that by shorting between the "NO" and "NC" terminals, I am getting what I am supposed to be after.  I am just not sure why I am seeing it only when shorted.  Of course, the biggest rise - always - is when I remove the battery lead.  This also tells me I don't have something quite right, as I am not getting the "collapse" I should be.

Any thoughts???

Maximumgravity1

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #198 on: March 16, 2008, 10:12:45 PM »
Replying to myself...but I got it....

I am getting a consistent flux of 150VAC to 640VAC

I took my relay as set up to begin with, but dropped my cap leg off.  So all my inductive load is running into my powered side, coming back out and right into my common.  From my "NC" side, I am running to a second relay "power in".  From my "Power out" I am running to one leg of my 47uf cap.  On the other leg of the cap, I run into my M/N inductive coil, then directly into the common side of my second relay.  From the "NC" post of my second relay, I run to my "NC" post of my first relay.  SO ironically the "NC" side of my first relay is powering my second, and also where the 47uf cap is dumping/discharging.

In retyping this, I am not sure the second relay is necessary as I have it wired.

I am still playing with a few things, but I am still getting varying results.  Now I am ranging from about 12V AC to about 250V AC.  I can definitely HEAR when I am getting more voltage - it sounds "strained".  I have seen a surge as high as 680v AC on one of these "strains".  More later....

EDIT:
On continued testing, I am getting readings on HV DC as well.  It is still sporadic and tends to fluctuate, so I think something still isn't quite right.  But I am seeing voltages from 12-350.  It goes through a little adjustment period, then starts really screaming, and straining, and will spike as high as 450+, then settles down a bit, and will bleed back down to around 30-50.  It will continue to discharge slowly to around 12, then head back up to about 30-50, start straining and squealing, and over 250 again.  It seems to want to "bleed down" when left runing for a few minutes and settle into the 12-50 range with sporadic surges...strange.

EDIT 2:
Maybe I just can't read a multimeter.  Maybe it is because the energy is pulsed and/or radiant - but if I switch the meter between 500HV, 200VDC and 20VDC, all that happens is my decimal place moves to the left for each setting.  Anyway, still getting some interesting results.  I rthink part of my inconsistency is bad connections due to aligator clips and small components.  I have been hesitant to solder until I got something working.  I am getting close enough, a few minor resolders might not be so bad.  So far checking the voltage across the 47uF cap has had the highest numbers.  I can't get too concerned, as this is a hodgepodge of components of various resistances, so it seems the concept is working.  I have been able to remove my second relay again, and had similar results.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2008, 01:25:48 AM by Maximumgravity1 »

quantum1024

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #199 on: March 16, 2008, 11:22:51 PM »
Sorry for the interrupt.  just posting my thoughts on this control disk problem. this is 50/50 duty cycle.. i'm also thinking that more brushes can be placed around the 2 disks for more contacts if I need them, this also allows for setting the degrees of when events happen. rather then just 90 and 180, now it would be selectable.  i'm also debating on the motor to use, does it matter if it's AC or DC if i have control disks?
Thanks.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2008, 11:52:12 PM by quantum1024 »

allcanadian

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #200 on: March 17, 2008, 03:17:31 AM »
@quantum1024
I use a circuit contoller like this only mine uses eight segments instead of the four shown here. As well the duty cycle should be 50/50 on/off, to do this calculate the circumference then divide by 16. You can see that one brush is near the disk center, I do this to reduce wear on the brush as the closer you get to the disk center the lower the surface speed of the brush so it lasts longer.

quantum1024

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #201 on: March 17, 2008, 03:42:37 AM »
@ allcanadian -THANK YOU for that info. the next one i'll calculate as you suggested and consider the brush placement, I was thinking about it and the speed on the inside vs the outside.

heres what i just built over the last few hours. a drive shaft and pully from a vcr, a small dc motor from vcr, a copper clad board which i cut and then rounded and then used a rotto tool to grind off the copper i did'nt want. I then put a small copper ring (soldered) around for conduction between the two segments of copper. Now i just have to glue the boards to the shaft. then i can start on the rest of the circuits.

What kind of brushs are you using, I was just going to make something up that would work. thanks!

quantum1024

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #202 on: March 17, 2008, 08:25:15 AM »
So here's a schematic of my switcher-controller. not shown is the brushes touching the control disks. almost everything came form vcr's and my wood pile. :-)

wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #203 on: March 17, 2008, 01:50:58 PM »
@Maximum

Just yesterday I was looking at my cook coils (I have 3 sets of much smaller ones) and wondering to use the primary (always said backwards lol), which is the secondary these days.

I am having a hard time following your connections but from what I have understood, you are first going through your cook coil, then to the relay coil. You may try going through the relay coil first.

In the patent, the motor coil equals the relay coil and Tesla says a choke coil can be "added" to increase self-inductance but I do not think he says expressly if it is before or after the motor coil, but one would presume he meant after the motor coil.

Also, I may be wrong but if you had a diode on the secondary working side, the voltage would then show as DC because it is acting like a bridge rectifier. I am sure @AC would know more.

If you can, please make a circuit diagram and post it so we know exactly what you are doing and therefore could comment more precisely.

@quantum1

Good work.
I hope you are going to put all those vcr parts back when you're finished. lol

Maximumgravity1

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #204 on: March 17, 2008, 02:44:39 PM »
@Wattsup

After playing around a bit more last night, I found I can get a HV DC reading using only one lead of my multimeter (??? weird...), and possibly explains some of my sporadic readings yesterday, and possibly explains why switching the meter only resulted in a moving of the decimal place (i.e. 361 became 36.1 then 3.61 in going from 500 HV setting to 20vDC).  In diagramming out my circuit, I realized that I am not seeing where the 47uf cap is closing both halves of the cap and discharging.  It is interesting to note, in the diagram labeled "Maximumgravity's Layout 2" below, I could jump my battery lead to "NO" and it would only pulse the relay for a few seconds, then quit.  Obviously, that half of the cap was "full".  So it appears in doing all these experiments, that I am managing to get cap bleed down of some sort, but not really a discharge.  This also explains the "surging" when the relay really starts to squeal...

Layout 3 seems to be the most correct to me, and it wasn't until I had started making changes that I discovered I could get a reading off of one lead, so when I get home from work tonight, I will play around a bit more with that layout (and obviously put the high inductance load into the coil instead of the cap) and see what I can find out.  However, setup 2 seemed to provide the best results - seems odd, but might make sense in that both halves of the cap are getting fully charged by pulse, but not an adequate discharge.

EDIT
As mentioned before, the two relay setup seemed abit of overkill, and didn't seem to be doing anything that the one relay couldnt.  Diagram's 1 and 4 are variations of the same thing, but sometimes i have to see something drawn out before I can visualize it.

EDIT2
I just had a thought, in looking at circuit 3, if I put the cap and coil leads on the "NO" post, and the battery lead only on "NC" that should give what I am looking for.  I am sure I tried this yesterday a few times, but will look into it again tonight.

wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #205 on: March 17, 2008, 07:49:40 PM »
@Maximumgravity1

Sorry I did not recognize you and called you Maximum. I remember we had PM'd several times regarding your big Cook Coil. So I gather you managed to work out the problem of a short in the coils.  I was also thinking of using my AluCookCoil (since the Primary could be removed easilly leaving only a nice secondary coil for a choke) with this set-up but was mostly afraid that the wire would be too fine. What the heck. I'll try it.

Nice drawings.

I think the coil of your relay should be first, because as you are showing, if your Cook Coil discharges, it will go the the relay coil.
You might want to try the circuit diagram shown here;
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3972.msg77661.html#msg77661

Also, get yourself a DPDT relay. Actually two if you want to continue on with the EC as this is what had been prescribed. You will also require a diode.

Lastly, your transformer with only one primary wire seems, well the only word I have is "weird". I don't know if it will be able to transfer as well as a standard transformer coil, but hey, live and learn.

quantum1024

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #206 on: March 18, 2008, 05:23:58 AM »
Egor, throw the third switch… It’s Alive, Alive!

The controller turns on with a nice dc motor hum, and then the circuit kicks in and orange/yellow sparks start shooting everywhere. Very neat and cool to look at in a dark room. just ran a couple of single tests rapidly and everything checks out A.ok. I believe I've have solved the brush problem, now i can install any type of brush and adjust angles. I really enjoyed this fast build. now i can start testing Tesla circuits they way they where designed. I hope others follow and build it and better versions, it's more versatile and more dependable then using relays, and more fun watching it.

P.S. those are wire clips holding copper solder wick! and, 14 gauge copper house wire.

Have Fun!!!

M@rcel

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #207 on: March 18, 2008, 10:29:12 AM »
Having a reputation of being off-topic, I'll try again:  ;)

This picture was uploaded to the EVGRAY yahoo group today. It seems to fit in with the work being done here.


allcanadian

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #208 on: March 18, 2008, 04:49:23 PM »
@marcel
I would make a small change to your circuit, in the red circle the diode has been replaced with a capacitor. The diode in the circuit you posted would basically kill any resonant rise effect, in teslas circuit we use the inertia of a large self-inductance to set a series circuit including the source battery in oscillation. Notice that when the capacitor in the red circle is charged/discharged it is in series with the source battery, this is the series circuit in oscillation.The relay circuits would basically "kick" the series circuit to maintain the series oscilations. As well in the relay circuits there are no components to recover the electrical inertia effects of either the relay coils nor the primary coils. Personally I prefer inductors or choking coils over transformers, I think they are much more efficient.
Nice circuit though :)

M@rcel

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #209 on: March 18, 2008, 07:28:55 PM »
@marcel
I would make a small change to your circuit, in the red circle the diode has been replaced with a capacitor. The diode in the circuit you posted would basically kill any resonant rise effect, in teslas circuit we use the inertia of a large self-inductance to set a series circuit including the source battery in oscillation. Notice that when the capacitor in the red circle is charged/discharged it is in series with the source battery, this is the series circuit in oscillation.The relay circuits would basically "kick" the series circuit to maintain the series oscilations. As well in the relay circuits there are no components to recover the electrical inertia effects of either the relay coils nor the primary coils. Personally I prefer inductors or choking coils over transformers, I think they are much more efficient.
Nice circuit though :)
Just to keep things straight, the picture was uploaded to the EVGRAY group by goodreau1. It's not mine.