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Author Topic: The Tesla Project  (Read 182461 times)

Offline armagdn03

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #45 on: January 30, 2008, 08:07:42 PM »
alcadian,

 If you havent seen this recently, you should watch it!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6461713170757457294&q=eric+dollard&total=3&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

there is a second part thats not hard to find too.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #45 on: January 30, 2008, 08:07:42 PM »

Offline wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2008, 02:22:24 PM »
@all

Received my toroid transformer 240-12vac 10 amps and hooked it up. Immediately I noticed that the parameters are different. The relay is not acting the same with the same capacitor so I have to do some additional tests with both the primary and secondary as the primary, then move on to using both relays. 

Back soon.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2008, 04:40:22 PM by wattsup »

Offline Schpankme

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2008, 05:13:37 AM »
@Grumpy, Smart observation. This means I could be using the wrong cap in the wrong place.


Nikola Tesla published - Resonance methods of electric power transmission

www.viesh.ru/Development%20of%20Resonance%20methods%20of%20electric%20power%20transmission.htm

  o Electric circuit power supply
      (a)  transmitting and receiving
      (b) devices by Avramenko for resonance transfer of electric power
      (c)notations are explained in the text

  o Avramenko's plug for current rectifying in the single-wire line

  o Circuits
      (a) voltage doubling circuit of monophase
      (b) input of three-phase bridge rectifier

  o Testing of the resonance


- Schpankme



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2008, 05:13:37 AM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #48 on: February 01, 2008, 10:31:07 PM »
@Schpankme (what a name lol)

Thanks for that link. Guys you should look at it. Got me thinking about the TPU and SM (so when is that news). The transmission over one wire. What if the LTPU horizontal wire was exactly this. A six meter wire (about 6 turns in the LTPU) that connects  from one side of the vertical coils to the other. The thicker vertical coils at the LPTU zero point could be the primary. I made a quick diagram to show the crazy relationships. The LTPU could be two horizontally placed Telsa coils. Crazy, I know, but hey. Look a the block diagram below and here is the text that was with it.

Fig. 8. Electric circuit of RS
1 - frequency converter;
2 - resonance circuit of step-up transformer;
3 - single-wire line;
4 - resonance circuit of step-down transformer;
5 - rectifier-inverter;
6 ? load

@All

Regarding Erfinders Challenge (which it definitely is) I need some help with something regarding my two relay coils. When you look a Tesla's patent 568177, the two coils of the motor are in series. So I decided to put both relay coils in series with the primary of  my toroid, put 12vdc on it, but nothing. Then I put just the relays in series and connected them to the 12vdc and again nothing. No action. I tried each relay alone on the 12vdc and each one works. I measured the ohms of each relay coil and they are 93.9 and 94.2 ohms. Is it possible that the coils in the relays have a high resistance and this does not permit them to be connected in series. Weird. Anyone. Or do I need bigger relays. Erfinder asked for 12 vdc and 12 amps. Mine are 12vdc and 10 amp.

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Offline armagdn03

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2008, 01:41:50 AM »
dont worry about putting them in series or whatever, just worry about having a system of high self induction, low self induction, circuit controller, and condenser, as long as you have those in the configuration shown, you will get what you want.

In the patent, there is only one circuit controller, you have two relays which is two controllers, did tesla connect two motors in series to control the circuit? what could the second relay be used for then?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #49 on: February 02, 2008, 01:41:50 AM »
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Offline Ren

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #50 on: February 02, 2008, 02:29:24 AM »
Is the second relay used to oscillate the potential from the secondary cap into the load?

Offline allcanadian

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #51 on: February 02, 2008, 07:04:06 PM »
Here is a neat circuit I have been testing which may look familiar, starting at the negative terminal it includes --- a high self inductance, a low self inductance, a capacitor and the positive terminal of a battery. It also includes a circuit disrupter or switch to disrupt current flow. The scopeshot included is from this circuit, from a single 12v pulse through the switch.
This scopeshot had been bothering me for some time, there is something odd about it I could not figure out. The oscilloscope probes were placed across the capacitor. For one the input pulse is 12v, but notice in the scopeshot the smaller waveform outlined in red to the left is approximately 50v not 12v. The larger waveform, the inductive dicharge current is about 250v. Near the center of the scopeshot I had highlighted the waveforms in blue (inductive discharge) and red, notice how both waveforms rise and fall in the same instance and that below the black line or zero voltage boundary constituting a change in direction the pattern repeats. So we could say our waveforms follow each other and change direction together. What is odd is that there are two currents here, it seems that the inductive discharge current leaves the high self inductance travels through the low self inductance(primary) and charges the capacitor plate ----- this would compress the 12v (red) charge that was on the other plate to 50v which is forced into the batteries (+) terminal. This higher potential on the battery and capacitor plate then pushes the (blue) inductive discharge current back in the opposite direction through the low self inductance and back against the high self induction producing the dampened series of oscillations we see in the scopeshot. So in this case the battery would seem to have the elastic qualities of a capacitor. What is not expected is that the (blue)inductive discharge current and (red) conventional current would seem to retain there distinct qualities while being seperated by the elastic qualities of the capacitor, the capacitor acting as an elastic boundary between the two currents.
Hopefully this may help you in solving erfinders challenge.
Regards

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #51 on: February 02, 2008, 07:04:06 PM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #52 on: February 03, 2008, 05:01:14 PM »
@All

Had I not gone to a party last night (got in very late), I had started to prepare a post quoting the same passage of Teslas' patent. I knew it was the key.

The reason for my question about the ohm of my relays, it was evident that my relay either alone or even paired (series not possible and parallel ran the voltage of the battery down to 12.7 which never happened before), which I tried was not providing the proper self-induction (given the relays very small furty coil) but the problem was no other component was permitted in the materials list to act as a chocking coil, until today.

Anyways, when I ordered my transformer, I ordered two just in case, so back to the drawing board.

Funny thing, under my initial (one relay) diagram, my standard transformer (240-24vdc) worked much better then the toroid. I made voltages up to 94 vdc. But with the toroid, voltage would go up to around 18vdc. I tried both with pulsed primary and pulsed secondary and both had about the same results. And amazingly, the voltage on my battery is now back to 12.8. There is definitely some power being fed back to the battery, either as power or as a harmonic. I can probably prove this by adding a diode on the battery to prevent any flyback.

I had also noticed at with a very small voltage value of the primary capacitor, the relay would switch just enough to connect to the N/O contact, but very lightly so there was not enough contact. Definitely the relays had to work a tad slower so the choke coil will help.

Will do some ohms measuring of my coils and do some more tests and let you know here.

@Erfinder

I just need to know if I manage to get this working at a stupendous level, do I have permission to post it here, as is, since I do not want to get into a situation similar to @innovationstation (hey where is he anyways).

Added:

@allcanadian

Thanks for your post also. Very apropos. I will do some scope shots also when it is time and let you guys explain them since I will surely not be able to.

Offline armagdn03

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #53 on: February 03, 2008, 07:32:50 PM »
Here is a neat circuit I have been testing which may look familiar, starting at the negative terminal it includes --- a high self inductance, a low self inductance, a capacitor and the positive terminal of a battery. It also includes a circuit disrupter or switch to disrupt current flow. The scopeshot included is from this circuit, from a single 12v pulse through the switch.
This scopeshot had been bothering me for some time, there is something odd about it I could not figure out. The oscilloscope probes were placed across the capacitor. For one the input pulse is 12v, but notice in the scopeshot the smaller waveform outlined in red to the left is approximately 50v not 12v. The larger waveform, the inductive dicharge current is about 250v. Near the center of the scopeshot I had highlighted the waveforms in blue (inductive discharge) and red, notice how both waveforms rise and fall in the same instance and that below the black line or zero voltage boundary constituting a change in direction the pattern repeats. So we could say our waveforms follow each other and change direction together. What is odd is that there are two currents here, it seems that the inductive discharge current leaves the high self inductance travels through the low self inductance(primary) and charges the capacitor plate ----- this would compress the 12v (red) charge that was on the other plate to 50v which is forced into the batteries (+) terminal. This higher potential on the battery and capacitor plate then pushes the (blue) inductive discharge current back in the opposite direction through the low self inductance and back against the high self induction producing the dampened series of oscillations we see in the scopeshot. So in this case the battery would seem to have the elastic qualities of a capacitor. What is not expected is that the (blue)inductive discharge current and (red) conventional current would seem to retain there distinct qualities while being seperated by the elastic qualities of the capacitor, the capacitor acting as an elastic boundary between the two currents.
Hopefully this may help you in solving erfinders challenge.
Regards


Very cool! Look very closely at those shots, and you will notice that they do not just "rise and fall" together, but that their relationship is slightly more complicated. You will notice that the peak of one, does not line up with the peak of the other, in fact they are shifted from one another. Those in EE will not be surprised with this, but it is very interesting when you consider we are looking at votage in a scope.

The two currents you are speaking of, are actually one current, being measured at different points and showing different time relationships. They are 90 degrees out of phase with one another, and interestingly they display the EXACT same characteristics as say a pendulum. Look at a pendulum and you will notice that the kenetic energy (movement energy) is 90 degrees out of phase with the Potential (static energy). In fact all oscillatory systems behave in a way similar to this.

What becomes even more interesting is noting how where the peaks are maximum and what this means, and where they are minimum and knowing what this represents, what is not shown on the scope, but inffered (the scope will not measure many things) is just as important also.

For example, minimum voltage could equate to maximum current, but this is not shown. These are not curious things if you start thinking about the actual physics of how these devices work, not just accepting that they do. What are capacitors and inductors, find out exactly how they behave with one another.

And good circuit!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #53 on: February 03, 2008, 07:32:50 PM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #54 on: February 05, 2008, 02:03:23 PM »
@all

First off I found this off topic write up on velocity factors that touches upon alot of what is being discussed these days on the threads. Please pass it on.

http://www.qsl.net/vk5br/TransLines.htm

This is me thinking out load.

- Brain on -

OK, Erfinder says the toroid secondary should be between the relay coil and the short circuit contact and his is 21.5 ohms. He says his relay is 144 ohms. There is required a second transformer and his primary of that transformer is 21.5 to 24 ohms.

My two identical toroids are as follows;

Primary is a dual coil of 110vac in parallel or 220vac in series. Each coil is 5.7 ohms each, in parallel 2.8 ohms and in series 11.6 ohms

Secondary is a dual coil of 12vac in parallel or 24vac in series. Each coil is 0.1 ohms each, in parallel 0.2 ohms and in series 0.1 ohms.

My 12vdc relays are 93.9 and 94.2 ohms.

I also have another 240vac to 24 vac transformer but the primary is only 7.2 ohms and the secondary is again 0.1 ohms.

So I went today to my local EE outlet and spent a good 1 1/2 hours with my multimeter checking an endless number of transformers for their ohms. The transformers that are in the range of 240/12vac at 8-10 amps are now where near the ohmage ratings required. I found a few choke coils with like 34 ohms the size of a quarter, very tiny so impossible to handle the amps ratings.

I checked all the solenoid ohms, most where in the 1000s range, checked industrial relay coils also in the 1000s, then all types of transformers but nothing, I mean nothing comes close to those specs. I even compared my multimeter to one in store to make sure mine was working properly and it does.

- Brain off - ( I know - it's always off. ya ya) lol

I am lost. The main point is with all the info Erfinder gave on this thread, there is more then enough info for a build, but the specs don't make sense to me, and when it does not make sense in my mind, I usually don't move until it does. If I need a toroid secondary of around 21.5 ohms, I would need 215 of my current toroids in series. Ouch. Do I need to make my own choke?

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Offline armagdn03

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #55 on: February 05, 2008, 05:50:19 PM »
There are several things you could do to gain a better understanding of what you are doing.

First go here....   http://www.lautsprechershop.de/tools/index_en.htm?/tools/t_p_schwingkreis_en.htm

Here you have a calculator, where if you have an inductor and a capacitor hooked in parallel. You can change their values and take note of what the natural resonant frequency of those items together are, this is in the yellow box labeled "near infinite impedance at"

If "plucked" your oscillator circuit (inductor and capacitor above) will vibrate at its resonant frequency.

This is good stuff to know!

Another good way to figure your values out would be to place some sort of a non inductive load (bank of lights or something) and adjust component values till you get a max output, use feel and common sense rather than take a thousand readings.

Get something that works well, then take measurements.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #55 on: February 05, 2008, 05:50:19 PM »
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Offline am1ll3r

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #56 on: February 06, 2008, 09:20:56 PM »
Hello to anyone paying attention to this thread :)
Just wanna add my 2 cents to this...
I am at most a  tinkerer who has too much time at work to browse the Internet trying to teach myself basic electronics. I didn't include any values to the components as I am just trying to get an understanding of how this circuit may be laid out. See what you think.
Thanks,
am1ller



Offline wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #57 on: February 09, 2008, 08:42:31 PM »
@am1ll3r

Thanks for putting up your schematic. I changed my present set-up to try your design but just on the primary side with a cap and diode on the secondary, as I had before and I am sad to say that there is no effect. This is not to say the design is not good or anything like that. It would require more testing with different caps and chokes, but in general, the voltage on the secondary side does not rise at all, whereas in my initial set-up, voltage gradually rises on the secondary side up to 90 volts.

I do notice however on the scope that spikes are created in the primary side but not enough to make any rise in power.

So for now I will revert back to my original set-up and continue working from there.


Offline wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #58 on: February 11, 2008, 09:44:45 PM »
Son of a gun. I am actually getting shocked. Like a 9 volts battery on the tongue, but simply by holding the two wires that I connect to test primary caps. I am still on the primary side and have not worked out the relay on the secondary side. But I am getting shocks.

My relay coil is probably too big. Erfinders is 141 ohm, mine is 93 ohm. I have a smaller one that is at 160 ohm so I will try it with the same set-up and see if there is any change, since I feel I am not getting enough action from the choke coil and capacitor. It's as if the relay coil should hold back the power and the short should release it. But I can keep a small 12 volt light light off the secondary and the voltage can still rise, so this is an improvement.

Erfinder says try my own values. So I am. The fact that the choke ohms and the primary of the transformer should be in the same range is difficult to find.

The system is very sensitive to the probes of my scope. When I put channel A on a location I can see a certain waveform, but when I put the channel B somewhere else, the A waveform changes. Also, at 10x I can not see much waveform, so at 1x I can, but at 1x the waveforms are to big for my scope screen at the maximum 5 volts div and at 1ms. Crazy.

There are too many things happening to describe so I will just keep up playing with this, integrate the second relay and see what happens.

Offline allcanadian

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #59 on: February 12, 2008, 03:35:49 AM »
Here is another clue from patent 568177----
Quote
"means for charging the condenser by such circuit and discharging it through the primary of the transformer"
and in patent 568178,page 1-line 40
Quote
"and what may be regarded as the local circuits, comprising the high self-induction for charging the condenser and the circuit of low self-induction into which the condenser discharges"

Tesla has stated the condenser discharges into the circuit of low self-induction, the primary -----  only the primary---- as the high self-induction is stated as the charging circuit not the discharging circuit. Tesla said these circuits can be considered interconnected but regarded a "practically distinct", that is the circuit of high self-inductance, circuit of low self-inductance and the secondary transformer.
So many clues  ;D
I just had to edit this in  ;)
Quote
Note that the presence of electric current does not detract from the electrostatic forces nor from the sparking, from the corona discharge, or other phenomena. Both phenomena can exist simultaneously in the same system
« Last Edit: February 12, 2008, 11:10:59 PM by allcanadian »

 

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