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### Author Topic: The Tesla Project  (Read 241074 times)

#### Charlie_V

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 362
##### Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #90 on: February 18, 2008, 06:17:12 PM »
@ wattsup,

Lets assume we have a simple primary circuit with a capacitor thats 0.1F and an inductor that is 1ÃŽÂ¼H.  We charge the capacitor up separately, disconnect the power supply, and then discharge the capacitor into the inductor.  When the capacitor discharges into the inductor, it will electrically ring, similar to how a bell mechanically rings.  We want to calculate the period of the oscillation in seconds:

T = (2Ãâ‚¬/10?)*(L*C)^0.5
T = (6.283/1000)*(0.000001*0.1)^0.5
T = (0.006283)*(1x10^-7)^0.5
T = (0.006283)*(3.1623x10^-4)
T = 1.98692x10^-6 (sec)
frequency (f) = 1/T
f = 503.3kHz

The ideal secondary circuit would then be an inductor with 0.1H inductance and a ball on top with a capacitance of 1ÃŽÂ¼F (with respect to ground).  The length of the wire in the secondary inductor should be a quarter wavelength of the oscillation frequency.

wavelength (ÃŽÂ») = 300,000,000/(4*f)
ÃŽÂ» = 300,000,000[m/s]/(4*503,300[Hz])
ÃŽÂ» = 149m or 489ft

This length assumes your secondary coil has no distributed capacitance.  Unfortunately it will, so the length of the wire will need to be slightly shorter.  According to Tesla, the more distributed capacitance, the shorter time the circuit will ring.  Reduction of the distributed capacitance can be accomplished by the coil's geometry.

As a side note, its very interesting that this is the exact opposite of what you do to make a modern antenna.  If you look at the Tesla primary circuit, the characteristic impedance will be (L/C)^0.5 = (1ÃŽÂ¼H/0.1F)^0.5 =  0.003ÃŽÂ©, where as the secondary's characteristic impedance is (0.1F/1ÃŽÂ¼H)^0.5 = 316ÃŽÂ©.  They are greatly different.  This means that the energy will be reflected back to the source.  If you wanted to turn Tesla's magnifier into a modern day antenna, you would make the primary circuit's characteristic impedance be as close as possible to 316ÃŽÂ©.  Then, energy wouldn't return, instead it would radiate away like in modern day radio transmitters.  So, Tesla's magnifier is really like a single edged knife, one dull side and one sharp side.  Unfortunately, modern radio chose to use the dull side.

#### Grumpy

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 2247
##### Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #91 on: February 18, 2008, 07:28:40 PM »
The "mass matched" primary/secondary may have been for "efficient excitation" of the secondary by the primary.  I have searched for a long time to explain why Tesla stated this.  Eric Dollard modified this from matched mass to matched surface area in his work and states that with impulses, the skin effect is "total" - implying that the surface area is what matters.  I am building a MT now and I did match the mass of the primary/secondaries (it double ended) - just in case.  (surface area is proportional with each secondary 4 times the primary).

Tesla magnifier is not a resonant-coupled system, per se.  It does not use resonant rise like Tesla's two-coil transformer.  In the magnifier, the "extra coil" is an independent system that is excited by the primary/secondary.  I use the term "independent" loosely since the coils are related and tuned.  there are many many ways to make them and so long as they are balanced, people get fabulous results.  Richard Hull worked a great deal with several different arrangements and used rather large inductance values for primary and secondary and got monstrous sparks out of the extra coil.  Hull's approach is very different than that of Eric Dollard.  Dollard recommdends a single strap primary, and secondary or large surface area with maximum self-capacitance, and then the extra coil is wound for max self-inductance and min self-capacitance.  Hull did not tune for resonance or even wavelength at all, where as Dollard tuned for 1/2 primary (times an even integer and harmonic of secondary), 1/4 secondary, and 1/4 extra coil while calculating propagation rates which far exceded light in the extra coil.  Dollard connected all three coils directly.  Hull coupled the primary and secondary and would detroy them when they shorted together.  Tesla mentions when expalining his disruptive discharge coil that the primary can be connected to the secondary to prevent arcing between them - nice tip.

Hull got monstrous sparks which was all he was after.  Dollard got much more interesting effects such as a conductive field extending from the top load of the extra coil that was not "ionic" in nature (he doesn't say what it was), "explosive phenomena" when driving the system above resonance, superliminal velocities (phase not group velocity), and other effects that Tesla  mentions regarding radiant energy.  This is what prompted me to follow Dollard rather than Hull's work.

#### Charlie_V

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 362
##### Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #92 on: February 18, 2008, 08:45:01 PM »
@Grumpy

Quote
where as Dollard tuned for 1/2 primary (times an even integer and harmonic of secondary), 1/4 secondary, and 1/4 extra coil while calculating propagation rates which far exceeded light in the extra coil.

Can you explain this a little more in detail?  What do you mean tuned for 1/2 primary?

The way you've described Dollard's primary and secondary is the way Tesla describes it.  The secondary in his magnifier is only to transform things to a higher voltage, the same way a conventional transformer works, with turn ratios.  The extra coil is the free oscillator - developing a resonant rise, just as you've described, low distributed capacitance and high inductance.  This is still at the heart a coupled set of oscillators with mismatched impedances.  The thing I don't quite grasp is what does the standing wave look like with a quarter wave secondary AND extra coil.  This means the secondary circuit is a half wavelength.  So where will the voltage nodes and anti-nodes be?  For what I want to do this is critical.  This is the best I can imagine it, what do you think Grumpy?

Added After Posting - if the way I've drawn it is the way the standing wave develops on the secondary side, then this would explain why you want to connect the primary to the secondary, since its a good bet that the secondary "ground" terminal (which doesn't necessarily have to be connected to ground) will be at a much higher voltage than the primary.  Connecting them will put the primary at the same voltage level as that terminal.

#### Grumpy

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 2247
##### Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #93 on: February 18, 2008, 09:56:28 PM »
The primary is directly coupled - it would be at the bottom of you diagram.  The primary is 180 deg, the secondary is 90 deg, and the extra coil/lead is 90 deg = 360 degrees.

You need a half-wave in the primary.  Tesla mentions an equation: wavelength/2 = Kn (where K is any whole integer and "n" is a harmonic convenient for the size of the unit).  It works out that the primary length is 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, etc. of the length of the secondary depending on the harmonic selected.  This puts the nodes of the wave at the ends of the primary.  This means the nodes of the system are at the ends.  However, Dollard put a question mark for the phase effect of the top load.

Dollards explanation of the operation is brief and to the point - basically an energy field is collapsed and the shock wave moves through the system like something out of a horror movie.  Dollard also explains that the third coil can be tuned to move the max voltage point out of the coil and into the line or top load.  It is the lengths of the wires that is important along with several other things.  Amazingly Hull got excellent results just by tuning the coils with various tap points.  Rather than a transmission line, the magnifier is more like a special wave guide.

Tesla stated in an interview with his attorneys that the magnifier method was much more effective and easier than the resonant rise method and that turn ration did not even give an approximate indication of the rise of voltage developed in a few turns of the secondary.

Tesla went to great lengths in Colorado to get rid of the self-capacitance in the extra coil - saying it killed the effects.

It's my understanding that the top load of the magnifier is actually a "virtual ground".  Also, many think that there is no current in the output of the magnifier - Tesla stated he could easily pull 100's amperes off the terminal.  He also could diintegrate aluminum foil inside the extra coil - stating it was like a crack of thunder and the foil was vaporized.

Wonderful stuff.

EDIT:
Dollard specifically mentions that a "strong travelling wave is formed" coming out of the primary and he considers the secondary and the extra coil as 1/4 wave transmission lines.  In a travelling wave, the voltage and current are "in-phase" so it is "real energy" not "reactive energy".

#### Charlie_V

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 362
##### Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #94 on: February 19, 2008, 12:05:44 AM »
Coupling the secondary directly to the primary is what Tesla does to tune the extra coils, but in the Colorado notes he shows it the way I've drawn, disconnected.  Tesla also states in the Colorado spring notes that the length of the primary doesn't matter.  He used a 1/2 wavelength primary vs one that wasn't matched to the wavelength and he said he didn't get much of a difference.

I'll look for that equation with the Kn, I remember it but I thought it was with reference to the secondary, not the primary.  I know for fact he states that the length of the primary doesn't matter.  However, he does seem to change what he's doing throughout the notes so maybe I over looked that.  I'll go back and see.  I think this is going to be one of the things I just experiment with and see what happens.

Originally, I thought the ground connection of the secondary was a voltage node.  In his notes he draws it as an anti-node (maximum point).  In the interview to his attorney he also says that you can connect the primary to the secondary, but it doesn't really matter.  He doesn't ever seem to make up his mind.

Grumpy, is there free literature on Dollard and Hull and what they did?

#### Grumpy

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 2247
##### Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #95 on: February 19, 2008, 01:36:17 AM »
If you are building a magnifier, do a google search for posts made by "Richard Hull" and "Richard Quick" - they (and the Virginia group they are part of) are the "magnifier kings" of the 90's and after.

Tesla used many many arrangements for various reasons in Colorado.  I have his notes too.  He was discovering, experimenting, and building.  He stated in an interview much later that the current system was different from the magnifier patent.

Eric Dollard's book are available as a 5-book set for like 50 bucks.  He takes a different approach than anyone else I have seen or heard of.  similar to some but still rather unique.  He states that he varified everything by experimentation.  He aslo developes his theory of electricity to a large degree in his books.   There is very little available from Dollard that is outside of these 5 books.  Couple of videos floating around and a handful of files, but that is it.  Again, do a search.

It all depends what you want from the system - then build accordingly.   I don't want long sparks - I want the freaky stuff.

#### armagdn03

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 441
##### Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #96 on: February 19, 2008, 05:09:51 AM »
YAY! Grumpy hit 1000 posts!

#### Localjoe

• Hero Member
• Posts: 812
##### Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #97 on: February 19, 2008, 05:32:22 AM »
Removed
« Last Edit: February 19, 2008, 06:07:05 PM by Localjoe »

#### armagdn03

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 441
##### Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #98 on: February 19, 2008, 06:55:46 AM »
:'(
« Last Edit: February 19, 2008, 04:04:46 PM by armagdn03 »

#### wattsup

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2606
##### Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #99 on: February 20, 2008, 02:34:57 PM »
@Charlie_V

Thanks for the calculations. I will keep this on hand.

@Grumpy

Good posts also. Both you and @CV have provided some eye-openers.

@all

Before embarking on the second relay, I decided to send the choke (secondary of my first toroid) into the secondary side of my second toroid (both identical). Output on the primary side of the second toroid is 127 vdc. The wire on the relay started to smoke, but not the relay itself. Played around with the cap bank again and stabilized it so less hard on the relay and wires and it still makes in the range of 111-127 vdc.

Now how do I use the second relay...

More fun to come.

#### Grumpy

• TPU-Elite
• Hero Member
• Posts: 2247
##### Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #100 on: February 20, 2008, 03:52:30 PM »
The two relays toggle back and forth - like a multivibrator.  Erfinder confirmed this.  I posted a schematic of this earlier in this thread.

#### am1ll3r

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 60
##### Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #101 on: February 20, 2008, 04:28:06 PM »
@ All

Tip No. 1

The first relay has two functions; it is the circuit controller, and the circuit of high self induction.  The latter however, is not large enough for the purpose of charging the capacitor of the local circuit, an additional choking coil is required.

Quote:
The circuit including the motor is of relatively high self-induction, and this property is imparted to it by the coils of the motor, or when these are not sufficient, by the addition of suitable choking-coils...."
End Quote.

This is where the (toroid) transformer comes in.  The secondary of the transformer serves as the choking coil.  This transformer was selected specifically because of the current carrying capability its secondary winding, and its low resistance (mine measures 21.5 ohm).  This coil is a perfect addition to the relay.  Because the current is moving through the motor (resistance of mine measures 141 ohms) of the relay before it enters the choke (secondary) coil, current draw will fluctuates between 0.085 - 0.1 amps.  (Low current draw due to the high resistance of the relay motor coil.) The primary of this transformer is not used.

It should now be understood that an additional transformer is required, since the first transformer is used not as a transformer proper but as a choking coil.  It is recommended that the primary of the second transformer have a resistance of 21.5 to 24 ohm, this sets current draw at 0.5 amps, it can be seen in the patent (568,177 Apparatus for Producing Ozone) that the primary is connected directly with the source via the circuit controller H.  For this reason the selected relays are DPDT.  Half of the relay connections are configured so that the relay periodically interrupts the current supplying its own motor, and series connected choking coil, and the remaining connections are dedicated to connecting and disconnecting the primary of the second transformer with the source.

The second relay functions to short circuit the capacitor that the working circuit is charging once it has reached a certain level.  I would like to add that the chosen capacitor (10,000uf) can and will weld the contacts of the relay together, therefore it would be wise to select a smaller capacity capacitor, mind you, the contacts will be attacked regardless of the capacity chosen.  There are remedies but it is for you to find them.

The relays do not operate at the same frequency; the second relay operates at a frequency which is much lower frequency than the first relay for obvious reasons.

Have Fun?.

Regards

Humm...
The second relay functions to short circuit the capacitor that the working circuit is charging once it has reached a certain level.

I'm wondering myself how this is done.
I'm assuming in the working circuit we have a cap a HV diode and the relay...

Any thoughts on this ?

#### am1ll3r

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 60
##### Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #102 on: February 20, 2008, 05:32:54 PM »
Humm..
Looking into patent <a href="http://www.google.com/patents?id=66VeAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&dq=462,418&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=0_1#PPP1,M1"> # 462,418 Method of and Apparatus for Electrical Conversion and Distribution</a>

After all we want to convert the working circuit into something we can use.

#### allcanadian

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1317
##### Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #103 on: February 20, 2008, 10:18:59 PM »

Doh---double post
« Last Edit: February 20, 2008, 11:41:14 PM by allcanadian »

#### allcanadian

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1317
##### Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #104 on: February 20, 2008, 10:19:21 PM »
Now that we have managed to charge a capacitor through Teslas "method of conversion", we should also understand what we can do with a charged capacitor. We have been taught that "static" charges and inductive discharge currents have no power but this is very far from the truth, what we have not understood is how to effectively use these currents. Here is a very good site which explains what "static" electricity is ---- it is high voltage electricity.
http://www.amasci.com/emotor/stmiscon.html#eleven

One easy experiment which we can do with erfinders circuit is to connect a 12v lightbulb across the primary coil (low self-inductance)without the secondary in place, you will see nothing happens, is there is no power in the inductive discharge?
Now connect the lightbulb across the primary circuit capacitor and we will see the 12v from the battery will light the bulb dimly---- but every time the high self-inductance discharges the bulb will get super bright, so much it will destroy the bulbs filament in a few cycles. So here we could say the inductive discharge has power but only after being discharged into a capacitor. If we put a diode inbetween the high self-inductance and low self-inductance next to the low self-inductance we will also measure the full inductive discharge voltage across the diode and your capacitor will remain charged but will not oscillate as it is trapped in the capacitor, I am running about 300v on my caps. A 12v lightbulb placed across the diode will also light as the capacitor will discharge through it back to the high self-inductance.
Here is a neat circuit which uses a charged capacitor to its advantage-----
http://www.rexresearch.com/mckie/mckie.htm
In figure 2A, tank-2, if you follow the "current flow discharge path" we will see a charged capacitor(C-2) discharges through a load (low self-inductance) and a high self-inductance(L-2). In Figure 2B, tank-2, the "current flow discharge path", we see the current is allowed to continue on its course once the capacitor has been switched out of the circuit, current in load and L-2 is allowed to flow until current flow has ceased. Notice the polarity of L-2 has reversed in 2B versus 2A. In Figure 2C, tank-2, the high self-inductance L-2 reverses its current flow and recharges capacitor C-2 ---- the source of the initial current. A path is also allowed for the inductive discharge from the load to be recovered in the feedback controller. We could say the only energy supplied to the circuit is to top up the capacitors but the circulating current is very large. I wonder what the best way would be to charge these capacitors? I would think Tesla's "method of conversion" would do this rather well.
Here is a simplified version of one tank circuit.----
The operation is as follows:
1 and 3 on
2 and 3 on
4 on
repeat---
P.S.-- I should mention I do not use switches or relays for contacts 1-4, I use a circular commutator(circuit disrupter) made from a copper clad circuit board attached to the shaft of my 120v motor ---- L-2.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2008, 07:10:18 PM by allcanadian »