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Author Topic: The Tesla Project  (Read 219811 times)

armagdn03

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 441
Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2008, 05:16:22 AM »
nice Ren! Now figure ressonance into the equation!

wattsup

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2606
Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2008, 07:36:39 AM »
@All

This will take time. There are two DPDT relays, that makes 4 potential relay switches with twelve potential destinations per on/off. There are many many possible mixes with two relays, a transformer, two caps, a diode and a battery. Lots of potential mixes.

So I started by replicating the Tesla Ozone Patent #568177 by using only one pole of one relay. I used the relay coil as the patents motor coil and worked my way off both ends.

I put a circuit diagram below. Sorry if it looks elementary but I am not too good with circuits and EE.

When the button was pushed to on, the relay would rattle. My voltmeter was on each side of the secondary capacitor. The voltage went up to about 26 volts at about 1 volt per second, and then it still went up but in increments of .1 volts then .01 volts. I stopped it at 29 volts cause it made too much noise for this late hour so I'll try it again tomorrow and see just how high it will go. Don't forget this is a 240 to 24 volts AC transformer.

This is just the beginning. What a panic. I have to get the second relay to double my oscillations, maybe get more juice. With one relay, I think I can do reverse polarity switching so I'll try that also. Maybe brew me some AC.

Thaelin

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 1042
Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2008, 08:52:47 AM »
@ wattsup
In your circuit, you place the primary as the primary and to obtain hv here, you would need to reverse the role of these windings. In on the 24v side and output on the 230v side.
I did notice that you made the assumption that the caps are electrolytic, not sure that would be the case. Knowing somewhat how erfinder thinks, he would follow tesla and be nonpolar at least on the 47uf.
As for the relays, I can only surmise that they will be used in a mechanical oscilator function. Just how escapes me at this time. More playing around will tell. One will oscilate and turn on the other to perform the shorting function of the charged cap to the "primary (24v side)".

As erfinder stated, if given out right you will not value it as much as if you have to earn it the hard way. Consider some one who wins a lottery and how fast its gone compared to if you have to earn it by hard work.

thaelin

armagdn03

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 441
Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2008, 03:50:08 PM »
To make a solenoid oscillate....

There will be several connection as follows:

Two connections to the electromagnetic coil, generally at least one reed lead, and two contacts which touch the reed. One is automatically connected in the relays off position, and the other is contacted when the relay is turned on.

Connect the relay so that the contact that is connected to the reed when off goes to one pole of the power source. Now connect the reed contact to one side of the electromagnet. Now connect the other contact on the electromagnet to the other side of the power source.

In this configuration, the power is turned on, since the electromagnet is connected to the reed, which starts out completing the circuit, the magnet will fire, pulling the reed away from its contact, breaking its connection turning it off, returning the reed to its contact to turn the magnet on again.

Careful with connecting multiples, as using more than one will give a more erratic frequency (you will notice that it is erratic to begin with). Once you have the voltage high enough on the secondary, good ol spark gaps work well as circuit controllers, but the voltage should be at least 3000 to give a breakdown of 1mm of air.
(edit: i did not see erfinders last post, forget the spark gaps till you have what you have down)

Also, recall that in these types of transformers the change in time of current produces your voltage, this means that you want the arc in the controller to extinguish as quick and establish as quick as possible. Tesla gave many clues on how this could be done.

also, notice that frequency of oscillation is somewhat dependant on the power through the coil, up to saturation, then no difference. Try different ways to give yourself a wider range of frequency choice, (hint, look at the spring)

Using these devices I have gotten freq ranges over 15,000, to 20,000, but they are simple good for learning as they are. I will post a circuit for a kick ass mechanical controller when I am back home. Remember speed is not absolutely necessary, harmonic relationships are, between what and what is up to you to find out! (its not hard)

This is a simple replication I threw together a while back with a home made "relay" or "linnear motor" the Flyback represents the primary and secondary in one package.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 04:56:03 PM by armagdn03 »

armagdn03

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 441
Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2008, 05:02:21 PM »
Here is a modified circuit controller I built (now disassembled) which was quite slick

the operation is the same as the relay, however there is another coil added that pulls in an opposite direction as the first. When contact is made one side of the reed, it is drawn away like in the relay, however upon being drawn away, it contacts another contact, and an opposing coil pulls it back into its origional position. With this, you cannot even hardly see the movement, incredibly fast. note, only one coil is used at a time.

(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb275/tortuga0303/Picture002.jpg)

This is the magnet setup without the reed,

(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb275/tortuga0303/Picture003.jpg)

This is with reed in place with no contacts shown

(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb275/tortuga0303/Picture005.jpg)

here one can see the minute spacing between the magnets and the reed.

wattsup

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2606
Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2008, 05:24:53 PM »
@Thaelin

Thanks for both posts.

Pulsing the primary brought the voltage up to 31.15 and it increased slowly by .01 increments.

Now I tried pulsing the secondary, just switching the primary and secondary connections, and voltage shot up to 90 volts rather quickly in .1 volts increments. I stopped it a 90 volts for now because my capacitor is 75 vdc rated.

While operating the pulses, I put the meter on AC and there is nothing. Just a .004 volts so there is no AC while operating.

I have left the other N/O terminal of the relay open because I noticed that the relay pulsing is so fast that the relay Common does not have "time" to contact it, so basically, if pulsing these relay, the N/O terminals are useless. That's good because if it is useless for me, it must be useless for Erfinders' also, and this just canceled 4 potential variables from the equation.

@armagdn03

Thanks for your input. The diagram I show above is doing the relay pulsing. I have noticed placing a small neo near the relay will alter the pulsing rate.

armagdn03

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 441
Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #36 on: January 28, 2008, 05:39:50 PM »
@Thaelin

Thanks for both posts.

Pulsing the primary brought the voltage up to 31.15 and it increased slowly by .01 increments.

Now I tried pulsing the secondary, just switching the primary and secondary connections, and voltage shot up to 90 volts rather quickly in .1 volts increments. I stopped it a 90 volts for now because my capacitor is 75 vdc rated.

While operating the pulses, I put the meter on AC and there is nothing. Just a .004 volts so there is no AC while operating.

I have left the other N/O terminal of the relay open because I noticed that the relay pulsing is so fast that the relay Common does not have "time" to contact it, so basically, if pulsing these relay, the N/O terminals are useless. That's good because if it is useless for me, it must be useless for Erfinders' also, and this just canceled 4 potential variables from the equation.

@armagdn03

Thanks for your input. The diagram I show above is doing the relay pulsing. I have noticed placing a small neo near the relay will alter the pulsing rate.

Interesting observations, I think you will change your mind about the AC component in time, remember, ac does not need to cross the zero point. perhaps you could more accurately call it AC with a DC bias, or DC with an AC component (hint: where do these occur? at what rates, why?)

Also, yes adding a magnet will alter the rate of contact, however I think you will find it to be mostly useless with the relay. The magnet, and the plate being pulled by the magnet are ferromagnetic, which means that they will act strongly with the neo, this is not helpful here, if you wanted to try magnetic quencing you would need to make sure the magnets are near the contacts only (which are made out of magnetically "safe" copper with a hard metal coating, and do not affect the electromagnet. This will not alter your freq, but it will alter its quenching rate which is most desirable,

Schpankme

• Full Member
• Posts: 133
Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2008, 12:10:10 AM »
... the AC component in time ... DC with an AC component (hint: where do these occur? at what rates, why?)

The AC component wave form implies part of another signal.  DC bias ?

- Schpankme

wattsup

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2606
Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2008, 02:08:02 PM »
Using my above diagram but with the secondary and primary switched, I went out and got a slew of 47uf capacitors having different AC voltages as follows;

400, 315, 250, 100, 100, 63, 25, 25, 16, 16, 16,

The repeating numbers indicate same cap voltage but different brand. Of these the 25v cap works the best offering a faster voltage rise time off the primary and an action on the relay that permitted the common terminal to contact the N/O terminal. So now I can use the N/O terminal. Rats.

I also found a 10,000uf 50vac cap for the primary side. It was the only one they had otherwise I would have taken two in parallel to achieve the maximum of what Erfinder recommended.

Trying these caps one by one and other values permitted me to see the relay function change from;

A - immediate very fast pulsing - 400 to 100 (shitty or no voltage rise)
B - very slow pulsing for about 10 seconds and then gradual increase of pulse to very fast, (not bad voltage rise)
C - steady medium fast pulsing, slow enough for the common to hit the N/O terminal. (best voltage rise) 25

I think I will have to make a small 47uf capacitor selector bank cause I may need to change the cap at varying loads.

Also, putting a load on the primary output side does change the relay pulsing speed slightly at A and B but no effect on C. You can sense how the transformers is working with the different caps and relay reaction.

The requirement of a 240 to 12 vac transformers is not crazy either. I imagine I would be getting more amps with that one compared to my 240 - 24 vac transformer. I looked again today for such a transformer but did not find any. I checked for over 30 minutes looking at all types. Most transformers of the required 8 amps are big but they also have multiple secondaries, which would be a waste to have to energize that much mass and then only draw back out the 12 volts. So I will have to find one somewhere else.

OK, I found a toroidal transformer here - model 182P12
http://www.hammondmfg.com/182.htm
Plus they have regular transformers so  will be ordering it soon.

From what I can tell of the way it works, using the true Tesla ozone patent mode shown above, Tesla did not putz around. His motor was probably turning at high rpm since his on/off was via a 100% disengaged rotary contact. He just kept spiking the primary and loading that secondary and the secondary popped ozone producing arks. Get to the point, do it, et voila.

I realize now that doing this with one relay is not fast enough to produce juice fast enough, so here comes the second relay that will do the sparky when the first relay is not. Alternating the spark will double the virtual rpm. Hey I'm even practicing for my VAR.

The craziest thing I have seen is that my battery, a 12vdc 7amp (my 4 amp was already dead so I'm charging it), has stayed at 12.80 - 12.90 volts. That's the encouraging side since I know the amount of time I used it to do testing should have dropped the battery down at least .5 - .8 vdc.

There are so many f&**&n possibilities with this thing and the learning curve is so profound that I will stick with this project realizing that in the span of many months, after playing with it for the 100th time, I will have learned more then I know now. Yo.

If I needed just one "hint" from Erfinder, I would ask how many of the relay poles are used in the system, since adding just one could send testing in a really wide range of directions. But I guess that's the point. Hint, Hint.

So, who else is trying this?

am1ll3r

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 50
Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2008, 04:06:09 PM »
Quote
So, who else is trying this?

I'm gathering parts...but my work and family take up most of my time at the moment
Keep up the good work

Grumpy

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 2247
Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2008, 05:18:41 PM »
the 47 uF is the ozone plates

the 10,000 uF is the large condenser shown in the patent

The relays that Erfinder used are DPDT - two sets of contact - he probably has then alternately switching on back and forth - toggling - like a multivibrator.  Like the energy is "compressed" and "expanded" back and forth as it moves through the system - very interesting.

wattsup

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2606
Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2008, 07:33:32 PM »
@Grumpy

Smart observation. This means I could be using the wrong cap in the wrong place. I'll test this. Hey if you have any brainiac ideas on how to set-up the circuit, I would appreciate any help here. I just ordered a 240-12v 10 amp toroidal transformer (pricey). Supposedly, such transformers will not create any static discharge that I now see on my TV screen when pulsing this regular transformer.

Actually, I remember in Erfinders' first thread, I had posted a test I did by manually spiking a battery with the primary of a transformer and seeing voltages rise in the 800 volts range. Maybe I should wear some gloves. lol

@Grumpy

Could you please look at this post by Erfinder on this thread and see if your recommendation above is in conflict with what he is showing.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3972.msg73167.html#msg73167

Grumpy

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 2247
Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2008, 08:27:58 PM »
That's what I get for just looking at the drawing and not reading the text.

You will get static discharge from the arcing of the relay contacts unless Erfinder uses the diode to supress the arcs.

So, loop those relays together to alternate back and forth automatically - like two "buzzers" and they can be loud.

See attached:

EDIT: as for the "compression" - "decompression" - I think this is the way that it must work - like nature.

wattsup - Haven;t look at that link yet

armagdn03

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 441
Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2008, 12:21:39 AM »
Now,

Do those caps work well because they are some magic number that will work for everybody?

Now if you really want to save on a little money, buy an inductance meter instead of tons of caps. Then find out exactly which cap you should buy.

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1317
Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2008, 05:14:37 AM »
Here is a very good website to understand why Tesla built his circuits the way he did