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Author Topic: The Tesla Project  (Read 180373 times)

Offline wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #60 on: February 12, 2008, 02:50:13 PM »
@AC

I was thinking the exact same thing of discharging the cap into the primary, but here is the problem. I can't make the relay click all the way to the other normally open terminal. The relay switching is so fast that the commom reed does not have enough time to get to the N/O side. However short the distance is. Since the positive or the negative is going through the N/C terminal before it goes to the relay coil. So I only have the N/C terminal to work with, and even then, it seems the open is so close to the points that there is sparks still between the points. So it is difficult to see if I am actually getting a 100% on and off condition like Tesla gets with his 100% on/off rotary design.

Unless I use any other ideas to make this relay click to both sides, I'm puzzled. I know that if I can get this to really switch, it will produce much more power. hehe.

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #60 on: February 12, 2008, 02:50:13 PM »

Offline Grumpy

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #61 on: February 12, 2008, 04:58:32 PM »
The NC contact is breaking open too - this is also a switch.

Offline armagdn03

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #62 on: February 12, 2008, 05:12:54 PM »
Um.......

I could be wrong (definitely would not be the first time) but I think there was a misunderstanding in the two posts before Grumpy.

You don't want the reed of the switch to touch the other normally open terminal. This just wont happen. You can be assured you are getting a full on and off, simply if you have the thing oscillating. Think through the operation, I get the feeling things are being thrown together without thought as to how they operate together.

In the solenoid, the reed begins in contact with one terminal, this causes the electromagnet to fire, pulling it away. if there was not "off" it would never return to make contact and there would be a sustained arc. But it does return, meaning power was cut to the magnet at some point. This may not be as fast an "On" "Off" as we would like, but it is one none the less.

What Erfinder is saying, is that a correctly placed condenser will affect the operation to some degree...............how? try a small condenser, then a big one, note the frequency buzz you hear from the condenser with different ones.

Just a thought. this isnt my challange, lol.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #62 on: February 12, 2008, 05:12:54 PM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #63 on: February 12, 2008, 05:49:59 PM »
@all

Thanks guys for your input.

"First comprehend the oscillator, then build it". This gave me a flash on something I never tried.

With the system as is now, I added an extra capacitor across the coil of the relay and bingo, it works. I put my scope A on one of the commons and another on the its N/O terminal and now I get complete travel from N/C to N/O. YES SIR. Now all I have to do is keep this capacitor there and work the other capacitor out of the design cause that would make two caps on the primary side which is one too many for the EC. This changes the whole dynamics of this. More fun to come.

Lastly, I was always trying to keep the initial Tesla patent design intact but realize now that we cannot keep it this way since the relay requires that extra control. But in general, the design will follow the spirit of the Tesla patent. Plus yesterday, the arching on the relay contacts was producing some ozone. How good is that. lol

Offline am1ll3r

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #64 on: February 13, 2008, 06:11:47 AM »
Hello again... :D
Here is a video and schematic of what I have so far...
Using only the parts Erfinder suggested but not the same specs.(using what I have available)
Battery 12 V (Power Wheels) lol
12 v 10 A DPDT relay
Transformer using the secondary as a choking coil.(from a  UPS system) unknown specs
Transformer Primary 120 V Secondary 12 V (similar to this http://www.nextag.com/AC-to-12V-DC-530830936/prices-html )
47 uF 35V Cap
560 uF 200V Cap
HV Diode

I don't have the relay working the the "working" circuit yet...(bought one but its bad and need to take it back)

I don't know if is is of any significance but the cap in my working circuit will charge up to about 50 V in about 10 seconds. I honestly don't know it that means anything as I do not have any sort of an electrical background. I can say I feel this circuit is completely un tuned... by that I mean my parts are not harmonically balanced. I think cap and primary coil need to be Resonance with X frequency and then the LC circuit needes to be pulsed at the same X frequency... I'm sure there is more as there are 3 parts to this circuit. The circuit controller, the LC circuit, and the working circuit. all of these need to be balanced but I'm not sure of the proper way to do it yet.

Again I really am green when it comes to EE but maybe as erfinder has said  "forget mainstream" ...it may be an advantage because I was never thought how things are suppose to work... I have an open mind... ;D

Well its late and I have work in the AM...
Here is the video link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbcB0szyx-Q
and the schematic...





   

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #64 on: February 13, 2008, 06:11:47 AM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #65 on: February 13, 2008, 07:30:20 AM »
@am1ll3r

Great job indeed and I am happy to see someone else trying this. You are on your way and it's fun. It's just crazy. My first trials and many after gave those results but with a little higher voltage, but that is without a load. As soon as I would put a small 12vdc light on the working circuit, the voltage would drop to around 1.5 - 2.5 vdc. I tried with many choke types and caps, switched transformers, etc., etc., but the results with a load were always in that range.

@all

Now that I "think" my cap is in the "right place", it is true you can build around it and I am putting up a circuit diagram of my current EC Trial #2 so it can be recorded here as a progression. I'm only using one relay on the primary side, and of this, I'm now only using one side but both N/O and N/C terminals.

I realized that my caps could be bigger since the uf is what is important here, so I plugged my large capacitor bank that I usually use for RVing a 460 volts motor. Started switching caps in and out while checking the secondary voltage starting to increase even with the load. Once I got the best match, I am producing 14.3 volts range with the load. So I decided to take out my biggest capacitor on hand which is a massive (see photo lol) 88uf 1200 volts. The voltage went up to 16.8 volts and holding.

My relay is purring like a nice running motor. Not to fast, not too slow. No I have not done any amperage tests, etc., as at this point this is not my main concern. I can say this is so much fun.

I still have to integrate the other half of this relay, plus another relay on the secondary side.

Sorry if the photo is a miss mash of wires. If anyone else is trying this, the values are not important. Just stay under the 100uf on the primary side because it is true, the relay will take a beating. I tried.

This is so f*&?in great. Now I can pulse my relay at different speeds just by changing the capacitor value. I tried a 0.5uf 1200 volts cap and you should here the relay whizzing along, but no power production in this set-up. But still, this will open a whole new realm of testing for this non EEer. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I can now really pulse into my TPU, ECD and every thing that is pulsable and finally check mag fields in real time.

@EM or @Plengo

If you have any time, try taking this diagram and adapt it in a mini-TPU setup as I am very curious to see if there is any potential.

Offline armagdn03

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #66 on: February 13, 2008, 03:44:32 PM »
A while back I whipped one of these together just to show effect...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9g2AGs9_JU&feature=related

Same principles, home made solenoid relay (decently fast as you can see) but what I wanted to point out was the size of the capacitor on it, while optimum will be different for every setup, mine here is only a 500 volt 5pf ceramic disk one that I point to about 7 seconds in (but dont mention it in the video) turns out this was not optimal, but still shows that you dont need huge values here. With this condenser, and the primary of the transformer, my output arcs were oscillating in the millions of cycles per second, After adding a bit more capacitance later, I got sparks up to 1 inch.

Also read carefully patent 462,418 http://www.rastko.org.yu/cms/files/books/46c5badf76cd6.pdf
notice what changing condenser size does to the strength of current. Perhaps a giant cap on the output is not best, perhaps it is,
but you should understand what changing the size does.

Keep up the good work guys!!!!

One more thing. I tend to talk to a  few people over instant messenger and I noticed something interesting, People tend to find an interesting site, speculate over it, and leave it at that. Why not take a more proactive stance and contact the creator of the site! Or if you see someone who might be good to share info with send them a personal message! The point is, dont be shy my friends, we are in this together, contact each other, talk to each other, pick the brains of people who know more than you, (you only know something when you realize you know nothing) but all in all, you guys are great, thanks for the smile. ;D

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #66 on: February 13, 2008, 03:44:32 PM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #67 on: February 15, 2008, 02:47:39 PM »
I changed my smaller relay for my original one and my largest cap was not enough for peak performance at this stage so I put my large capacitor bank back on the system to do some other fine tuning. Here's a picture of the bank. I still have one set of reeds available for connecting and have tried some locations and the results are mainly higher sparks, sometimes green sparks, sometimes blue sparks, sometimes ozone smell. I think I better get a few more relays as spares cause these will not last the whole testing phase. I also tried some feeding back the secondary into the primary side with some freaky results. Can't wait to really get to that point.

Offline am1ll3r

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #68 on: February 15, 2008, 03:35:33 PM »
WOW ;D  nice looking cap bank. I haven't had a chance to do any further testing but I do have some question that I will be posting soon.


Cheers
am1ll3r

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #68 on: February 15, 2008, 03:35:33 PM »
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Offline allcanadian

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #69 on: February 15, 2008, 05:30:24 PM »
I don't want to confuse the issue too much but here is something to consider, the energy flow in an inductor never reverses it only charges polarity. As well using "electron flow" notation we start to see that the electrons on the negative (-) terminal is the initial "cause" for any flow in a circuit. The positive terminal is not a source of anything, it is an absence of electrons which produces a potential difference between the (+) and (-) terminals. In the diagram attached we see the electron flow and the "conventional flow" ie.  "current" would flow in the opposite direction to this electron flow but it should be remembered the current is not "cause" it is an effect. What happens when there is no current flow ? An area of compressed electrons or tension is the cause, could we charge a capacitor with electrons with no current flow?
Many of you may have noticed a bit of a paradox in your circuits, if you place a diode between the high self-inductance and circuit controller  the diode will not work to keep current flow limited to the primary and capacitance circuit because the infernal voltage keeps changing polarity, it acts "exactly" as a fluid would ---- an electrical fluid if you use "electron" flow.
Very interesting  :)
Even more interesting is the fact that when we speak of electrostatic induction, electric fields and charged bodies we are refering to charged bodies with a preponderance of electrons relative to another body with a lack of electrons(a potential difference) ---- there is no conventional current to be found. The conventional current usually appears when a charged body is discharged to ground  ;) ----- or to a body of a lesser charge.

Offline Localjoe

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #70 on: February 15, 2008, 07:34:40 PM »
@Armagdon03 , Allcanadian , or anyone else

In my earth battery thread  i was building different homeade electromagnetic relays in search of a good one for the cell and i came across a wierd mod taht allowed me to step up 3 v to 60 in under two seconds bateries dotn get hot either i would really appreciate it if any of you had any idea why this happens in this circuit.. i didnt think a step up transformer could be built this way. Gotta love crazy ideas.  http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3500.msg76964.html#msg76964  That post explains it and the post below the link has the full picture.  Reason im bringning this up here is because it seemed like if the speed of the relay was fast enough to swing the cap up say at least once a second thats a hell of a burst waiting in a photoflash cap 200v 330 mfd to be sent into a primary coil of a tesla transformer.
                                                                     Thanks
                                                                         Joe

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #70 on: February 15, 2008, 07:34:40 PM »
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Offline armagdn03

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #71 on: February 16, 2008, 03:19:20 AM »
What you have stumbled on is one of the uses of coils of high self induction, and a property of induction itself. A charged condenser will collapse when power is disconnected, to this end the discharge from the coil will overcome resistance, and does so through an increase in potential. In fact in at least one of Teslas patents Tesla states that if the voltage of the source is not high enough, the properties of a choking coil may be taken advantage of. Wish i could name the patent off the top of my head, guess I better read them more ;)

Offline Localjoe

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #72 on: February 16, 2008, 03:48:52 AM »
@armagdn03

Thanks for the reply, im familiar with what your talking about but the cap never discharges into the circuit. I think This cap arrangement with the diode between the spring arm and the inductor somehow accepts the collapse on its way back from the spring arm and filters some of it through the diode into the cap.The cap and the relay circuit have a common ground/ - .  Two things which occured to me also the swing up was rather dramatic and it was Dependant on speed of the relay firing. the effect tapered just over 60 v and seemed to keep going but much more slowley.. then i realized the PIV rating on my diode was 75 v so im wondering if my "valve" so to speak is limiting the ammt of the back spike going into the cap .. the cap voltage is higher so i know thats not a limiting factor.. other senario is i haven't achieved a fast enough mechanical speed to get larger spike.  Thanks again for the quick answer  ;D Im going to go back through my patents as well ..

                                                                                                                                   Joe
                                                                                                     
PS- Scan Soft pdf pro is sweet program that lets you take normal pdf's and save them to search able pdf format. That  makes it so you can do word searches  ;D  I did this to the pdf I found that had all of teslas patents in it that way we can see each reference in each patent . helps find the pieces to the puzzle easier if you need pm me an ftp and i will be glad to upload it to you or skype it   

Offline armagdn03

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #73 on: February 16, 2008, 04:31:18 AM »
The best advice I can give any person pondering the mysteries of...............whatever, would be,     Understand the physical aspects (physics, kinematics, etc.) of the components and interaction with other components.

A complete understanding of interactions, physical properties, etc, will awnser all of your questions, Why ask questions, when the most qualified person to ask is yourself?

If you cannot explain in full detail the operations of a condenser, then perhaps you have some thinking to do. I cannot tell you how many nights I have spent thinking of such things, imagining, working things out in my head till I am satisfied, mental experimentation is key! to be able to build without question is an amazing feeling, no experimentation, just KNOWING. What if you could just build your OU machine with confidence without any questions?

Offline am1ll3r

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #74 on: February 16, 2008, 04:58:12 AM »
 ;D ;D

Quote
mental experimentation is key!

sounds very familiar  :D

quote from a Tesla Bio...
Quote
The moment one constructs a device to carry into practice a crude idea, he finds
himself unavoidably engrossed with the details of the apparatus. As he goes on
improving and reconstructing, his force of concentration diminishes and he loses
sight of the great underlying principle. Results may be obtained, but always at
the sacrifice of quality. My method is different. I do not rush into actual
work. When I get an idea, I start at once building it up in my imagination. I
change the construction, make improvements and operate the device in my mind. It
is absolutely immaterial to me whether I run my turbine in thought or test it in
my shop. I even note if it is out of balance. There is no difference whatever;
the results are the same. In this way I am able to rapidly develop and perfect a
conception without touching anything. When I have gone so far as to embody in
the invention every possible improvement I can think of and see no fault
anywhere, I put into concrete form this final product of my brain. Invariably my
device works as I conceived that it should, and the experiment comes out exactly
as I planned it. In twenty years there has not been a single exception. Why
should it be otherwise? Engineering, electrical and mechanical, is positive in
results. There is scarcely a subject that cannot be examined beforehand, from
the available theoretical and practical data. The carrying out into practice of
a crude idea as is being generally done, is, I hold, nothing but a waste of
energy, money, and time.

 

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